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I really liked the idea that Auri might have a more metaphysical interpretation/role in the story and if it turns out she is just a failed student whose mind was broken by magic I will be a little disappointed.
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Apr 27, 2014 18:35
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Why couldn't she be both?
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Apr 28, 2014 09:42
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Try as I might, I cannot get over how irritating Kvothe and Denna are.
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Apr 28, 2014 14:15
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I think the underlying thing is about naming and the effects if names. Kvothe named Auri as I recall. The existing books are about the effects of his having renamed himself and the novella may be about having named Auri.
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Apr 28, 2014 19:13
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Saki posted:Try as I might, I cannot get over how irritating Kvothe and Denna are. The only thing that gets me through it is the considerable evidence that there are people in the text who agree. Hell, Bast basically cuts into the narration to go 'yo, she had a crooked goddamn nose, you obsessive freak' and it's clear that even grown up Kvothe realizes that hey, he was an emotionally hosed up 16 year latching onto the first female he'd met outside of a survival context in several years and has literally no way to process the resulting feelings. And Denna, pretty hosed up herself, has no idea how to handle Kvothe and her own agenda that she doesn't really need to tell him about soooo... Basically read Kvothe as this weird dumbshit savant, like an inverse Forrest Gump.
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Apr 29, 2014 07:21
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To me, the scene that sells it is when the eternal grad student guy sees the fiddler woman perform, is smitten, and then approaches her straight forwardly and expresses his interest. I think it is soon followed by all of Kvothe's friends marveling at what a goddamn idiot he is to not even be capable of admitting he likes Denna.
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Apr 29, 2014 15:44
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I think the irritating part of the narration is that we're constantly told Kvothe is a brilliant genius but he never once does anything that really sticks out as clever besides rolling a perfect 20 on all his skill checks.
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Apr 30, 2014 00:45
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Above Our Own posted:I think the irritating part of the narration is that we're constantly told Kvothe is a brilliant genius but he never once does anything that really sticks out as clever besides rolling a perfect 20 on all his skill checks. The triple binding to defeat the draccus at Trebon was pretty cleverly done.
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Apr 30, 2014 01:17
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Above Our Own posted:I think the irritating part of the narration is that we're constantly told Kvothe is a brilliant genius but he never once does anything that really sticks out as clever besides rolling a perfect 20 on all his skill checks. Or maybe we just haven't been shown the real crazy stuff yet, which is probably true.
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Apr 30, 2014 04:29
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Above Our Own posted:I think the irritating part of the narration is that we're constantly told Kvothe is a brilliant genius but he never once does anything that really sticks out as clever besides rolling a perfect 20 on all his skill checks. Its the difficulty of writing such superior people, you have to think of ways to show it. Kvothe has atleast been portrayed as a genius musician, and at the very least a genius at sympathy even if there are people stronger than him at it in the series. He did make that anti arrow contraption. I mean what would you like to see as examples of his genius? So far it seems like he is actually a genius at music and magic and is more of a 'knows a lot of stuff' genius at the rest of life.
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Apr 30, 2014 16:59
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Plus, who we actually encounter is Kote, not Kvothe. This does not make him an unreliable narrator or something, but that change in name and the effects of naming are not nothing.
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Apr 30, 2014 20:19
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Jerkface posted:Its the difficulty of writing such superior people, you have to think of ways to show it. Kvothe has atleast been portrayed as a genius musician, and at the very least a genius at sympathy even if there are people stronger than him at it in the series. He did make that anti arrow contraption. I mean what would you like to see as examples of his genius? So far it seems like he is actually a genius at music and magic and is more of a 'knows a lot of stuff' genius at the rest of life. I actually think the arrow thing is a good example of how poorly the genius shtick is done. It's such a useful and obvious application of sympathy that you'd think it would be as commonplace as the techno-magic refrigerators and alarm systems. Kvothe is only brilliant by comparison; everyone else in the world seems stupid. e. To give some comparisons, I think some well written clever characters in fantasy are Cudgel from Jack Vance's works or Tyrion from A Song of Ice and Fire. Above Our Own fucked around with this message at 03:22 on May 1, 2014 |
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May 1, 2014 03:19
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Above Our Own posted:I actually think the arrow thing is a good example of how poorly the genius shtick is done. It's such a useful and obvious application of sympathy that you'd think it would be as commonplace as the techno-magic refrigerators and alarm systems. Kvothe is only brilliant by comparison; everyone else in the world seems stupid. We're never really told that he's a genius though. We're told that he's good at stories, well, check, since Kote/Kvothe is narrating and Rothfuss writes them and that's Rothfuss' thing. We're told he's good at music, that bit where he gets his pipes is a reasonably fun display of that. We're told he's good at the technical aspects of sympathy, but not best in the world. His loanshark can outmatch him and when he goes heads up against his fellow students he only wins because he's a dumbass and willing to draw too much of his own body heat just to prove he's got a bigger magic dick. Kote tells us this. THen as the series goes on he's lucky enough to be pretty well educated. He does some do some outside the box thinking; cheating through the exams, killing the dragon, rescuing what's her face from the magic fire, the arrow trap which I'll grant because, hey, someone has to think of these things. In basically every other way the text is telling us that he's a grade A idiot. A good 75% of his social interactions end in disaster because he didn't socialize at all for good portions of his adolescence (which he's just barely coming out of as it is) and basing most of how he acts on all the stories he's heard/read/acted. And a lot of his friends are more than willing to call him out on it.
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May 2, 2014 17:32
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...
Krakkles fucked around with this message at 17:23 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 15:37
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Person does typo. I'm not going to watch two hours of people playing D&D to find out if there's anything else going on here; who cares about a loving typo
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May 5, 2014 16:15
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Whalley posted:Person does typo. I'm not going to watch two hours of people playing D&D to find out if there's anything else going on here; who cares about a loving typo \/ Jesus Christ sorry I won't laugh at the poor author again 
Krakkles fucked around with this message at 17:24 on May 5, 2014 |
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May 5, 2014 17:18
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Krakkles posted:Published author "does (two) typo(s)". It's funny, sorry you can't see that. Because authors never make typos or post on Facebook from mobile devices?
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May 5, 2014 17:20
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Krakkles posted:Published author "does (two) typo(s)". It's funny, sorry you can't see that.
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May 5, 2014 20:40
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Goddamn, I cant believe that I put off reading these for so long, some of the most enjoyable books I've read in quite a long time.
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May 5, 2014 23:04
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Morning posted:Goddamn, I cant believe that I put off reading these for so long, some of the most enjoyable books I've read in quite a long time. Agreed. Saw this thread last week and bought the first book. Finished the second tonight. Truly enjoyed both.
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May 11, 2014 08:43
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Huh, I'm eager to see if he can write about someone other than Kvothe. If it's about Auri the tone should be quite different, hopefully without the melodramatic woe is me thing his other books have. Kvothe is a very "scientific" character in my mind. Everything must be explained and understood, mysteries must be solved, horizons expanded etc. Auri handles the world differently and it should reflect in how the book is written .. I hope.
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May 11, 2014 17:01
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I just finished the second book in the Kingkiller Chronicles and was really disappointed. It was going well and seemed to be as good as the first book, then the Maer sends Kvothe to go hunt bandits. Queue seemingly endless chapters of Kvothe slogging through forests page after page, finding the bandits for a brief 3 paragraph fight scene, slogging through the Fae and having cringey to read sex with Felurian, then slogging through Ademre getting trained for something that could have been summarized in 10 pages instead of 100. Like 50% of the book felt like pointless filler and I was so relieved when Kvothe found the fake Edema Ruh and slaughtered them all. Felt like the first time in hours of reading that he did anything of worth. Really, really painful to read through especially considering every chapter felt like Rothfuss was awkwardly inserting another sex scene with Kvothe and beautiful women who are absolutely in love with him wherever he goes. Also while I agree that Rothfuss is a great writer, these books reek of Mary Sue scenarios where the white knight wins in the end and gets m'lady.
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May 15, 2014 20:28
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Doltos posted:I just finished the second book in the Kingkiller Chronicles and was really disappointed. It was going well and seemed to be as good as the first book, then the Maer sends Kvothe to go hunt bandits. i would agree if not for the fact that he's actually pretty incompetent (or at least not nearly as awesome as he pretends to be) and gets by, generally, on dumb luck
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May 15, 2014 21:31
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And apparently he doesn't get the girl either.
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May 16, 2014 00:47
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treeboy posted:i would agree if not for the fact that he's actually pretty incompetent (or at least not nearly as awesome as he pretends to be) and gets by, generally, on dumb luck True, in the parts of the story where he even states that his prowess is overblown. My issue is that he's constantly surrounded by beautiful women that want to gently caress him or elderly women that are always so impressed by how humble he is. It wouldn't be so bad if it was a one off thing like Felurian, but then Rothfuss added in that tavern wench, the two Ademre girls, and all the beautiful students that flirted with him at the university. That makes me feel like he's the white knight winning out in the end, because every woman loves him because he's all respectful and nice towards them. Like Rothfuss has to specifically mention how chivalrous Kvothe is every single time he's around a woman, and how boorish guys like Ambrose are (and how they never get the woman because of it). Very cringey. But my main complaint about the book was how it seemed like he rambled for 300 pages between the hunt for the bandits, Kvothe going through the Fae, and the stupid, stupid, stupidly loving boring Ademre storyline. It makes me not want to re-read the book or recommend it to others.
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May 16, 2014 15:20
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Perhaps you could elaborate by providing examples of sex in books where you don't "cringe". Because I'm royally tired of that complaint from goons.
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May 16, 2014 21:24
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coyo7e posted:Perhaps you could elaborate by providing examples of sex in books where you don't "cringe". Because I'm royally tired of that complaint from goons. Guy Gavriel Kay's Tigana features a lot of non-cringey sex. So does ASoIaF, to use a more popular (and probably divisive) example.
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May 16, 2014 23:47
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coyo7e posted:Perhaps you could elaborate by providing examples of sex in books where you don't "cringe". Because I'm royally tired of that complaint from goons. Surely we can make an exception for Felurian. She literally talks about sex like bad martial arts moves ~flying tiger dragon punch~. 'Hundred Lashes' or whatever it was.
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May 17, 2014 01:18
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coyo7e posted:Perhaps you could elaborate by providing examples of sex in books where you don't "cringe". Because I'm royally tired of that complaint from goons.
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May 17, 2014 04:16
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those are both very bad
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May 17, 2014 04:25
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Not by comparison to the rothfuss one
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May 17, 2014 05:18
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Strategic Tea posted:Surely we can make an exception for Felurian. She literally talks about sex like bad martial arts moves ~flying tiger dragon punch~. 'Hundred Lashes' or whatever it was. I'm not a real fan of that section myself, but the silly names for sex moves scans pretty well with my (vague) memory of the Kama Sutra and other related texts.
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May 17, 2014 12:17
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I liked how unreal and weird they made things. If you're barely hanging on to your life and sanity as you live with some kind of sex goddess in an alternate reality, poo poo should be surreal. *shrug* Also, that section wasn't just sex stuff for hundreds of pages. There was the evil tree. There was the weaving of the shroud, which was kind of a cool insight into how magic works. I seem to remember there also being stuff that hinted to how the hell the world works. It's been a while since I read it.
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May 17, 2014 13:18
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Doltos posted:Also while I agree that Rothfuss is a great writer, these books reek of Mary Sue scenarios where the white knight wins in the end and gets m'lady. See, I'd agree only Kvothe then goes up to Denna and is like 'yo, I'm an awesome sex haver now.' *tips fedora* 'That's what you really want right?' And she blows him off 'cause she's pissed and he's all 'but you hang out with dudes all the time, isn't this fair?' To which she responds, basically 'no, because I'm not a whore, that's a line I drew for myself a long time ago' which goes back to that encounter she had with the girl in the city where she sat her down and was like 'here's how you be me, it's super dangerous and you might get raped but at least you're not definitely selling yourself on the streets for the rest of your life.' And then Kvothe is like 'but they beat you, let me protect you my little china doll' and she's like 'so I once had a black eye, you're back is covered in goddamn scars. You loving rear end, you don't know my life or what I do gently caress off. You don't get to be all humblebraggy about the insane poo poo you go through to learn magic and then lecture me for not settling down to be your domestic bitch.' Which, if we buy Denna as deep cover agent for secret society means quite a lot. All of which went over Kvothe's head. Again this story only works because Kvothe seems like the awesome wonderboy who is actually really lovely at applying his skill because he's loving terrible at reading real people that aren't in stories. He basically gets by because his friends take pity on him. I'm not saying that section wasn't ridiculously long and all, and the sword training bit dragged as well, but 'Kvothe is a Mary Sue who has all the good things happen to him' is really not justifiably part of the story. We've known from the start that a. this doesn't end well and b. it's basically Kvothe's fault. I mean, you can criticize the pacing for sure, but you can't really say that the text doesn't agree with you w/r/t how dumb our boy wonder is.
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May 17, 2014 15:58
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Above Our Own posted:Sure, Scott Lynch's sex scene in Red Seas Under Red Skies, or Joe Ambercrombie's scene between Logan and Ferro in The Blade Itself are some contemporary authors in the same genre. These 2 are the worst examples you could come up with. Both Lunch and Abercrombie were criticized for the terribly written scenes. Even Sidney Sheldon wrote better sex scenes than all of these fantasy authors combined.
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May 19, 2014 10:30
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Those are the only other fantasy sex scenes I've read and I think they're better than the Felurian horseshit!
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May 19, 2014 13:01
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Anarkii posted:Both Lunch and Abercrombie were criticized for the terribly written scenes. It works really well for Abercrombie. It's not really meant to turn you on or make you feel better about the characters so much as to underline that they are broken.
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May 19, 2014 15:30
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the JJ posted:I'm not saying that section wasn't ridiculously long and all, and the sword training bit dragged as well, but 'Kvothe is a Mary Sue who has all the good things happen to him' is really not justifiably part of the story. We've known from the start that a. this doesn't end well and b. it's basically Kvothe's fault. I mean, you can criticize the pacing for sure, but you can't really say that the text doesn't agree with you w/r/t how dumb our boy wonder is. Granted people keep coming back to how Kvothe fucks up constantly so he can't be a Mary Sue, but almost every single opinion that Kvothe has about women simply reeks of white knight horse poo poo. Like you said yourself, even Denna was like okay hold up a second how is my life any different than yours? You're still friendzoned for the same reasons and you're not going anywhere by being super charming/nice to me other than having me as a friend. I'd give it a pass but Rothfuss seems to be extremely active in internet feminism and it blatantly spills into his books. I'd be okay with Kvothe not getting Denna except that he makes it so only nice guys get the girl, constantly and always. Sim and Fela, the two mercenaries he hunted bandits with, the Maer and Lackless. Every haughty noble he meets is loving terrible with women or only attracts those other types of women. Women, sex, and how you should treat women to get sex seems to pop up regularly as the main motif in the story, constantly alongside Kvothe's training to become who he is. I dunno, I really don't want to harp on the cringey sex since I don't think it's the main fault of the story. It's just an annoying aspect of it. My main gripe really is how much the second book dragged with Ademre, hunting bandits, and Felurian in the fae. Not a lot of it was interesting and most of it was laborious to get through. The first book was fun, the second book was a chore. I hope the third one is just straight action.
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May 19, 2014 17:04
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I generally get the feeling that we're supposed to applaud Kvothe (and by extension Rothfuss) for not having completely terrible views, like how he SO wasn't going to rape that girl when he was on the no-inhibitions drugs. I feel like the author jumps through hoops to try and draw attention to his progressivism.
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May 20, 2014 01:14
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Kvothe's the one telling the story, though, so this all might just be a long "look how full of himself he is" sort of thing.
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May 20, 2014 01:18
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