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shrike82 posted:people and media will reflexively slant something coming out from Japan as peculiar. Phrasing...
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May 11, 2014 23:33
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CronoGamer posted:Phrasing... Shut the gently caress up there's nothing wrong with that
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May 11, 2014 23:36
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shrike82 posted:How is this different from the Mittelstand model in Germany? The reason that Japan was so late in automatic factories was just how damned cheap human labour was - the same is not true of Germany.
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May 11, 2014 23:39
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ookiimarukochan posted:The reason that Japan was so late in automatic factories was just how damned cheap human labour was - the same is not true of Germany. That's not really relevant to my point about apprenticeships in SMEs.
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May 11, 2014 23:44
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LimburgLimbo posted:Shut the gently caress up there's nothing wrong with that 
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May 11, 2014 23:52
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Reverend Cheddar posted:Well what we're coming to already is the Galapagos effect, isn't it? I think all of us are pretty well-aware that Japan has some pretty high tech stuff (toilets man toilets), but they are high tech things aimed strictly at the domestic market. That's the trouble, when they have to interact somehow with the rest of the world which has for the most part moved on and Japan continues to dig its hole in the sand. I think you might be right about the Galapagos thing at least in terms of i-mode, but all the other stuff I mentioned is based on social and market forces which I guess are "unique" to Japan, but if you start going that route then you get into some weird places. Where's Germany's Netflix? Why does Australia have a drastically reduced number of game titles that carry an M rating in America? Aren't they also suffering from Galapagos syndrome? Using the term Galapagos is pretty loaded and carries with it the idea of evolutionary "dead ends", which only appear that way to outsider observers because they aren't taking into account local market conditions. You are absolutely right to apply that label to cell phone technology, because Japan had some of the best in the world but could not and would not export it for a huge variety of reasons. Streaming services and other things might not be appropriate for it.
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May 11, 2014 23:55
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ookiimarukochan posted:The reason that Japan was so late in automatic factories was just how damned cheap human labour was This sounds very contrary to my understanding of the Japanese factory, especially after the 1960 Miike strike. Japanese labor was/is some of the best compensated in the world, at least in certain sectors and certain company classes. Did you read this in a book or article somewhere? I'm not trying to be pedantic, I'm honestly curious because if so I probably need to familiarize myself with it.
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May 11, 2014 23:59
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Shinobo posted:I think you might be right about the Galapagos thing at least in terms of i-mode, but all the other stuff I mentioned is based on social and market forces which I guess are "unique" to Japan, but if you start going that route then you get into some weird places. Where's Germany's Netflix? Why does Australia have a drastically reduced number of game titles that carry an M rating in America? Aren't they also suffering from Galapagos syndrome? And saying Japan is weird doesn't mean not saying anywhere else is weird. We're all weird. This isn't the thread about other countries though, just Japan. But still, I'd like to hear more stories about old men loving each other. Anything new going on with Abe's plan? Anyone in the government made a hilarious racist/sexist gaffe recently? Also, as per the request last page, I wish someone had some good non-rear end in a top hat political commentary site in Japanese for us to read. I sure can't find any. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 00:09 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 00:00
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LimburgLimbo posted:Shut the gently caress up there's nothing wrong with that Congrats on taking this thread so seriously and policing what was surely an earnest admonition on my part not to use the word slant. Well done
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May 12, 2014 00:18
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Samurai Sanders posted:Well...the Japanese started using that term to describe their own phones. Unless I am mistaken, Westerners had nothing to do with that. http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E3%82....9B.9E.E9.81.BF You're absolutely correct. When the term was first used in a book by a major researcher it was to describe Japanese cell phone and certain manufacturing sectors as requiring another "opening" a la the black ships of Perry. My point was that it was used in a very specific way to mean a specific thing. It can't be appropriated to describe everything that might seem "backward" about Japan because they seem to be missing certain market developments that we take for granted. There was willful reluctance at the ministerial and corporate level to export cell phone technology that would have given Japan a clear advantage. A similar willful reluctance is not apparent in the other cases.
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May 12, 2014 00:20
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Speculating, but I'd have to presume that the barrier keeping Netflix out is licensing. The actual value of licensing something for streaming is known now, so the cost will be much higher than when Netflix started out. Couple that with whatever influence Tsutaya et al have on the content producers, and, bam, no Netflix. I think they're going to have to team up with a Tsutaya or a Rakuten or maybe a Sony to get a foothold. It's a real shame too, since the internet infrastructure is so nice and there's actual competition between providers so the potential for Comcast-style rent-seeking BS seems low.
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May 12, 2014 01:25
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CronoGamer posted:Congrats on taking this thread so seriously and policing what was surely an earnest admonition on my part not to use the word slant. Well done I know it's a joke but when you take a word used innocuously and draw attention to its racial connotations in other contexts it's no different from you using the word in earnest yourself. So congratulations you're now both unfunny *and* a racist shitheel in my eyes.
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May 12, 2014 01:49
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Mr. Fix It posted:Speculating, but I'd have to presume that the barrier keeping Netflix out is licensing. The actual value of licensing something for streaming is known now, so the cost will be much higher than when Netflix started out. Couple that with whatever influence Tsutaya et al have on the content producers, and, bam, no Netflix. I think they're going to have to team up with a Tsutaya or a Rakuten or maybe a Sony to get a foothold. It's a real shame too, since the internet infrastructure is so nice and there's actual competition between providers so the potential for Comcast-style rent-seeking BS seems low. There's no need to speculate. The information is out there. There's no Netflix, but streaming services exist. DMM.com is a thing that exists. Hulu exists. PSN movie store exists. iTunes exists. This entire thing just sounds like somebody looked into it about 5 years ago, discovered Netflix wasn't available in the Japanese market, and then concluded that Japan was some sort of anti-streaming hellscape. The other thing that nobody has mentioned is that Japan has some really weird copyright laws that make using those hosed up illegal streaming sites legal for the end users. They cracked down on downloading in the most recent legislation, but left streaming alone. I think if you took those copyright infringing streaming services into account you would get a different picture of whether or not Japan "likes" streaming. There's a lot of backward poo poo in Japan. Streaming services and access to online video and digital content is not one of those things. Somebody mentioned the lack of digital game downloads based on Steam not being so popular. That is a bunch of horse poo poo as well. PSN has day 1 digital for pretty much all games on PS3/PS4/Vita. Nintendo has a similar policy for Wii U/3DS. DMM.com offers PC game downloads. The prepaid cards for all this poo poo are also available at nearly every convenience store you can find, and that's primarily how a lot of users, especially minors, access these services. ErIog fucked around with this message at 02:01 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 01:53
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Japan expat bubble is amazing sometimes. I was going to point out that there is also Rakuten Showtime and Viki (also owned by Rakuten). I wouldn't be surprised if Viki doesn't become (or probably already is) the largest steaming video service in Asia.
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May 12, 2014 02:14
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Yeah, I guess I gotta admit, I am indeed going off info from Japan from five years ago or so and not realizing it. They were behind then, but I guess they are caught up now. When I left Japan I told myself that I wouldn't participate in these expat rant sessions based on scant facts anymore, but here I am. poo poo. edit: also, they sure dropped Galapagos phones quickly. Not a single one of my Japanese students here has anything but one of the latest smartphones, usually an iPhone. I heard people over there predicting that smartphones would never catch on, right up until the minute that literally everyone had one. Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 02:35 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 02:17
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LimburgLimbo posted:I know it's a joke but when you take a word used innocuously and draw attention to its racial connotations in other contexts it's no different from you using the word in earnest yourself. So congratulations you're now both unfunny *and* a racist shitheel in my eyes. You were the dude that did that, I was under the impression you were trying to point out an unintentional pun as a sort of haha moment. The was to tell you it was groaner.
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May 12, 2014 02:35
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ErIog posted:Somebody mentioned the lack of digital game downloads based on Steam not being so popular. That is a bunch of horse poo poo as well. PSN has day 1 digital for pretty much all games on PS3/PS4/Vita. Nintendo has a similar policy for Wii U/3DS. DMM.com offers PC game downloads. The prepaid cards for all this poo poo are also available at nearly every convenience store you can find, and that's primarily how a lot of users, especially minors, access these services. In their defense, I think they meant digital downloads that are PC centric. In that case Steam does lose out....to the services that you mentioned. I always love that I can walk into a 7-11 and buy a digital code for the latest Dragon Quest on the DS or an actual copy of the game. Try doing that in the tech haven that is America.
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May 12, 2014 03:39
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Shinobo posted:In their defense, I think they meant digital downloads that are PC centric. In that case Steam does lose out....to the services that you mentioned. Oh snap, buying stuff in a store! HOW WILL AMERICA EVER CATCH UP?!?!?!?!
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May 12, 2014 03:41
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Mr. Fix It posted:Oh snap, buying stuff in a store! HOW WILL AMERICA EVER CATCH UP?!?!?!?! Look, it's pretty obvious what I meant. Convenience stores have penetration that borders on the ridiculous there. If you live in an urban area you are no more than a 20 minute WALK from the nearest one, and in country areas no more than a 20 minute bike ride. Compare that to here. If you want to go to a store that sells games, how far do you have to drive if you live in Nevada? Or Missouri? Or even an actually well developed place like the East Bay? Japan has brick-and-mortar supremacy in certain areas. End of story.
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May 12, 2014 03:50
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Shinobo posted:Look, it's pretty obvious what I meant. That's just population density. Head out to sparsely populated areas in Japan and you often don't find nearby convenience stores. Or ones that aren't big chains and don't have the plethora of services that your 7-11s or Lawsons do. And getting hard goods delivered to your door in a day or two and software delivered straight to your devices instantly really trumps retail in most ways. Why are you going to a store for a string of letters and numbers, anyways? Why can't that be delivered to your email inbox? Oh, and 'here' for me is Japan.
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May 12, 2014 03:58
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Shinobo posted:In their defense, I think they meant digital downloads that are PC centric. In that case Steam does lose out....to the services that you mentioned. Them completely ignoring the reality of the structure of the existing market in Japan is not a point in their defense. It's more of this garbage where: 1) Foreign person searches for familiar thing in Japan. 2) Doesn't find familiar thing. 3) Never bothers to talk to a Japanese person about that thing. 4) Comes to bizarre conclusion and justification that doesn't hold up scrutiny. 5) <optional> Tries to start a career blogging about Japan based on their highly-reliable first-hand knowledge of Japan.
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May 12, 2014 04:02
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Mr. Fix It posted:That's just population density. Head out to sparsely populated areas in Japan and you often don't find nearby convenience stores. Or ones that aren't big chains and don't have the plethora of services that your 7-11s or Lawsons do. And getting hard goods delivered to your door in a day or two and software delivered straight to your devices instantly really trumps retail in most ways. Why are you going to a store for a string of letters and numbers, anyways? Why can't that be delivered to your email inbox? Let's put aside that there are a ton of options available in Japan for various types of streaming media (all listed above) - there is absolutely zero market for any kind of downloadable media in the areas of Japan you are talking about. Unless there's some kind of market for 70 year old grandmas and rice farmers.
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May 12, 2014 04:55
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Womacks-JP-23 posted:Let's put aside that there are a ton of options available in Japan for various types of streaming media (all listed above) - there is absolutely zero market for any kind of downloadable media in the areas of Japan you are talking about. So rural areas a doubly under-served? What point are you trying make?
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May 12, 2014 05:13
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Mr. Fix It posted:That's just population density. Head out to sparsely populated areas in Japan and you often don't find nearby convenience stores. Or ones that aren't big chains and don't have the plethora of services that your 7-11s or Lawsons do. And getting hard goods delivered to your door in a day or two and software delivered straight to your devices instantly really trumps retail in most ways. Why are you going to a store for a string of letters and numbers, anyways? Why can't that be delivered to your email inbox? You're exactly correct in that it's based on population density. Not just population density but also demographic density. People who live in rural areas aren't the ones who are going to be interested in the products we're both talking about, making their placement there useless. My wife is from a small town south of Nagoya where the nearest Circle-K was a 30 minute drive away. I lived in said town for four years as well. I know well how much rural areas can suck for things like this, but since the population of her town was quite literally 70% over the age of 55 what was the point of putting more conbini per square kilometer? That's sort of beside my point though. If conbini placement is based on population and demographic density, then all you've really said is that conbini companies know where to place their stores for maximum return from the maximum number of people. My point stands: Japan is supreme in certain sectors when it comes to brick-and-mortar things. End of story. Whether or not this is a desirable condition is an entirely different question. In the specific case you mention about letters and numbers being sent to email, I think you're right in some ways. Then again, Facebook credits, Steam wallet chargers, and a host of other things that would be better off sent through email sell like hot cakes in America, so it's clear that they aren't "backward" or "weird" in that sense either.
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May 12, 2014 05:14
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ErIog posted:Them completely ignoring the reality of the structure of the existing market in Japan is not a point in their defense. It's more of this garbage where: 6)<high level achievement>Get job at Kotaku
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May 12, 2014 05:17
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I don't get it. So Japan doesn't serve downloadable content (e.g., Steam) just like the States does... and what?
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May 12, 2014 05:24
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shrike82 posted:I don't get it. this thread has hit one of its many white nerds complaining about pointless poo poo derails
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May 12, 2014 05:34
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PS+ is really lousy in Japan too! Explain!
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May 12, 2014 05:35
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shrike82 posted:I don't get it. This whole not doing things the "right" way is seen as yet another way that Japan is broken compared to the rest of the world because it doesn't fit any known model and is an "exceptional" case. This poo poo has been being said since the 1960s and Ezra Vogel's "Japan As Number One" and probably won't ever go away.
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May 12, 2014 05:42
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hadji murad posted:PS+ is really lousy in Japan too! Explain! But yeah...I would really like this thread to stay distinct from the general Japan thread (though I'm guilty of derails too), but I guess politics over there move to slow to have enough to talk about? Samurai Sanders fucked around with this message at 05:55 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 05:51
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To be fair, it's an expat thing everywhere in the world to bitch about locals and local customs. Chat to a European living in the States and he'll likely have a laundry list of Americanisms to vent about. Japan's slightly more extreme in that a lot of foreigners there never pick up any real facility with the language. For ugly expat syndrome, you can't beat China right now though.
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May 12, 2014 05:56
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shrike82 posted:To be fair, it's an expat thing everywhere in the world to bitch about locals and local customs. Yes, those terrible expats complaining about traditional Chinese customs like having no manners in public spaces and street making GBS threads. It might be that China is a much poorer and more backward country than the countries that most expats come from, hence they find it difficult to adapt. That or they're bad people. (the second isn't entirely untrue)
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May 12, 2014 06:04
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I was actually thinking more of expats going colonial and treating locals like dirt. I went on a business trip to Shanghai last year and was brought out on a night out with some Japanese businessmen. Some of the stuff I saw was pretty disgusting.
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May 12, 2014 06:17
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Samurai Sanders posted:Yeah, I guess I gotta admit, I am indeed going off info from Japan from five years ago or so and not realizing it. They were behind then, but I guess they are caught up now. Five years ago I had a service very similar to NetFlix, called Hikari TV, bundled with my internet service.
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May 12, 2014 06:26
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Posting anecdotes should be made a probatable offense in this thread or something. I can't think of a way other than that to prevent stupid derails that belong in LAN. Anyway, there is actual real news going on in Japan guys! Erlog's Bullshit Summary posted:British right winger lies about denying Nanking Massacre happened in his book, and gets caught. The rest of the world marvels at the extent to which historical revisionism still happens in Japan. Erlog's Bullshit Summary posted:Sheldon Adelson, the rest of the business community, and Japan as a whole continues to mistakenly think gambling isn't legal in Japan. Adelson plans to dump a bunch of money into developing legal western-style casinos in Tokyo/Osaka. Erlog's Bullshit Summary posted:Neoliberal policies are the only way to fix Japan! Erlog's Bullshit Summary posted:The yen weakening moderately failed to unleash the power of exports. I'm so shocked there's not as many exports when the yen is trading at like 102 yen to the dollar. It's almost like the yen being at 135 yen to the dollar or 165 yen to the dollar like a bunch of years ago was a significant factor! Erlog's Bullshit Summary posted:Japanese economy is going to be eaten by a volcano of debt and sink into the ocean any minute now! Any minute now! Oh, and government bond yields are still super low, but they're gonna sky rocket any minute now! Erlog's Bullshit Summary posted:Summer blockbuster slated to be released in Japan as well! ErIog fucked around with this message at 07:43 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 07:41
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ErIog posted:
I was pleasantly surprised to reach the end of this story without seeing a tenuous reference to "rising right-wing nationalism" in Japan, or "hawkish Prime Minister Abe". If we're generally discussing pet peeves when it comes to non-Japanese reportage of Japanese news, my ichi-ban is the tendency to ascribe one-off incidences of racism / discrimination to (fictional) transitions in broader social phenomena. By this I don't mean that there aren't racist groups in Japan, only that I can't see any evidence of a trend towards this racism becoming any more popular than it has been in the past.
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May 12, 2014 08:02
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ozza posted:I was pleasantly surprised to reach the end of this story without seeing a tenuous reference to "rising right-wing nationalism" in Japan, or "hawkish Prime Minister Abe". If we're generally discussing pet peeves when it comes to non-Japanese reportage of Japanese news, my ichi-ban is the tendency to ascribe one-off incidences of racism / discrimination to (fictional) transitions in broader social phenomena. By this I don't mean that there aren't racist groups in Japan, only that I can't see any evidence of a trend towards this racism becoming any more popular than it has been in the past. How popular does it need to be when 70%* of the population doesn't vote? *I don't remember the number, some sperg can look it up.
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May 12, 2014 08:11
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Stringent posted:How popular does it need to be when 70%* of the population doesn't vote? 30 - 40% doesn't vote. http://www.idea.int/vt/countryview.cfm?CountryCode=JP Your point is still taken though. The LDP has always had the arch-conservatives going all the way back to Yoshida and Ikeda's marriage of convenience in 1955. As long as that elite core continues to get seats in the Diet, there will be an audience in high places for drivel. Shinobo fucked around with this message at 08:19 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 08:15
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ErIog posted:PSN has day 1 digital for pretty much all games on PS3/PS4/Vita. Nintendo has a similar policy for Wii U/3DS. DMM.com offers PC game downloads. I can't speak for PS4 or Vita, but PS3 digital downloads aren't even CLOSE to being "pretty much" all available on digital, let alone "day 1". It's been getting better over the past year or so but is still several years behind availability in the US/EU stores (given that a lot of the time it's the same publishers across region I don't know why this happens) - 3DS has a fairly significant percentage of games being cart only though they tend to be shovelware/kid-focused games so not a huge loss. The complaint with DMM is that it's only really "domestic PC" retailers who are available there - i.e. largely porn games (I suspect that DLSite have more titles too, you could certainly point out that digital distribution there appears to have given a massive boost to the production of doujin games). Plenty of Japanese AAA publishers are now totally happy to sell poo poo online overseas, but lock out Japan.
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May 12, 2014 10:31
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How are people forgetting niconama. Anyway here's some political news for people who speak Japanese I guess, with  summaries.47NEWS is a news aggregator and Kyodo News Service is basically Japanese AP. http://www.47news.jp/CN/201405/CN2014051201001498.html 中国人へのビザ発給１２％減 外務省統計、尖閣が影響 (Kyodo News Service) The MOJ released its official numbers for visas issued in 2013. 972,000 visas were issued to Chinese nationals, down 12.7% from 2012. They're interpreting that as a continuing effect of the souring of the Japanese-Chinese relationship following Japan just up and declaring they own the Senkaku islands (I think? I only ever heard about this in Japanese so I may be mistranslating the nuance) in September '12 (Visas issued to Chinese nationals in September~December of 2012 dropped 44.4%). Overall 1,874,000 visas were issued in '13, 6.1% less than the previous year. 52.1% of those were issued to Chinese, with the second most being issued to Thais at 9.9%. It doesn't say whether overall applications dropped or they were denying more. http://www.47news.jp/47topics/e/253258.php 選挙権年齢が「宿題」に 国民投票法改正、今国会中に成立へ (Kyodo News Service) A bill to amend the constitution such that the voting age for national referendums would be lowered to 18 is expected to pass in this Diet session (8 parties, including the ruling LDP, are in favor; doesn't say who's against, if anyone). If it passes, it can then be put to a national referendum; however, debate on the necessity of amending the constitution as well as the priority of the various clauses will take time. The proposed amendment would not affect the voting age for general elections or the legal age of majority. It would take effect four years after passing by referendum. The 8 parties agreed to lower the voting age within 2 years after it takes effect, but many in the LDP are negative about that possibility. Lowering the age of majority would be even more difficult, as there are nearly 300 related laws and regulations which would need to be changed. The amendment would also allow public employees (excepting police officers, etc) canvass for or against constitutional amendments. LDP wanted to forbid organized campaigning, but DPJ - who are backed by the gov't workers unions - managed to argue them down to a rider saying the problem needs "further consideration." http://ryukyushimpo.jp/news/storyid-225199-storytopic-53.html 辺野古の前倒し着工 稲嶺名護市長「あり得ない」 http://ryukyushimpo.jp/news/storyid-225171-storytopic-3.html 防衛局、名護と協議中止示唆 辺野古許可申請６項目 (Both Ryukyu Shimpo, an Okinawa newspaper) I spent like an hour trying to translate these articles (about recent Camp Schwab developments) to my own satisfaction and then 3 seconds with Google got me a much more in-depth English article (from the South China Post, of which I know nothing, but the article basically agrees with what the Japanese paper is saying so here you go) http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1510824/work-start-upgrading-us-base-japan-despite-fierce-opposition quote:The Japanese government is bringing forward work on the controversial replacement facility for the troops and aircraft currently stationed at the US Marine Corps' Futenma Air Station in Okinawa, ostensibly to demonstrate its commitment to closing the base within five years. quote:The Okinawa Defence Bureau has requested tenders for four projects. The first is for land reclamation work for the planned runways and the second is a survey of the coral reef that is offshore and will be partially covered if the runways are built. And here's another one about this from the Japan Times, which doesn't mention Mayor Inamine. http://the-japan-news.com/news/article/0001271056
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May 12, 2014 16:52
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