|
Scythe on HMP is going to be fine for anyone who has ever played an FPS in their life. It gets hard, but the levels also tend to be very short, which encourages the player to try again and improve.
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 05:32
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 09:36 |
|
|
Fag Boy Jim posted:Scythe is a really good choice for Baby's First WAD. Hellbound is terrible except as an exercise in gawking at the cool vanilla architecture in -nomonsters. Even if it wasn't bad, I still wouldn't recommend it as someone's first .wad I absolutely do not get this ongoing sentiment that Hellbound is some sort of travesty. I'm so bad at Doom that I have the resurrect command bound to backspace in GZDoom, and I had no problems getting to like, map 25 without dying. Scythe however quickly ramps things up until it's eventually at "are you loving kidding me" levels. Another one is Hell Revealed 2. It's considered a classic, but seriously, how in the gently caress are you supposed to get out of map loving one in that? No matter what direction I run, no matter what strategy I use, no matter how hard I try to get infighting going at a level that could possibly save me, something manages to kill me two minutes in every time. I get that some people are really loving good, but is being able to handle that kind of poo poo considered the norm? And then, if so, why the hate for Hellbound???
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 05:32
|
|
|
Scythe also has Run From It, which would just be cruel to subject a newbie to. I mean, it's kind of cruel to subject anyone to that, but y'know.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 05:45
|
|
|
Hellbound is less overly hard and more overly long. All the maps are huge and with hundreds of enemies, and I don't really think that's very true of vanilla Doom 2, where most of the maps aren't particularly large or overstuffed like that.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 05:52
|
|
|
wa27 posted:Wow, look at that 3DR logo.   Not big on it being off-center like that.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 06:44
|
|
|
So, checking out the DNF files from here, I was reading the PC Gamer November 1997 article and they talked about Bombshell a little bit in that she was going to be a minor character in DNF, and that she was from a previous game that got scrapped (inspired by Barb Wire the film, which is probably something that should have tipped them off to it being bad before it got scrapped, but it was the late '90's I suppose). There's a lot of cool stuff in those collections.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 07:14
|
|
Chinese Tony Danza posted:I absolutely do not get this ongoing sentiment that Hellbound is some sort of travesty. I'm so bad at Doom that I have the resurrect command bound to backspace in GZDoom, and I had no problems getting to like, map 25 without dying. Scythe however quickly ramps things up until it's eventually at "are you loving kidding me" levels. Another one is Hell Revealed 2. It's considered a classic, but seriously, how in the gently caress are you supposed to get out of map loving one in that? No matter what direction I run, no matter what strategy I use, no matter how hard I try to get infighting going at a level that could possibly save me, something manages to kill me two minutes in every time. I get that some people are really loving good, but is being able to handle that kind of poo poo considered the norm? And then, if so, why the hate for Hellbound??? I don't really think Hellbound is difficult, but it does seem sort of boring. Really nice looking architecture (and I appreciate the silent narrative that the levels tell, like Hell's progressing invasion), but all the author's attention seemed to be on the maps and not what was in the maps. A lot of fights feel like the enemy types were randomly chosen, with no consideration to their strengths/weaknesses. Here are a bunch of demons and former humans positioned in such a way that they immediately begin infighting; here's a bunch of Arachnotrons getting caught up on the geometry; here are some Revenants in a cramped area where their homing missiles are worthless. There often seemed to be way too many enemies used at any given time, too, so all of them get in each other's way and fighting them simply devolves into shooting in the enemy mass, non-stop.
|
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 07:17
|
|
Fag Boy Jim posted:Scythe on HMP is going to be fine for anyone who has ever played an FPS in their life. It gets hard, but the levels also tend to be very short, which encourages the player to try again and improve. Yeah, it's kinda like Hotline Miami in that regard honestly. ...it just occurred to me that Hotline Miami is basically an extra-garish top-down version of Doom. 
|
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 07:25
|
|
|
Fag Boy Jim posted:Scythe on HMP is going to be fine for anyone who has ever played an FPS in their life. It gets hard, but the levels also tend to be very short, which encourages the player to try again and improve. All of that gets thrown out the window in the last third of the wad. Where massive amounts of enemies are shoved into cramped areas and placed in scenarios that are just a slog to get through.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 07:30
|
|
Cream-of-Plenty posted:Here are a bunch of demons and former humans positioned in such a way that they immediately begin infighting; I mean, given the concept of the WAD this might have been deliberate, since I'm assuming the former humans got slaughtered.
|
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 08:12
|
|
|
As a total Doom noob, Scythe was awesome... until level... 20 or thereabouts, I think? Where I just got mobbed by a fuckin' sea of M60 toting miniboss enemies. (was playing with Terrorists!) That taught me a valuable lesson about mixing mods.  The MW2 mod seems to go well with most stuff, though! (aside from these super OP cacodemon replacements or whatever the gently caress they are. Is there a way to get rid of one specific enemy without getting deep into the game's guts?)
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 08:17
|
|
|
catlord posted:So, checking out the DNF files from here, I was reading the PC Gamer November 1997 article and they talked about Bombshell a little bit in that she was going to be a minor character in DNF, and that she was from a previous game that got scrapped (inspired by Barb Wire the film, which is probably something that should have tipped them off to it being bad before it got scrapped, but it was the late '90's I suppose). There's a lot of cool stuff in those collections.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 08:26
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Bloody screen, SO REAL! Am I the only one who finds it loving hilarious Bulletstorm was just as linear as any COD game and even had the silly arcade tally points from COD4's arcade mode? TerminusEst13 posted:Speaking of engines If Bethesda's legal team is still stupid as they were when they went after Notch for his Scrolls game, this is going to be a toughie. (There also needs to be a proper Bioshock demake, dammit.) quote:Bombshell stuff It sounds like they're waiting for Gearbox to stop being morons, so maybe once the dust clears, we'll get a Duke Nukem remake. I really loving pray they don't put lovely platforming in this. quote:And also, Scythe I cannot get past this elevator ambush in Scythe2, mostly because I'm a dumbass and put AEOD6 on top of it, so instead of getting a chance with what I assume are Hellknights and Barons of Hell, I get mobbed by mechs, angry ghosts, mutants, and zombie robots with hitscan explosives. JackMackerel fucked around with this message at 08:57 on May 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 08:54
|
|
|
JackMackerel posted:Am I the only one who finds it loving hilarious Bulletstorm was just as linear as any COD game and even had the silly arcade tally points from COD4's arcade mode? The main difference being that Bulletstorm is actually fun.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 09:03
|
|
|
KozmoNaut posted:The main difference being that Bulletstorm is actually fun. And the more you pull stupid and hilarious combos, the better the gameplay is, giving you more points to get more powerful stuff to keep up. Bulletstorm is only a cover fps if you are a pussy 
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 09:53
|
|
|
Chinese Tony Danza posted:Scythe however quickly ramps things up until it's eventually at "are you loving kidding me" levels. I'm gonna pimp Scimitar as being "Scythe, but easier", though of course it only has 20 levels. Shadow Hog posted:The question is, was it a better or worse teaser trailer for the game than this classic? That trailer was a work of genius that will never be surpassed. Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 12:07 on May 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 12:05
|
|
|
catlord posted:I'm intrigued, but that was a super lovely trailer. The second half was completely pointless, at least the first half set up the story. Although, if you do watch it, stick around, there's an amusing bit of what I assume to be an outtake in there. Yeah, they could have at least shown some of the screenshots from their website. All I expect from this game is a fast paced, arcadey twin stick shooter. If they can deliver that at a good price then more power to them.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 12:26
|
|
|
Guillermus posted:And the more you pull stupid and hilarious combos, the better the gameplay is, giving you more points to get more powerful stuff to keep up. Bulletstorm is only a cover fps if you are a pussy It's similar to Red Faction: Armageddon like that (yeah yeah, third person and way too recent for this thread, I know). You can play through the whole game using the assault rifle, shotgun and pistols, while ducking and weaving behind cover and taking potshots at the enemies. But why would you do that? Literally the first weapon you pick up off the ground will level entire buildings in one or two shots, ammo is plentiful and the weapons only get more creative and destructive the further you go into the game. And the weapon with the biggest potential for fun and destruction has unlimited ammo and is up there with Half-Life 2's gravity gun.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 13:10
|
|
|
 First thought after seeing that trailer... Is one a riff on the other or something?
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 14:36
|
|
|
KozmoNaut posted:The main difference being that Bulletstorm is actually fun. There were some parts that I hated, and starting a new game is really loving painful because it takes like 40 minutes to actually open up and give you the point score bracelet and the grapple hook and let you really start killing dudes with flair. But drat, that game was pretty drat fun. One of the better FPS of recent years, and it did pretty horrible sales.  If it wasn't for Epic, it would have been the end of the developer.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 17:17
|
|
|
JackMackerel posted:If Bethesda's legal team is still stupid as they were when they went after Notch for his Scrolls game, this is going to be a toughie. Doom's source code was released under the GNU GPL so it's literally free for anyone to do what they want with, selling or otherwise. Wikipedia posted:Software under the GPL may be run for all purposes, including commercial purposes and even as a tool for creating proprietary software, for example when using GPL-licensed compilers. Users or companies who distribute GPL-licensed works (e.g. software), may charge a fee for copies or give them free of charge. [...] The FSF argues that freedom-respecting free software should also not restrict commercial use and distribution (including redistribution): the GPL explicitly states that GPL works may be sold at any price.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 18:00
|
|
|
KozmoNaut posted:But why would you do that? Literally the first weapon you pick up off the ground will level entire buildings in one or two shots The assault rifle wasn't THAT powerful. Also, kicking poo poo after pulling it towards you usually became hit-or-miss. I really wish Epic hadn't hosed it over and screwed over any chance of a sequel. It's the game Borderlands wants to be. ^ Oh, there we go. It shouldn't be too hard to make sure no one gets legally angry about that engine... JackMackerel fucked around with this message at 18:18 on May 15, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 18:12
|
|
|
Convex posted:Doom's source code was released under the GNU GPL so it's literally free for anyone to do what they want with, selling or otherwise. Thanks, Carmack. 
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 18:14
|
|
|
Convex posted:Doom's source code was released under the GNU GPL so it's literally free for anyone to do what they want with, selling or otherwise.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 18:21
|
|
|
ExMortis posted:Is Hellbound that flavor of the month thing from a while back with really finely detailed but massively overlong levels where every single fight is 20 hell knights and 50 pinkies? Why don't we recommend something actually good and smartly designed like Scythe? Why are we recommending anything? Yeah, this post might also be quite relevant to discussion. Note : Scythe, first and foremost. I can think of no worse suggestion than Hellbound for someone new to Doom. Something vital, something punchy is required to grab people by the lapels and shout "This is Doom, this is what Doom does - Doom plays hard, fast and smart". I think someone playing Hellbound, especially without having played the original Doom 2 maps, would come away from it without really understanding the point of it. Maybe they saw something pretty, but also something concerned with a sense of spectacle over raw, intelligent, pure gameplay (presumably the thing they're coming to Doom to get away from). To put things another way... that first experience is vitally important. If you find Scythe's starting maps too hard, you can turn down the difficulty. If you find Hellbound boring, there's not much you can do apart from probably forget about the game. (I also sort of like the notion of people seeing that infamous bump in difficulty - like a "one day you might be able to handle this" Demons' Souls tutorial boss sort of thing) I think there's a growing notion that's really enthused with the notion of Doom as an engine, as a framework, as a carte blanche style game that's had so many mods over the years that you can sort of pick and choose what you like - and along with those, the tech sort of side which loves to see just what can be done with all the sourceports. This notion clashes heads frequently with those attracted to Doom for its raw focused gameplay, for that intelligent viscera, for smart maps, for speedruns. I think it's really very hard to be in both camps on this (and it's probably incredibly obvious which camp I'm in!). Perhaps this is the argument we're seeing right now, and I sort of wonder if DECK will help with this.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 19:06
|
|
|
JackMackerel posted:The assault rifle wasn't THAT powerful. Also, kicking poo poo after pulling it towards you usually became hit-or-miss. I was talking about Red Faction: Armageddon, actually In that game, you start with a piss-ant assault rifle, but like 30 seconds in you pick up a plasma cannon. It will quite literally level a building in one or two shots, and they don't even have to be particularly well-placed. The arsenal only escalates from there, until you're playing around with nano rifles, magnet guns and singularity cannons, which is exactly as destructive as it sounds.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 19:33
|
|
|
I actually really, really like Scythe's bump in difficulty--it grabs you by the balls and yanks you really hard, but it's not impossible. In fact, I think it's probably the best way to do a slaughtermap, since it actually shows you everything you need to do in order to beat it. It's intimidating, it's raw, but there's a clear order to do things in, and if you calm down and take a moment to breathe it becomes very doable. I recently had the pleasure of watching a friend stream through going through Scythe for the first time in a long long long while, and once he hit Fear he started swearing up a storm. ...But he nailed it on his first try, despite dying constantly in earlier levels. I think that's a vital part of the Doom experience--something that looks difficult as hell at first, and it makes you wonder "how the gently caress am I supposed to do this?". And then you do it.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 19:41
|
|
|
I forgot which one it was, but the Scythe map that has an UV monster count of 666 is basically Baby's Intro to Slaughtermaps: It's a really good map to play if you don't understand how someone could possibly do one of those four-digit monster count maps. edit: oh yeah, it's Fear. Great map.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 19:43
|
|
|
That Ignorant Sap posted:
What game is the image on the right from?
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 19:44
|
|
|
Tiger Schwert posted:I think there's a growing notion that's really enthused with the notion of Doom as an engine, as a framework, as a carte blanche style game that's had so many mods over the years that you can sort of pick and choose what you like - and along with those, the tech sort of side which loves to see just what can be done with all the sourceports. This notion clashes heads frequently with those attracted to Doom for its raw focused gameplay, for that intelligent viscera, for smart maps, for speedruns. I think it's really very hard to be in both camps on this (and it's probably incredibly obvious which camp I'm in!). Perhaps this is the argument we're seeing right now, and I sort of wonder if DECK will help with this. Lmao dude all you really have to do is not be bothered by people creating things for the Doom engine that you do not like. It does not affect you in the least.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 19:47
|
|
|
Yodzilla posted:What game is the image on the right from? Saints Row 4, the Christmas(?) special.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
Yodzilla posted:What game is the image on the right from? Saints Row 4 Xmas DLC. It's Future Shaundi.
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 19:55
|
|
|
Bathtub Cheese posted:Lmao dude all you really have to do is not be bothered by people creating things for the Doom engine that you do not like. It does not affect you in the least. What? Saying that there are two distinct camps that like Doom, those that love it for its original gameplay and those that love to tweak it and make it something else, has absolutely nothing to do with being bothered. I am in the completely opposite camp as him and love playing and making gameplay mods and he's still pretty much right so ???
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 20:00
|
|
|
TerminusEst13 posted:What? Tiger Schwert posted:This notion clashes heads frequently with those attracted to Doom for its raw focused gameplay, for that intelligent viscera, for smart maps, for speedruns. I think it's really very hard to be in both camps on this (and it's probably incredibly obvious which camp I'm in!). Perhaps this is the argument we're seeing right now, and I sort of wonder if DECK will help with this. There's no one "clashing heads" over this until it devolves into "Stop Liking What I Don't Like".
|
|
#
?
May 15, 2014 22:34
|
|
|
I don't have strong opinions on any of this stuff because I haven't played many Doom single player map packs. lizardhunt fucked around with this message at 02:02 on May 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2014 00:45
|
|
|
Shadow Hog posted:The question is, was it a better or worse teaser trailer for the game than this classic? Well, it had something other than the logos, but it didn't have Grabbag. I'm going to have to say worse for that alone. Sorry, Bombshell, but that song just kicks insane amounts of rear end.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2014 01:08
|
|
|
Do I have to compile ECWolf from source to get the automap?
|
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2014 01:40
|
|
|
SALT CURES HAM posted:Do I have to compile ECWolf from source to get the automap? No, if you got to where the Devbuilds of GZDoom are? That site has Devbuilds of ECWolf too. Just grab the latest from there. Edit: Here you go, for Windows. Edit 2: vv Edit 3: No it's not, sorry about that. catlord fucked around with this message at 01:58 on May 16, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 16, 2014 01:51
|
|
Thanks, I actually didn't know there was a devbuild site. It'd be cool if the ECWolf site mentioned it.  e: Jesus, Episode 1 Floor 10 is huge. Also confusing, but mostly just huge. SALT CURES HAM fucked around with this message at 02:27 on May 16, 2014 |
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2014 01:53
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 29, 2024 09:36 |
|
|
SALT CURES HAM posted:I mean, given the concept of the WAD this might have been deliberate, since I'm assuming the former humans got slaughtered. But former humans are the best enemies.
|
|
#
?
May 16, 2014 05:34
|
|
