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Paramemetic, your posts in this thread have been really great. How do people in this thread feel about caffeine? Do you lump it with other intoxicants like alcohol? Personally, I feel like the direction practicing is taking me in is towards simply accepting when I'm physically tired anyway, but I'm just curious to hear people's attitudes. mcustic posted:What are you talking about? He literally said that the goatman's gaping rear end was the emptiness Buddha had been teaching about. Yes, that post was a bad goatman joke but to be fair I did encourage ThePriceJustWentUp earlier in the thread. A couple of his posts were part of a chain of causality that led to a personal breakthrough (it wasn't enlightenment or anything like that) for me in late 2013 and I felt like saying thanks when he reappeared in the tread was an appropriate bookend.
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May 12, 2014 23:24
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Getting up before others is a very good idea, but while practical for cumshot in the dark, I know the kind of awkwardness shnooks is talking about- The dharma should not be a chore. It should be something that we can turn to as a refuge when things get tough. I know through other conversations that a sangha is not feasible for you. In these cases it might be best to rely upon an affirmation of refuge in the triple gem. Just live life until such time as your practise can reap more fruit. Some things I would strongly recommend for people in this situation is to keep some sort of shrine set up, a sacred space no matter how small or grandiose. It could be just as simple as a light before a small postercard of the buddha. Just some quick bowing in the morning, turning on the ligh or lighting the candle. maybe an incense offering. Counting mala is also a great and fairly innocuous thing to do. With some preparatory practise of getting comfortable with these mantras, recitation becomes both a propitiatory action and a meditation. Proclaim the hridaya prajnaparamita mantra and know emptiness and all. This is also good for when you are on vacation. Plus malas not only serve as an outward reminder and signifier of faith, they can look totally ballin'. Example of a dirt-basic shrine anyone can set up.  Vladimir Poutine posted:Paramemetic, your posts in this thread have been really great. EDIT: If the buddhadharma forbade caffeine, and by extension tea, many monks would explode. It is good that beginner meditators not rely too heavily on it, and some teachers will require a renunciation of caffeine for novitiates because it can lead to over-dependence. If you are drinking it to such excess that it is causing problems- it likely needs to be addressed, but for other reasons. Tobacco, as an example, can make someone feel woozy, off their feet. Hookah bars are agood example of how it can cause heedlessness. Caffeine intoxication just makes someone feel like crap, though they are still heedful. Caffeine can be useful in the practise of dharma, it can be enjoyable- it is not essential, nor is it inherently harmful. It is a vehicle and expedient means perhaps. Quantumfate fucked around with this message at 23:40 on May 12, 2014 |
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May 12, 2014 23:30
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Thanks Quantumfate for your response earlier, but I have some questions on a point. It's kind of nitpicky so I tried to PM you, but you can't receive PMs? I don't know.Quantumfate posted:There is a reason that mantras are rarely translated (and indeed you might do best to learn the surangama in sanskrit so as to keep the dharma alive). I started learning the mantra from Hsuan Hua's version, which I first thought might be Chinese but I really have no idea (it starts, "na mwo sa dan two"). I only have 12 lines down and comparing it to Sanskrit, it's a lot simpler. That said, I have no problem starting over but I'd like some clarification on the matter. First of all, what about Sanskrit keeps the dharma alive as compared to Chinese, English, or any other language? Even if it's better not to know the meaning of a mantra, is it nevertheless better to recite the mantra with its native sounds and even its native meaning? I'm more curious on this point, but maybe I misread you there. Secondly, is there any particular Sanskrit version you prefer or are using? The one I C/P'd starts: NAMO SARVA TATHAGATA SUGATAYA ARHATE SAMYAK-SAMBUDDHAYA. I mention this because I'm not sure if the order of the lines matter or not, as it might be different in different versions. Thirdly, it must be somewhat important to be pronounce the text faithfully. I can figure it out but if you have any pointers on speaking Sanskrit that'd be great.
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May 13, 2014 01:42
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Vladimir Poutine posted:Paramemetic, your posts in this thread have been really great. Thanks, a lot of you guys seem to be saying this. I don't know much, but I hope I am adequately relaying what I've learned from my excellent teacher. quote:How do people in this thread feel about caffeine? Do you lump it with other intoxicants like alcohol? Personally, I feel like the direction practicing is taking me in is towards simply accepting when I'm physically tired anyway, but I'm just curious to hear people's attitudes. In The Guru's Pith Instruction Revealed through Experience: The Visualization of Calm Abiding in Mahamudra, it is written, quote:If this also fails to eliminate sinking, some other methods are: to sit in front of a window, to splash cold water on the face, to drink some good quality Chinese tea. . . So it is certainly not considered forbidden, and not lumped in with other intoxicants. I think instead it would be considered like a medicine, when used like one. The sickness caffeine treats is tiredness and fogginess of mind. When taken because it makes us feel good, or because we like the feeling of alertness, or so on, then this would be a problem I suppose, but usually alertness and awareness are good. It is not good to rely on a crutch, but even the great masters, seen here, advocate using it in meditation practice if our mind is sinking. Accepting when you're physically tired is good, but not always great. For example, I drive mobile ICUs on an overnight shift. I cannot simply accept when I'm tired, I have to be able to function. And, in the example above, even the great masters have said that while tiredness does come naturally, when it interrupts our practice (and let's face it, just sitting commonly does lead to mental sluggishness and sleepiness), have taught that after other methods have been applied, sometimes a dude's just gotta drink some tea. (My master actually suggest Starbuck's coffee. He could probably get money for an endorsement spot, haha) Paramemetic fucked around with this message at 04:34 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 04:17
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I am stepping very slowly into this thread, in hopes that I may better understand what I can learn from this path as a possible way out of a life saddled with poor anger management, depression, and judgement of others. I should also mention that I have decided that in dealing with my marriage, I have decided that rather than worrying about my wife's personality and whether it is that or simply her behavior and mine causing stress, I am first and foremost going to heal myself. Couple of questions: 1. Practicing and nonpracticing spouses: what are your thoughts? My wife has always been open, curious, and admiring of this tradition, but still also remains hesitant due to potential parental disappointment (I once did as well). I do not expect that she would join me, not do I want to push the issue. Can it work? Obviously using Buddhism to fix a marriage is foolish. I'm just looking to repair myself first, as I cannot repair someone else. The rest flows organically from that. 2. Has anyone here raised children as followers, or were you raised as a follower? Did you feel it was helpful and in what ways? 3. My town has one real center. It's one of the "cult" groups (SGI). Suggestions for connecting with others if I cannot find another local group?
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May 13, 2014 06:01
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I don't mean to push you in any direction, but it sounds like you're looking for a panacea for personal issues. Buddhism can definitely help with it, but Buddhism is also not just that -- if you are looking for a secular approach, you may want to search for "mindfulness" based therapies or groups. It is a system of meditative and integrated practice based on Buddhist meditation that has become popular in clinical psychology. Personally, that is how I got into Buddhism -- I started with some completely secular resources. The Mindful Way Through Depression introduced me to Jon Kabat-Zinn and, at least personally, was very helpful in my life. After positive results of meditative practice began obviously manifesting for me, I began looking into the tenets of Buddhism and saw how the eightfold path was a more integrated version of what mindfulness was teaching, and how the noble truths were a more clear, straightforward and universal affirmation of the personal philosophy mindfulness encourages. Are you looking for a religion or for help with personal issues?
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May 13, 2014 13:21
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ashgromnies posted:
They're the same thing. Belief is absolutely useless. Self improvement is absolutely useless. Only by negating everything that can be expressed and conceived can you find the integrity underneath, that was always there, that was fueling the very unexamined drive of karma. Like a man paddling in a canoe assuming he is propelling it until he looks back and sees a boat engine on the back moving him along. Then he just puts his paddle down and steers. It's all in the Heart Sutra.
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May 13, 2014 13:46
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ThePriceJustWentUp posted:They're the same thing. Belief is absolutely useless. Self improvement is absolutely useless. Only by negating everything that can be expressed and conceived can you find the integrity underneath, that was always there, that was fueling the very unexamined drive of karma. Like a man paddling in a canoe assuming he is propelling it until he looks back and sees a boat engine on the back moving him along. Then he just puts his paddle down and steers. It's all in the Heart Sutra. I don't get how that is going to help De Nomolos out in his current situation, but whatever. Sit and meditate for twenty minutes.
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May 13, 2014 14:02
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ThePriceJustWentUp posted:They're the same thing. Belief is absolutely useless. Self improvement is absolutely useless. Only by negating everything that can be expressed and conceived can you find the integrity underneath, that was always there, that was fueling the very unexamined drive of karma. Like a man paddling in a canoe assuming he is propelling it until he looks back and sees a boat engine on the back moving him along. Then he just puts his paddle down and steers. It's all in the Heart Sutra. You can't say belief is useless or self improvement is useless. Well you can say it but it's wrong. Belief is a structure that many people need. No judgement. You cannot just negate your karma, you can however make it transparent so it allows emptiness. There are a few very powerful minds in history who were able to just sit and achieve the absolute stillness pretty much in one shot...anomalies, they are /yoda.
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May 13, 2014 14:40
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De Nomolos posted:I am stepping very slowly into this thread, in hopes that I may better understand what I can learn from this path as a possible way out of a life saddled with poor anger management, depression, and judgement of others. I should also mention that I have decided that in dealing with my marriage, I have decided that rather than worrying about my wife's personality and whether it is that or simply her behavior and mine causing stress, I am first and foremost going to heal myself. If you are in fact dealing with (among other things) depression and marital difficulties, and if you also have children, I would strongly suggest you consider therapy (for yourself) (and medication if that is appropriate) and marital counseling. I think I can safely say that Buddhism is a wonderful path, but it is not therapy or counseling. Relatedly, given that you are dealing with these issues, you should consider opening an EN thread, in addition to pursuing your questions about Buddhism in this one. Best of luck to you.
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May 13, 2014 18:29
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This is a bummer -- I've ignored him and I still see TPJWU's word garbage. Is that a good word for it? "Emptiness posing"? "Superiority complex"? ThePriceJustWentUp's bullshit is bad "advice" as usual, however. Telling someone who is getting into Buddhism, concerned with personal issues, and navigating some pretty serious issues with their spouse that everything is useless except the Heart Sutra is idiotic at best. Irresponsible at worst (but he has made it standard practice to say irresponsible stuff in this thread). Starting to read about Buddhism and wanting to be happier is "self improvement". Getting yourself into a better state to be able to practice is "self improvement". Not that bullshit Oprah self improvement but real self improvement. Some people need to "believe" something to even start on the path because we're so conditioned to take everything with a pound of salt. Hell, Buddhist texts talk about "belief" and "faith" all the time. TPJWU, please just shut the gently caress up already. You're really really not helping. De Nomolos, here's my take: - Doing this whole thing on your own, without having a spouse who is even slightly interested, with be pretty tough. The first year of reading, meditation and classes changed how I thought about everything. And I do mean everything. My wife was raised Buddhist since she was born so I was lucky in that respect but re-evaluating everything with an uninterested spouse is bound to cause a little friction. If she's supportive, you're probably in OK shape but if she doesn't understand what you're doing, why you're doing it or wondering why there are stacks of books on emptiness sitting around, it could lead to some friction. If she sees that you're feeling happier and interested in something profound, she may get interested enough to start meditating with you. That's a good start. - My wife, as I said above, has been Buddhist since she was born. She's one of the happiest, least dramatic people I've ever known. Her mom is super cool too. - We found our group by pure luck so avoid the cult-y groups, keep reading, and take another look around in 6 months or so. Hopefully you'll find one. If not, widen your search area. We've driven 3 hours away to take a weekend course and I'm sure others travel much farther. Good luck.
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May 13, 2014 18:30
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De Nomolos posted:I am stepping very slowly into this thread, in hopes that I may better understand what I can learn from this path as a possible way out of a life saddled with poor anger management, depression, and judgement of others. Without going into a lot of detail, and without knowing a lot of specifics about your situation, I can say that practicing Buddhism was probably most helpful to me in these exact areas. Meditation (especially the Brahma-viharas) are a good way to calm the mind and generate genuine feelings of good-will and compassion. The results are noticeable fairly quickly and you can observe changes in your thoughts and behavior in a very real way. In my case, I found that I was able to think more clearly about how I was reacting to things that caused me pain or grief.
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May 13, 2014 19:07
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Thanks for the response. I'm not going the e/n route right now because I know what's wrong. What I am looking to do is learn for myself. I have been in therapy even before we met. I also take medication. However, there are some behaviors that I haven't had much of a breakthrough with yet just dealing with conventional therapy. Mindfulness therapy was mentioned. I have been reading about this exact thing for years now, mostly through Thich Nhat Hanh. I've also long been an admirer of Thomas Merton, as a catholic. I don't dislike or reject Christianity as a belief, but I feel that it has still left me certainly wanting more. It has left me unable to deal properly with my emotions. There have been periods of my life when I have been more mindful and in turn happier and less concerned with certain worldly weights. I don't want to say I can just recapture that, but I would like to dig deeper into it. When I have been in this mindset, my wife has found it frustrating (she can be very openly emotional and expressive, and this makes me more quiet and withdrawn) at first, but eventually I feel that she's understood how it makes me happy when I can recapture that, and she's curious about it for herself. Her own work and family stresses seem to be an obstacle at this time. Seeing as how I am already familiar with mindfulness as a therapy tactic, where would you suggest going from here?
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May 13, 2014 19:41
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De Nomolos posted:I am stepping very slowly into this thread, in hopes that I may better understand what I can learn from this path as a possible way out of a life saddled with poor anger management, depression, and judgement of others. I should also mention that I have decided that in dealing with my marriage, I have decided that rather than worrying about my wife's personality and whether it is that or simply her behavior and mine causing stress, I am first and foremost going to heal myself.  I also got into Buddhism via mindfulness and Jon Kabat-Zinn. My whole journey started with this google talk video of Jon Kabat-Zinn talking about mindfulness, it includes a guided meditation. I personally practiced secular mindfulness without a group, and I practiced Buddhism without a group, though it's probably wise to find a group eventually, there's nothing wrong with checking stuff out by yourself. Buddhism works, that's why it's so great. Instead of seeing a therapist, be your own therapist! Also, there's plenty of guided meditations to be found online, you don't need a group to meditate. If you make some positive changes to yourself, that's going to rub off on those around you and change them in positive ways too. Edit: De Nomolos posted:Seeing as how I am already familiar with mindfulness as a therapy tactic, where would you suggest going from here? Rhymenoceros fucked around with this message at 19:56 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 19:50
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De Nomolos posted:
Even if you don't decide to take on Buddhism as a whole, a meditation practice can be really helpful for what you are describing. In your case, the Brahmaviharas can be used to facilitate and develop mental states that can act as an antidote for anger and ill-will toward others, depression, etc. One of the most popular forms of this is metta meditation, so you can find some pretty good guided metta meditations to do on your own if you aren't able to find a center near you.
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May 13, 2014 20:01
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De Nomolos posted:I am stepping very slowly into this thread, in hopes that I may better understand what I can learn from this path as a possible way out of a life saddled with poor anger management, depression, and judgement of others. I should also mention that I have decided that in dealing with my marriage, I have decided that rather than worrying about my wife's personality and whether it is that or simply her behavior and mine causing stress, I am first and foremost going to heal myself. From a therapeutic perspective, this is an excellent decision. The only mind you have any control over is your own, so even if every single problem in your life is caused by someone else's decisions, you cannot change them, you cannot address those. You can only address how you yourself handle those things. As Albert Ellis was fond of quoting of Epictetus, "it is not things that disturb us, but the view we take of them." This is an excellent decision for you to have made and I congratulate you on it. quote:Couple of questions: Using Buddhism to fix anything is not foolish, even a marriage. The path of cessation of suffering does just that. That said, it's not necessarily the most expedient tool. However, practicing Dharma to help oneself, that is not foolish but indeed very wise. If your wife is the type to think that Buddhism is witchcraft or something like that, I suspect you'll have problems. If your wife is not overly concerned with spiritual practice, I doubt there will be any problem. Practicing Buddhism does not need to be all candles and shrines and incense. It can be done with nothing at all, at its most fundamental level. Many people who keep shrines keep them in cabinets, so that they can be closed up so as not to perturb non-Buddhists who may visit. So no, I don't think Buddhist practice would be necessarily disturbing or problematic to your wife at all. My wife had no interested in this path, but has slowly slowly adopted some practices, simply because it is the nature of Dharma that actions have predictable results, and practicing any aspect of Dharma necessarily results in less suffering. quote:2. Has anyone here raised children as followers, or were you raised as a follower? Did you feel it was helpful and in what ways? No help here, I'm sorry. I think a few people in this thread were raised as followers in the West, maybe they will comment here. I have met Buddhist children who range from engaged in practice to disinterested and vaguely tolerant, same as any child in any tradition. There really can't be any harm done to a child, raising them to practice nonviolence and compassion. It is difficult of course to teach very young children things like renunciation, because biologically they are still driven to explore and be possessive. Ultimately, I think raising one's children in one's own tradition, but with the idea that they are welcome to check out any other tradition, or none, and will be supported, is the best way to raise children. Give them a "default" but let them know that you will support them in their development no matter what way they choose to live, thus empowering them to find their own peace. quote:3. My town has one real center. It's one of the "cult" groups (SGI). Suggestions for connecting with others if I cannot find another local group? If you let me know where you are via PM I can do some investigating in a few different traditions for something nearby to you. I am not terribly familiar with SGI-USA, but my understanding is that their approach to the path is controversial, and largely based on chanting mantra and chanting mantra only, with the higher level teachings kept utterly behind closed doors. I cannot speak directly against them at all but I would be leery of going there for an introduction to Buddhism. Fortunately, one does not need any kind of group to begin practicing lovingkindness and compassion, or even to begin meditating, simply sitting and cultivating single pointed focus.
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May 13, 2014 20:18
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This is all wonderful advice. Any good introductory podcasts you could suggest? I'm about to make a 4 hour drive tonight.
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May 13, 2014 20:42
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De Nomolos posted:This is all wonderful advice. Any good introductory podcasts you could suggest? I'm about to make a 4 hour drive tonight. I listen to one called "Abhayahiri Dhamma Talks", which is available in the iTunes store. This is from a Theravada perspective - in the Thai Forest Tradition, specifically, and the talks often focus on one's personal practice and things like gratitude, compassion, forgiveness, etc. There are also talks about meditation, and sometimes more doctrine-focused subjects, like examining the nature of suffering and that kind of thing.
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May 13, 2014 20:49
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De Nomolos posted:
Maybe, Most buddhists will worship Buddha just like any other religion, and imo over sanctify perhaps the Buddha's image. But the good thing is that in almost 90% of buddhist sects don't adhere to scripture as the literal word of god or divinity which is a big plus when you are growing up because you are not conditioned to think quite as dogmatically as say Christians or Muslim and have to waste as much time thinking so much or betting bent over blasphemy and heresy in the same way Christians and Muslims have to deal with that issue, nor do buddhists even the most traditional and rigid/orthodox denominations have such an evangelical bent the same way the other religoins do that would cause additional problems. I mean I was recently walking along the streets in Kuala Lumpur, in downtown Bukit Bintang this is a mostly muslim country, and here's this African man with his son toting along a large speaker and microphone, proclaiming Jesus is the son of God, to be saved and convert to Christianity. I can understand if you do that back in NYT or somewhere in America or a country where people maybe more amenable to open prolestyzation, but it's pretty ridiculous considering the political/social environment of Malaysia. I'm so glad that Buddhists don't do the same thing.
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May 14, 2014 20:20
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So, I've gotten to the point in learning about Buddhism where I'm interested in visiting a Sangha. I'd like to try meditation in a community environment, and learn more about Buddhism from real live people. I like the idea of Dhamma talks and learning suttas. I'm going crazy looking for a Sangha to visit. I'm in Chicago so there's no shortage of places, but every time I look one up, there's always a problem. For example, the closest place is a small Soto Zen group. Their website seems cool. But their teacher also practices reiki which is something that sets off my woo meter, and her transmission came from Taizan Maezumi, who I've read is controversial (but I don't know if that has any bearing his students). So I look at other places, and one seems cool but it is Pure Land, and that seems weird to me. Another has an abbreviation that I'm pretty sure is one of the culty ones. Another seems less open ~soul searching wasps~ like me*. And so on and so on. Pretty soon I've talked myself out visiting any of them. But maybe for a beginner, these I'm over-thinking these distinctions? Does anyone have any Chicago recommendations? *that's fine, I don't demand access to all spaces 
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May 14, 2014 23:38
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There's an affiliate of San Francisco Zen Center there that might be worth checking out; here's the link to their teacher's bio: http://www.ancientdragon.org/taigen_dan_leighton/full_bio
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May 14, 2014 23:45
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Have you considered checking out the Shambhala Center? Perhaps the fact that it was founded by Trungpa Rinpoche might bother you, but all the craziness and alcoholism from the 70's is virtually nonexistent. I attend the Shambhala Center over in Boston and it's full of incredible, brilliant, and warm people with tremendous hearts who really know their dharma. It's very practice oriented, but through their retreats and classes you'll eventually be exposed to a combination of the Shambhala terma and Buddhism. I'd highly recommend it, if the Vajrayana is a path that interests you.
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May 15, 2014 03:36
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The Dark Wind posted:Have you considered checking out the Shambhala Center? Perhaps the fact that it was founded by Trungpa Rinpoche might bother you, but all the craziness and alcoholism from the 70's is virtually nonexistent. I attend the Shambhala Center over in Boston and it's full of incredible, brilliant, and warm people with tremendous hearts who really know their dharma. It's very practice oriented, but through their retreats and classes you'll eventually be exposed to a combination of the Shambhala terma and Buddhism. I'd highly recommend it, if the Vajrayana is a path that interests you. We belong to a small Shambhala sangha near our rural hometown and the people there are aces. Kind, sweet and not to woo-woo. That has been our experience with meeting people from other Shambhala sanghas too. We've been to NYC for a class and Philly too. It's also pretty approachable which is nice.
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May 15, 2014 12:48
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Thanks for those suggestions. I may visit both and see what fits
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May 15, 2014 16:03
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Knockknees posted:Thanks for those suggestions. I may visit both and see what fits Super quick post: I'm also in Chicago and planning to visit this Dzogchen center affiliated with Chogyal Namkhai Norbu's organization soon: http://www.dzogchenchicago.org/ I was practicing Mahasi noting, choiceless awareness/mindfulness, samatha concentration, among other things previously, but after reading the following posts on DhO I've been inspired to look into Namkhai Norbu's Dzogchen teachings: http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5424997 http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5424697 The OP in both threads, Omega Point, appears to be an advanced student of Namkhai Norbu although I know nothing factual about the person. I recommend these glorious essays for those who have been following the thread; you may be interested in his Vajrayana-based criticism of Daniel Ingram and the "pragmatic dharma" movement. Popcornicus fucked around with this message at 16:54 on May 15, 2014 |
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May 15, 2014 16:52
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I found a listing for this place near me: http://www.stonemountainzendo.org Is Zen a smart place to start? I've read mixed things.
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May 15, 2014 20:18
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De Nomolos posted:I found a listing for this place near me: Zen should be a pretty easy place to start. Contact them in advance and let them know you've never sat with a Zen group before and there should be someone who will get you all sorted out on what to do and what to expect. They should walk you through every step of it. Zen was the first branch of Buddhism I explicitly/formally encountered and I found it approachable and accepting. Obviously your experience may vary and I hope it goes well. As to that specific group, I can't speak to them. They meet in a church basement which is a good sign and goes well with Zen, imo. Also, they've apparently been around for 30+ years without causing any scandals, which is a good sign, as well. Folderol posted:There's an affiliate of San Francisco Zen Center there that might be worth checking out; here's the link to their teacher's bio: That guy is a gifted translator. I've been talking to a guy who spent a bunch of years practicing with him before they both received transmission and he was recommended as a good guy to talk to about Zen. I've been intending to look him up next time I happen to be in the Chicago area.
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May 15, 2014 21:33
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Prickly Pete posted:Without going into a lot of detail, and without knowing a lot of specifics about your situation, I can say that practicing Buddhism was probably most helpful to me in these exact areas. Meditation (especially the Brahma-viharas) are a good way to calm the mind and generate genuine feelings of good-will and compassion. The results are noticeable fairly quickly and you can observe changes in your thoughts and behavior in a very real way. In my case, I found that I was able to think more clearly about how I was reacting to things that caused me pain or grief. I wanted to thank you for posting this link. I had heard of metta and equanimity but not the other two and I found the whole thing really really helpful and interesting, even though it wasn't directed at me. I find myself thinking of the brahma viharas a lot lately.
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May 18, 2014 15:18
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Here's a sermon on Buddhism and magic: http://www.abuddhistlibrary.com/Bud...upernatural.htm Address and discuss.
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May 20, 2014 01:34
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I personally like Zen responses to stuff like that...quote:Magic is in the realm of phenomena. The prajna wisdom of Buddhism is in the realm of emptiness which is everywhere, not bounded by anything. When there is experience in life, experience is magic. When there is wisdom in life, wisdom is magic. When we have different capabilities in life, those capabilities are magic. There is the truth of emptiness in life; the truth of emptiness is also magic. The wisdom of emptiness is very profound. It is not void or annihilation as most people commonly believe. Emptiness allows existence. It is the source of all phenomena. For example, because of the empty space in this lecture hall, it can accommodate us and make this lecture series possible. When our hearts are as broad as the universe, we too can have the capacity for everything. Emptiness is the most powerful force. Magic cannot compare with its boundlessness and inexhaustibility. I don't know what I would do if I could view my past lives or perform miracles or anything else. I would do the same as now, but with something that was previously weird now happening, that would quickly become mundane. Remember playing Half-Life 2, when you got the gravity gun? It was cool... for like one mission. Who cares about magic? What's magic got to do with enlightenment?
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May 20, 2014 02:22
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One point related to the discussion of magic is one my teacher has made regarding "collective karma." He has been taught, and so he teaches, that the reason we do not have things spoken of frequently in Buddhist literature, like wish-fulfilling gems and wish-fulfilling cows, is because we live in a time of degenerate karma. However, we do have the karma of "technology things," which can often have the same effects. I enjoyed that teaching as it both addressed the question of magic and the major pitfalls without being ridiculous. Very good.
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May 20, 2014 03:23
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ashgromnies posted:Who cares about magic? What's magic got to do with enlightenment? The topic of psychic powers, magic, and miracles has come up before in a few Dhamma talks I have heard, and this is basically the response given by the monks. We can sit and speculate all day about it, but it represents a tiny sliver of the Buddha's teaching, and isn't really ever brought up as something that helps with the cessation of suffering as far as I know.
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May 20, 2014 05:06
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ashgromnies posted:I personally like Zen responses to stuff like that... While Zen eschews the topic, through practicing meditation (whatever form long enough) quite a few of the Zen masters atleast i've heard are reputed to naturally obtain iddhi's through no choice of their own but only through the practice (to what extent is debatable) such as viewing past lives and so on, but of course they will not openly talk about it and keep it a secret. Certain other sects follow a different philosophy, but those that train specifically to obtain iddhi's the teachings are purposely kept obscure and at high levels transmission of knowledge kept a secret. Tibetan buddhism would be an example, they are more far-sighted than Zen practitioners, being able to choose when/where you are born to whom essentiallly solves the problem of practicing buddhism after you die. With Zen you practice the here and now, but it's only limited to one lifetime, we go through countless and countless life-times and in alot of them you will not be a buddhist.
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May 20, 2014 16:13
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ickbar posted:Tibetan buddhism would be an example, they are more far-sighted than Zen practitioners, being able to choose when/where you are born to whom essentiallly solves the problem of practicing buddhism after you die. With Zen you practice the here and now, but it's only limited to one lifetime, we go through countless and countless life-times and in alot of them you will not be a buddhist. Provided the Zen practitioner nourishes their Bodhisattva vows through practice and the generation of bodhicitta, the vows are supposed to transform the trajectory of the practitioner's future lives. In theory the bodhisattva goes on to become more enlightened and better at aiding sentient beings in each life. I think this is how bodhisattva rebirth works throughout the Mahayana. You're right that Zen doesn't have an analogue to Tibetan Buddhism's explicitly defined techniques for choosing your next birth. Paramemetic posted:One point related to the discussion of magic is one my teacher has made regarding "collective karma." He has been taught, and so he teaches, that the reason we do not have things spoken of frequently in Buddhist literature, like wish-fulfilling gems and wish-fulfilling cows, is because we live in a time of degenerate karma. However, we do have the karma of "technology things," which can often have the same effects. Someone on DhO posted awhile ago that the types of practitioners likely to have mastered the iddhis (like Ajahn Brahm) would also have a heightened sensitivity to the consequences of their actions, so they'll never use the iddhis openly on the off chance that they'd be filmed or that rumors would spread, which would attract massive unwanted attention. Here's a quote from that Ajahn Brahm talk I mentioned earlier: Ajahn Brahm posted:This is the problem called dogmatism. Sometimes when I talk about levitation, people say levitation doesn’t exist, it’s just myth. Wait until you see someone levitate! If you saw someone levitate, if the three monks here rose up about two or three feet, wouldn’t that be challenging?
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May 20, 2014 20:34
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I have heard Ajahn Brahm say some really weird stuff before and I kind of just tuned him out after a while. I used to really find his talks helpful but he spends a lot of time entertaining speculative views and talking about people being so far into meditation/jhana that they have no pulse and stop breathing and are taken to funeral homes, etc. He has a lot of good talks and is a very charismatic and helpful teacher, but this kind of thing rubs me the wrong way.
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May 20, 2014 20:49
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The wonderful thing about dharma is that Buddha taught so many different ways with so many different techniques. As a result there are many many teachers who teach different things different ways, and that is perfectly okay and good. Having different karmas, being different people, some of us need different things, or will respond to different things, based on our preconditions. How brilliant is that! I really appreciate that about dharma. For some people, very secular things are better. Very practical things. For others, maybe magic powers are more convincing. There is something for everyone, and a skillful teacher can use different methods for different students.
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May 20, 2014 22:01
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Popcornicus posted:Provided the Zen practitioner nourishes their Bodhisattva vows through practice and the generation of bodhicitta, the vows are supposed to transform the trajectory of the practitioner's future lives. In theory the bodhisattva goes on to become more enlightened and better at aiding sentient beings in each life. I think this is how bodhisattva rebirth works throughout the Mahayana. You're right that Zen doesn't have an analogue to Tibetan Buddhism's explicitly defined techniques for choosing your next birth. I can't make any assumptions myself regarding theory as there is no way to prove any of thid... but as for Tibetan buddhism the closest thing remotely to evidence is of course the Dalai Lama himself and the other Lamas that have been identified as past life incarnations. While I was referencing Tibetan buddhism, that is only just one way, there is another alternative which is a step up from that but I'll let you guys figure out what that is on your own. As for Ajahn Brahm, i'm not sure it is particularly wise to even imply you have supernatural powers unless you can back it up with proof. From my understanding, there is no western buddhist institution or center that has produced the sort of anecdotes and things I hear and read about routinely back in asia. People have on many occasions witnessed some incredible things beyond levitation such as teleportation and bi-location. I don't think the the Buddhist masters who preform such acts do so routinely, but do so on some occasions to remind people that supramundane phenomena do exist, and that the merits of pracitce isn't some kind of joke. And we're not talking just any tom, dick and harry buddhist master, when you are talking about this sort of thing to the general run of the population only a very few out of billions and billions of people are capable of iddhis at this level. The way I see it what the Buddha laid out was a general guideline, but it isn't a hard and fast to rule to prohibit displays of magic or whatever else unless it served a good purpose. ickbar fucked around with this message at 06:17 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 06:08
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Thoughts on this video? What kind of Buddhism is this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IVUq_UQ0Yv0
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May 24, 2014 14:11
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That's a new age lady who makes and sells jewelry is what kind of buddhism it is.  Specifically, mantras are powerful things. They are given to us as recitations to trick ourselves into enlightenment. Usnisasitapatra and the White Dzambhala are deities usually associated with tibetan vajrayana- very popular in new age circles. The concept of spending money to adorn the dharma is a well-grounded one. If we must make shows of wealth and fashion, certainly the dharma is the best avenue for that! But, y'know. Probably better to just support a monastery or nunnery.
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May 25, 2014 19:13
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This is pretty old but gives some indication about the NKT weirdness and how we got here. I know the whole NKT comes up once in a while and this info isn't usually all in one place https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zp0N72-uv58
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May 29, 2014 17:34
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