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Koesj posted:Plus TLAMs, Storm Shadow, way better ships, etc. The British have ninjas now? I guess they probably just call them heroes though...
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May 13, 2014 02:35
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Totally TWISTED posted:Also the British need a carrier because damnit my inner child that toured the HMS Victory and knew as much as the tour guide needs them to still be able to put at least one decent fleet to sea without literally riding the USN's coattails. Nelson's Navy now has zero operational capital (under the modern definition of the word, boomers don't count) vessels.
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May 13, 2014 03:52
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Nelson has been dead for almost 200 years. Battleships have been dead for 70 years. Carriers haven't fought a naval battle in just as long and naval doctrine hasn't had a real example to draw on in all that time. How many "capital ships" you have (now that destroyers are bigger than heavy old heavy cruisers anyway) isn't as good a metric as it was.
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May 13, 2014 03:59
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Arglebargle III posted:Nelson has been dead for almost 200 years. Almost? 2014 - 1805 > 200
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May 13, 2014 04:03
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Carriers are the geopolitical version of swinging your dick at someone, LBJ style.
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May 13, 2014 04:05
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Arglebargle III posted:Battleships have been dead for 70 years. Carriers haven't fought a naval battle in just as long Just because carriers haven't actually sent out aircraft to sink other carriers lately doesn't at all mean that they aren't important. And if you count any launch of an aircraft from a carrier engaging another warship as naval battles, then they've fought much more recently than you give credit for.
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May 13, 2014 04:08
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Mig-21 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwo-fY3HHA8
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May 13, 2014 04:22
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Oh that's a cool video of a plane. Oh it's getting closer. Oh it's got bombs. 
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May 13, 2014 04:25
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More to the point England has its freedom of shipping guaranteed by possibly the closest alliance in the modern world with a nation that has 10 times the capital ships of any other power. Their strategic need for a capital ship is questionable. In a world where the strategic needs of Great Britain and the United States are hard to imagine ever being divorced to the degree that Britain would need its own Navy capable of winning blue water battles , why duplicate the capabilities and expense of the American Navy? I did not check the date for the Battle of Trafalgar before posting. :-(
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May 13, 2014 05:00
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Arglebargle III posted:More to the point England has its freedom of shipping guaranteed by possibly the closest alliance in the modern world with a nation that has 10 times the capital ships of any other power. Their strategic need for a capital ship is questionable. In a world where the strategic needs of Great Britain and the United States are hard to imagine ever being divorced to the degree that Britain would need its own Navy capable of winning blue water battles , why duplicate the capabilities and expense of the American Navy? Because a blue water navy with some level of credible force projection capabilities, however small, does a lot to get you at the grown ups table in international politics. It's a huge part of what distinguishes regional powers from global ones. To keep this topical, that's one of the big reasons the Falklands happened.
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May 13, 2014 05:18
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Cyrano4747 posted:Because a blue water navy with some level of credible force projection capabilities, however small, does a lot to get you at the grown ups table in international politics. It's a huge part of what distinguishes regional powers from global ones. Si vis pacem, para bellum Perhaps instead of scrapping George Washington early, we could sell her to the Brits instead. I would request we mandate they keep the name, for irony's sake.
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May 13, 2014 05:28
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Cyrano4747 posted:Because a blue water navy with some level of credible force projection capabilities, however small, does a lot to get you at the grown ups table in international politics. It's a huge part of what distinguishes regional powers from global ones. This is really what it comes down to. If you don't have the ability to deploy aircraft from a carrier without asking the French for your turn with the toy the only people that will take notice of your navy are Somali pirates. It is perhaps a silly reason from an American point of view but imagine America declining and sharing a carrier with Mexico while they rely on PLAN's carriers for force projection and defense. Nationalistic as gently caress but my mom's British and I lived there so  etc
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May 13, 2014 05:33
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"Do we sign over our sovereignty to the French?" isn't exactly an abstract question for the British these days, either.
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May 13, 2014 05:36
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There was a plan for a jointly owned Franco-British carrier; though it was rather quickly abandoned. The Brits are building two carriers; as for the French theoretically their Navy wants another but they just don't have the funds for that.
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May 13, 2014 08:46
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How dare they spend money on generous social welfare!  The English government knows how to manage its monies which is why their economy is doing so much better. . . Right guys?  Honestly, what are English bonds going for nowadays? 2%? If the Tories won't buy health care or housing even on such generous credit maybe they could be convinced to spend it on The British Admiralty. It would be better than using it to cut taxes or shrink the economy or whatever insane plan to not spend money they're pursuing now.
Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 09:23 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 09:18
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uPen posted:Oh that's a cool video of a plane. haha same, i thought it was an airshow at first cause i didnt have any sound on.
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May 13, 2014 11:19
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Except the English economy isn't doing better. It has been much worse than ours for decades. Phoneposting and I don't remember the exact numbers but we're on the order of 10% wealthier, maybe more. e: holy poo poo they're 30% poorer actually Mortabis fucked around with this message at 11:47 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 11:45
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GB has been going down the shitter for middle/lower classes for a long time.
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May 13, 2014 11:49
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Arglebargle III posted:How dare they spend money on generous social welfare! This is probably going to be the thing that forces European nations to spend on the military again, oddly enough. As European standards of living rise and American ones decline, sooner or later America is gonna pull out of Europe to the extent that we're there and it's probably gonna be better if Europeans are prepared. I'm already at the point where I think NATO is bullshit and the military bases peppered across Europe should be closed.
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May 13, 2014 12:05
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evil_bunnY posted:GB has been going down the shitter for middle/lower classes for a long time. If by a long time you mean since the end of World War II. Britain had wartime rationing in place for ten years after the end of the war for no good reason, and their economic policies remained retarded through the 1970s. We lapped them in that time. VikingSkull posted:This is probably going to be the thing that forces European nations to spend on the military again, oddly enough. lol if you think the European economies are growing faster than ours is. e: some of them might have higher year/year growth but they're all so far behind us (except Norway and a few miniscule countries not worth mentioning) that it hardly matters. Mortabis fucked around with this message at 12:16 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 12:12
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Mortabis posted:a few miniscule countries not worth mentioning American Exceptionalism at work! It isn't airpower, but the Atlantic has a cool spread of photos from WWI. My favorite is the radio powered by two Germans on a tandem bicycle generator. http://www.theatlantic.com/infocus/2014/05/world-war-i-in-photos-technology/100733/
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May 13, 2014 12:26
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Yeah fiscal policy on both sides of the Atlantic took a huge poo poo and died in 2008. But in Europe monetary policy is also hosed. The US is doing comparatively better which tells you Europe is doing very badly indeed. Unless you're Germany and like literally the only one benefiting from tight Euro monetary policy. And even then your public coffers are being robbed to send Greece money so Greece can send that money straight back to German bankers. It's amazing that of a continent supposedly ridden with socialist pinkos, only Iceland told the big banks to get hosed when they showed up at the public treasury with shovels and bags. To make this tie into the Cold War somehow, the Thomas Piketty thread down in DD discussing (and I use that word loosely) his new book Capital in the 21st Century has been tossing around the idea that the Cold War kept the capitalist class honest to some extent, because they had to share some of the wealth or Communist propaganda would have been uncomfortably accurate. Now that there is no alternative to capitalism there is nothing holding them back. Except democracy and rule of law.  Ah yes austerity, the policy that first-year economics students could tell you would cause another recession. But what do they know, they're just first-year students and we've got professional academics like Niall Ferguson telling us it'll work grea -- oh we've gone back into recession? NO ONE COULD HAVE PREDICTED THIS. Arglebargle III fucked around with this message at 12:36 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 12:28
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Why tell banks to get hosed when you can peddle the idea of austerity?
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May 13, 2014 12:34
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Arglebargle III posted:Yeah fiscal policy on both sides of the Atlantic took a huge poo poo and died in 2008. But in Europe monetary policy is also hosed. The US is doing comparatively better which tells you Europe is doing very badly indeed. Unless you're Germany and like literally the only one benefiting from tight Euro monetary policy. And even then your public coffers are being robbed to send Greece money so Greece can send that money straight to German bankers. The banks in Iceland are somewhat smaller, I suppose. But yeah, the fact that the banks managed to get us into this mess and then turn around and demand we save them, and then go on to lobby against the irresponsible government spending is something that will turn even a normal thinking man into a communist.
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May 13, 2014 12:37
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I remember reading an Economist article in something like February 2009 trumpeting about how PUBLIC DEBT IS THE NEW PROBLEM in a bit of disbelief. Yes, European public debt was at record levels because their governments had not four months ago absorbed massive private debts that the banks ran up. The financial industry and many people in their general orbit developed a powerful selective amnesia about the events 2008. And the fact that the insane policy prescriptions that came out of that industry-wide amnesia were put into place, and largely stay in place despite 6 years now of economic disaster in Europe, speaks to how warped our system currently is.Mortabis posted:Except the English economy isn't doing better. It has been much worse than ours for decades. Phoneposting and I don't remember the exact numbers but we're on the order of 10% wealthier, maybe more. 
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May 13, 2014 12:45
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To get back to the original goal of the thread, I have a possibly/probably stupid question that may have been asked/answered in the 284 pages I'm still working on reading: How customized are the screen angles/seat positions/controls/etc of a given supersonic jet to its primary pilot? When you're talking about something like an Eagle that can move half a mile in a second, it seems like it would be important for everything to be exactly where the pilot wants it to be. Alternately, if every plane is exactly the same, the pilot can jump into any other jet of the same type and function just as well from the word "go". Given the G-forces involved, it seems like everything would need to be bolted down very tightly... assuming some personalization does take place, how long does it take to refit a plane for a new pilot after its previous pilot has retired?
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May 13, 2014 13:11
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Kytrarewn posted:To get back to the original goal of the thread, I have a possibly/probably stupid question that may have been asked/answered in the 284 pages I'm still working on reading: Not much at all. Pilots have custom fitted gloves and helmets and flightsuits, but the aircraft is interchangable, and you fly the airplane that is working, not necessarily the one that has your name on the side. Though the designers of the X-15 program had much the same concerns as you do, and they did make customized balsa-wood butt-print seats for each test pilots that slotted in to the metal frame of the actual seat.
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May 13, 2014 13:44
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I've wondered how a left-handed pilot copes with any kind of modern fighter cockpit. Just deal with it? Go fly a bigger plane?
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May 13, 2014 13:45
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Snowdens Secret posted:I've wondered how a left-handed pilot copes with any kind of modern fighter cockpit. Just deal with it? Go fly a bigger plane? I'd imagine. I'm left handed but use a mouse / joystick right handed as it was taught to me that way from day 1 and it feels natural enough. Writing and throwing are the only real instinctive things I'd do with my left.
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May 13, 2014 13:47
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Snowdens Secret posted:I've wondered how a left-handed pilot copes with any kind of modern fighter cockpit. Just deal with it? Go fly a bigger plane? What, like an Airbus? 
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May 13, 2014 14:14
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Stop calling it England i'm triggering. It's called the UKKK.
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May 13, 2014 14:28
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deck posted:What, like an Airbus? Yes. If the controls are mirrored can't you just trade seats? Also isn't the pilot (PIC, whatever) on the left in an Airbus anyway? (I was thinking milplanes but the point stands)
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May 13, 2014 14:30
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Breaky posted:I'd imagine. I'm left handed but use a mouse / joystick right handed as it was taught to me that way from day 1 and it feels natural enough. Writing and throwing are the only real instinctive things I'd do with my left. Another lefty, basically the same here. People assume that I'm right handed unless I tell them otherwise, so that's how I learn to do things.
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May 13, 2014 15:15
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Arglebargle III posted:How dare they spend money on generous social welfare! I don't think you've been listening to what Mr. Cameron has been saying: austerity is working TBH using free labor (IE people otherwise un/underemployed) toward needed capital projects is a very sensible idea. Unfortunately, it would be tantamount to admitting Cameron was wrong and he shot the struggling economy in the foot for literally no reason aside from stupid class bias-- So austerity forever (fun fact - this many years into the great depression, GB was actually doing *better* than GB is doing right now.) e: struggling, not smuggling. Nebakenezzer fucked around with this message at 16:01 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 15:55
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So what i've gathered so far the US needs to name a carrier American Exceptionalism then rub it in the UKs face.
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May 13, 2014 16:25
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Agean90 posted:So what i've gathered so far the US needs to name a carrier American Exceptionalism then rub it in the UKs face. Instead of a name just paint two big hands giving the middle finger on the side of the boat. The U.S.S. Double-Bird.
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May 13, 2014 16:26
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StandardVC10 posted:Instead of a name just paint two big hands giving the middle finger on the side of the boat. The U.S.S. Double-Eagle. 
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May 13, 2014 16:29
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StandardVC10 posted:Instead of a name just paint two big hands giving the middle finger on the side of the boat. The U.S.S. Double-Bird. Its escorts will all have gun turrets painted to look like giant dicks
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May 13, 2014 16:39
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Agean90 posted:Its escorts will all have gun turrets painted to look like giant dicks So America's Navy's Army, will now have a Navy?
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May 13, 2014 18:20
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Agean90 posted:So what i've gathered so far the US needs to name a carrier American Exceptionalism then rub it in the UKs face. Sounds like we need another Yorktown.
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May 13, 2014 19:50
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