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Gort posted:I've seen culture flipping happen exactly once ever, so it's really kind of difficult to say. Somehow, via everybody hating her and refusing to trade suddenly and/or banning luxuries, in my latest game (king level) Catherine ended up flipping several cities to me.
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May 12, 2014 05:44
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Been awhile since I played - any good mods come out for Civ 5 yet? When I last played, the AI was really vulnerable to diplomatic losses, as it wouldn't use its gold aggressively to court city states (particularly on higher difficulties, where it always seemed to have an abundance of gold). Has that changed, or was the last 'fall patch' the last major patch from Firaxis?
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May 12, 2014 07:46
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victrix posted:Been awhile since I played - any good mods come out for Civ 5 yet? Not that improve the AI, no.
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May 12, 2014 07:53
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Fhqwhgads posted:I was playing an Emperor game as Venice the other day, and Rome was running away with its continent to the point where they were rebelliously unhappy (I had Freedom, they didn't), and I did get culture flipped two cities. They had a huge rebellion problem, and one of the cities that flipped was their second city. It surprised me the first time I was asked to annex/puppet/raze. I wasn't at war, and I know I didn't attack a city. I was very very far from dominant culture on Rome, as well. They were just so ludicrously unhappy that I guess I got lucky on two flipped cities. This is why I don't play higher than Emperor. It's pretty much the final difficulty level where interesting things happen. Isabella was pissed that I went Freedom (she was Order). So she DOW'd and zerged a massive army from a forward city, surrounded by mountains and almost impossible to take. We fought inconclusively for a few dozen turns, and she eventually pulled the plug and sued for a white peace. The next turn, the forward city flipped to me. Except it wasn't nearly as defensible from her side, and it tanked my happiness to boot. So I sold it to my other Freedom bro (Brazil) for everything he owned. Nice buffer for me, really great 16 pop well-built city for Pedro, poke in the eye to Izzy. Win, win, win. Conversely, this one city of Shakas kept flipping to me and I kept literally giving it back to him because it was a useless city in the middle of the desert and no one else would give me so much as a dime for it. The best thing about a city flipping is that you get all of its Great Works as though you had conquered it. So even if you decide to sell it or burn it, definitely check to see if there's any in the town and move them out if there are.
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May 12, 2014 08:11
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victrix posted:Been awhile since I played - any good mods come out for Civ 5 yet? It's still the case. Certain civs will bribe all the city states (Alexander in particular) but they don't try to win that way. For example, if you bribe all the city-states before a World Leader vote, the AI won't scramble to bribe them back, they'll just sit on their gold mountains and let you win. It's one of my pet peeves with the game as well - the AI players don't know the victory conditions.
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May 12, 2014 09:01
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quote:It's one of my pet peeves with the game as well - the AI players don't know the victory conditions. Except when you get close to a space race victory, and they all team up on you and go to war for no obvious reason.
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May 12, 2014 09:04
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Vengarr posted:The best thing about a city flipping is that you get all of its Great Works as though you had conquered it. So even if you decide to sell it or burn it, definitely check to see if there's any in the town and move them out if there are. I wish that scorched earth retreats were possible. I know you can move great works instantly if you have the space for them elsewhere, but why can’t I set my own city ablaze? I can’t even pillage infrastructure in my own territory. It should take some investment, but perhaps I’m willing to do like Switzerland and prepare. The closest I can get in Civ V is to re‐capture a city. Even if I can’t hold it, switching hands twice decimates its population and buildings.
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May 12, 2014 09:27
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Platystemon posted:I wish that scorched earth retreats were possible. I know you can move great works instantly if you have the space for them elsewhere, but why can’t I set my own city ablaze? I can’t even pillage infrastructure in my own territory. You could nuke your own cities late game if you wanted. That would do the trick.
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May 12, 2014 09:35
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Platystemon posted:I wish that scorched earth retreats were possible. I know you can move great works instantly if you have the space for them elsewhere, but why can’t I set my own city ablaze? I can’t even pillage infrastructure in my own territory. You can starve it though, which reduces the pop by 1 each turn. The only difference is you have to burn through the food stockpile first and the city won't disappear after reaching 1 pop. Alternatively if you have a willing ally you can trade the city back-and-forth to ruin it and then have them finish it with a razing. Both of these seem a bit cheesey to me (in fact I reckon we should prohibit the latter in our MP games) but in the absence of a scorched earth mechanic, what can you do. Capturing a city is already a major burden though, so giving players the ability to poo poo them up first might not be the best idea without changing many other mechanics.
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May 12, 2014 09:44
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Also, letting your city get captured while you have units on standby to recapture it from the enemy immediately works. Do that a couple times and even a 30+ pop capital will be a flaming time/money sink in no time. E: Has anyone played with this hilariously overpowered Generic Civ? Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 10:55 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 10:10
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Pvt.Scott posted:E: Has anyone played with this hilariously overpowered Generic Civ? I think I'd be afraid of downloading that, playing it, and finally coming to the realisation that I play every civ the same way and nothing ever really changes except the map I'm on.
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May 12, 2014 11:16
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Pvt.Scott posted:E: Has anyone played with this hilariously overpowered Generic Civ? I will be very upset if the Defeat dialogue is not "If I don't survive, tell my wife "hello""
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May 12, 2014 11:26
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I ended up winning my Immortal Siam game that I mentioned a few pages back. As it turned out Siam's UA along with allying some Maritime city-states and a few internal trade routes made food in my mostly hills no-fresh-water capital a non-issue. I just made sure to put my artist's/writer's guilds in my second city situated on a flood plain to not strain my capital's food surplus too much. I pulled the trigger on taking Korea's capital when my declaration of friendship wore off, since it became clear that the third ally in the group Spain was going to backstab me anyway with their troops massing on my borders. So I bribed them into attacking Korea first to let them weaken each others armies, then blitzed Sejong's 14 (!!) wonder capital the moment I was able to pop out my Naresuan's Elephants. After the city's resistance was up my culture, gold, and faith generation went up by an absurd amount, which was key for me clinching the diplomatic victory later on. Since this was my first game against Korea, I have to say holy poo poo are those turtle ships of his good. Even after wiping out the majority of his land army, I had to recapture Seoul a couple of times before the war was over even after wiping out his entire land based army. Each turtle ship took a huge chunk off the city's health, and it took multiple turns to kill them even with three of my crossbows focus-firing them. In the Industrial era I ended up having to go after Montezuma, who was pushing hard for a culture win after wiping out the Maya. I managed to liberate one of Pacal's cities to recall him to life and take his former capital (keeping it for myself as a forward base on the Aztec border, not that Pacal seemed to mind.) This earned enough of Monty's great works to take my own tourism up from 4 to 26. My war with the Aztecs stalled out when Monty popped flight 8 turns ahead of me, forcing me back into friendly territory to avoid losing my ranged units. When he offered 95 gpt and 4 luxuries for peace a few turns later I jumped on that deal, and used the time to rush to nukes as fast as possible before declaring again and taking Tenochtitlan. Cinching up the remaining city-state votes I needed for World Leader (in addition to the Maya's 6 votes, which was a welcome surprise) was smooth sailing after that. I also really like Gunboat Diplomacy, since I'd gone autocracy for the policy doubles the tech stealing rate so that I could catch up on science from my early game deficit. Parking a couple of units on the border of my maritime city-states meant that I never had to worry about those flipping alliance to anyone else. I did notice, though, that a few of the city-states were stubborn about switching from resilient to afraid. How does it calculate the "overall military strength" value? I noticed that my value never seemed to increase, even after hard-building a few more units and getting several extras as gifts from my militaristic allies. Is it a comparison against the other civ's armies? Mazzagatti2Hotty fucked around with this message at 16:04 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 15:54
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Do The Evolution posted:I think I'd be afraid of downloading that, playing it, and finally coming to the realisation that I play every civ the same way and nothing ever really changes except the map I'm on. I always end up starting with science then finishing the game nuking everyone until I get bored regardless of the Civ I'm playing.
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May 12, 2014 16:05
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What are some good victory conditions/strategies for Polynesia? They were my first Civ that I ever played as (and the first Civ that I lost as due to me not recognizing Attila as a threat) and I want to play with them again.
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May 12, 2014 16:07
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Science
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May 12, 2014 16:20
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Kumaton posted:What are some good victory conditions/strategies for Polynesia? They were my first Civ that I ever played as (and the first Civ that I lost as due to me not recognizing Attila as a threat) and I want to play with them again. With the right map type/ starting location, they can be a shoe-in for culture win.
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May 12, 2014 16:25
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Do The Evolution posted:I think I'd be afraid of downloading that, playing it, and finally coming to the realisation that I play every civ the same way and nothing ever really changes except the map I'm on. Civ is a puzzle, or a board game, rather. The puzzle has been solved, mostly(Stack food, stack science and though early MAY have issues and you will be low on the charts at first, you'll eventually break their advantages and come out ahead). The 'right way' has been handed down and it's hard to break from that unless the civ's massively, dramatically different-which ain't really happened yet. In the majority of cases, even the 'massively overpowered' cases, they're still what you'd regard as 'pretty much the same'. You're all still playing the same game(Insert AI quip here, but it is still true, despite the bonuses). I sound depressing, I guess. Perhaps I am un-inventive, but I'm not sure how'd you'd honestly and truly shake it up.
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May 12, 2014 16:50
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Bloodly posted:I sound depressing, I guess. Perhaps I am un-inventive, but I'm not sure how'd you'd honestly and truly shake it up. I was thinking about this earlier, and my inclination is to say that the unique attributes for each civ need to be a lot stronger and more "global" (lasting for more of the game). In particular, there needs to be less of a focus on unique units that are marginally better than their base units for a brief period before going obsolete.
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May 12, 2014 17:06
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I was thinking about this earlier, and my inclination is to say that the unique attributes for each civ need to be a lot stronger and more "global" (lasting for more of the game). In particular, there needs to be less of a focus on unique units that are marginally better than their base units for a brief period before going obsolete. I think it would be great if early UU's had mild bonuses that carried over to subsequent upgrades while later UU's had more powerful bonuses to make up for not being available early.
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May 12, 2014 17:21
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How do those of you who use temples prioritize them, assuming they're not your civ's unique building? I've found that I rarely build temples, even when I'm wanting to spread my religion, simply because there always seems to be another building I feel like I need more. In the early game it's libraries or markets, then workshops or coliseums, then banks or factories. Even when I have enough gold to buy a building, I usually can't resist the temptation to buy one of those buildings first. I always play on Standard speed. On longer gamespeeds do you generally have more time to build the buildings from each era, or does the increased production time make it a wash? Mazzagatti2Hotty fucked around with this message at 17:33 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 17:30
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:How do those of you who use temples prioritize them, assuming they're not your civ's unique building? I've found that I rarely build temples, even when I'm wanting to spread my religion, simply because there always seems to be another building I feel like I need more. In the early game it's libraries or markets, then workshops or coliseum's, then banks or factories. Even when I have enough gold to buy a building, I usually can't resist the temptation to buy one of those buildings first. I've found that they generally aren't worth it unless you've built your second city pretty early and prioritize a shrine. On immortal, I'll get ganked for religion by like 30 turns with just a shrine and temple, or i'll get it because i befriend a religious city state/get a faith pantheon/faith ancient ruins. Just building a temple and shrine is usually not enough to secure a religion. As to the game speed. You typically will produce buildings slightly faster in my experience if you can get some workers going, it's mostly scaled well though, not a huge difference. When you get into really high production you will produce faster since the shortest production time is 1 turn but by then the game is usually won or lost. dayman fucked around with this message at 17:38 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 17:34
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Not especially highly, and this is someone who uses Feed The World more often than not, and even when it's a unique building. It's a case of 'when I can get around to it', via production or gold. But then, I are a dumb King Player with way too many mods.
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May 12, 2014 17:34
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Unless my religious belief/civ perk (ie happiness) has something to do with temples, I usually don't build them as there's usually other buildings to purchase or build like as you say in your example.
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May 12, 2014 17:35
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Platystemon posted:I wish that scorched earth retreats were possible. I know you can move great works instantly if you have the space for them elsewhere, but why can’t I set my own city ablaze? I can’t even pillage infrastructure in my own territory. I sort of did that in a recent game where I had a huge war with Germany. I was bogged down in a land war with Bismarck, so I sent a naval detachment to take one of his coastal cities with the intention of keeping it and using it as a beachhead. He took it back with some units that had been hidden in darkened tiles, so instead of trying to keep it again I used the surviving landship I had to pillage the poo poo out of the area and then recaptured the city with my navy to hold it just long enough to raze it.
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May 12, 2014 19:00
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I see city flips due to culture all the time whenever I go for a culture victory, always playing on emperor, so I'm not sure why people are saying they never see it happen. Well, you can't just sit around and hope it happens (although that works on occasion), it's like a military city conquering where you have to plan and work towards it. Typically I wait a bit and see which civs have the lowest culture output, target them with trade routes/open borders to start pumping up tourism on them and hope some pious jerk converts you all to the same religion, and make sure they don't get city state allies to keep their happiness and culture to a minimum. Come ideologies, get yours voted as the world one, and watch their happiness plummet and get some puppets. Not really sure if it's optimal in any way but it's more satisfying than doing anything that involves military units, the combat in this game being tedious poo poo and all.
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May 12, 2014 19:17
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Mazzagatti2Hotty posted:Since this was my first game against Korea, I have to say holy poo poo are those turtle ships of his good. Even after wiping out the majority of his land army, I had to recapture Seoul a couple of times before the war was over even after wiping out his entire land based army. Each turtle ship took a huge chunk off the city's health, and it took multiple turns to kill them even with three of my crossbows focus-firing them.
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May 12, 2014 19:27
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Well, it's not like the historical turtle ships were good for much other than driving off a naval invasion.
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May 12, 2014 19:29
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Poil posted:Personally I've found turtle ships to be garbage. Sure they're strong but outside of special situations like yours they are always worse than a regular caravel. Especially after the patch that turned them from weaker frigates to supercharged triremes. But that might just be me. I'd like ships better if they could immediately embark over the ocean. Also wish more oil was out in the middle of the ocean but just needs a work boat on top of it to harvest, not a sphere of influence.
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May 12, 2014 19:29
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Pvt.Scott posted:Also, letting your city get captured while you have units on standby to recapture it from the enemy immediately works. Do that a couple times and even a 30+ pop capital will be a flaming time/money sink in no time. The leader screen background with the Windows XP default background is a nice touch.
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May 12, 2014 19:58
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This weekend was the first time I've seen the Civ I was playing come up as an AI Civ also (i.e. I'm playing the Aztecs, and meet the Aztecs), and it happened in three different games. Is this new, or am I just a living example of the utility of anecdotal evidence?
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May 12, 2014 20:09
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Yessod posted:This weekend was the first time I've seen the Civ I was playing come up as an AI Civ also (i.e. I'm playing the Aztecs, and meet the Aztecs), and it happened in three different games. Is this new, or am I just a living example of the utility of anecdotal evidence? Are you playing with any mods? That shouldn't be possible in an unmodded game.
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May 12, 2014 20:20
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It's possible(I presume), but seriously unlikely unless you've changed the start settings in Advanced Start Options to force the point.
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May 12, 2014 20:31
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canyoneer posted:The leader screen background with the Windows XP default background is a nice touch. I'm particularly fond of the info available in the Civlopedia entry on Generic Civ under Another Heading, "there is at least one living in your house right now."
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May 12, 2014 20:37
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Thanks for the responses on the Temple question, I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing out on some major benefit by skipping them. (As an example of this, I really didn't know that I should make sure to build granaries until reading this thread and realizing how important growth is for the higher difficulties.)Poil posted:Personally I've found turtle ships to be garbage. Sure they're strong but outside of special situations like yours they are always worse than a regular caravel. Especially after the patch that turned them from weaker frigates to supercharged triremes. But that might just be me. Ah, so they're a replacement for Caravels? And they can't move out into ocean tiles? That changes my opinion quite a bit. Seems like a bizarre choice if that's the case.
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May 12, 2014 20:42
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Korea does best if they're isolationist as hell and just building coastal cities to send food to its cities, so a terrible exploration boat almost makes sense.
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May 12, 2014 20:45
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Of course, almost every civ 'should' be doing that.
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May 12, 2014 20:50
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Bloodly posted:Of course, almost every civ 'should' be doing that. Which sucks because the best thing about friends is nuking them
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May 12, 2014 21:01
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Doltos posted:Which sucks because the best thing about friends is nuking them I can do that after i accrue a massive tech lead
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May 12, 2014 21:03
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I'm too wussy, I guess. I can't bear war at all. Only part of it is the sheer slog, annoyance, hatred, etc. Even with a race that can eat towns in a single turn, I can't bear to DO it.
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May 12, 2014 21:04
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