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Is this the Scottish branch of the Labour Party that came about to fight elections in the newly devolved parliament introduced by the Labour party?
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May 11, 2014 14:07
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mfcrocker posted:Hi LemonDrizzle we are specifically talking about Scottish Labour here who have a solid record of being lovely as hell. Scottish Labour Party wasn't said though.  Labour Party was said.
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May 11, 2014 14:09
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Fluo posted:Scottish Labour wasn't said though. How do you not read that as specifying Scottish Labour? It even says Scottish right there  E: Sweet edit to not look like a daftie
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May 11, 2014 14:11
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mfcrocker posted:How do you not read that as specifying Scottish Labour? It even says Scottish right there "Scottish Tories do exist though they're called the Labour party" was said, not "Scottish tories do exist though they're called the Scottish Labour Party". Hey man you're the one who was splitting hairs.
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May 11, 2014 14:14
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Fluo posted:"Scottish Tories do exist though they're called the Labour party" was said, not "Scottish tories do exist though they're called the Scottish Labour Party". Hey man you're the one who was splitting hairs. Given that we are looking for Scottish tories it's a bit daft to assume we're talking about English Labour but hey, takes all sorts I guess.
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May 11, 2014 14:18
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LemonDrizzle posted:During its last tenure in government, the Labour party invested heavily in the NHS, the education system, and social housing, and also significantly expanded the welfare state via the tax credit system. They also engaged in a lot of privatisation (prisons, NHS, planned the Royal Mail privatisation), huge deregulation of the financial sector, were ridiculously fond of PFI, presided over a rise in inequality (some of which has to be attributed to their complacency over redistributive tax and tax avoidance), egged on the housing bubble, introduced workfare, introduced academies. Then of course the really, really big one, for which they deserve to be unelectable for a generation, Iraq. They weren't conservative, they were generally better than the modern Tories (on quite a few issues worse than the pre-Thatcher Tories, though), but they weren't leftist either. If you want centrist liberalism, then that's fine, but I think most here want something a good deal more leftist than that, and I don't think we should start snarking people for being dissatisfied with New Labour; there's a wealth of reasons to be.
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May 11, 2014 14:24
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Alecto posted:They also engaged in a lot of privatisation (prisons, NHS, planned the Royal Mail privatisation), huge deregulation of the financial sector, were ridiculously fond of PFI, presided over a rise in inequality (some of which has to be attributed to their complacency over redistributive tax and tax avoidance), egged on the housing bubble, introduced workfare, introduced academies. Then of course the really, really big one, for which they deserve to be unelectable for a generation, Iraq. They weren't conservative, they were generally better than the modern Tories (on quite a few issues worse than the pre-Thatcher Tories, though), but they weren't leftist either. If you want centrist liberalism, then that's fine, but I think most here want something a good deal more leftist than that, and I don't think we should start snarking people for being dissatisfied with New Labour; there's a wealth of reasons to be. So who you voting for? The Libdems again?
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May 11, 2014 14:26
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Fluo posted:So who you voting for? The Libdems again?
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May 11, 2014 14:29
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LemonDrizzle posted:the Labour party invested heavily in the NHS Like how after privatising cleaning services, cleanliness standards tanked and they had to pump money in to get infection control back up to snuff ~investment~. Or maybe PFI did lead to trusts getting some nice facilities, at the expense of being insolvent ~investment~ I suppose it depends on a person's degree of cynicism whether Labour intentionally funnelled public money into private hands under the guise of ~investment~, or whether they simply did it through sheer force of incompetence, but New Labour facilitated the near monopolization of service provision by ATOS et al and they've made off like bandits with our money. Darth Walrus posted:Does that apply to Scottish Labour, though? I'm aware that the same party can have a different culture in different regions, and Scottish Labour have quite a rep as toxic shitheels. There is no registered party called 'Scottish Labour', there is the Scottish extent of the UK Labour party; who are composed of D-list/failed councillors and have been noted for going right as the SNP has come at them from the left ("something for nothing culture  "), and their last leader hiding in a sandwich shop to avoid protesters.
twoot fucked around with this message at 14:43 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 14:32
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mfcrocker posted:Given that we are looking for Scottish tories it's a bit daft to assume we're talking about English Labour but hey, takes all sorts I guess. Labour Party is a party of the United Kingdom, when talking about Scottish Tories (note without "party" part) then saying they're called the Labour Party (note with "party" part) it's pretty forgiving for thinking they meant the Labour Party and not Scottish Labour Party. But ignore that lets smash the state acab. Labour are tories, all vote Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist) and lets frack our brains out with these awesome trot papers!
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May 11, 2014 14:32
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Fluo posted:So who you voting for? The Libdems again? Totally irrelevant really; I don't think the Tories have ever not won here. Green in the EU though; they stand a decent chance of a seat. (Yes, I did know a significant number of Lib Dems are far from left-wing; that's why I've never voted for them.) To a certain extent Milliband's brought me back to the party, I can see voting for them next year.
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May 11, 2014 14:33
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Alecto posted:Totally irrelevant really; I don't think the Tories have ever not won here. Green in the EU though; they stand a decent chance of a seat. (Yes, I did know a significant number of Lib Dems are far from left-wing; that's why I've never voted for them.) There's still some Blairites within the Labour Party but I think if they aren't given enough powers it will make them more votable. David Milliband is a massive Blairite, Ed Milliband however isn't and wasn't traditionally compared to his brother, and the big Blairites like John Rein, Alan Milburn, Hazel Blears, David Blunkett etc. However when trying to get some votes for leader he did say he is a 'fan' of Tony Blair and has spoken in praise of 'early Blairism'. Take that as you will, either means he was trying to take some of the votes that would have default went to David Milliband or if he was a fan honeymoon period of Blairism (eg all the stuff he did prior to the Iraq War). Edit: Long story short: The better of the two brothers got picked. Fluo fucked around with this message at 14:51 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 14:48
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Fluo posted:There's still some Blairites within the Labour Party but I think if they aren't given enough powers it will make them more votable. David Milliband is a massive Blairite, Ed Milliband however isn't and wasn't traditionally compared to his brother, and the big Blairites like John Rein, Alan Milburn, Hazel Blears, David Blunkett etc. However when trying to get some votes for leader he did say he is a 'fan' of Tony Blair and has spoken in praise of 'early Blairism'. Take that as you will, either means he was trying to take some of the votes that would have default went to David Milliband or if he was a fan honeymoon period of Blairism (eg all the stuff he did prior to the Iraq War). Definitely agree, Ed seemed the most left-wing candidate (apart from Diane Abbot who was a bit, well, odd) and I definitely would've left (again) had David won. It's hard to tell where the Blairites are at at the moment. Early on it seemed they'd been pushed to the edges, given especially the noises that folks like Dan Hodges were making, but after it became clear Ed's negatives weren't going to go down they seemed to gain a bit more influence. Tom Watson's resignation supposedly had a Blairite hand in it. Certainly not fond of some of the shadow cabinet, but the big policy announcements have been the best I've heard since before Blair, so I'm cautiously optimistic.
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May 11, 2014 15:01
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twoot posted:Britain First Political Election Broadcast 2014 I love how the "we" in "we are a minority" is a) white British only and b) only a shade less than 50%. Also the whole bit with "here are some quotes from GADDAFI, WELL KNOWN TYRANT AND SPEAKER FOR MOSLEMS". Great stuff. goddamnedtwisto posted:Even if you're absolutely on board with the European Ideal, the actual European Union is bloated, massively corrupt, and generally about the worst possible way of implementing that ideal. But would you agree that getting out right now is not likely to do anything to fix this or help the UK in the short term?
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May 11, 2014 15:14
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The problem with Scottish Labour is that a year after Johann Lamont was elected leader, she said that Scottish Labour should repeal lots of the universal benefits introduced by previous Scottish governments (stuff like free prescriptions, free elderly care, free university education) with one of her reasons being that they were "electoral bribery" from Alex Salmond even though most of them were introduced under the Labour/Lib Dem coalition. The problem is that they've not said anything about them since 2012 so no one is really sure whether looking into abolishing them is Scottish Labour policy or not, and we won't really know until before the 2016 Scottish election since Scottish Labour won't stand under their own manifesto in 2015. Scottish Labour appear to the right of the SNP on most issues: whether its just because the SNP are there that's causing them to appear that way or whether they actually are compared to the UK party is hard to say until the next Scottish election... I know all of the food bank stuff is pretty well known in this thread, but a friend of mine shared on Facebook this video of a guy from a Scottish voluntary food bank speaking in a Scottish Parliament committee debate. I think its pretty good! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-ZMwp1elXw
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May 11, 2014 15:26
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I'm furious that Gove is patching his pet project with that money. I have a daughter who goes to school in 3 years, and I literally feel like he's a danger to her future. Diverting money away from real schools and moving places over to free schools is such hypocrisy. It's supposed to be about choice. I don't want my daughter going anywhere near a free school - what about my choice, you arrogant, self-absorbed, oval office. Sorry, this man just defies belief. Edit: This was obviously in response to a post about Gove, that I've now lost. Still... oval office. EvilGenius fucked around with this message at 16:48 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 16:43
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EvilGenius posted:I'm furious that Gove is patching his pet project with that money. I have a daughter who goes to school in 3 years, and I literally feel like he's a danger to her future.
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May 11, 2014 16:58
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I forgot, in my impotent rage, that I was going to ask something. What's likely to happen to free schools and academies if the Tories lose the next election? Do they continue to get funding? Do they get their funding cut and become private schools? Do they simply get shut down? This yet another issue with the free school concept - not only do you end up with schools run by entirely unqualfied people, with suspect motives, you're tying these schools to a political party and ideology that isn't necessarily going to be around in a few years.
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May 11, 2014 17:28
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EvilGenius posted:I forgot, in my impotent rage, that I was going to ask something. See that's the genius of it. If you can ever apply that word to Tories. If you mess with them, chances are it's going to cause some sort of disruption and pain no matter how well-executed it is, because that is the nature of things. The Tories will cry foul and say you're endangering Britain's youth because of party politics (rather than, you know, because they're implementing an astonishingly bad idea). Leave them alone and the Tories will crow about what a great idea it was and how even their political opponents accept this.
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May 11, 2014 17:50
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EvilGenius posted:I forgot, in my impotent rage, that I was going to ask something. What happens is a Classic Labour Backstab
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May 11, 2014 17:51
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EvilGenius posted:I forgot, in my impotent rage, that I was going to ask something. I'd guess that Labour will be too cowardly to nationalise them. After that if the Swedish example is anything to go by, then over time free schools will get bought out and grouped by larger and larger free-school management companies, who will strip them dry of investment and eventually lead them to near failure - when they'll need to get taken back into public ownership. Classic.
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May 11, 2014 17:55
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Hahahaa. The Labour Party are out to get Nige! http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27360818
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May 11, 2014 18:04
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He needs protecting from all those scary eggs people throw at him. Maybe even eggs from the EU. 
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May 11, 2014 18:53
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Renaissance Robot posted:But would you agree that getting out right now is not likely to do anything to fix this or help the UK in the short term? In the world as it stands right now? No, we're definitely much better inside the tent pissing out, not least because the only scenarios that are likely to end up with us outside the EU are cataclysmic. If you could wave a magic wand, reset the UK economy and political situation back to about 1967, and impregnate every copy of Road to Serfdom with some kind of extremely powerful poison, we'd be better off out of the EU.
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May 11, 2014 19:10
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KKKlean Energy posted:What happens is a Classic Labour Backstab Safest option. Promise to close the schools and you piss off a lot of pushy parents and disadvantage a lot of children (switching schools screws children up something fierce). Do nothing and you'll annoy teachers and everyone who dislikes free schools (everyone except Tories and some pushy parents who couldn't get their children into their first choice primary/secondary or afford an independent school). There is also the legal issue of the free schools and academies having signed seven year contracts (certainly academies, I think it's the case with free schools). So safest option, allow existing free schools and academies to continue to run as is for the duration of their contracts and then depending on how well they're doing bring them back under LEA oversight or allow them to continue. For some areas it may be beneficial to have academies, note not Govian Free Schools, set up to meet demand...especially as the work to set them up will be done by unpaid sponsors (which from what I understand will be parent groups). But.... Labour will lift the restriction on councils/LEAs building new Community schools ("LEA Schools"), the restriction which is currently causing all the problems with school place shortages. When councils can build their own schools, there is no local need for a parent-led academy, hence, Labour ends Gove's shadow education system, without fanfare but also without causing a fuss. That's my reading of Hunt's pronouncements, and I think it's a fairly sensible plan. It doesn't give us the cathartic destruction by flame of screaming Toby Young upon a bonfire of school caps and Latin textbooks, but it does mean that the privatisation of schooling is halted. My dream Labour policy would be to reform the ILEA, with centralised control of schools policy, educationalists in charge of setting curriculum and school building done in house by specialist educational architects (which is what my dad was, until Thatcher!). Build a tonne of new special schools because inclusive education is failing (particularly for children with autism) and build a crapton of community primary and secondary schools with small pupil numbers. Setting up a royal college of teachers to take over professional standards would also be on the list. HortonNash fucked around with this message at 19:17 on May 11, 2014 |
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May 11, 2014 19:11
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McDragon posted:He needs protecting from all those scary eggs people throw at him. Maybe even eggs from the EU. I loved him saying he was a 'Free Spirit' but gently caress any of those foreigns who want free movement.
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May 11, 2014 19:16
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Remember a few pages back when we had a laugh at the UKIP Small & Medium Business Spokesman and his website? You may remember that he claims that the EU has "Employment policies which make it impossible to employ", but then went no further as to what particular policies he had in mind. Well, it turns out that the internet doesn't forget. Here is his website as archived on April the 29th this year.  There you go. The EU employment laws that UKIP's Small & Medium Business Spokesman would like to get rid of. Not a huge surprise, granted, but worth knowing.
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May 11, 2014 19:19
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frontlineKHAAAN! posted:Remember a few pages back when we had a laugh at the UKIP Small & Medium Business Spokesman and his website? You may remember that he claims that the EU has "Employment policies which make it impossible to employ", but then went no further as to what particular policies he had in mind. So basically everything that makes it tolerable to be an employee. Did they just print out a copy of the Koch Brothers' wish list for American employment law, and say "done!"?
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May 11, 2014 19:21
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Look, do you want a job or not? You can't complain about losing out to foreign workers if you're not willing to make yourself competitive by abandoning the right to higher pay, you know? Really, it's always something with you working types 
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May 11, 2014 19:27
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Outright loving evil. He just wants to be able to get away with treating his workers like slaves. "Pregnant and you expect to be able to have time off to deliver it? The cheek of it, next you'll want Christmas off."
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May 11, 2014 19:35
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Hah drat son. £1.39 an hour for everyone and gently caress you if you want children or holidays.
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May 11, 2014 19:37
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These fuckers will want jam on it next.
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May 11, 2014 19:41
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Goldskull posted:Hah drat son. £1.39 an hour for everyone and gently caress you if you want children or holidays. Who could predict problems when UKIP policies collide? Ending workplace protections and minimum wage. And Handguns for everyone! Wait, wait, are UKIP secretly trying to arm and motivate La Revolución?
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May 11, 2014 19:43
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HortonNash posted:Wait, wait, are UKIP secretly trying to arm and motivate La Revolución? I suppose that it would be less depressing to view everything Farage says as if he is really an accelerationist 
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May 11, 2014 19:46
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Trickjaw posted:These fuckers will want jam on it next. You know what you lefties problem is, you want to moon on a stick!!! Seriously though, UKIP basically want the UK to be like the end of Threads but without having to go to the bother of getting nuked.
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May 11, 2014 19:51
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HortonNash posted:Wait, wait, are UKIP secretly trying to arm and motivate La Revolución? I can't think of anything wrong with arming ill-informed racists.
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May 11, 2014 19:59
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Trickjaw posted:I can't think of anything wrong with arming ill-informed racists. Just look at the Met.
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May 11, 2014 20:03
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Of course Amjad Bashir owns a chain of restaurants and wants to be able to treat his workers like slaves. Hard to meet people who run restaurants who don't believe that staff are there to be exploited.
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May 11, 2014 20:14
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Gonzo McFee posted:Of course Amjad Bashir owns a chain of restaurants and wants to be able to treat his workers like slaves. Hard to meet people who run restaurants who don't believe that staff are there to be exploited. Wonder if he got an inconvenient visit from Immigration or something.
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May 11, 2014 20:16
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Trickjaw posted:Wonder if he got an inconvenient visit from Immigration or something. Far more likely scenario is that someone actually did refuse to work Christmas, he fired them and then lost the proceeding tribunal and has since decided that all workers rights are terrible and put in place purely to spite the noble job creator.
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May 11, 2014 20:20
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