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The Chinese LGB has always been weird. I think it has an extremely small radius to the point of being ineffectual. @Magni: * I agree with at a minimum changing out the Guntank for either a Close Arrow or a I-Hawk. BIHO-Close Arrow-IHAWK PIP II would give you assault AA, mobile IR, and helo-sniping/area defense respectively. That's pretty much everything. * I have doubts about your infantry lineup. You've got three support infantry, militia, and Haebyung in Hueys. Your ability to attack towns is pretty questionable absent massive firepower in support. Nothing wrong with Haebyung but their utility as helicopter infantry is doubtful. The UH-1H is too slow and fragile for doing anything remotely risky, and lacks any redeeming value in terms of firepower once troops are offloaded. Haebyung in LVTP-7 would work better for assault and maneuver, while Hudou-Ren or Kutei in KV-107s make far better helicopter infantry. I would consider changing the Haebyungs to LVTP-7 and exchanging the m67 RCL for Hudou-Ren in KV-107. * The M113 I-TOW seems unnecessary. You have the TOW-2 jeeps for high end targets and mobile combat, and the Chu-Mats for defensive purposes. That would open up a slot for a Slugger or m113 recoilless.
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May 16, 2014 15:56
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Yet more patch: Not much notable change except Leo 1 recon tank and AP buff to T-64BM and Leo 2A1. Another thing we'll probably see next week: Strop 2 and Gepard will both be able to fire their guns and missiles at the same time. quote:"BUG FIX wrote:- enemy units will no longer speak to you (voice acting)... cause they are enemies, you know? pedro0930 fucked around with this message at 17:01 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 16:22
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Hubis posted:Personally, I would take 2 cards of the KF-16C Block 52D (ugh, WHY EUGEN?). The integrated SEAD is worth 10 points, and ideally you should bring as much of it as you can because it's one of the best things Blue Dragon (and BLUFOR) has going for it. Let your team-mates fill in some ASF if you really need more fighters. I've also had pretty good results with the SK F-4's with Mavericks in an AT role, although I've been using SK national where you get 3-per-card. Also the F-86 is kind of underwhelming -- Napalm isn't nearly as effective in RD as it was in ALB, and the F-86 only has two bombs, so you don't even get good coverage. If you want Napalm I'd go for the F-5 instead. The 203SP is mostly in because I'm currently experimenting with arty types instead of taking the standard mortars+155s combo; I'm also in a mind to test out the KM1107s, anyone got experience with them? I didn't pack the AGM Phantoms because I feel that the TOW-2s from the Cobras and jeeps are enough to deal with top-end armor. For high-end mediums and the like, there's the Kyu-Maru Shikis. Gonna take the F-5s and second SEAD KF-16 though and prolly replace the i-TOW M113s with M36s. I'm on the fence wether to replace the Guntanks with i-HAWKs or Close Arrows, though leaning on the Close Arrows. Gotta test out the Tan Sams a bit more, though, and then replace them depending on how well they do for me. TheDeadlyShoe posted:* I have doubts about your infantry lineup. You've got three support infantry, militia, and Haebyung in Hueys. Your ability to attack towns is pretty questionable absent massive firepower in support. Shame, I absolutely love the M67 teams. Hm... crazy idea time: Put the Haebyung into LVTPs, drop the M67s to trained (18 squads then) and get Hodou-Ren in KV-107s in place of the Yebigun. The M67s can do cheapo garrisson and I'd have both assault and airmobile shocktroops. Yay or nay? Magni fucked around with this message at 18:41 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 18:36
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If I'm not trying to run a 1v1 deck (and I just don't find that level of attention burden fun), with Blue Dragon I'm pretty likely to put up a lot of numbers of fighters. If I'm using five cards of planes it can get as nuts as two cards of SEAD and one of the fighters with all the slammers. It does look like the bomber Phantoms drop a pretty strong pattern of bombs that'll really mess up anything short of a tank these days with a very nice amount of coverage, they might be worth a look to see if you like them. The Tan Sams might have a place in the deck now as long range anti-helo cover that isn't slow like the I-Hawks. Close Arrows are a real solid pick because things that fly over them just die.
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May 16, 2014 18:46
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Which bomber Phantoms, the korean or the japanese ones?
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May 16, 2014 18:51
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Arglebargle III posted:The tank meta. A swarm of SEAD wiped out all the AA that was supposed to be shielding this tank push. Which side is pushing and is this before or after the death of the tank that tried to push?
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May 16, 2014 19:42
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Magni posted:Which bomber Phantoms, the korean or the japanese ones? Yes actually. I think the Korean one's pattern is a bit wider with the same damage in it, but the Japanese one gets a vulcan and some sparrows in case you want to put some more airframes in the air to beat up on a heavy air attack. They're both pretty capable seeming at almost wiping out infantry platoons in a block and being dangerous against lighter vehicles.
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May 16, 2014 20:22
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pedro0930 posted:From last page, I dug out the replay. Thanks, I'd been too lazy to dig out the replay. So basically this starts with an embarrassing opening on my part on the left. I am pretty sure I lose 100% of my opening. I beg for a panic response but pretty much assume it's all over given the horrible losses I took, and my team mates manage to respond pretty appropriately to the threat and somehow inflict proportional losses to them. I manage to re-establish a foot hold and slowly grid up the left hand side thanks to a veritable swarm of M36, sending what help I can in terms of air defense and recon everywhere else. It was a fantastic game all around.
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May 16, 2014 20:59
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Arglebargle III posted:
it's an RPD, not an AK. Looks fine! Speaking of RPDs, is the RPD even in RD? It was never very popular with the USSR or Eastern Bloc AFAIK, but it was widely used in East Asia.
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May 16, 2014 21:04
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I've been having a lot of success with a Scandinavian Mechanized deck lately. You can overwhelm pretty much anything with the sheer numbers of infantry in armored autocannon carriers. You also have spammable amounts of AA, and some strike capability as well. WZAtEqyaJVk0SrJpqXjTUvG3hZNvCyczrVjjenMrtOWfvGL/GHi0hhxw1R4JAEgCNxG7J9MomZUVjFDOhXMvMdILKllTDBDMz8dHVGEWy8peUA==
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May 16, 2014 22:30
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Justin Tyme posted:it's an RPD, not an AK. Looks fine! Most of the Chinese infantry use the RPD, IIRC. Possibly NK as well.
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May 16, 2014 23:12
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Magni posted:The 203SP is mostly in because I'm currently experimenting with arty types instead of taking the standard mortars+155s combo; I'm also in a mind to test out the KM1107s, anyone got experience with them? I didn't pack the AGM Phantoms because I feel that the TOW-2s from the Cobras and jeeps are enough to deal with top-end armor. For high-end mediums and the like, there's the Kyu-Maru Shikis. That's fine, that gives you a lot more flexibility than the old lineup. 
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May 17, 2014 00:10
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Leif. posted:I've been having a lot of success with a Scandinavian Mechanized deck lately. You can overwhelm pretty much anything with the sheer numbers of infantry in armored autocannon carriers. You also have spammable amounts of AA, and some strike capability as well. The only changes I'd make are taking RBS90 at veteran rather than hardened, because they'll do 5.2 damage instead of 4.8, which means 2 shots to down a plane instead of 3. I'd actually take 2 cards of vet RBS90. In support I'd get rid of one card of NM195 and trade the other card for LBRVB 701's, which trade a bit of offroad speed for a double missile load and a CQB machine gun. In air I'd trade the card of Drakens for a card of Viggens with AP10 cluster bombs-- but I just hate viggens and have never been able to make them work at all. In tanks I'd trade the 45 point Centurions for 15 point Centurions for triple the armor spam per point. Maybe trade a card of STRBs for a supply ship in naval as well. Seems like a fun deck I'm going to try it out.
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May 17, 2014 00:20
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Hey Xerxes, do you have a link to the spreadsheet where you were messing with tank pricing and stuff? I'm feeling like giving the mod tools a go and throwing those numbers into the game and seeing what comes of it.
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May 17, 2014 00:49
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xthetenth posted:Hey Xerxes, do you have a link to the spreadsheet where you were messing with tank pricing and stuff? I'm feeling like giving the mod tools a go and throwing those numbers into the game and seeing what comes of it. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jV9mGGgQx_WcFiKGK4t5wmq2snNvhRU4T9JkwOHXJG8/edit#gid=1593675981 e: might also need this: https://github.com/enohka/moddingSuite/releases/tag/v0.8.0 VVV That was an awesome idea. Blatantly buff those nations which pay you the most money. The community reeks of exactly the sort of crazy who would pay their left nut if it meant they would be on top of the heap. Hob_Gadling fucked around with this message at 01:50 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 01:19
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Goons, I present to you, The Eugen Forums, or, we should literally buff nations (Germany) based on that nation's real life market share of Wargame purchasers.
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May 17, 2014 01:42
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I especially liked the suggestion that FSJ '90 should have their guns buffed till they go 50-50 with Spets and Li Jian. That level of firepower without having to worry about reserves absorbing the rockets and with 10 rounds of PzF 3 is more like 40-50 points at the very least. Were I an ill-disposed sort I'd make them fire ten guaranteed kill bullets before "jamming" with a five minute reload and bring Spets and Li Jian to oneshot status. Hob_Gadling posted:https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jV9mGGgQx_WcFiKGK4t5wmq2snNvhRU4T9JkwOHXJG8/edit#gid=1593675981 Cheers! I'd been poking at the tools already (incidentally dear god). Is there any underlying formula behind it so I can do other nations according to it? (I know there's some subjective stuff such as dealing with overlaps and tanks for weird decks). Finally, is it best practice to just take the patch before the current one and just work on that? xthetenth fucked around with this message at 02:20 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 02:02
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xthetenth posted:Is there any underlying formula behind it so I can do other nations according to it? My notes on the pricing/availability: 1) Price. Top end is priced at its "correct" value. Tier below is priced at 30% off plus a little (because at equal prices quantity beats quality). Tier below that is priced at 30% off the previous tier plus a little. After that it starts to get crowded, but that's the general idea. Some parts of the pricing curve are (slightly) OP by design. The peak should be at about upper yellow-lower reds. 2) Availability. Bottom end has relatively terrible availability to compensate for their game-breakingly cheap prices. Problem of small numbers: 10->15 points is 50% increase, which is a lot. Top end has very low absolute availability but is in line with rest of the curve. Once again the curve peaks at about upper yellow-lower red tanks to make them more of a value proposition. High end is useful because it's very powerful, low end is useful because it's cheap. Middle must be slightly OP (read: above the curve) by design to promote their use. 3) Veterancy. This ties into general availability. Two types of people: trained and professionals, reflected by their base veterancy level (trained or hardened). Trained people use worse equipment but are more numerous, professionals come in smaller numbers. In practical terms this means base card values of 500 and 350 points of units, respectively. Upvetting units within a category reduces availability by 66% or 50%, respectively. Soviets get relatively less vets but relatively more tanks overall, especially in the OP territory. Since veterancy is very valuable on high unit-cost items, generally speaking you pay high availability cost for veterans. Eurocorps gets a small break here due to their tank lineup having no greens. Color coding is all Xerxes, you'll have to ask him about those. They should be based pretty much completely on frontal armor and main gun AP with some subjectivity for oddities. The key thing to keep in mind, really, is that top end tanks are useful against things with armor and should be priced accordingly. Since one point of difference in armor or AP means the difference between 10 shots to kill or 7 shots to kill the price differences should probably be pretty drastic. On bottom end tanks are useful as targets and against infantry and should be priced as such, with availability compensating for their very low price. In the middle it's a bit of column A, a bit of column B with pricing and availing depending mainly on which it is more and what sort of gameplay you want to go for. You can take whichever patch you prefer and work on it. RD probably updates quickly enough to make all your changes obsolete anyway. I'd take the latest just to get all bug fixes. Wouldn't you get the stealth silencers otherwise?
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May 17, 2014 02:13
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Come. Come share my grief in having to start from scratch on modding again because the current game has bugged Amphibious campaign Landings. Come grief with me. I'll provide the tiny violin.
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May 17, 2014 02:28
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What is with Germans and their overbearing self-consciousness about their own military prowess represented in a video game? If anything, Americans should be more upset about their garbage infantry choices and the fact that base/IP Abrams tanks are wholly unremarkable. Delta Force being the worst SF in the game seems like something that would rile Americans up like crazy (they really should rename Delta to something more generically SF like "SF Group", it would be like if Seals were called Seal Team 6) Are light infantry even classified as "shock"? They really should be if not, given they're the American equivalent of UK Paras and cost so drat much. Justin Tyme fucked around with this message at 02:41 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 02:38
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Hob_Gadling posted:My notes on the pricing/availability: Yeah, it's a pretty sound theory. Makes sense. Just keeping in mind what the role of the tanks actually is and what the stat increases mean to that role should help a lot. I'm guessing for bottom end aggregate firepower and hits to kill a formation per point are the relevant numbers and the top end the results in stuff like the tankulator are a major deal with a rough idea of how survivable they'll be under high end ATGM fire. quote:You can take whichever patch you prefer and work on it. RD probably updates quickly enough to make all your changes obsolete anyway. I'd take the latest just to get all bug fixes. Wouldn't you get the stealth silencers otherwise? That's true enough and I think you might've just solved my woes as far as getting testers goes. "Hey guys I accidentally overwrote my current patch files with my mod, how about you download it and we play that! It's got T-64As!" Dandywalken posted:Come. Come share my grief in having to start from scratch on modding again because the current game has bugged Amphibious campaign Landings. Come grief with me. I'll provide the tiny violin. I have less grief and more obscenity that aims to be a lyrical litany but falls short and is currently sitting somewhere around moderately eloquent Tourette's. So I guess I'll sing and we'll be one of those weird folk-punk hybrid acts? Bet we can sell records to hipsters. Hokay I'll bite, is there a good way to search for a specific unit in the mod tools? xthetenth fucked around with this message at 03:08 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 02:59
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Yep! For specific units, enter "TUniteAuSolDescriptor" in the search box on the left and then click it (should have 1495 instances or some poo poo). Then on the right, just set filter to ShortDatabaseName, and search for a keyword. There's another way to do it too if its being a bitch, but that SHOULD work.
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May 17, 2014 03:13
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xthetenth posted:Hokay I'll bite, is there a good way to search for a specific unit in the mod tools? No, but I'd guess they are roughly in alphabetical order with ground units first, planes next and botes last. There are several inconvenient ways to search for units, though!
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May 17, 2014 03:14
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Justin Tyme posted:What is with Germans and their overbearing self-consciousness about their own military prowess represented in a video game? As a German myself... I have no loving idea. Seriously, that entire thing reads like a deliberate troll to me and I am calling Poe's Law.  Also,  at this guy seriously claiming that Pgrens can't take on similar-priced REDFOR infantry because of them having battle rifles instead of ARs or SMGs. It's not like have the great equalizer*, right?*Murders any infantry without flame weapons equally.
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May 17, 2014 03:22
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Hmm. Now that I am not being a massive scrublord and am actually trying to mod the Red Dragon files instead of the ALB ones, it's throwing a shedload of errors on the most recent patch. The one before it did load though. And yeah I just wasn't grokking how the filter worked. xthetenth fucked around with this message at 03:59 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 03:43
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Hob_Gadling posted:Which side is pushing and is this before or after the death of the tank that tried to push? REDFOR is pushing into a BLUEFOR spawn, and the line of attack helicopters is slaughtering REDFOR tanks because my AA was all wrecked by 4 SEAD planes.
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May 17, 2014 04:45
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xthetenth posted:Hmm. Now that I am not being a massive scrublord and am actually trying to mod the Red Dragon files instead of the ALB ones, it's throwing a shedload of errors on the most recent patch. The one before it did load though. It's working fine for me. You didn't forget to close the game before trying this, right? It can't work if the game is open at the same time.
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May 17, 2014 04:53
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power crystals posted:It's working fine for me. You didn't forget to close the game before trying this, right? It can't work if the game is open at the same time. And never try and save mod changes while the game is open! You'll instantly corrupt the ndfbin, and ruin your work.
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May 17, 2014 04:55
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I just had a thought, don't know whether it has been suggested already but it would be really nice to have an alert when the enemy has captured 50% of the required points in conquest. Having the first alert sound at 70% is kind of like closing the gate after the horse has bolted I find.
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May 17, 2014 06:16
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HAHAHAHHASl;dkjljdlfajsf!~~one!!!!! Dear god eugen. So it turns out that the T-62 obr. 1972 in the game files is the T-62 obr. 1975 in game, and the T-62 obr.1975 in the files is the T-62M1. I'm crying blood here. Don't ask how the (blood) sausage is made I guess.
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May 17, 2014 06:22
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xthetenth posted:HAHAHAHHASl;dkjljdlfajsf!~~one!!!!! And your next assignment, if you so dare to find out why modding is a pain in the rear end... Locate the Moskit ship in the files. What is it named? Which two tanks in the T80 and T64 lines use the same weapon hit-table for no reason? The Chieftain Mk5 uses the same gun accuracy as which Chinese tank? Hint: It is amphibious What do the AIM-9 family and the Chinese IR AA missiles have in common aside from both being IR? What happens when you give a missile the Indirect Fire tag? What happens if you fail to give it the Reflex/Auto-Fire tag as well? What is the exact modifier for Infantry versus HE damage if they are garrisoned? Hint: It is a damage multiplier. The Kongo is unable to fire its anti-air missiles past a certain fixed distance that coincides with its current max anti-projectile distance. Why is this? Hint: It is a turret problem. Look at the Movement module for an airplane. Looking at it is enough to complete this task, as you can see how loving absurdly modeled planes are in ways that are totally unnecessary. What is the Marine scout Cobra's file name? What sensor entry do you have to change to make SEAD acquire targets from further out? Which single entry in a helicopter's movement module allows it to react to movement orders without lumbering around like a fat piece of poo poo? If you complete any of these tasks, you've been gifted with a degree of autism. Congratulations.
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May 17, 2014 06:31
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xthetenth posted:Hmm. Now that I am not being a massive scrublord and am actually trying to mod the Red Dragon files instead of the ALB ones, it's throwing a shedload of errors on the most recent patch. The one before it did load though. Don't try to open the files when the game is running. e;fb On the T62 you have to remember that this has all been carried forward from WEE, where those file names would be accurate. Xerxes17 fucked around with this message at 06:55 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 06:44
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Unless the armoury lies about accuracy as well (or there's other magic applied to it), there are no chinese tank that has the same accuracy stats as the mk5 as far as I can see edit: that are also amphibious edit2: nevermind for some reason I was looking at the wrong stat. The 63-1 I guess As for the T80-T64 thing, I know it's the BV1 (because that's why it doesn't have the 20AP it should) Shanakin fucked around with this message at 06:54 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 06:50
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If the armory lies about accuracy we may as well throw in the loving towel because there is not a single stat they aren't loving with.
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May 17, 2014 06:52
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I was mistaken on that front. Accuracy still good as far as I know.
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May 17, 2014 06:54
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Shanakin posted:Unless the armoury lies about accuracy as well (or there's other magic applied to it), there are no chinese tank that has the same accuracy stats as the mk5 as far as I can see The answer is ZTZ-63-1 For some loving reason, this and the Chieftain 5 have a shared hit-table reference. Changing one changes both.
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May 17, 2014 06:55
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I need to edit faster in the future. To paraphrase FLX from the other day "it would be easier just to give every unit unique weapons than all these shared references"
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May 17, 2014 06:56
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poo poo, I just wish Eugen edited properly. Period :P There's an amazing amount of shared-references etc that modders were told "Dont loving do this!" from Day 1 by guys like Hob and DM on the forums. Its funny to see that happen with Eugen's actual changes though. There's also a huge amount of holdover ALB content in the files. Even sector names, BG names etc. Its a bit disconcerting. Shanakin posted:To paraphrase FLX from the other day "it would be easier just to give every unit unique weapons than all these shared references" I'd loving do it personally if allowed. You've seen the files, so I'm sure you know it isnt exactly a titanic task, just a boring one. 4 hours or so, maybe. Six max. I just dont think the output files from mod tools are 100% compatible with those of Eugen's compilers, or they'd open shop one day to find a brick with a USB drive taped to it thrown through their office's window with a "You're welcome!" letter attached:P Dandywalken fucked around with this message at 07:03 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 06:58
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poo poo most infantry weapons still have EE versions that work extremely differently. Also grenades are still in there among other things. edit: I wonder if the grenades still work if you attached them to a unit...
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May 17, 2014 07:00
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I wondered why infantry units have a grenade throw animation.
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May 17, 2014 07:06
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