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Ramos posted:I tend to find giving the person I'm teaching the right "cool" deck to start with tends to be more important than how complex a deck is, though you don't want too complex. Exactly - that's the thing with my experience too. What clicked for me when I learned magic wasn't the basic rules but discovering the synergies. Hell, I didn't have all the basic rules down before I started looking at what kind of synergies existed, but the game wasn't interesting until you looked at cool nifty combos and interactions like ONS tribal, affinity, Kamigawa Arcane and Spiritcraft, etc.
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May 13, 2014 19:50
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A teaching deck doesn't have to be on the level of nothing but vanilla creatures and lightning bolts, but pick, say, one or two mechanics like heroic or batallion or something to use in each deck, and maybe a couple bomb rares that do cool but not horribly complicated things. And have them watch you do a quick demo game against another player while you explain everything you do. The goal is to make them have fun. Just throw a deck that can do cool things without doing too many complicated things at once, and you're good.
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May 13, 2014 19:50
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I don't think you're giving Magic enough credit if you think introducing someone brand new to the game with Core-set level is doing the game a disservice. Core Set limited environments have been some of the most enjoyable for me over the past few years. I played an unmodified Fifth Edition tournament pack dozens of times uphill both ways cause I didn't know any better and it ruled
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May 13, 2014 19:51
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Kasonic posted:I don't think you're giving Magic enough credit if you think introducing someone brand new to the game with Core-set level is doing the game a disservice. Core Set limited environments have been some of the most enjoyable for me over the past few years. Have you played like, 8th - 10th edition limited? Those formats were ridiculously dry. Grab looters, pingers, and bombs and then fill your deck with dorks. That's not great limited in contrast to the actual block formats that existed at the same time like MMD and COK COK COK. 8th and 9th were egregiously bad, 10th was at least tolerable but still pretty dull, especially since it was sandwiched between Time Spiral and Lorwyn blocks. 5th Edition at least had like, Dark Ritual and Necropotence in it. Zoness fucked around with this message at 19:55 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 19:52
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Make sure you put 4 copies of mudhole in their deck just so they can't beat you when you're trying to teach them.
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May 13, 2014 19:53
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Zoness posted:I literally don't see any duel deck as having cards that are hard enough to grasp that you'd be having this problem every time you go and play a card, but I also find reading what new cards do to be fun because playing with the same cards over and over again is boring. Cards like Giant Growth, Lightning Bolt and Doom Blade aren't "unfun" cards and they don't take more than 10 seconds to understand the strategic value of the card.
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May 13, 2014 19:55
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I remember a friend trying to hook me on the game and my being very bored by Plague Rats. So they get bigger. Big deal. Then he showed me Goblin Grenade. The power, the whimsy, the whiff of something transgressive: THAT sold me.
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May 13, 2014 19:55
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Angry Grimace posted:You're confusing "hard to grasp" with "requires you to spend a minute reading the card every time you draw a card." What you think is boring is different from what someone who doesn't know how to play Magic thinks is boring. I don't know what card takes you a minute to read aside from maybe Chains of Mephistopheles. Okay maybe Sylvan Library too, that card has some weird templating on it. Also how is someone that takes a whole minute to parse the average magic card with rules text on it understanding the full utility of Giant Growth, Lightning Bolt, and Doom Blade in less than 10 seconds? Like, do they immediately know not to bolt the opponent immediately within the first 10 seconds of seeing lightning bolt for the first time? Do they know to hold Giant Growth for double blocks for a 2-for-1? Do they know to Doom Blade a really big creature or like a creature that's being targeted with an aura or a creature in a double block? Zoness fucked around with this message at 20:01 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 19:57
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Zoness posted:I don't know what card takes you a minute to read aside from maybe Chains of Mephistopheles. Its not that the text itself takes a minute to read, its the time to read the card, re-read the card to make sure you understood what it does, and then understand what exactly it does and what the implications of the card are. The biggest problem I've had teaching people to play is that they get pissed off by mis-plays because they didn't understand what the card did. Even if you correct them, they're still upset at the game at that point.
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May 13, 2014 20:00
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Zoness posted:I don't know what card takes you a minute to read aside from maybe Chains of Mephistopheles. Somebody who bought a pack of Ice Age in 1995 just finished reading this card
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May 13, 2014 20:00
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rabidsquid posted:Somebody who bought a pack of Ice Age in 1995 just finished reading this card That's only because they activated its ability and put their comprehension counters on the card but lost track of what colors of mana they were using! Angry Grimace posted:Its not that the text itself takes a minute to read, its the time to read the card, re-read the card to make sure you understood what it does, and then understand what exactly it does and what the implications of the card are. That's a poo poo attitude, honestly. Personally I'm annoyed at making misplays but I'm glad to find opportunities to play better and that's why I like card complexity.
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May 13, 2014 20:02
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Zoness posted:That's only because they activated its ability and put their comprehension counters on the card but lost track of what colors of mana they were using! Yeah, but the goal isn't teaching YOU to play Magic, its other people.
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May 13, 2014 20:03
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Angry Grimace posted:You're confusing "hard to grasp" with "requires you to spend a minute reading the card every time you draw a card." What you think is boring is different from what someone who doesn't know how to play Magic thinks is boring. These are people who don't know how to play Magic and don't want to play Magic.
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May 13, 2014 20:05
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Am I seriously the only person who played Ice Cauldron as a kid and correctly figured out exactly what it did? Everyone always brings up how baffling that card is but once I gave it a good read I never had a problem. Hell, you want ambiguity? Revised printing of Samite Healer's text is WAY simpler and leaves way more room for confusion. Your Craw Wurm doesn't damage me because I've spent the last 6 turns tapping Samite Healer! Nehru the Damaja fucked around with this message at 20:11 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 20:09
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endlessmonotony posted:These are people who don't know how to play Magic and don't want to play Magic. Have you ever actually attempted to teach anyone to play? Because every time I've taught someone it pretty much works the way I am suggesting. Evergreen mechanics are evergreen for a reason.
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May 13, 2014 20:10
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Nehru the Damaja posted:Am I seriously the only person who played Ice Cauldron as a kid and correctly figured out exactly what it did? Everyone always brings up how baffling that card is but once I gave it a good read I never had a problem. I bet your Ice Cauldron/Polar Kraken deck was sick. Polar Kraken looked like a huge sponge and it had Age Counters, card was really ahead of its time. Also the Winter Orb bears were getting eaten by it, so really Polar Kraken has a lot going on. rabidsquid fucked around with this message at 20:15 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 20:12
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rabidsquid posted:I bet your Ice Cauldron/Polar Kraken deck was sick. It was! I killed someone with a Polar Kraken once! Like... ever.
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May 13, 2014 20:12
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Nehru the Damaja posted:It was! I killed someone with a Polar Kraken once! Like... ever. I remember trying really hard to find someone who had Leviathan to trade it to me for my sick Blue, White and Green deck with 100 cards in it.
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May 13, 2014 20:14
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Nehru the Damaja posted:It was! I killed someone with a Polar Kraken once! Like... ever. Sounds about as effective as my mill deck which had one milling card in it. Jace 2.0, pretty decent, but not on his own. Looking back on that deck a few months after I started playing and I was in shock.
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May 13, 2014 20:16
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Bad first deck chat: The big game in my very first deck was suiting up a Scaled Wurm with Serra's Embrace. It did have Blastoderms in it though, that card is good.
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May 13, 2014 20:17
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Angry Grimace posted:I remember trying really hard to find someone who had Leviathan to trade it to me for my sick Blue, White and Green deck with 100 cards in it. 100-card Grixis here.
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May 13, 2014 20:17
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So if I take this green intro deck, which is awesome, and the black intro deck, which is awesome, and I combine them... that makes a deck that's EVEN MORE AWESOME. Also we played 'fast Magic' where you could play as many lands as you wanted and always drew to 7.
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May 13, 2014 20:21
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Even when I was 13 I knew having a 300 card deck with one of those "if you have 200 or more cards you win" cards in it probably wasn't going to be super great.
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May 13, 2014 20:22
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vOv posted:So if I take this green intro deck, which is awesome, and the black intro deck, which is awesome, and I combine them... that makes a deck that's EVEN MORE AWESOME. Another thing we were specialists at was cheating, e.g. "LOOK AT THAT!" *puts Land Tax on top of deck*
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May 13, 2014 20:23
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vOv posted:So if I take this green intro deck, which is awesome, and the black intro deck, which is awesome, and I combine them... that makes a deck that's EVEN MORE AWESOME. We also did the free mulligans and play all your lands back in middle school. I think my favorite deck was a UW with Serra Avatar, Capsize and Angelic Chorus to have all the life. I mostly only ever played against one other guy and I distinctly remember the time he played Recycle with no other cards in hand and I had to tell him why that was a bad idea.
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May 13, 2014 20:24
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AgentSythe posted:Bad first deck chat: My first deck was some terrible White-Blue weenie thing during innistrad block. I then got some really bad BUG mill thing during Rav-Innistrad block. Then I visited a good LGS and got better than I was. Still need to playtest my Italia deck though 
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May 13, 2014 20:25
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Zoness posted:I literally don't see any duel deck as having cards that are hard enough to grasp that you'd be having this problem every time you go and play a card, but I also find reading what new cards do to be fun because playing with the same cards over and over again is boring. Dude you are certainly an outlier then. Those combos all look cool, but to learn, to teach someone the bare bones of the game, you really need some simple dudes bash into each other decks. Yeah, you dont want to keep a player on them long, but those tend to be the best learning tools.
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May 13, 2014 20:25
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Angry Grimace posted:Another thing we were specialists at was cheating, e.g. "LOOK AT THAT!" *puts Land Tax on top of deck* I played with an older kid who always did poo poo like that and I was too small, young, meek, etc. to call him on it. This is why I learned to play blue. The huge dragon you cheated into your hand? It is now mine.
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May 13, 2014 20:26
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The second deck I ever made was a blue/black control deck with Death Cloud, Condescend, Hinder, and rats in Mirrodin/Kamigawa standard. It used a Marrow Gnawer / Freed from the Real combo to make a ton of rat tokens to win. It never beat tooth and nail but sometimes I beat my friend who was bad at playing Atog Affinity (because Atog Affinity  ).The first deck I made was a dumb cleric deck that durdled and gained life, like a life combo deck but without any En-Kor and then my friend traded me a Shaman En-Kor  .
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May 13, 2014 20:27
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My memories of middle school magic consist mainly of trying to make a "burn" deck with a whole bunch of fireballs and a sol ring and one Mana Flare, or playing my Sengire Vampires and Black Knights directly into my friend's Balance or Wrath of God over and over and never learning.
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May 13, 2014 20:28
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My first deck was a stack of 80-100 cards that was nothing but green ramp, G/W fatties, and multiple copies of every circle of protection. Even with a board advantage I didn't understand how to press it and I'd sit back behind my circles with a million mana ready.
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May 13, 2014 20:30
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It was hardly my first deck, which was literally just stuff from packs of Legends and The Dark jammed in with what I opened in an Unlimited starter deck, but I found one of my old decks recently and it was a BUG Aluren combo deck with Mind over Matter, Archivist, Man-o'-War, Hunting Moa, Triskelion, Drain Life, Necropotence and Priest of Gix. This combo deck was oppressive in a metagame where none of my friends played removal. edit: I found it again, deck also played Dream Halls because Mise, and it had Equilibrium to generate infinite mana. second edit: I also found a Sol Ring and a playset of Underground Seas thanks thread! rabidsquid fucked around with this message at 20:42 on May 13, 2014 |
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May 13, 2014 20:31
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I'm jealous of you jerks who played in a window where basic concepts of deckbuilding like curve existed. My window between understanding what a somewhat coherent deck was and quitting the game for 14 years was pretty small and I think the only decks I can credit to myself that weren't just idiot piles was maybe a UW control deck whose win con was to sit behind counterspells and walls until drawing into Island Sanctuary and Sacred Mesa.
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May 13, 2014 20:31
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I'm jealous of you jerks who played in a window where basic concepts of deckbuilding like curve existed. My window between understanding what a somewhat coherent deck was and quitting the game for 14 years was pretty small and I think the only decks I can credit to myself that weren't just idiot piles was maybe a UW control deck whose win con was to sit behind counterspells and walls until drawing into Island Sanctuary and Sacred Mesa. I didn't really play with the concept of a curve so much as knowing that I had to be able to deal with two Darksteel Colossi on turn 4 somehow. Once you acknowledge that is a thing you have to beat you end up realizing cards like Barter in Blood and Hinder and Mana Leak are really cool. Also Turn 3 Broodstar.
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May 13, 2014 20:36
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I'm sure I can't be the only one who had that one friend whose father would get them a booster box or something, and they'd end up busting out spiritmongers all over you.
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May 13, 2014 20:36
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The first standard deck I built had Shifting Sky and a bunch of pro-red creatures/circles. Amazing combo!
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May 13, 2014 20:36
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Tharizdun posted:Jace vs Vraska features a $15 Jace, a $12 Remand and a $5 Vraska, in addition to dollar-rare and EDH candy like Future Sight, all for the princely sum of $20, so that would have been a good baseline. Don't forget Underworld Connections, which was at $3 for MBD until the dual decks came out and is now at 75 cents.
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May 13, 2014 20:38
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Nehru the Damaja posted:I'm jealous of you jerks who played in a window where basic concepts of deckbuilding like curve existed. My window between understanding what a somewhat coherent deck was and quitting the game for 14 years was pretty small and I think the only decks I can credit to myself that weren't just idiot piles was maybe a UW control deck whose win con was to sit behind counterspells and walls until drawing into Island Sanctuary and Sacred Mesa. My first real deck was something similar but I used howling mines, underworld dreams, the abyss, juggernauts, clay statues, and yotion solders and then couterspells and power sinks to back them up. I'm sure it was at least 70 cards but it always did pretty well against the other piles of random r/g dudes that the other guys were playing. Multiplayer only and it was always 4 player minimum so Syphon Soul was a great way to catch back up from being the tables target.
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May 13, 2014 20:38
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I was the rear end in a top hat blue player in my playgroup from the get go. When we all started we would go to a local comic shop that had about 6-7 boxes of mostly unorganized cards (just sorted by color) that you could pull from for 10 cents a card. None of us were familiar with concepts like mana curves so most of our decks relied on jank combos that bent the rules since we didn't know any better. For example, one of the scariest decks at the table was a landfall deck that used Tideforce Elemental and Living Tsunami to repeatedly un-tap Tsunami for multiple combat steps. We had no clue how phases really worked so we thought creatures that untapped after swinging could swing again, because why not, they're untapped!  Somehow we glossed over vigilance in this stupid idea.Of course this led to an arms race once we figured out this insane interaction! I built a control deck with Sharding Sphinx, Thopter Assembly, whatever counterspell variants I could dig out of the box and a full playset of fabricate. Combined with Clock of Omens I would create an infinite army of Thopters and end the game in 1-2 turns. After this stupidity one of us finally looked up that YouTube video that explained how phases really work and it all fell apart.
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May 13, 2014 20:54
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| # ? Jun 6, 2024 15:37 |
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So apparently EDH on MTGO has been broken for over a month where some new bugs cause a match slow down to 1+ minute between phases. It has killed the EDH crowd online. No word on when it'll be fixed.
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May 13, 2014 20:55
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