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That Itagaki fight is really cool cuz I'm pretty sure they just run around in circles for the first bit and the image of two guys in a boxing match trying to see who can run in circles faster is really good for me.
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May 11, 2014 13:28
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I went back a few pages in the thread to read the reactions to that fight and I gathered that everyone pretty much hates Itagaki, and I can understand why. I was even told he would be annoying by the friend who got me into Ippo in the first place but I don't know, man; I just like the kid. For whatever reason something about his fights just clicks with me. On another note, I finished Volg's world title match. That was also really good. I think from this point I'm going to stop reading until a fight is finished, then read it all at once in order to alleviate some of the pacing issues.
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May 11, 2014 16:13
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WhiffleballDude posted:I went back a few pages in the thread to read the reactions to that fight and I gathered that everyone pretty much hates Itagaki, and I can understand why. I was even told he would be annoying by the friend who got me into Ippo in the first place but I don't know, man; I just like the kid. For whatever reason something about his fights just clicks with me. Don't worry, I like him too. I think a lot of it stems from the fact that even though he is treated like some sort of prodigy, I think he has a lot of failing to do. He's gonna get his rear end kicked a bit before he goes fu God mode.
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May 11, 2014 17:39
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Itagaki doesn't bother me much but his matches are kinda  unless he's fighting a slugger like Imai.
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May 11, 2014 23:08
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I too like him and his loss to Imai at least for me was more unexpected than most things that happen in this manga, so even though the end of his story is super telegraphed, at least it isn't a straight line like every other character? But Idunno I find most of the characters in the series likable, it's just the pacing and the fights that blow.
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May 11, 2014 23:18
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Simoom posted:I too like him and his loss to Imai at least for me was more unexpected than most things that happen in this manga, so even though the end of his story is super telegraphed, at least it isn't a straight line like every other character? But Idunno I find most of the characters in the series likable, it's just the pacing and the fights that blow. Just lately though. Some fights are amazing, I don't know where he lost the ability to write them
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May 11, 2014 23:36
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I can't really complain about Itagaki too much when his father is probably the best character in the manga.
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May 12, 2014 00:03
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I wonder if there will ever be a new chapter again
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May 19, 2014 17:42
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It's out but it's not new in the sense of new content.
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May 20, 2014 13:30
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There's only a new raw. The translated chapters have been stuck at 1051 for a couple months or so.
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May 20, 2014 16:40
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Even though it's not new content. Took the coach long enough to figure out. MAYBE charging in wasn't the brightest idea.
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May 20, 2014 17:29
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I enjoy that Ippo is a world ranked boxer without the ability to step backwards.
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May 20, 2014 18:00
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Did anyone ever used to read 8-Bit Theater? Fighter's theoretical weapon, the swordchuks, are Ippo's strategy in a nutshell: charge in swinging, hoping to do more damage to your enemy than you do to yourself. Brilliant!
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May 21, 2014 00:14
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Shindragon posted:Even though it's not new content. Took the coach long enough to figure out. Oh he knows, but you can't complete an elaborate plan to murder a young man through boxing by teaching him how to withdraw.
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May 21, 2014 12:36
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Ippo! Use your Japanese spirit to break the seal of the ultimate forbidden technique: charge forward and hit him hard! with your fists!
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May 21, 2014 18:28
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Im super stoked that I just read 4 chapters on a clinch.
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May 22, 2014 01:54
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So I guess the point of these chapters is that Ippo is a really bad boxer who has only gotten this far in his career by having a cast iron skull and being able to punch so hard that he wins if you just gently caress up enough for him to really hit you good once or twice
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May 22, 2014 13:42
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Fabricated posted:So I guess the point of these chapters is that Ippo is a really bad boxer who has only gotten this far in his career by having a cast iron skull and being able to punch so hard that he wins if you just gently caress up enough for him to really hit you good once or twice He quite literally brushed Woli, a professional boxer and superb athlete, with the side of his glove which was enough to cripple him.
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May 22, 2014 13:44
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Fabricated posted:So I guess the point of these chapters is that Ippo is a really bad boxer who has only gotten this far in his career by having a cast iron skull and being able to punch so hard that he wins if you just gently caress up enough for him to really hit you good once or twice Weren't there matches for both Ippo and Takamura about how important the basics of boxing were? Like how going back to the basics and having complete control over them made them extremely good boxers or something? What the hell happened to that?
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May 22, 2014 16:04
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Garrand posted:Weren't there matches for both Ippo and Takamura about how important the basics of boxing were? Like how going back to the basics and having complete control over them made them extremely good boxers or something? What the hell happened to that? It was a big theme in both of Takamura's fights, but his whole thing is being a fusion between his animalistic side and his coach-infused straight boxing side. The Hawk fight was where the former was more important and the Eagle fight was where the latter was, I think. Ippo on the other hand never had any wild instinct in him, and the one time he did just "violence" (as the author likes to put it) he was like emotionally ruined. His entire loving thing is supposed to be a straightforward, well-drilled style that works because of a the coach's "genius" training and his own Japanese spirit or whatever, the only thing is that the training is utterly retarded it seems.
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May 22, 2014 16:49
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I always write a billion words on this dumbass comic so sorry but remember how awesome it was when Ippo took a Smash in order to hit break Sendo's ribs and psychologically took control of the fight to win it. He can't do poo poo like that anymore it seems
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May 22, 2014 16:55
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Fabricated posted:So I guess the point of these chapters is that Ippo is a really bad boxer who has only gotten this far in his career by having a cast iron skull and being able to punch so hard that he wins if you just gently caress up enough for him to really hit you good once or twice But where Ippo sucks is he only has one track. Other boxers can do several different tactics even if they mostly focus on one. Mr. Machisimo here can hold his own in a close fight even though he's an outboxer. But Ippo is lazer focusing on one thing, and while he does it really really well, if you can find a way around it he's got no answer. In my mind there's only two possible outcomes for this match: - Ippo comes up with a new tactic other than rushing in (probably some sort of dodging skill) to stop applying face to fist. - Ippo loses.
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May 22, 2014 16:58
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Bisse posted:The manga really focuses on the basics on boxing being important. E.g. Woli had a billion gimmicks and tricks and Itagaki did his GOTTA GO FAST thing but they both got ruined by the basics. Yeah I'm thinking if he's not going to lose then he's going to have to accidentally figure out some sort of step-in counter that he can bait the other guy into.
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May 22, 2014 17:05
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Bisse posted:In my mind there's only two possible outcomes for this match: -Ippo trusts himself and the coach, regains confidence in his boxing, and wins.
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May 22, 2014 23:53
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trucutru posted:-Ippo trusts himself and the coach, regains confidence in his boxing, and wins.
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May 23, 2014 08:02
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Bisse posted:If the solution to "you're losing because your strategy is to slam your head into the opponents fist" is "keep slamming your head into the opponents fist until it works" then I am literally going to flip the loving table. I suggest you find a table with nothing that expensive on it then.
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May 23, 2014 10:08
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There's one concept in manga that I can't wrap my head around, and I thought it didn't show itself in Ippo, but in the rematch with Ippo and Sendou, and that is the idea of strength and becoming stronger. It doesn't make any goddamn sense. In the end of Ippo's training and during the match Ippo starts going on and on about what it means to be strong and Sendou jumps into that wagon too. In DBZ or Bleach or something that makes sense, because the guy with the biggest fantasy power can conquer/protect the world, but Ippo is supposedly about real boxing. To me, "strength" means how much you can physically lift or it can even mean mental resilience if you stretch it, but in manga, becoming "strong" means you reach enlightenment and gain super powers. You can say that somebody is a "good" boxer or a "good" fighter but using the word "strong" here sounds like they are talking about RPG characters with high stats. It doesn't make any sense when talking about boxing, because you can still lose to a worse boxer if you are tired and have a bad day or fight a guy from a much bigger weight class. You can also lose to a worse fighter if you participate in a different combat sport tournament, like MMA or Muay thai or something. You can also lose to a much worse opponent if he has a weapon. Using the word "strong" here doesn't make any sense when it's not DBZ. Ippo and Sendou also started to go on about how they want to become strong because they want to protect people and that makes even less sense. Neither one of them want to protect anything. If you were Goku and you were training to fight Cell, it makes sense, or in real world if you practiced martial arts in order to be a better police officer or a corrections officer it makes sense, but with sports it's pure bullshit. Ippo and sendou box because they love it. They don't protect anybody by boxing. It's entertainment. If you were a fighter from a ghetto and the fight money could feed your family, but with Ippo? Hell no. So what is it with this poo poo? The concept of strength the way it is used in manga is so outlandisly weird and it does not have a place in real world. A professional fighter who works as a bouncer can get shanked by a junkie. It's not about RPG stats. It's about social skills, fighting skills, conditioning, size, strength and luck. You can't say "You can't stick him with a knife, he is stronger than you". Why on Earth manga uses the word "strength" here?
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May 30, 2014 21:16
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First off it might partially be a translation issue, for all I know? That happens. What's that one word that's always translated like "Killing Intent," as in "I could feel his Killing Intent from across the room" or "Wow, Ippo put all his Killing Intent into a feint and I was so scared I pissed myself." That one drives me nuts, but what can you do, there just isn't a proper English equivalent. Second and probably more importantly, these are written for little boys who fantasize about being big and strong and fighting people. So there's a desire to tell them, "Hey kids being a bully actually makes you weak not strong. Real strength is about standing up for what's right and sometimes helping your mom do chores and stuff," and then maybe the kids will do that stuff. McNerd fucked around with this message at 22:22 on May 30, 2014 |
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May 30, 2014 22:18
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They're both using boxing as an outlet. Ippo because he was always weak in the face of bullies and made his mom worry, and was never really going to amount to much before boxing despite being a nice kid. Sendo because of his dad dying and being a role model for those kids. It's actually a really well done theme, I think you're just reading it a little wrong. They're not like other shonen fighters, the "strength" they're seeking is fortitude of character that they can only find through boxing, because it's the only thing either have excelled in. The prelude to this is when Ippo fights Date, and his former bully is in the crowd saying something like "I don't need more miracles." Ippo wants to be strong to give them those miracles.
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May 30, 2014 22:36
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ManOfTheYear posted:So what is it with this poo poo? The concept of strength the way it is used in manga is so outlandisly weird and it does not have a place in real world. A professional fighter who works as a bouncer can get shanked by a junkie. It's not about RPG stats. It's about social skills, fighting skills, conditioning, size, strength and luck. You can't say "You can't stick him with a knife, he is stronger than you". Why on Earth manga uses the word "strength" here? That type of strength is one of the cornerstones of shonen manga and it is pretty much a prerequisite for them. In the case of Shonen Jump (Ippo is published in weekly shonen, but it's close) the stories have to be focused on friendship, effort, and victory, which is apparent in pretty much all the titles with some notable death-noteish exceptions. My guess is that the magazines want to be a positive influence for the boys and the whole enduring hellish training in order to become strong to protect something is one of the biggest of those positive messages. As for the "protection" thing, it is the most noble thing you can do with strength in shonen manga land (and the reason 90% of all protagonists fight) It doesn't matter if you are not actually protecting people physically, protecting their dreams is also a valid reason to fight and what Ippo is doing. Finally, there is nothing wrong with using the word strength and it is a perfectly valid translation. The best chess player in the world is indeed an incredibly strong opponent for another chess player but it doesn't mean that he can beat your rear end. And even if the junkie stabs the professional fighter the later is still stronger anyways. trucutru fucked around with this message at 02:18 on May 31, 2014 |
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May 31, 2014 02:14
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No you fool. Remember the beginning of the manga? Ippo under the bridge being punched and lying down crying while someone was calling his mother a slut or whatever it was? Being 'strong' is not lying down crying and taking that poo poo. Even if you'll get more beat up as a result. Ippo even says it pretty early on that he doesn't mind the pain after boxing and he isn't afraid of it, because it's only physical pain that passes after some time unlike the pain from being bullied did. In the ring he can do what he could never do before, which is not 'beat up a person', but rather to stand up for himself, take the pain and defeat it, and become successful all by himself. Ippo wants to become strong not just in the sense of puncin powar. But also in the sense of standing up for himself and becoming a better person. Standing up for what he believes in. Doing what he wants in his life. Facing a man that could wreck a car by lightly tapping it, and not backing down, looking him in the eye and not looking away after half a second. Dating a girl (he just made a move after 900 chapters for christ sake this kid needs serious help with ladies)! Facing a loving truck like Sendo, not backing down from fear, and finding a solution and path to victory, all on your own. Etc. In terms you can maybe understand: Being 'strong' means 'not being a pussy'. Bisse fucked around with this message at 11:06 on May 31, 2014 |
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May 31, 2014 11:04
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Mm, thanks for the explanations guys, I think I get it better now.trucutru posted:My guess is that the magazines want to be a positive influence for the boys and the whole enduring hellish training in order to become strong to protect something is one of the biggest of those positive messages. Your's was a very well written post. The idea of having that kind of a message and wanting to have a positive influence on the reader is just nice: for example, I have a problem with how sexuality is potrayed in manga and a lot of things about manga that first pop into mind are negative, so delibaretly trying to bring out positive ideas like this is just very, very nice. The part about protecting other people's dreams grinds me a bit, though. In Ippo, what dreams they are precisely? Being fit and strong and able to defeat others? Being in a ring everybody watching and rooting for you? I watch a sport if I like the sport and want to see top performances by excellent players, maybe to pick something for my own game, but I couldn't give a rats who actually wins. Why would I get a sense of accomplishment if some person who I don't even know wins a match or be dissappointed if somebody loses? This is why professional sports have always baffled me, so the idea of protecting other people's dreams feels just as rear end-backwards. It's not a tanglible thing you are protecting and for a lot of people it's not even real. Same goes for finding your inner strength through professional boxing: most of people understand the value of not being a pussy once they get over their worst teen years and grow over the self doubt. Putting yourself through hellish training and suffering from the concequences - injuries, brain damage etc. - only to end up at the same conclusion feels a bit harsh. Somebody somewhere wrote something about pro boxers having serious inner demons to fight with because they go through the training and climb into the ring again and again. The issues, though, are the same things everybody else is dealing with, just more exaggerated.
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May 31, 2014 21:04
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ManOfTheYear posted:
Kamogawa's. One of the big things in this silly manga is that Kamogawa was not able to show that his boxing is superior and Ippo is the true heir to his style. That kinda justifies (just the tiniest little bit) the coach semi-criminal behavior during the fights, he knows it is his last chance.
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May 31, 2014 22:06
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Being strong means being beaten into a persistent vegetative state for the sake of
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May 31, 2014 22:06
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SirDan3k posted:Being strong means being beaten into a persistent vegetative state for the sake of Okay now I got it.
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Jun 1, 2014 10:59
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ManOfTheYear posted:Mm, thanks for the explanations guys, I think I get it better now. This is so far removed from my frame of reference that it sounds insane to me lol
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Jun 1, 2014 17:49
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tbp posted:This is so far removed from my frame of reference that it sounds insane to me lol Yeah, pretty much. If the idea of being inspired by someone else's hard work and passion, even in a field you would never pursue yourself, is completely foreign to you... then sorry I guess.
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Jun 1, 2014 18:15
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tbp posted:This is so far removed from my frame of reference that it sounds insane to me lol Yeah i mean i dont want to insult you or anything mate but what you just wrote sound, like, mildly sociopathic? Like, yes people do in fact care about intangible and unimportant things and do take suboptimal decisions, that's a central part of, like, most fiction. It is how humans work. You post sounds like BEEP BOOP I AM A ROBOT I DO NOT SEE THE LOGIC IN HUMAN E-MO-TIOOOOONS
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Jun 1, 2014 22:08
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McNerd posted:First off it might partially be a translation issue, for all I know? That happens. What's that one word that's always translated like "Killing Intent," as in "I could feel his Killing Intent from across the room" or "Wow, Ippo put all his Killing Intent into a feint and I was so scared I pissed myself." That one drives me nuts, but what can you do, there just isn't a proper English equivalent. Oy. I hate that I remember this, but I think it's "sakki". Google Translate gives me 殺気, which looks about right.
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Jun 8, 2014 05:46
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While the forums were dead, Ippo 1053 and Ippo 1054 came out. Ippo got punched some more and both sides are removing the limiters.
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Jun 26, 2014 02:10
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