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I was under the general impression that you were, in fact, in those locations so long ago; your character doesn't remember because, well, hollowing. The reason the Last Giant hates you so much at the start of the game is that you aided in extincting their race, putting down their king, etc (assuming the Last Giant and the King Giant aren't in fact the same hombre) when this all went down the first time. It's not that you went into the memory of a giant (that was already dead, so how would he remember any of thiiis?) and lived out what it would be like to actually fight the giants, you did it. Likewise, a dragon's memories don't really help much if you're walking into them long, long after he's already dead. It's not the memory belonging to a dragon; it's someone's memory of a dragon. Your's. At least, that's the impression I was under. EDIT: The giant memories are all Memory of ______, the dragon is explicitly Dragon Memories. Not possessive Dragon's, just Dragon. Lunatic Sledge fucked around with this message at 09:14 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 09:11
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So the gold snake ring, jester/merchant hat and prisoner tatters are the only item drop increasing items? Because after going through an ungodly number of ascetics I've only seen one aurorous drop.
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May 13, 2014 09:15
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And Rusted Coins.
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May 13, 2014 09:16
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Lemon Curdistan posted:Unless you were a giant or a Drangleic soldier who was around a thousand years ago, it's not your memories. The flow of time is distorted and your memories are fading, the oldest ones first.
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May 13, 2014 09:18
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Nuebot posted:So the gold snake ring, jester/merchant hat and prisoner tatters are the only item drop increasing items? Because after going through an ungodly number of ascetics I've only seen one aurorous drop. Going to NG+ also increases drop rates.
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May 13, 2014 09:19
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That kinda falls apart in that you enter Drangleic at the beginning of the game, and if you'd gone hollow at any point you'd be like one of those mindless soldiers you see in the Forest. There's a difference between being hollow and undead, and if you were undead for as long as it took between the giant's memories and when the rest of the game takes place where were you getting the souls to stay sane? It might not actually be the giants/dragon's memories but it makes zero sense for them to actually be yours.
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May 13, 2014 09:21
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So are there actually hackers in this game or what? Doing bellbro invasions last night, I kept running into the same red phantom several times over. I landed some pretty sweet hits on him, lifebar down to 20% or something... and then, without even moving (let alone drinking estus), it instantly popped back to 100%. Another combo later and he was down to 20% again, and then it popped back up to full. This went on for a while until it just stuck at 100% regardless and he stabbed me to death. Later, a clusterfuck ensued when a bellbro (me), a red phantom and a blue cop all invaded the same guy simultaneously, which was actually pretty funny.
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May 13, 2014 09:23
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Manatee Cannon posted:That kinda falls apart in that you enter Drangleic at the beginning of the game, and if you'd gone hollow at any point you'd be like one of those mindless soldiers you see in the Forest. There's a difference between being hollow and undead, and if you were undead for as long as it took between the giant's memories and when the rest of the game takes place where were you getting the souls to stay sane? It might not actually be the giants/dragon's memories but it makes zero sense for them to actually be yours. Ludonarrative dissonance or whatever pretentious term GARMZ JURNALIZTS have come up with. I mean, why didn't you just use a Phoenix Down on Aeris when she did in FF7?!?
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May 13, 2014 09:23
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Manatee Cannon posted:That kinda falls apart in that you enter Drangleic at the beginning of the game, and if you'd gone hollow at any point you'd be like one of those mindless soldiers you see in the Forest. There's a difference between being hollow and undead, and if you were undead for as long as it took between the giant's memories and when the rest of the game takes place where were you getting the souls to stay sane? It might not actually be the giants/dragon's memories but it makes zero sense for them to actually be yours. Like 90% of your NPCs are non-mindless characters slowly losing their memories as they desperately try to stave off the hollowing. It's kind of a huge part of the side plot. And some characters do stave off going hollow for that length of time; you can see under Velstadt's helmet, for example, and the dude's not fully Hollowed yet.
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May 13, 2014 09:25
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:So are there actually hackers in this game or what? Doing bellbro invasions last night, I kept running into the same red phantom several times over. I landed some pretty sweet hits on him, lifebar down to 20% or something... and then, without even moving (let alone drinking estus), it instantly popped back to 100%. Another combo later and he was down to 20% again, and then it popped back up to full. This went on for a while until it just stuck at 100% regardless and he stabbed me to death. Yup, hacks are a thing. Next time try to push them off a ledge if possible. Luna Belfry has that little entrance bridge that you might be able to use.
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May 13, 2014 09:26
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Lunatic Sledge posted:Like 90% of your NPCs are non-mindless characters slowly losing their memories as they desperately try to stave off the hollowing. It's kind of a huge part of the side plot. And some characters do stave off going hollow for that length of time; you can see under Velstadt's helmet, for example, and the dude's not fully Hollowed yet. In both of the Dark Souls games the only way to keep from hollowing is to consume souls. That's why the undead go to Drangleic.
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May 13, 2014 09:30
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The entire game is about the cyclical nature of the world, and at the start of the game you're already somewhere, up above Drangleic, then you fall into a whirlpool and end up in limbo then walk into Drangleic. You came from another cycle of Drangleic, where you saved it from giants then couldn't save your family from the curse and became an undead yourself. Either that or the plot isn't as well planned out as DS1 and there's a few holes.
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May 13, 2014 09:35
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Manatee Cannon posted:In both of the Dark Souls games the only way to keep from hollowing is to consume souls. That's why the undead go to Drangleic. And your character didn't presumably return to Drangleic until he stopped being alive and needed the souls, much like Lucatiel. Old lady in the intro even teases the idea that "perhaps you've seen" Drangleic, "perhaps you're familiar with it," but afterwards brushes it aside as ha ha but nah how would you? I'm not really seeing the hole here, especially since we really don't know how long it was between the giants attacking Drangleic and the start of the game, nevermind that Drangleic is in some bizarre Bermuda Triangle setup and you literally start off in things betwixt.
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May 13, 2014 09:36
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I've been playing NG+ for about three hours now. I've been invaded three times. I've bluebro invaded five people. I've been summoned to help one person against an invader. Things can only get better from here!
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May 13, 2014 09:38
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Lunatic Sledge posted:And your character didn't presumably return to Drangleic until he stopped being alive and needed the souls, much like Lucatiel. Old lady in the intro even teases the idea that "perhaps you've seen" Drangleic, "perhaps you're familiar with it," but afterwards brushes it aside as ha ha but nah how would you? That seems more like a wink and a nudge over it being Lordran to me. Maybe you're right and I'm wrong but that is a huge stretch and frankly doesn't even really work. It's dumb, like Solaire or Benhart being a chosen undead from another world is dumb because it doesn't actually work through the game's own logic.
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May 13, 2014 09:42
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My own pet theory is that dark souls world doesn't have a widespread calendar invented yet. All time is measured in generations, seasons and sun rotation so the events could be just 5 generations ago and be considered ancient already.
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May 13, 2014 09:43
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Manatee Cannon posted:That seems more like a wink and a nudge over it being Lordran to me. Maybe you're right and I'm wrong but that is a huge stretch and frankly doesn't even really work. It's dumb, like Solaire or Benhart being a chosen undead from another world is dumb because it doesn't actually work through the game's own logic. What, who said anything about Lordran I'm saying your character's been to Drangleic before the game proper, while it was still Drangleic even
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May 13, 2014 09:44
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Lunatic Sledge posted:What, who said anything about Lordran I was obviously referring to what the old woman said in the intro. 
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May 13, 2014 09:52
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If you get summoned as a grey spirit by the rat covenant and reach the boss bonfire/fogwall it not only gives you a pharros lockstone same as if you killed the host, but you also return to your world at that boss bonfire instead of having to re-do the area again. I was too lazy to switch out of my covenant for doing the rat authority, sure enough I get summoned and same as every other time it's some shitlord on the cliffs above waiting to spam magic/pyro at me while I'm wading in waist deep water dodging other enemy attacks. I waited like 3 minutes under the initial arch before he dropped down, he immediately starts shield stalling and the 'kick' in this game is useless in every sense. With water slowing us down I really couldn't do anything to stop him from blocking while backing towards the enemies so he can start spamming magic. So I ran, jumped, and dodged both his spells and everything his traps and mobs threw at me to reach the fogwall (it was actually really fun.) But seriously, the rat covenant is lovely enough without the Pharros' Lockstone area being the bullshit that it is.
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May 13, 2014 09:56
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Manatee Cannon posted:I was obviously referring to what the old woman said in the intro. Well, yeah, but the "over it being Lordran" was kind of a strange place to go when I didn't think it was on the table for this conversation. You addressed the alternative that no one presented? I was suggesting that it wasn't just a wink/nudge or Lordran.
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May 13, 2014 09:57
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Lunatic Sledge posted:Well, yeah, but the "over it being Lordran" was kind of a strange place to go when I didn't think it was on the table for this conversation. You addressed the alternative that no one presented? I was suggesting that it wasn't just a wink/nudge or Lordran. What you were suggesting isn't the point, I said that is what I thought when that happened.
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May 13, 2014 10:02
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Sanctum posted:If you get summoned as a grey spirit by the rat covenant and reach the boss bonfire/fogwall it not only gives you a pharros lockstone same as if you killed the host, but you also return to your world at that boss bonfire instead of having to re-do the area again. Yep! It's trivially easy to sprint through Grave of the Saint, and hard but feasible to sprint through Doors of Pharros. Plus, if you die while summoned, you lose nothing except a few spell casts/durability. Ratbro is the gentlest PvP covenant.
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May 13, 2014 10:05
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Manatee Cannon posted:What you were suggesting isn't the point, I said that is what I thought when that happened. Ah. So was there anything else behind this quote:that is a huge stretch and frankly doesn't even really work. It's dumb or was I mistaken in thinking this was a conversation?
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May 13, 2014 10:06
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Apparently you were because you lost me three posts ago.
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May 13, 2014 10:07
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Manatee Cannon posted:It's dumb, like Solaire or Benhart being a chosen undead from another world is dumb because it doesn't actually work through the game's own logic. I want you to try and explain how Solaire's story doesn't "work" with the games own logic when it's pretty nicely explained and a very basic "multiple universes" story.
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May 13, 2014 10:09
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Manatee Cannon posted:Apparently you were because you lost me three posts ago. Gotcha. You were telling me how I was wrong, I guess, and then promptly forgot to how explain how. No big deal. I'm starting to see why you might think parts of the plot are stupid, though.
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May 13, 2014 10:10
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Holy gently caress, does this thread move fast. 700+ posts in 12 hours, jesus... So i bought a logitech F310 and after some fiddling with the .dlls i managed to make the dead zones less prevalent, so it's actually playable. Had a lot of trouble with the analogs registering only if you push them 2/3 through, that is gone now. Have no issue whatsoever with the jump attack and the shield break, even before modding the dead zones. Anyway, I'm loving DS2, got more of a Demons vibe than DaS1 for sure. Went deprived and the game is kicking my rear end for it. I've died way too many times for someone who's played both previous games. Game got condescending even and stopped respawning enemies...
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May 13, 2014 10:19
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Lunatic Sledge posted:Gotcha. You were telling me how I was wrong, I guess, and then promptly forgot to how explain how. No big deal. Uh, no? I've read the post I made that you're misunderstanding and I'm legit confused where you're getting this from. Like, to the point where I am baffled as to where to even begin. No idea where you're coming from anymore.  BARONS GAMES WHINER posted:I want you to try and explain how Solaire's story doesn't "work" with the games own logic when it's pretty nicely explained and a very basic "multiple universes" story. Through the game's own mechanics on how phantoms are treated? You have to be dead to enter someone else's world. Then you're a glowy phantom. Solaire is neither of these things. Same with Benhart, only now he's buying poo poo from your world's merchants and interacting with them in general and somehow you allow him to pass in his world by freeing Rosabeth in yours. It's inconsistent. edit: and keep in mind that any progress you make in another world doesn't count towards yours, so how the gently caress does he get to Shaded Woods if he's not in your world?
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May 13, 2014 10:21
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I think the reason you jump down into Drangleic is because you come from the world or cycle above. There's a pretty cool theory around that the world is set on top of arch trees, with Lordran being ground zero. When you first come to Drangleic, you arrive on a Stonehenge like Dias. When you descend into the Dark in the Pilgrim covenant, you are visiting what is left of Lordran, now overcome in an age of Dark. So those circles are like elevators that link the worlds to each other. Drangleic is dying, and therefore has a lot of souls in the possession of a few. Perfect for a being who comes from a world where the undead curse is so recent, there are still the living around (evidenced by your family melting in the prologue). Linking the first flame links the world to the world above, sending the souls of the world one later up and resuming the cycle (I think). Evidence of the theory is somewhat supported by the presence of arch trees in the starting zone of Thongs Betwixt. Souls from Lordran make an appearance in NG+. It's a pretty out there theory but it makes sense in a lot of ways. I also think the multiple worlds thing is just for multiplayer explanation. It leads to too many crazy possibilities to write a good story around otherwise. Average Bear fucked around with this message at 10:24 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 10:21
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So hey, surprise! The phantom on the boat in no-man's wharf can drop the stone twinblade!
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May 13, 2014 10:28
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Manatee Cannon posted:Through the game's own mechanics on how phantoms are treated? You have to be dead to enter someone else's world. Then you're a glowy phantom. Solaire is neither of these things. "I am Solaire of Astora, an adherent to the Lord of Sunlight. Now that I am Undead, I have come to this great land, the birthplace of Lord Gwyn, to seek my very own sun!" - Solaire of Astora
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May 13, 2014 10:28
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Manatee Cannon posted:Through the game's own mechanics on how phantoms are treated? You have to be dead to enter someone else's world. Then you're a glowy phantom. Solaire is neither of these things. Same with Benhart, only now he's buying poo poo from your world's merchants and interacting with them in general and somehow you allow him to pass in his world by freeing Rosabeth in yours. It's inconsistent. You don't have to be dead (he is an undead, like you, if you somehow mean that) to go into someone else's world, your world and his have temporarily merged, no one summoned him with a sign so he has no glow, and he is doing the same things you are in his own world after your worlds drift apart, maybe he even got past something because you did something while they were merged. It's totally consistent if you bother understanding it. quote:I did not find my own sun, not in Anor Londo, nor in Twilight Blighttown.
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May 13, 2014 10:29
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Now I still don't personally believe that Benhart and Solaire are in the same boat--Benhart spends too much time in your world and never addresses his being different--but Solaire's situation makes perfect sense and is thoroughly explained.
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May 13, 2014 10:30
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Manatee Cannon posted:Uh, no? I've read the post I made that you're misunderstanding and I'm legit confused where you're getting this from. Like, to the point where I am baffled as to where to even begin. No idea where you're coming from anymore. Solaire is undead. Benhart is undead. Most everyone you meet in the game is undead. That woman on pilgrimage in Dark Souls 1? Undead. Undead all up in here. Most everyone in the game is undead, but in Dark Souls, undead does not mean you look like a zombie. Most undead look perfectly fine. It's only until they start hollowing, losing their minds, that their body starts to go as well. As for them not being phantoms, remember when you're at a bonfire? You see ghosts. Usually they're visible as ghosts, but frequently they become so solid that it almost looks as if they're actually there, in your world. NPCs are like that. Their worlds are just closer to your world, is all, compared to other players. That could also be reasoning as to why most NPCs you meet appear to hang out around a primary bonfire like Majula instead of just hanging out in the world, apart from a few other NPCs that still usually hang out next to bonfires out in the world. And presumably he got to Shaded Woods by walking there in his own world. You just never see NPCs travel, because outside of certain areas they're not visible in your world anymore. LOGIC
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May 13, 2014 10:32
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Dead and undead aren't the same thing. Soul form. Hollow form. Whatever. edit: eh, whatever. I'll concede the point.
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May 13, 2014 10:36
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Me going through Shrine of Amana in NG+. Small energy blink, the lights go out for a second and come back, computer hangs. Load game again...hands shaking... "Save corrupted" 
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May 13, 2014 10:38
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Manatee Cannon posted:Dead and undead aren't the same thing. Soul form. Hollow form. Whatever. You don't have to be hollowed in DS1 or 2 to be summoned, either, also you can summon him to help from his world and he does have the Sunbro glow. Solaire is 100% the chosen undead of his world. The director of the game said so in the Art of Dark Souls book. His canon ending is he links the fire. You're grasping at straws that aren't there.
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May 13, 2014 10:39
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TheNightReaver posted:Me going through Shrine of Amana in NG+. Small energy blink, the lights go out for a second and come back, computer hangs. Should have had more Adaptability in all seriousness, holy poo poo that's awful. I had that happen twice (twice!) on DS1 PS3 and both times I thought we were going to have to buy a new controller. I love autosaves but man I hate autosaves.
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May 13, 2014 10:40
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Iretep posted:Going to NG+ also increases drop rates. Is Ascetic functionally equivalent to an actual NG+ in terms of affecting drop rates?
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May 13, 2014 10:48
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TheNightReaver posted:Me going through Shrine of Amana in NG+. Small energy blink, the lights go out for a second and come back, computer hangs. Maybe you should stop being terrible and get good at shrine of amana. 
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May 13, 2014 10:48
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