|
Shakugan posted:With near certainty she'd be the first boot of whichever tribe she ended up on. Awful in challenges, useless in camp and after this season it will be known that she can't even be trusted to act in her own self-interest. She might seem like a great goat, but there's no way any tribe keeps her in the game long enough (i.e. till merge) for her to play that role. As unpredictable as this season has been because of her, she'd be a waste of a returnee. That's why you bring her back for a season with mostly new players and only a couple of returning ones. Imagine how much more superior she'd feel to the rookies and the extra levels of smug that would bring out in her confessionals.
|
#
?
May 10, 2014 22:05
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 06:21 |
|
|
Vernacular posted:She knew she had 0 chance of beating Spence or Tasha I wonder if this is true, and I don't think Kass believed it. I might be misremembering but pre-flip she seemed pretty well liked. I think if she hadn't flipped and kept her mouth shut, she would have an acceptable social game, and she could've made some sort of play with 6-9 people left and won the jury over with strategy. And it's not like 11 was her only chance to eliminate Spencer/Tasha. Her position was actually really good for making it to the end: majority alliance, not a physical threat, not the most social, not an obvious leader of her alliance, and she could either vote out Spencer/Tasha or impress with strategy some other way.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2014 22:20
|
|
|
Kass doesn't get enough flack for giving herself a nickname. Usually that's a sign of mental illness on this show. The Dragonslayer, The Specialist, Tarzan, Troyzan. Kass is so desperate to make the Chaos Kass thing stick it's embarrassing.
|
|
#
?
May 10, 2014 22:58
|
|
|
rafington posted:I wonder if this is true, and I don't think Kass believed it. I might be misremembering but pre-flip she seemed pretty well liked. I think if she hadn't flipped and kept her mouth shut, she would have an acceptable social game, and she could've made some sort of play with 6-9 people left and won the jury over with strategy. And it's not like 11 was her only chance to eliminate Spencer/Tasha. Her position was actually really good for making it to the end: majority alliance, not a physical threat, not the most social, not an obvious leader of her alliance, and she could either vote out Spencer/Tasha or impress with strategy some other way. Lone Goat posted:When was Tony ever in a minority? Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 03:10 on May 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 10, 2014 23:48
|
|
|
Shakugan posted:It was completely without strategic merit. Even though she had 0 chance of beating Spencer or Tasha, the time to turn against them isn't at the merge. If you drop your top 3 position (having not pissed anyone off) to join a 6 person alliance where you're either at the bottom or become a goat (because you pissed so many people off by making a completely nonsensical move to the point that winning is impossible), you've made a terrible move. There is no question that Kass' flip was one of the worst "strategic plays" ever made in Survivor. The later you flip, the less people you piss off (which is obviously good for jury reasons). Kass had a fairly decent chance of just cruising to final 5. If she'd waited to flip till then she could have gotten through without pissing many people off, would have claim to a legitimately smart "big move" etc. A lot can happen between the merge and the final five. If you have the opportunity to cast two of the clear-cut threats into weaker positions and, at the same time, hitch your pony to a group full of far more beatable people, it might be good to capitalize on that chance regardless of when it pops up, or how many peoples' feelings you hurt. Saying that her play was without strategic merit and "one of the worst plays ever made in Survivor" is a massive exaggeration. If she loses votes, it'll be because of her arrogance/awful social game, not because she non-strategically wrote names down during tribal council. Also, even if Kass' rationale for her slip was rooted in ego and insecurity, it doesn't mean that there wasn't some [possibly accidental] strategic benefit to her move. That's my main point, really. I'm not rooting for Kass to win at all, but I think she gets too much poo poo here for the way she's played. rafington posted:I wonder if this is true, and I don't think Kass believed it. I might be misremembering but pre-flip she seemed pretty well liked. I think if she hadn't flipped and kept her mouth shut, she would have an acceptable social game, and she could've made some sort of play with 6-9 people left and won the jury over with strategy. And it's not like 11 was her only chance to eliminate Spencer/Tasha. Her position was actually really good for making it to the end: majority alliance, not a physical threat, not the most social, not an obvious leader of her alliance, and she could either vote out Spencer/Tasha or impress with strategy some other way. I vaguely remember a confessional where she mentioned noticing how strong Spencer and Tasha were when they played together before the merge, alluding to them as potential threats. Vernacular fucked around with this message at 00:07 on May 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 00:00
|
|
|
I seriously am baffled that some people don't think that Kass flipping wasn't one of the dumbest and most terrible moves in survivor history history. Rationalize it all you want, she literally flipped because she was mad that her tribe was butt kissing the person most liable to flip back to the other alliance and lose them the numbers. It was a loving retarded move.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 00:49
|
|
|
BGrifter posted:Kass doesn't get enough flack for giving herself a nickname. Usually that's a sign of mental illness on this show. The Dragonslayer, The Specialist, Tarzan, Troyzan. Kass is so desperate to make the Chaos Kass thing stick it's embarrassing.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 00:57
|
|
|
TheChad posted:I seriously am baffled that some people don't think that Kass flipping wasn't one of the dumbest and most terrible moves in survivor history history. I think some people are so desperate for players to make a move they'll applaud any move even if its completely terrible. Worst part is they even ended up doing the move Kass wanted them to do.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 01:18
|
|
|
DurosKlav posted:I think some people are so desperate for players to make a move they'll applaud any move even if its completely terrible. Worst part is they even ended up doing the move Kass wanted them to do. Jeff Probst is one of those people. Hatch and Rob C were talking about it on the podcast this week, Probst pushes the idea "you have to make big moves to win Survivor" (which is bullshit) so hard that you get players making terrible moves cause they think they need to if they want to have a shot at winning. Obviously you don't want to be Rick The Moustache, but good players know when to calm the gently caress down and just ride out an advantage.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 01:25
|
|
|
I don't think it's a serious contender for "worst move ever," just because there are so many terrible moves that have immediately ended a person's game. In that respect, I don't even think it's the worst move this season - Garrett attempting to prevent anyone from talking to each other on day 6 took him from a position of relative power/the only strong player on his tribe to voted out over the crazy woman who poured out all their food and is terrible at challenges, and he went home with an idol in his pocket. I've also been pretty surprised at how much of what she thought would happen as a result of her flip - she hasn't been a target at any point, she's lasted longer than people in the "core" of the alliance she joined, and she's had the ability to swing back to the people she betrayed if she thought it was a better opportunity. I think that's about as much credit as you could reasonably give it. All that being said, it was still really dumb because it absolutely zeroed out her chance of winning the game.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 01:28
|
|
|
It's probably for the best that Tash and Spencer didn't make it to the end because it was a true situation where I couldn't decide which of the two was more responsible for them being in the game still. It seems they would get a plan, and then split up and execute. It was really cool.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 02:20
|
|
|
xbilkis posted:I don't think it's a serious contender for "worst move ever," just because there are so many terrible moves that have immediately ended a person's game. In that respect, I don't even think it's the worst move this season - Garrett attempting to prevent anyone from talking to each other on day 6 took him from a position of relative power/the only strong player on his tribe to voted out over the crazy woman who poured out all their food and is terrible at challenges, and he went home with an idol in his pocket. True, but the reason she is/was in no immediate danger of being voted out is because it was such a colossally stupid move that it instantly put her in goat status. Garret was a moron, but he also wasn't sitting in a majority alliance post merge. The stakes were very different and I would say that a failed bid to control his alliance is far less stupid that petulantly throwing away a chance at a million dollars because someone else was getting too much attention.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 02:32
|
|
|
Rick posted:It's probably for the best that Tash and Spencer didn't make it to the end because it was a true situation where I couldn't decide which of the two was more responsible for them being in the game still. It seems they would get a plan, and then split up and execute. It was really cool. Not that I disagree but it was interesting that Tasha confirmed they independently came up with the idea of selling Tony on a girls alliance and never coordinated on the matter. They made a fun duo and Tasha has been badly underrated. Instead of bringing back a buffoon like Kass they should have Tasha at the top of the list for potential returning women from this season. Although I'm sure some would prefer Morgan for... other reasons.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 02:33
|
|
|
I posted in this thread back in late March that I was going to go watch all the old seasons as I'd never seen them before, aside from 1 and 2. I have now watched from Borneo to Tocantins (that's not phonetic?!) which is where I am now. I can safely say the only season that was 100% garbage so far was Thailand. Fiji is a runner-up, but it can't even touch how bad Thailand was. I can't say I'm looking forward to seasons 21-24, which you guys said were awful, but the completionist in me can't skip them. Hulu used to show screenshots of contestants in the episode selection area, but they wised up during one of the later seasons and started showing only pictures of Jeff wearing his baseball hat and blue button-up shirt. Since you guys advised me to avoid this thread until I finished, I have until now and will probably avoid the thread again after I post this. I just wanted to pop in and complain about Thailand, really. v  v
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 04:32
|
|
|
BGrifter posted:Not that I disagree but it was interesting that Tasha confirmed they independently came up with the idea of selling Tony on a girls alliance and never coordinated on the matter. They made a fun duo and Tasha has been badly underrated. Instead of bringing back a buffoon like Kass they should have Tasha at the top of the list for potential returning women from this season. Oh really? That's cool. Yeah, I absolutely have loved her game after the shaky start (and really all the brains had a shaky start) and she does deserve to come back.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 04:37
|
|
|
DaisyDanger posted:Tocantins (that's not phonetic?!) Token-cheese!
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 05:09
|
|
|
DaisyDanger posted:I posted in this thread back in late March that I was going to go watch all the old seasons as I'd never seen them before, aside from 1 and 2. I have now watched from Borneo to Tocantins (that's not phonetic?!) which is where I am now. I can safely say the only season that was 100% garbage so far was Thailand. Fiji is a runner-up, but it can't even touch how bad Thailand was. I can't say I'm looking forward to seasons 21-24, which you guys said were awful, but the completionist in me can't skip them. You should pop in, without reading anything, to give us your opinions after watching the premiere of each season, after major events, and after the finale of each season. I'm sure we can behave ourselves spoiler wise for a few pages after each of your posts.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 05:11
|
|
|
TheChad posted:I seriously am baffled that some people don't think that Kass flipping wasn't one of the dumbest and most terrible moves in survivor history history. Some actual contenders for "dumbest and most terrible move in Survivor history": -JT giving Russell his idol in HvV -Erik giving away immunity and subsequently getting voted out in Micronesia -The male tribe volunteering to go to TC in One World -The four bros in said male tribe getting smug about their 4 person minority alliance in One World -Ozzy volunteering to go to RI as a strategic move -Any time a tribe has ever thrown a challenge Kass' move isn't even in the same ballpark as these things. Anyway, my whole point was that her move, regardless of what motivated it, still resulted in the strategic benefit of the two strongest players being put in weak positions. I'm not calling it a great move by any stretch, but some of you are blowing things way out of proportion with these allegations of it being one of the worst moves in Survivor history.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 05:13
|
|
|
Especially since Occupation is busy with his Toxx thread, we should be spoiler-free for just a little bit. That said, I'm not sure if I mentioned this before, but I think that newbie guide is terrible and needs some heavy editing before it gets posted in an OP again. You're a Survivor newbie? lol here have all the spoilers.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 05:19
|
|
|
That's been brought up and was discussed in detail a little bit back, heh Here's where it starts: http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3604613&userid=0&perpage=40&pagenumber=95#post429235925 and everyone agrees with you. Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 05:46 on May 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 05:43
|
|
|
BGrifter posted:Token-cheese! This is exactly what my fiance calls it now! I had told him "Oh, goons have said Tocantins (phonetic, of course) is a great season!" and then Jeff says token-cheese and I just feel shame. I also feel shame for talking about goons outside of the internet, but eh, what can you do? I think Coach is from my neck of the woods, but I don't want to google to find out. As an aside, he is loving crazy. The Lord Bude posted:You should pop in, without reading anything, to give us your opinions after watching the premiere of each season, after major events, and after the finale of each season. I'm sure we can behave ourselves spoiler wise for a few pages after each of your posts. I've thought about keeping a file on my computer full of my thoughts as I've watched just so I could post it here when I was finally all caught up. I think I'll wait until I'm done to post all of my thoughts just because I don't want to check this thread until I'm done. One thing that I have definitely wanted to post was that I think Kathy got robbed on Marquesas and Vecepia has been the least-worthy winner in the first 18 seasons. And while on the topic of Marquesas, I think the relationship between Rodger and Elisabeth wasn't weird, but I was definitely grossed out by Pascal and Neleh. Also, in what goddamn language is Neleh pronounced that way? Also, I really thought Ozzy was cool and should've won Cook Islands, but I was so loving happy when he got voted off FvF. I wonder if he was that arrogant during CI or if his ego got massively inflated between the two. I am also horrible at picking pony/poison and I don't think I've ever correctly predicted the winner unless I already knew who won. Propaganda Machine posted:Especially since Occupation is busy with his Toxx thread, we should be spoiler-free for just a little bit. I definitely agree with this. I used to read the OP to see why goons liked certain seasons after I finished them, but then there were spoilers about stuff like people coming back for later seasons, so I stopped doing that. I understand that this show has been on since I was in high school, but for a newbie guide, it's not very good because it's absolutely full of spoilers. I did spoil a lot for myself just from googling what I thought was fairly innocuous. For example, I checked out Ethan's wikipedia because I remembered he had cancer and wanted to see how he was doing, but I not only learned that Jenna won her season, but I learned where Ethan, Lex, and Tom finished in season 8. I've since stopped googling anything about Survivor. Even on the season that is currently airing (which is a great season, in my opinion, and I'm rooting for Woo or maybe Spencer) I got to hear spoilers about Russell. It's kind of funny because just before this week's episode, I'd been thinking that in the past 18 seasons that I've seen, no one has ever referred back to a previous season, aside from the all-star style seasons. Edit to add: If I found out I was going to be on Survivor, the absolute first thing I would do is to learn how to build a fire. I would go into my back yard and sit there until I could build a fire.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 07:01
|
|
|
Vernacular posted:Some actual contenders for "dumbest and most terrible move in Survivor history": - Tyson voting himself out in HvV
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 09:56
|
|
|
Vernacular posted:Some actual contenders for "dumbest and most terrible move in Survivor history": No Kass is even dumber and worse than Erik.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 10:11
|
|
|
Brandon and J'tia's existence on this earth.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 10:11
|
|
|
- Jason being fooled by a stick in FvF
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 10:40
|
|
|
DaisyDanger posted:And while on the topic of Marquesas, I think the relationship between Rodger and Elisabeth wasn't weird, but I was definitely grossed out by Pascal and Neleh. Also, in what goddamn language is Neleh pronounced that way? In Mormon. At least she asn't a boy named Nephi or Zakariah. Oh, hey, did you like how she offered the tribe her sloppy breath mint after that reward? She totally didn't want it!  quote:Also, I really thought Ozzy was cool and should've won Cook Islands, but I was so loving happy when he got voted off FvF. I wonder if he was that arrogant during CI or if his ego got massively inflated between the two. The latter, I think. Incidentally, I don't think he should have won at all, but I understand why he got so many votes. Sure, he was a challenge beast, but he played his alliances (or lack thereof) like an absolute retard. His saving grace was the mutiny and the absolute need for Aitu to stick together. quote:Even on the season that is currently airing (which is a great season, in my opinion, and I'm rooting for Woo or maybe Spencer) I got to hear spoilers about Russell. It's kind of funny because just before this week's episode, I'd been thinking that in the past 18 seasons that I've seen, no one has ever referred back to a previous season, aside from the all-star style seasons. There was apparently a lot of referencing happening in Australia, since Survivor was such a huge cultural phenomenon at that point, but the producers put the kibosh on it right quick. Intelligent move. I think it's been getting more prevalent recently just because the last 10 or so seasons have been relying so heavily on the crutch of returning players, which is a drat shame. quote:Edit to add: If I found out I was going to be on Survivor, the absolute first thing I would do is to learn how to build a fire. I would go into my back yard and sit there until I could build a fire. This. Apparently, one of the best methods is to focus the sun through a drop of water in somebody's eyeglasses. We can thank Yau-Man for that one. I'd also learn absolutely everything possible about plant identification for the filming location, because everybody likes food. We can also thank Yau-Man for the genius idea of brewing tea to offset the horrible taste of Survivor water.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 10:57
|
|
|
BGrifter posted:Jeff Probst is one of those people. Hatch and Rob C were talking about it on the podcast this week, Probst pushes the idea "you have to make big moves to win Survivor" (which is bullshit) so hard that you get players making terrible moves cause they think they need to if they want to have a shot at winning. Obviously you don't want to be Rick The Moustache, but good players know when to calm the gently caress down and just ride out an advantage. Really good (and long!) podcast with Hatch but maybe Cesternino was like tired because he like says like like a lot. It was interesting to get the backstory on how Hatch got on the first season. And I liked his answer to Rob's question of whether he preferred returning players or all-newbie cast. After hesitating he said, "I watch every episode and then decide if I liked it or not" on its own merits, which is similar to the way I watch.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 12:02
|
|
|
Vernacular posted:Some actual contenders for "dumbest and most terrible move in Survivor history": Kass flipped out of pure spite. That alone is nothing new to Survivor. It makes her irrational but not necessarily dumb. What elevates it to pure stupidity is that her spite was founded on the worst justification i have heard in any season. How could she not understand the need to keep someone like Sarah happy so that she would stay with their tribe for one vote? It is so obvious that it makes the irrationality behind the flip even worse. Not only did she completely ruin her (and her tribemates) position in the game, but she did it for no reason. It was a move with no possible positive outcome for Kass. The only move I would call similarly bad is the all male tribe voluntarily going to TC in One World. And that move was not equally dumb across all of the tribemates, really it was particularly bad for the possible targets Leif and Bill.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 12:55
|
|
|
Zarrr posted:The only move I would call similarly bad is the all male tribe voluntarily going to TC in One World. And that move was not equally dumb across all of the tribemates, really it was particularly bad for the possible targets Leif and Bill. The men would go on to self-destruct through the whole season, leaving a F5 of all girls. They all blew their chances by giving up that immunity.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 13:26
|
|
|
Rarity posted:The men would go on to self-destruct through the whole season, leaving a F5 of all girls. They all blew their chances by giving up that immunity. Are you finished one world yet? The upwards streak begins as soon as you do.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 14:08
|
|
|
Vernacular posted:-Any time a tribe has ever thrown a challenge
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 14:16
|
|
|
Pinterest Mom posted:Nah, this is fine. Peih-Gee and Jaime throwing the challenge to get Aaron out in China was a legitimate good move. Sometimes not throwing a challenge is a bad move, like after the shuffle in Fiji where Michelle got voted out. These were only legitimate throws because of stupid twists. Not that I hate all twists, but China's kidnap and Fiji's...well, all of Fiji's twists except for the new idol, were particularly dumb.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 14:43
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:Are you finished one world yet? The upwards streak begins as soon as you do. Yeah I've made it to the merge in Phillippines. I'm pretty sure Jeff and Carter have just seriously screwed up by flipping to the bottom of a majority alliance when they coulda been top of a majority alliance.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 14:59
|
|
|
Rarity posted:Yeah I've made it to the merge in Phillippines. I'm pretty sure Jeff and Carter have just seriously screwed up by flipping to the bottom of a majority alliance when they coulda been top of a majority alliance. how satisfied were you at Colton's MediQuit in One World? Also, what do you think of the Phillipines cast? That season was so much fun after the craptitude of One World. (Although you've got my favorite season ever coming up next, can't wait to see what you think of it.)
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 15:21
|
|
|
The Lord Bude posted:how satisfied were you at Colton's MediQuit in One World? Really unsatisfied. Colton deserved a huge blindside. My favourites are Penner and Skupin, but I also like the Malcolm/Denise duo.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 15:28
|
|
|
Rarity posted:Really unsatisfied. Colton deserved a huge blindside.  We are the same!
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 15:37
|
|
|
Rarity posted:Yeah I've made it to the merge in Phillippines. I'm pretty sure Jeff and Carter have just seriously screwed up by flipping to the bottom of a majority alliance when they coulda been top of a majority alliance. I was right! I have no clue how Jeff ended up getting voted out there but it was pretty amazing and now I get to feel all smug 
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 16:29
|
|
|
Zarrr posted:Kass flipped out of pure spite. That alone is nothing new to Survivor. It makes her irrational but not necessarily dumb. What elevates it to pure stupidity is that her spite was founded on the worst justification i have heard in any season. How could she not understand the need to keep someone like Sarah happy so that she would stay with their tribe for one vote? It is so obvious that it makes the irrationality behind the flip even worse. Not only did she completely ruin her (and her tribemates) position in the game, but she did it for no reason. It was a move with no possible positive outcome for Kass. I don't like Kass and think she made a dumb, dumb move, but it wasn't the worst ever. The way to solidify your alliance is to focus on the person most likely to flip. Everybody thought this was Sarah, and it was logical to think so since she could flip back to Tony. The flipper turned out to be Kass, just no one could tell because of her constant  expression.It was a really dumb move by her, but she had her reasons and a flip (of course) isn't unprecedented. Rarity posted:The men would go on to self-destruct through the whole season, leaving a F5 of all girls. They all blew their chances by giving up that immunity. Exactly. The whole men's tribe lost the season with that one move. Without that, they make the merge up 7-5, vote Kim out at 5 (she won 4 of the last 5 challenges). WORST MOVE EVER. THANKS, COLTON. Imagine Tarzan answering the jury. Man that would have been great! "Who are you again?"
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 17:27
|
|
|
Binary Logic posted:Really good (and long!) podcast with Hatch but maybe Cesternino was like tired because he like says like like a lot. It was interesting to get the backstory on how Hatch got on the first season. And I liked his answer to Rob's question of whether he preferred returning players or all-newbie cast. After hesitating he said, "I watch every episode and then decide if I liked it or not" on its own merits, which is similar to the way I watch. He did follow it up with a comment about all newbies making the same newbie mistakes over and over being a little tiresome. I like how Hatch had a clear line about how far the strategy discussion would go because he's always got his eye on playing the game again. I'd watch him play ten more times.
|
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 19:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 28, 2024 06:21 |
|
|
I don't think I've ever seen a worse piece of strategy than Abi's 'fake having an idol' strategy e: Wait how did she win immunity I don't even what Rarity fucked around with this message at 21:21 on May 11, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 11, 2014 21:08
|
|