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Esroc posted:And don't even get me started on Super Saiyan Bardock. You do know Super Saiyan Bardock was from a Cardgame tie-in, right? It's about as "canon" as Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta or Broly. He got that manga special, which then got animated, purely as advertising for Dragon Ball Heroes. It doesn't really change anything about the established canon, and at most you could see it as an Alternate Universe/Timeline thing, or even work some tie-in to Dragon Ball Online (which a Bardock was "rescued" by the main villain and mind controlled into being the Saiyan Saga final boss for players, eventually breaking free and getting caught up in the Time Patrol shenanigans).
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May 10, 2014 20:24
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StrifeHira posted:You do know Super Saiyan Bardock was from a Cardgame tie-in, right? It's about as "canon" as Super Saiyan 3 Vegeta or Broly. He got that manga special, which then got animated, purely as advertising for Dragon Ball Heroes. It doesn't really change anything about the established canon, and at most you could see it as an Alternate Universe/Timeline thing, or even work some tie-in to Dragon Ball Online (which a Bardock was "rescued" by the main villain and mind controlled into being the Saiyan Saga final boss for players, eventually breaking free and getting caught up in the Time Patrol shenanigans). Oh, I didn't know that. But the rest of my rant still stands.
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May 10, 2014 20:39
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Esroc posted:True, but it still falls in line with the concept that a Saiyan can't reach his true potential unless he gives up his selfish ways. Be it on purpose or accidentally. The entire concept hinges on the idea that Saiyans are in their own way so far as progress is concerned due to their selfish and evil nature. I get that Saiyan's are supposed to be dumb evil ruthless fuckheads but even though Goku did bump his head initially he still permanently retained his good side. It would probably make sense that Bardock himself was a bit different since Goku probably inherited his good side genetically.
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May 10, 2014 21:13
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g0lbez posted:I get that Saiyan's are supposed to be dumb evil ruthless fuckheads but even though Goku did bump his head initially he still permanently retained his good side. It would probably make sense that Bardock himself was a bit different since Goku probably inherited his good side genetically. Yeah even initially Bardock was quoted as caring for his squad. Compared to say Raditz Nappa and Vegeta where they hated on Raditz and Nappa meant nothing to Vegeta.
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May 10, 2014 23:24
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Kild posted:Yeah even initially Bardock was quoted as caring for his squad. Compared to say Raditz Nappa and Vegeta where they hated on Raditz and Nappa meant nothing to Vegeta. But Raditz is Bardock's son, too. I wonder why he was so evil in comparison? I remember reading a fan theory somewhere that the reason Raditz was so ruthless was because he was over-compensating: he knew he was weak by Saiyan standards so he tried to compensate by being all "Rah rah you're a disgrace to the Saiyans". I'm annoyed that we never saw more Raditz, since he's Goku's brother and all. But I guess that's part of the charm of Dragon Ball: it does unexpected things. It would've been easy and obvious to make Raditz the main bad guy that later forms a rivalry with Goku, or at least a recurring villain. But even so, i'd have liked to see some filler with him and Nappa in Hell.
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May 11, 2014 00:26
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To be fair, he WAS about as strong as a single Saibaman. That's going to result in relentless poo poo-talking from Nappa and Vegeta no matter what.
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May 11, 2014 01:12
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StrifeHira posted:To be fair, he WAS about as strong as a single Saibaman. Yeah, to be fair, once people realized that level of strength was an attainable thing, loving Yamcha was capable of attaining it within a year.
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May 11, 2014 01:19
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Kild posted:Yeah even initially Bardock was quoted as caring for his squad. Compared to say Raditz Nappa and Vegeta where they hated on Raditz and Nappa meant nothing to Vegeta. I feel Nappa wasn't as cold hearted as Vegeta either. He suggested resurrecting Raditz and felt remorse for Vegeta slaying the Saibaman who lost to Tien.
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May 11, 2014 01:54
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Blue Star posted:But Raditz is Bardock's son, too. I wonder why he was so evil in comparison? Goku hit his head. Being so drat weak is probably why he's such a cowardly shitheel though.
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May 11, 2014 02:37
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No one cares about Piccolo Day. The real Dragonball Holiday is Kamehameha Day, which is next month. 
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May 11, 2014 02:59
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Esroc posted:My chief complaints are Super Saiyan God, his dumping of transformations entirely (which is another one of the biggest draws of the entire show), and his retconning of established canon. SSj God was silly. Saiyans already have the Legendary Super Saiyan as their chief mythological figure that turned out to be real. But wait! They also have a second Legendary Super Saiyan that they called "God" which was conveniently never mentioned before, apes (ha!) the entire concept of the original Super Saiyan, and exists for no reason other than to be a deus ex machina to use against Beerus. A new canon version of SSj4 would have made sense. SSj God does not. And the whole "needs a handful of pure-hearted Saiyans to create and oh! look at that! We just so happen to have the exact number of Saiyans we need to create it!" was lazy as hell writing. Plus the visual design of SSj God was also ridiculously lazy. Reestablishing Goku as the Legendary Super Saiyan instead of Brolly is a good thing in my opinion and I don't blame Toriyama for doing it.
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May 11, 2014 04:05
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Snowcow posted:Reestablishing Goku as the Legendary Super Saiyan instead of Brolly is a good thing in my opinion and I don't blame Toriyama for doing it. Broly was never the LSSj. The LSSj was a separate being who presumably existed even before the appropriation of Planet Plant. Broly merely shared characteristics with the LSSj and thus gained that as a nickname. But that doesn't change the fact that the LSSj and the original SSj God share a nearly identical origin and story. In fact, I could forgive Toriyama if he linked them someday down the line and did make them the same character. That would at least plug up a few plot holes and make the SSJ God not seem so out of left field. Esroc fucked around with this message at 04:17 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 04:14
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I like ssj God being the same as legendary ssj, since that means Vegeta's ramblings to Frieza never came true, even when Goku actually went ssj. In fact, that's loving hilarious.
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May 11, 2014 04:19
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Shinjobi posted:I like ssj God being the same as legendary ssj, since that means Vegeta's ramblings to Frieza never came true, even when Goku actually went ssj. In fact, that's loving hilarious. It would be a very interesting development from a world-building standpoint. The entire Super Saiyan legend is about the SSj God but Vegeta got it all wrong and all the Super Saiyans in DBZ until Goku fought Beerus weren't really full Super Saiyans at all and merely bastardizations of it. I'd bow to Toriyama if he went this route.
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May 11, 2014 04:22
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Esroc posted:Broly was never the LSSj. The LSSj was a separate being who presumably existed even before the appropriation of Planet Plant. Broly merely shared characteristics with the LSSj and thus gained that as a nickname. In practice most people seem to consider him to be the LSSJ.
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May 11, 2014 04:30
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I think Broly's just considered some kind of insane mutant at this point.
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May 11, 2014 04:31
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Snowcow posted:In practice most people seem to consider him to be the LSSJ. Nobody who actually paid attention considers him to literally be the LSSj. Though I don't blame anyone for not paying close attention to the intricate canon of a punchman's anime for children. But I digress.
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May 11, 2014 04:50
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Didn't a lot of the legend of the Super Saiyan come from Kai, who like got a lot of stuff wrong. From what I remember when he talked about it it showed a Saiyan in monkey form going SSJ and blowing the gently caress out a planet and taking himself with it.
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May 11, 2014 09:36
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ElBrak posted:Didn't a lot of the legend of the Super Saiyan come from Kai, who like got a lot of stuff wrong. From what I remember when he talked about it it showed a Saiyan in monkey form going SSJ and blowing the gently caress out a planet and taking himself with it. Well that was anime only. Vegeta talked about it all throughout the Namek saga. Which is why DBZ Abridged pokes fun of it. Kild fucked around with this message at 19:37 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 11:02
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Kild posted:Well that was anime only. Vegeta talked about it all throughout the Saiyan saga. Which is why DBZ Abridged pokes fun of it. Think you mean Namek saga there. The first mention of a Super Saiyan is at the same time in both the original anime and the manga, its when Goku arrives on Namek. Vegeta is blown away by how much stronger Goku is than even the Ginyu force now, which prompts him to wonder if maybe Goku had become the legendary Super Saiyan. In the anime its accompanied by the great golden ape that confuses the poo poo out of people and was later referenced for GT, but that is just all filler.
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May 11, 2014 17:29
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StrifeHira posted:To be fair, he WAS about as strong as a single Saibaman. Yeah but all you have to do is almost kill him and then let him heal. Saiyans are bullshit.
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May 11, 2014 18:48
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Saiyans are bullshit.  Just Saiyan'
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May 11, 2014 18:53
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Esroc posted:Broly was never the LSSj. The LSSj was a separate being who presumably existed even before the appropriation of Planet Plant. Broly merely shared characteristics with the LSSj and thus gained that as a nickname. Broly just never existed at all. He's basically a fanfic character. SS God is Toriyama taking that concept and giving it a canon adaptation.
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May 11, 2014 19:33
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Yeah but all you have to do is almost kill him and then let him heal. I find it interesting that Zenkai is basically what humans do when they go to the Gym. You go there, lift weights, beat up your body/muscle fibers then you get stronger when they heal.
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May 11, 2014 19:36
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Caros posted:Think you mean Namek saga there. The first mention of a Super Saiyan is at the same time in both the original anime and the manga, its when Goku arrives on Namek. Vegeta is blown away by how much stronger Goku is than even the Ginyu force now, which prompts him to wonder if maybe Goku had become the legendary Super Saiyan. Yeah I typoed 
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May 11, 2014 19:38
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Talking about super saiyajin for a second, is there anyone here that was a little bummed that young Trunks and Goten essentially no sold the ssj transformation?
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May 11, 2014 19:55
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I found it hilarious how Vegeta was lamenting how something that was only in legends became so easy to do. IN his words. Naturally a super sayian bargain sale. The loving dub has some hilarious rear end lines and that was one of them.
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May 11, 2014 20:07
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Shindragon posted:The loving dub has some hilarious rear end lines and that was one of them. If I recall a Toriyama interview correctly, that's pretty much a direct translation of the actual japanese.
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May 11, 2014 20:11
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Oh? hahaha nice. Never because some of the dub lines are improv'd or written differently.
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May 11, 2014 20:13
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It was a Q&A with Toriyama where the question was "How did Vegeta learn about bargain sales? Did Bulma take him shopping? Poor sod" sort of. The answer was "he learned it from watching TV like a slob."
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May 11, 2014 20:22
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Man you got to do something while working out, and Bulma probably didn't approve of destroying the landscape in explosive hissy fits.
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May 11, 2014 20:30
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He was basically just languishing about in front of the tv immediately post-cell if you take movie 9 as canon(which it is and I will fight you if you disagree).
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May 11, 2014 20:53
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The scouter's primary use was a DVR so he could catch up on his soaps while sitting in his sphereship.
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May 11, 2014 23:41
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Mordaedil posted:It was a Q&A with Toriyama where the question was "How did Vegeta learn about bargain sales? Did Bulma take him shopping? Poor sod" sort of. So much missed potential. I would love an episode about Vegeta and Goku going to a bargain sale. I imagine Vegeta would hate it at first, but then he would try to beat Kakarot and became the best at the art of bargain! Regarding Super Saiyans the thing about legends is that they are not facts. There are variations, contradiction among versions, or are just full of BS. So I've I have no problem with the contradictions in the Super Saiyans lore.
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May 11, 2014 23:44
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Captain Quack posted:So much missed potential. Could he have become the Legendary Super Bargain Hunterjin??? Add Piccolo and we'd finally have something to challenge "learning to drive a car" as the best Dragon Ball episode
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May 12, 2014 01:32
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Barudak posted:Could he have become the Legendary Super Bargain Hunterjin??? Vegeta did hit a bargain sale in GT, but that and his mustache are about the only good parts of GT.
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May 12, 2014 02:28
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There really should have been more episodes of Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo just hanging out and doing "Normal" things. Imagine Vegeta having to file his taxes.
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May 12, 2014 10:37
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 I, Vegeta, Prince of all Saiyans, do NOT pay property taxes. All of this puny planet is mine by right.
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May 12, 2014 10:57
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You'd have to imagine that the Briefs have at least a couple accountants for personal use, what with being the brains behind the biggest company in the world.
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May 12, 2014 14:04
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Zedd posted:
Of course he doesn't pay taxes. The only money Vegeta gets is whatever Bulma gives him or he digs out of the sofa cushions.
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May 12, 2014 18:31
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