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Internet Kraken posted:How is the linking of the fire immediately obvious at all? The game doesn't tell you what that will do at all. It never does. All you know is that it might be a vaguely good thing based on what some NPCs say. If you think for yourself at all though, you can tell the effects of it are poorly understood. Only Frampt knows what will happen, and he's not telling you the full story. Its a dubious goal at best. It's immediately obvious because literally the intro of the game directly links the waning of the Fire to the undead curse and poo poo going to hell. Like I said, immediately obvious. And so what? I'm a demigod who's Undead and who will inevitably forget poo poo and go Hollow, who cares? Moreover, why did I need some meaningless throne to do that?
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May 12, 2014 17:21
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Captain Oblivious posted:Nope sorry you don't even get the cat as one of your subjects. If you talk to her post-game she's like "Yo I'm out" BRB uninstalling.
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May 12, 2014 17:21
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I don't know if these are in high demand, but I have a guy with a Appoda fucked around with this message at 21:12 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 17:23
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So, your character forgets why he's in Drangleic. He decides to become king because that sounds like fun? Hell, he probably didn't even know that was the throne of want, his legs were just tired after fighting Nashandra.
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May 12, 2014 17:24
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Lemon Curdistan posted:These are two completely separate things, though. I agree that DS2's lore is perfectly fine, but the actual plot is a lot less clear than DS1. Part of that is probably because From felt they could get away with it now that we're on the third game in the series, but the game is still bad at giving you direction/motivation and a sense of purpose - it just goes "well, you should just go kill some stuff" whereas DS1 had much more specific directions, NPCs that explained why you had to do what you had to do (beyond "because") and even a cutscene that showed you what areas were opened by getting the Lordvessel. No, they both give you the exact same amount of plot (And what's given is pretty much 1:1, following the game's theme of the nature of repetition). You're given a purpose by Oscar/the Emerald Herald, are told more information on this purpose by the Crestfallen Warrior/Crestfallen Warrior and Shalquior, do the thing, receive more information from Frampt/the Emerald Herald, go to Anor Londo/the castle, do some things, receive more information from Frampt/the emerald Herald after this, kill some bosses then get the ending. The only real difference is that in Dark Souls you're given slightly clearer goals (that are ultimately lies made to manipulate you) whereas in Dark Souls II the Herald is a bit more vague about things, to fit with the theme of being manipulated and completing a goal that is nowhere near your own.
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May 12, 2014 17:24
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NihilVerumNisiMors posted:Aldia screwed around with powerful souls. Shanalotte is a result of that. Perhaps he got hold of a piece of Manus and she's really a Dark/Dragon hybrid and did it all to oust Nashandra and become ruler herself. *tips Vengarl helm* M'Queen
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May 12, 2014 17:25
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Captain Oblivious posted:It's immediately obvious because literally the intro of the game directly links the waning of the Fire to the undead curse and poo poo going to hell. I though the undead curse appeared precisely because Gwyn refused to let the Fire wane, and instead stoked it himself, prolonging the Age of Fire rather than letting the world pass naturally into the Age of Dark, as it was meant to. It's not clear what would've happened if the world had been allowed to go Dark, nor what that would've meant exactly... sometimes it's presented as a kinda-good "mankind takes hold of its own destiny and is no longer ruled by the gods" type scenario, but then again there's Manus and Kaathe and all their shady as poo poo business.
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May 12, 2014 17:27
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Do you have to have all of the miracles on the same character in order to get the master of miracles achievement? It's probably going to be tough to find reliable coop unless I start a new character specifically for getting Sunlight Spear since my soul memory is pretty high.
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May 12, 2014 17:28
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Inspector_666 posted:BRB uninstalling. I don't care about anybody besides Gavlan. As long as Gavlan is my subect I'll be the king and he and I will build a magnificent kingdom.
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May 12, 2014 17:28
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:I though the undead curse appeared precisely because Gwyn refused to let the Fire wane, and instead stoked it himself, prolonging the Age of Fire rather than letting the world pass naturally into the Age of Dark, as it was meant to. It's not clear what would've happened if the world had been allowed to go Dark, nor what that would've meant exactly... sometimes it's presented as a kinda-good "mankind takes hold of its own destiny and is no longer ruled by the gods" type scenario, but then again there's Manus and Kaathe and all their shady as poo poo business. Whether it's true or not isn't important, the intro as portrayed paints a picture of undead curse getting out of control=consequence of ever dwindling First Flame. And I suppose the world did seem to get on with less Undead for a time before Dark Souls 2 so maybe it's even true. The importance is in presentation. Ice Fist posted:I don't care about anybody besides Gavlan. As long as Gavlan is my subect I'll be the king and he and I will build a magnificent kingdom. I'm so glad I now am King of a kingdom consisting of a manic depressive, a laddersmith, an amnesiac armor, a zombie blacksmith, a rock lady with short term memory loss, and a super drunk dwarf. And precisely one normal person (Rosabeth).
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May 12, 2014 17:29
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Doctor Spaceman posted:I like that she reminded me that I'd found a shard, but yeah, it was stupid to hear the same poo poo over and over every time I wanted to level up or whatever. "Is that a shard you have there?" is fine, since it only happens rarely, when you have a shard. Even then she doesn't do it every time you talk to her if you don't give her the shard for whatever reason. That was great. "Seek Seek Lest" though is really dumb. Heroic Yoshimitsu posted:Not even possible through some save-editing thing? I probably wouldn't risk doing it anyway. Guess I'll go with a new character then. Its a computer so its possible, but its not going to be trivial. I tried poking around. And then yeah, even if you could, it may flag you for a ban or something who knows, so probably not worth it.
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May 12, 2014 17:30
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Ice Fist posted:I don't care about anybody besides Gavlan. As long as Gavlan is my subect I'll be the king and he and I will build a magnificent kingdom. A horrifying kingdom of undead Libertarians obsessed with naught but wheeling and dealing. Truly a fate worse than death.
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May 12, 2014 17:32
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:I though the undead curse appeared precisely because Gwyn refused to let the Fire wane, and instead stoked it himself, prolonging the Age of Fire rather than letting the world pass naturally into the Age of Dark, as it was meant to. It's not clear what would've happened if the world had been allowed to go Dark, nor what that would've meant exactly... sometimes it's presented as a kinda-good "mankind takes hold of its own destiny and is no longer ruled by the gods" type scenario, but then again there's Manus and Kaathe and all their shady as poo poo business. That's what Kaathe tells you. whether that's true or not is suspect, since in the end, both Kaathe and Frampt are manipulating you for their own, probably shared, gains. Dark Souls II suggests that that is not the case, that the curse is an intrinsic part of life itself. That it is a manifestation of life's desire of want, ultimately eroding a person's reason and having them do only that want (i.e. whatever task they were last trying to do before going Hollow). A lot of the stuff going on behind the scenes (i.e. with Vendrick and Aldia) is all stuff trying to break free from the curse/the want. Vendrick tried this by obtaining more and more souls, and ultimately failed. Aldia tried this first by creating the Emerald Herald, a mix of dragon (since true dragons represent immortality and freedom from want) and human, to end the curse. Failing this he made himself into a dragon (the Ancient Dragon in the shrine).
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May 12, 2014 17:33
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Genocyber posted:No, they both give you the exact same amount of plot (And what's given is pretty much 1:1, following the game's theme of the nature of repetition). It's not the same, though. Oscar's plot hook is "Thou who art undead, are chosen. Ring the bell, learn the fate of the undead." That's relevant. Emerald Herald just tells you straight up, Hi there, wanna be a king? I don't care if the vagueness somehow ties into the theme, it's completely unsatisfying. Even the Crestfallen Warrior says "all the undead are trying to ring those bells, might be something cool, eh" while Saulden just mopes and gives lore. Shalquior is basically unhelpful for the beginning of the game. Even later, Frampt puts you on the track to the real plot: relight the first flame and end the age of dark. Sounds like something that you, a hollow, would want. The Emerald Herald points at a zombie and says, "That's gonna be you! Still wanna be king? Great."
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May 12, 2014 17:34
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Inspector_666 posted:A horrifying kingdom of undead Libertarians obsessed with naught but wheeling and dealing. What? This would be the best thing ever. Gavlan and I would just drink and trade items ad infinitum.
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May 12, 2014 17:35
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Ice Fist posted:I don't care about anybody besides Gavlan. As long as Gavlan is my subect I'll be the king and he and I will build a magnificent kingdom. 
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May 12, 2014 17:36
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New desktop backgound at work. Thanks.
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May 12, 2014 17:37
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Ice Fist posted:What? This would be the best thing ever. Gavlan and I would just drink and trade items ad infinitum. I'm imagining the Business Zombies from Adventure Time. Which actually would be pretty OK anyway.
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May 12, 2014 17:37
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HellCopter posted:It's not the same, though. Oscar's plot hook is "Thou who art undead, are chosen. Ring the bell, learn the fate of the undead." That's relevant. Except it ends up the whole ringing the bells thing was kinda a macguffin anyways and that wasn't the fate of the undead so much? Its just as complex / ambiguous as 2. Look, if you wanna find things to bitch about with 2, you can. And if you wanna find things you like in 1, you can. But that doesn't mean 2 is objectively worse. You can do the same thing in reverse, I could focus on 2's strengths and 1's weaknesses, wouldn't prove anything. If anything, Dark Souls 1 is overly videogamey; its just 'go find the 2 magic bells, ring those, oh you did that? Now go kill the 4 big bad bosses, then you'll access the final level and the end credits' Dark Souls 2 is better, you're a dude who was cursed, the whole land is falling into ruin and amnesia like Big-O or something, you're trying to figure out how to hold onto your humanity and piece together what happened and how to preserve or undo it... If you think Emerald Herald's dialogue was infinitely worse than Frampt's though, you didn't stop and read it. Its the same poo poo. quote:Very well. Then I am pleased to share. quote:Bearer of the curse... Seek souls. Its not nearly as loving different as you're making it out to be. 2 is pretty much the same goddamned stuff just remixed. Also lets not forget Frampt's golden moments quote:Hraaaoogggh! Voiced by Futurama Nixon. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 17:45 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 17:40
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I guess I just don't get why some of you consider "ring two bells so something good might happen" to be a stronger goal than "kill 4 dudes to obtain their souls and not go crazy".Zaphod42 posted:Also lets not forget Frampt's golden moments Frampt is a chill snake buddy though, and his goofiness is endearing. The Herald is just a boring anime robot. Also I don't need to talk to Frampt every drat time I want to level up. EDIT: I miss Frampt 
Internet Kraken fucked around with this message at 17:46 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 17:43
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I really think there's just one thing missing from DS2 that I'd really like to see, and that's an explanation of what the heck succeeding the king is actually supposed to do. Even if Frampt and Kaathe are both liars with their serpentine tube-pants a constant grossly incandescent inferno, I still get what I'm doing in DS1. I'm linking the fires, allowing the Age of Fire to continue. I don't know exactly what that means, but I'm getting the point. In DS2, I... sit on a throne. And then what? What does that mean? Is anything changing? Do I have a bunch of power now or am I just locked in a room for no reason? I don't seem more powerful than I was a moment ago.
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May 12, 2014 17:43
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Zaphod42 posted:Except it ends up the whole ringing the bells thing was kinda a macguffin anyways and that wasn't the fate of the undead so much? Its just as complex / ambiguous as 2. No, it IS different for reasons that have already been made abundantly clear. We know what succeeding Gwyn and linking the fire means. Becoming the new monarch of Drangleic (which is dead and depopulated) has no apparent meaning. That Frampt keeps from you the "you're going to die" part doesn't make the relevance of his path any less obvious. Internet Kraken posted:I guess I just don't get why some of you consider "ring two bells so something good might happen" to be a stronger goal than "kill 4 dudes to obtain their souls and not go crazy". Probably because after you ring the bells you get a better explanation on what to do. You never really get your goal clarified in any real sense in 2. Captain Oblivious fucked around with this message at 17:47 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 17:44
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Internet Kraken posted:I guess I just don't get why some of you consider "ring two bells so something good might happen" to be a stronger goal than "kill 4 dudes to obtain their souls and not go crazy". Because at no point does anybody say that killing 4 dudes will stop you from going crazy. In fact, the Emerald Herald makes it quite clear that you're hosed no matter what. In response to Zaphod42, Hyper Crab Tank posted:I really think there's just one thing missing from DS2 that I'd really like to see, and that's an explanation of what the heck succeeding the king is actually supposed to do. Even if Frampt and Kaathe are both liars with their serpentine tube-pants a constant grossly incandescent inferno, I still get what I'm doing in DS1. I'm linking the fires, allowing the Age of Fire to continue. I don't know exactly what that means, but I'm getting the point. In DS2, I... sit on a throne. And then what? What does that mean? Is anything changing? Do I have a bunch of power now or am I just locked in a room for no reason? I don't seem more powerful than I was a moment ago. Basically that. I can approve of replacing Frampt with a girl that does not make horrible teeth-chomping noises. That sound gives me goosebumps.
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May 12, 2014 17:45
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Captain Oblivious posted:Probably because after you ring the bells you get a better explanation on what to do. You never really get your goal clarified in any real sense in 2. Personally as a Gamer, and my character as an Explorer / Adventurer, wanting to just figure out what the poo poo was happening and why is a perfectly good motivation, as is self-preservation. Is everybody really thinking "oh boy, I'm gonna light the first flame and save the world!" during the second half of Dark Souls 1? Nope. Nobody gives two shits about it. Some people end up walking out of the room even without talking to Kaathe because gently caress it. The "Story" of Dark Souls 1 is really about Artorias, Ornstein, Gwyn, Gwynevere, Gwyndolin, Quelaag, Lautrec, Solaire, et al. Not about Frampt and the first flame. HellCopter posted:Because at no point does anybody say that killing 4 dudes will stop you from going crazy. In fact, the Emerald Herald makes it quite clear that you're hosed no matter what. quote:Once you have found them, return here to me. Hmmmm. The whole point of Dark Souls 1 was that you were already cursed, you were on the way out, so you decided to kinda sacrifice yourself and die over and over in the hope of saving the world, since you were already hosed. Dark Souls 2 is similar. You're cursed, its not about saving yourself so much. But since you ARE cursed, you may as well use what time you have left to try to figure out the curse of the land and see if you may sacrifice yourself to prevent it / stabilize things. Zaphod42 fucked around with this message at 17:51 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 17:48
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Captain Oblivious posted:Probably because after you ring the bells you get a better explanation on what to do. You never really get your goal clarified in any real sense in 2. You don't get a better explanation though. You get a load of obvious bullshit fed to you by a magical serpent. You never get told what restarting the age of fire will do exactly, other than it will be vaguely good. That's hardly a strong motivation unless you just follow whatever Frampt says without question. HellCopter posted:Because at no point does anybody say that killing 4 dudes will stop you from going crazy. In fact, the Emerald Herald makes it quite clear that you're hosed no matter what. Watch the intro again. It literally says Drangleic is place where "souls can mend your ailing mind". You're operating under the impression that obtaining more powerful souls will stave off the curse Of course that doesn't turn out to be the complete truth, but that applies to literally every Souls game. And you're not saving Drangleic. Drangleic is hosed. Drangleic is dead and gone, you're just rooting through the corpse. The most reasonable conclusion you could draw from the ending would be that you're going to build your own kingdom from the ashes. You know, what the game says has happened over and over and over.
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May 12, 2014 17:49
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Dear gang: which is the best of the greathammers? I have pretty much all of them, I just dunno which turns out best in the end.
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May 12, 2014 17:51
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I like how the player is sticking to his own sunny D.
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May 12, 2014 17:52
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Mindblast posted:I like how the player is sticking to his own sunny D. If there was an item called Booze ingame that tanked your agility or someshit I would have my guy drink it regardless.
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May 12, 2014 17:57
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Artificer posted:If there was an item called Booze ingame that tanked your agility or someshit I would have my guy drink it regardless. Dark Souls with Fallout items...
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May 12, 2014 18:02
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Internet Kraken posted:You don't get a better explanation though. You get a load of obvious bullshit fed to you by a magical serpent. You never get told what restarting the age of fire will do exactly, other than it will be vaguely good. That's hardly a strong motivation unless you just follow whatever Frampt says without question. Whether or not, and to what extent if so, Frampt was lying is still in question actually. There is reason to doubt his motives but you're claiming everything he said to us was a pack of lies and there's still no objective proof of that. All of the most obvious signs in Dark Souls 1 suggest that relighting the First Flame pertains to halting the degeneracy of the world and the progression of the Curse. This isn't rocket science. Meanwhile in Dark Souls 2, as you say, we eat some souls. Great. Temporary fix that only affects us personally. Where does sitting on some meaningless rock throne figure in? Why would I care in particular about building my own kingdom when I'm just going to forget more and more and go hollow? Building a Kingdom sort of takes time and people, neither of which I have reason to believe that I really have.
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May 12, 2014 18:02
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Inspector_666 posted:Dark Souls with Fallout Oh you just say that to all the pretty girls you handsome devil you.  Real world Post-Nuclear Adventure Souls would be an interesting romp. Imagine all of the steel girders one would have to cross to get that soul precariously perched at the end of it above a radioactive pit.Within eyesight of at least three archers.
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May 12, 2014 18:06
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Ulvirich posted:Oh you just say that to all the pretty girls you handsome devil you. Well I mean, having a Laser Rifle would even those odds a bit, I think.
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May 12, 2014 18:06
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Inspector_666 posted:Well I mean, having a Laser Rifle would even those odds a bit, I think. And to complement in true Dark Souls spirit, they all have Gatling lasers.
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May 12, 2014 18:07
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:If this Dark Souls II wiki page is to be believed From actually cut a lot of dialogue from the Emerald Herald that gave much clearer directions than what we got in-game. No idea why they would cut all those additional lines in there. So much of it helps make the narrative (and even set-piece to set-piece) a lot more cohesive while still retaining the cryptic and ambiguous story the series is praised for. Like thats literally just enough to support what being king means and why it could be a worthy goal.
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May 12, 2014 18:08
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Captain Oblivious posted:Whether or not, and to what extent if so, Frampt was lying is still in question actually. There is reason to doubt his motives but you're claiming everything he said to us was a pack of lies and there's still no objective proof of that. All of the most obvious signs in Dark Souls 1 suggest that relighting the First Flame pertains to halting the degeneracy of the world and the progression of the Curse. This isn't rocket science. I think you need to realize for a moment here that the entire souls mechanic isn't just part of the gameplay, its part of the story. By the end of Dark Souls, you are literally a demigod. You have power beyond that of any other creature in the world. With that power you can do almost anything. Subjects? You'll get them, its not like your just going to sit on that throne for eternity. You also presumably have control over the golems left behind by Vendrick. He built an entire castle with them, I think you can manage to get the foundation for an empire going with their help. The one thing you can't do is prevent the eventual decay of your own mind, and thus your kingdom along with it. That's the story of Dark Souls 2. Its bleak and depressing but isn't every Souls game like that? None of them have happy endings. Whether or not you like that is another matter entirely, but Dark Souls 2 isn't unique in that regard. My only problem with the ending is that the last two boss fights are incredibly anticlimactic. I dunno, my first Dark Souls game ended with me jumping into a big fire and exploding. It didn't really feel anymore satisfying than how Dark Souls 2 ended.
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May 12, 2014 18:11
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Inspector_666 posted:Dark Souls with Fallout items... Drink vodka, + str - int. Oh no, you're addicted! Can I get some RadX for the Harvest Valley? 
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May 12, 2014 18:13
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Kill something, swing spear in the air above the corpse. I swear it takes off like 6 durability per swing. Go to the first bonfire in FoFG, aggro everything and then run into the dead-end in the little stream just before the way up. Kill the hollows there so their corpses pile up in one place then swing at the pile of corpses, and it should take durability off for each corpse.
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May 12, 2014 18:17
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Is everyone who pvps in heides tower a hacker?
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May 12, 2014 18:22
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FirstPersonShitter posted:Is everyone who pvps in heides tower a hacker? One dude invaded me in Heide's Tower and when I put my shield up and just started walking at him, he rolled backwards right off a ledge. So at least one guy isn't.
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May 12, 2014 18:25
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Does the Painting Guardian drop only one of each piece of the Monastery set, or am I going to have to worry about possibly getting duplicates to make farming the Monastery Scimitar even more of a pain in the rear end?
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May 12, 2014 18:25
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