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zVxTeflon posted:Just curious which ones you thought were thrown in to be edgy? Dany and Drogo in the first season and Jaime and Cersei in the most recent season. My understanding is that both of these scenes were consensual in the books and were made rapey/coercive for the television show, which is stupid and unnecessary considering that they seem contradictory to the plot (Dany and Drogo go on to have a very happy marriage, Jaime had recently interfered to avoid leaving Brienne in a situation where she might be sexually assaulted and so clearly doesn't condone such treatment of people he cares about). Since neither scene makes a lot of sense considering the characters/relationships involved I can't think of any other reason they would've been made coercive.
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May 14, 2014 01:48
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TwistedLadder posted:Dany and Drogo in the first season and Jaime and Cersei in the most recent season. My understanding is that both of these scenes were consensual in the books and were made rapey/coercive for the television show, which is stupid and unnecessary considering that they seem contradictory to the plot (Dany and Drogo go on to have a very happy marriage, Jaime had recently interfered to avoid leaving Brienne in a situation where she might be sexually assaulted and so clearly doesn't condone such treatment of people he cares about). The first one is presented slightly more pleasantly(really not sure what the proper word choice is), but it's far from a modern understanding of consent, and the second is absolutely rape. The show has illuminated a severe lack of reading comprehension/critical thinking in many readers. The strict POVs color characters' understanding of events around them and even their own actions deeply.
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May 14, 2014 02:04
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Maarak posted:The first one is presented slightly more pleasantly(really not sure what the proper word choice is), but it's far from a modern understanding of consent, and the second is absolutely rape. The show has illuminated a severe lack of reading comprehension/critical thinking in many readers. The strict POVs color characters' understanding of events around them and even their own actions deeply.  I haven't read the books, that's what I was told. In either case neither is necessary for the progression of the plot, and doesn't particularly seem to match up with the attitudes exhibited by those characters in other situations. They didn't need to be there, they don't add anything to the story other than "Dany isn't necessarily safe in this situation," which was already apparent, and "The Lannister family is hosed up," which we already knew.
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May 14, 2014 02:24
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Clive Barker just used Giger's death to promote a comic book signing So classy
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May 14, 2014 02:24
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TwistedLadder posted:
I haven't read the books either, but it seems to me its better to present rape as unambiguously non-consensual rather than as some sort of "they said no but they really wanted it" situation, and it sounds like the latter is how the books presented both.
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May 14, 2014 02:47
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In the books at least, the scene with Cersei and Jaime is presented wholly from Jaime's POV and Cersei tells him "no" at least once, so the amount of actual consent there is up to interpretation.
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May 14, 2014 02:54
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Slice of (lovely) Life: A few weeks ago a lie I told to my dad some time ago had came out. It wasn't a big one, but my dad was hurt by it and I felt like poo poo. He even flat-out asked me if there were any more lies that I had. I told him no. Today, by sheer coincidence, another old lie of mine surfaced - one I had forgotten - and now I've double-hurt my dad. I'm a horrible son. 
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May 14, 2014 02:58
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mr. stefan posted:In the books at least, the scene with Cersei and Jaime is presented wholly from Jaime's POV and Cersei tells him "no" at least once, so the amount of actual consent there is up to interpretation. Lord Krangdar posted:I haven't read the books either, but it seems to me its better to present rape as unambiguously non-consensual rather than as some sort of "they said no but they really wanted it" situation, and it sounds like the latter is how the books presented both.
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May 14, 2014 02:59
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TwistedLadder posted:I would argue that "no" means it was non-consensual. The scene as presented in the show is definitely rape, in any case. Oh, I'm not trying to imply anything else, it's just that the scene as written seems like some bodice-ripper "she wasn't willing at first but changed her mind before anything serious happened" bullshit until you step back and remember who it is telling the story, so even that straw is too loose to grasp on.
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May 14, 2014 03:05
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TwistedLadder posted:I would argue that "no" means it was non-consensual. The scene as presented in the show is definitely rape, in any case. I didn't really flinch during the Dany/Drogo scene, I guess because he's a big brute, so I bought into the stereotype. as for Jaimie/Cersei I was deeply uncomfortable, and apparently they shot it a few ways and that's the way they chose to cut it together. It's a huge drag
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May 14, 2014 03:06
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:I didn't really flinch during the Dany/Drogo scene, I guess because he's a big brute, so I bought into the stereotype. as for Jaimie/Cersei I was deeply uncomfortable, and apparently they shot it a few ways and that's the way they chose to cut it together. It's a huge drag The show does a great job of making its lady characters into fully developed characters with clear traits and motivations that they act on, so it just irritates me when it insists on throwing in sexual assault that's superfluous to the plot. schwenz posted:Clive Barker just used Giger's death to promote a comic book signing TwistedLadder fucked around with this message at 03:16 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 03:12
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TwistedLadder posted:
I know, I'm just frustrated about it. Learning that a considerable chunk of readers preferred a romantic fantasy vs the very clear cut power dynamics laid out is more than a little disturbing to me. Didn't mean to sound cross. quote:In either case neither is necessary for the progression of the plot, and doesn't particularly seem to match up with the attitudes exhibited by those characters in other situations. They didn't need to be there, they don't add anything to the story other than "Dany isn't necessarily safe in this situation," which was already apparent, and "The Lannister family is hosed up," which we already knew. In the books Dany is quite a bit younger on her wedding night, with Drogo more or less the same age as in the show. He treats her more gently that night, but rapes her every night afterwards until she begins to learn how to control the situation more via lessons from her handmaiden. The show version is considerably less creepy than that IMO. In both the books and the show, Jaime seems unaware that he has raped Cersei. She protests in both, he continues, and she relents when he makes it clear he isn't going to stop. He honestly seems to think that his actions are welcome. Compare to this season 1 scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xCpZpWOFXrA Jaime is used to being cruel and forceful with her, and she seems to tolerate it based on his devotion and capacity for murder. Through Jaime she has a sliver of power and control over a world that treats her like chattel. Losing his sword hand changes that dynamic completely, not to mention the guilt she feels for sleeping with Lancel while he was imprisoned, but he isn't willing to accept that rejection. On top of his misguided ideas of comforting her, raping her(though he doesn't see it that way) is a way to try to restore his life to what it was pre-hand chop. His time with Brienne made an impact, and will continue to do so, but he would prefer to live as he used. Aside from Tyrion, he finds scorn and disrespect from all sides in the capital. He isn't even able to save his son, which makes him 0/3 kings guarded. Re-establishing his sexual power over his sister is a kind of twisted comfort to him, an escape from his feelings of impotence and grief. I don't want to spoil any plot points, but whatever illusion of a romantic relationship they had is shattered, and that has huge implications on the story going forward. All that said, the director of the latter scene in question severely needs more media training based on the interview he gave, sheesh. mr. stefan posted:In the books at least, the scene with Cersei and Jaime is presented wholly from Jaime's POV and Cersei tells him "no" at least once, so the amount of actual consent there is up to interpretation. She also beats her fists against him to get him to stop.
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May 14, 2014 03:22
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Fair enough, I haven't read the books since DwD came out, so my memories of the exact scenes aren't sharp.
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May 14, 2014 03:27
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MisterBibs posted:Slice of (lovely) Life: A few weeks ago a lie I told to my dad some time ago had came out. It wasn't a big one, but my dad was hurt by it and I felt like poo poo. He even flat-out asked me if there were any more lies that I had. I told him no.
CloseFriend fucked around with this message at 03:41 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 03:29
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I love the Jaime/Cersei scene. It's bitter, cruel, and a little bit funny. Also it pissed off a bunch of nerds and that's always welcome.
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May 14, 2014 03:31
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Maarak posted:many good words in a good post I'm glad I'm having this discussion here and not in its thread in the other forum. Magic Hate Ball posted:I love the Jaime/Cersei scene. It's bitter, cruel, and a little bit funny. Also it pissed off a bunch of nerds and that's always welcome.
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May 14, 2014 03:32
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TwistedLadder posted:I was pretty uncomfortable during the Dany/Drogo scene, because it's hugely apparent that she's really not comfortable with it but feels she has no choice. The Jaime/Cersei scene was not the most intense rape scene I've ever seen but holy poo poo was it really upsetting. 
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May 14, 2014 03:39
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TwistedLadder posted:Not to knock anybody's personal taste, but I'm going to go ahead and say that anyone saying they loved a rape scene is pretty loving weird and a little upsetting. Oh come on, it's The Bad People Show, starring A Bunch Of Awful People Doing Terrible Things. That Jaime is being put in a light of redemption only makes it more interesting - he did a terrible thing and yet he's defending his brother, who everyone hates and wants to die, as well as the whole bit with Giant Tilda Swinton. These are people born from cruelty, and raised in cruelty, and they play out their differences and conflicts via cruelty. I'm not loving the rape, I'm loving the character dynamics, and the harsh actions of the show. It did not seem to be an unnecessary scene. Magic Hate Ball fucked around with this message at 03:53 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 03:42
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This reminds me of when John Landis went to the funeral of the two children killed by his negligence and embarked on a long, drug-fueled advertisement for the Twilight Zone movie.
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May 14, 2014 03:42
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CloseFriend posted:This reminds me of when John Landis went to the funeral of the two children killed by his negligence and embarked on a long, drug-fueled advertisement for the Twilight Zone movie. It was Vic Morrow's funeral, which is trashy, but not quite as trashy as ruining a child's funeral.
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May 14, 2014 03:51
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Wait, that actually happened?
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May 14, 2014 03:55
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Precambrian posted:It was Vic Morrow's funeral, which is trashy, but not quite as trashy as ruining a child's funeral.
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May 14, 2014 03:56
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Egbert Souse posted:Almost done remastering another one of my college shorts. Pull da string! Pull da string!
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May 14, 2014 04:07
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Pull da string! Pull da string! I thought this same thing. Haha.
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May 14, 2014 04:09
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A friend from school posted "RIP H.R. Giger and Gambit" because he was upset about them announcing Channing Tatum is going to play Gambit. Nothing but class class class.
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May 14, 2014 04:42
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People who hate Channing Tatum in 2014 are garbage people.
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May 14, 2014 04:46
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Tatum playing Gambit is really worse for him than it is for Gambit
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May 14, 2014 04:47
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TheBigBudgetSequel posted:A friend from school posted "RIP H.R. Giger and Gambit" because he was upset about them announcing Channing Tatum is going to play Gambit. Personally, I don't see the big deal about Tatum as Gambit. (I see him as more of a Colossus or a Juggernaut, but whatever.) However, I do think that like anyone else, he'll look lame as hell if they try to give him that Jim Lee face-protector thing. Also, depending on how they do the costume, there's a good chance he'll end up looking like a more muscular version of this…  And I actually like Gambit. FishBulb posted:Tatum playing Gambit is really worse for him than it is for Gambit 
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May 14, 2014 04:50
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FishBulb posted:Tatum playing Gambit is really worse for him than it is for Gambit Have you seen the commercials for the new Wachowskis Joint?
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May 14, 2014 04:50
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Who will Jonah Hill play? Someone suggested Doop.
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May 14, 2014 04:51
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Holy poo poo if Jonah Hill plays Doop my life will be complete. e: comedy option: Jonah Hill as Quentin Quire
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May 14, 2014 04:53
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The MSJ posted:Who will Jonah Hill play? Someone suggested Doop. Basically, I want to see the X-Men get Batman 66-ed.
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May 14, 2014 04:53
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FishBulb posted:Tatum playing Gambit is really worse for him than it is for Gambit Kinda agreed. He'd probably be better than his material. HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Have you seen the commercials for the new Wachowskis Joint? I'm going to take a wild guess and say what he's playing there offers him more of a unique chance to play a more interesting character than what Gambit might be barring a good creative team. And I used to like Gambit in the books.
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May 14, 2014 04:55
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He's apparently wanted to play Gambit for years, so I think this is more personal fulfillment than anything. Though yeah, I think he's at the point where he doesn't need to do a superhero movie unless he really wants to. He's Channing Tatum, he's awesome.
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May 14, 2014 04:58
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You know what? New Jack city is still pretty badass.
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May 14, 2014 05:01
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I always thought Gambit could be a good character if his confidence was false bravado masking an absolute void of self esteem, kind of like Irvine Kinneas in Final Fantasy VIII or The Schofield Kid in Unforgiven. Also, he'd look less like a 90s-era dipshit if they cut his trench coat at the knees. Basically, I just think Gambit is tantalizingly close to being a good character. EDIT: But then, I also think Wolverine should basically just be Sanjuro with claws. CloseFriend fucked around with this message at 05:07 on May 14, 2014 |
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May 14, 2014 05:03
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I don't think this is that bad, if anything this is encouraging people to come out and ask him questions about Giger.
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May 14, 2014 05:05
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Have you seen the commercials for the new Wachowskis Joint? No?
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May 14, 2014 05:06
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He had a good first series that was fun written by Fabian Niceza. If a little odd. He's basically a charming thief, could be cool if they put in a bit of Indy or Han. Here's hoping it's something like a Gambit and Rogue go on a trip with his past in the Thieves Guild catching up with him and his ex-wife Belladonna hunting him down. Lower key than world demolishing stuff.
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May 14, 2014 05:09
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CelticPredator posted:People who hate Channing Tatum in 2014 are garbage people. No only that, but Gambit is the shittiest loving character, why the hell do people care so much? Gambit is just an awful relic of notoriously lovely 90s comics.
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May 14, 2014 05:20
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