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TwoPair posted:It's probably because with Lois you have years upon years of comic writing to pull from for ideas on how she could/should be written. Dana, by contrast, is just a standard teen girl. And I guess none of the writers really knew how to do a boring ol' regular girl. I'm not sure that's the case. S:TAS's Lana is also friggin' awesome, and I'm fairly sure the smalltown-girl-come-good fashion designer who knows Clark's secret story was, if not invented for the show, pretty new at the time. And it's pretty much my favourite version of her. She knows she lost, but she has some fun at Clark's expense, flirting with him, showing him what he missed out on, but having his back when he's down.
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May 13, 2014 03:20
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Lurdiak posted:Exactly. It had a strong basis that it never really built on. The setting is completely amazing, future Gotham is a totally different kind of hellhole than classic Gotham, and it's got all kinds of Blade Runner architecture for Terry to fly around in, but the characters populating the city are flimsy. I do love that this all happens in the span of forty years. Oh yeah, that Art Deco building over there? We're gonna tear it down and replace it with a techno-ziggurat arcology. It'll have a YMCA in the back.
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May 13, 2014 14:22
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Batman the Animated Series kind of takes place in the early 50s. Sure they've got computers and stuff, but everybody acts like it's that era. TV is in black and white, everyone wears suits, people still use tommyguns, Bullock wears a fedora, and police even use blimps. Batman Beyond had to bring Batman to the present and then to the future. Of course they're worlds apart. One of the weird things about Batman Beyond is that it's a great concept for Bruce Wayne to retire and have somebody take over the moniker of Batman, but if you think about it, Batman's old enough to have retired and been replaced by someone who was born after he became Batman at least 3 times by now. He's been around since 1939.
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May 13, 2014 17:39
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SlothfulCobra posted:Batman the Animated Series kind of takes place in the early 50s. Sure they've got computers and stuff, but everybody acts like it's that era. TV is in black and white, everyone wears suits, people still use tommyguns, Bullock wears a fedora, and police even use blimps. Batman Beyond had to bring Batman to the present and then to the future. Of course they're worlds apart. Comics don't work like you think they do, DC resets the universe every so often. Current Batman wasn't around in 1939.
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May 13, 2014 17:44
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SlothfulCobra posted:Batman the Animated Series kind of takes place in the early 50s. Sure they've got computers and stuff, but everybody acts like it's that era. TV is in black and white, everyone wears suits, people still use tommyguns, Bullock wears a fedora, and police even use blimps. Batman Beyond had to bring Batman to the present and then to the future. Of course they're worlds apart. Fun fact, if you look closely at the Newspapers in the Tim Burton Batman film (you might need to watch it on a HD TV to see it) the film is set in the late 40's. There's a total precedent for keeping Batman confined to that sort of time period. Particularly one where the Government doesn't have the huge oversight to keep tabs on a wayward Millionaire.
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May 13, 2014 17:54
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SlothfulCobra posted:
Read Superman & Batman: Generations.
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May 13, 2014 18:09
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SlothfulCobra posted:Batman the Animated Series kind of takes place in the early 50s. Sure they've got computers and stuff, but everybody acts like it's that era. TV is in black and white, everyone wears suits, people still use tommyguns, Bullock wears a fedora, and police even use blimps. Batman Beyond had to bring Batman to the present and then to the future. Of course they're worlds apart. Do not forget they still have telegrams. Then he would visit Metropolis and it was the city of the future bright and full of hope. Gotham in this universe is still trapped in the past.
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May 13, 2014 20:28
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I can't find it for the life of me, but there are early S:TAS designs floating around that kept the retro style. I do really love the look of S: TAS's Metropolis though. Everything else in the DCAU looks very contemporary, but there is something slightly futuristic about their Metropolis. They really sell it as the City of Tomorrow.
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May 16, 2014 22:22
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It even makes the use of laser guns less annoying. Still a compromise, but disguised.
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May 16, 2014 22:37
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Timeless Appeal posted:I can't find it for the life of me, but there are early S:TAS designs floating around that kept the retro style.  http://jl.toonzone.net/superman/superman.htm
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May 16, 2014 22:44
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B:TAS's Gotham was deliberately anachronistic, much like the show's visual style. It's not really set in any specific period, since none of them would quite fit. One of the great losses of expanding the DCAU and greatest sins of the new Batman Adventures was ditching that aspect entirely. It was an unfortunate necessity, but the loss of it is felt pretty strongly if you watch the shows back to back.
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May 16, 2014 22:45
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When I was looking up that old-style S:TAS design sheet, I came across a story about why the style for that show switched. Apparently B:TAS was very strongly influenced by the Fleischer Superman cartoons, and when they tried to make a Superman show to match their Fleischer-esque Batman, then (no surprise) the Superman show felt like it was just a retread of the Fleischer stuff. So they decided to go for something new instead. I wonder if the Batman redesign was done to match the new Superman style.
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May 16, 2014 22:54
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Lurdiak posted:B:TAS's Gotham was deliberately anachronistic, much like the show's visual style. It's not really set in any specific period, since none of them would quite fit. One of the great losses of expanding the DCAU and greatest sins of the new Batman Adventures was ditching that aspect entirely. It was an unfortunate necessity, but the loss of it is felt pretty strongly if you watch the shows back to back. In addition to everything looking flatter (albeit easier to animate), the New Batman Adventures had the Joker shooting up electronic stores which sold DVDs and stuff. BTAS had VHS tapes, but those were the most modern things in Gotham. I know all the DCAU stuff is meant to be one big continuity, but I just disregard that entirely and treat BTAS, TNBA, Batman Beyond, and JL/JLU as their own self-contained things. I just can't reconcile them all together. As for the Batman redesign, I think Timm has confirmed that making the Superman and Batman universes visually consistent for crossovers was one reason why they did it.
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May 16, 2014 23:42
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MeatwadIsGod posted:In addition to everything looking flatter (albeit easier to animate), the New Batman Adventures had the Joker shooting up electronic stores which sold DVDs and stuff. BTAS had VHS tapes, but those were the most modern things in Gotham. I know all the DCAU stuff is meant to be one big continuity, but I just disregard that entirely and treat BTAS, TNBA, Batman Beyond, and JL/JLU as their own self-contained things. I just can't reconcile them all together. VHS was the most modern thing in our world in 1992 as well. DVDs weren't a retail thing until 1998 or so. Though I do agree that the weird anachronistic style bled out of the show when it came back after Superman.
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May 17, 2014 00:29
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It was from a wonderful alternate 1930's, where there are also evil AI'a and genetic engineering.
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May 17, 2014 00:38
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Metropolis was the same sort of city that you'd see as the World of Tomorrow in an exhibit in Gotham. Which might have weird philosophical implications, considering how Metropolis has capital punishment and Gotham doesn't.
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May 17, 2014 00:38
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XboxPants posted:When I was looking up that old-style S:TAS design sheet, I came across a story about why the style for that show switched. Apparently B:TAS was very strongly influenced by the Fleischer Superman cartoons, and when they tried to make a Superman show to match their Fleischer-esque Batman, then (no surprise) the Superman show felt like it was just a retread of the Fleischer stuff. So they decided to go for something new instead.
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May 17, 2014 01:02
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SlothfulCobra posted:Metropolis was the same sort of city that you'd see as the World of Tomorrow in an exhibit in Gotham. Which might have weird philosophical implications, considering how Metropolis has capital punishment and Gotham doesn't. It's definitely a city of tomorrow where Clark Kent can have that loving huge apartment he's got in the show on a reporter's salary. I mean holy poo poo.
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May 17, 2014 01:44
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SlothfulCobra posted:Metropolis was the same sort of city that you'd see as the World of Tomorrow in an exhibit in Gotham. Which might have weird philosophical implications, considering how Metropolis has capital punishment and Gotham doesn't. I read somewhere that Metropolis was supposed to be the very best of New York while Gotham was supposed to be the very worst.
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May 17, 2014 01:53
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Mister Kingdom posted:I read somewhere that Metropolis was supposed to be the very best of New York while Gotham was supposed to be the very worst. Metropolis is New York during the day, Gotham is New York at night.
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May 17, 2014 02:25
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IShallRiseAgain posted:Metropolis is New York during the day, Gotham is New York at night. I think the difference between Gotham and Metropolis is much more universal to all major cities. Metropolis is the ideal of a city. You know that feeling you're supposed to get when you see old photos of the Empire State Building's construction. It's a city built on that feeling of futurism and cooperation. Gotham is the corruption and decay that often comes with cities.
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May 17, 2014 02:35
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Timeless Appeal posted:I'm really amazed that people really buy into New York as being this really dangerous place when it's actually one of the safest cities in the country, especially in terms of size. People see in the paper that there's like 50 muggings in a few months in New York and are too stupid to factor in that New York has millions of inhabitants as opposed to the scant thousands that their hometown has.
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May 17, 2014 02:38
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Lurdiak posted:People see in the paper that there's like 50 muggings in a few months in New York and are too stupid to factor in that New York has millions of inhabitants as opposed to the scant thousands that their hometown has. Also "Hell's Kitchen" is pretty infamous - it's a really catchy name that sounds really bad, even if it's much better these days.
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May 17, 2014 02:49
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It's where they film the Daily Show!
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May 17, 2014 03:05
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Gotham's closest analog today is probably a place like Detroit or Camden, NJ - lots of people below the poverty line, tons of crime, high percentage of unsolved murders. The New York comparisons make the most sense from the '80s backwards. My favorite line about both cities is that Gotham represents all the worst aspects of city life at night - the crime, insecurity, and fear - and Metropolis represents the best aspects of city life during the day - the optimism, opportunity, and hope.
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May 17, 2014 03:50
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MeatwadIsGod posted:Gotham's closest analog today is probably a place like Detroit or Camden, NJ - lots of people below the poverty line, tons of crime, high percentage of unsolved murders. The New York comparisons make the most sense from the '80s backwards. Detroit is what Gotham would look like but didn't Chicago take the murder-capital crown a while back?
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May 17, 2014 04:10
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Ultimate Spiderman: never as good (bad) as the AvengerMon Anime, but it has its moments Also I can't wait for this to happen: 
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May 17, 2014 10:01
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Timeless Appeal posted:I'm really amazed that people really buy into New York as being this really dangerous place when it's actually one of the safest cities in the country, especially in terms of size. Lurdiak posted:People see in the paper that there's like 50 muggings in a few months in New York and are too stupid to factor in that New York has millions of inhabitants as opposed to the scant thousands that their hometown has. This is not a maxim that exists today; it's from the era when Times Square was a mess of porno theaters and strip clubs instead of the m&m store and a Guy Fieri restaurant
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May 17, 2014 11:11
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hup posted:This is not a maxim that exists today; it's from the era when Times Square was a mess of porno theaters and strip clubs instead of the m&m store and a Guy Fieri restaurant Yeah comics are obviously a product of their time and their comparisons aren't to today's standards but those of when they were created. Like with the Daredevil example, Daredevil is a product of an Irish American heritage in Hell's Kitchen in the 60's which is very specific not of modern day New York or even Clinton.
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May 17, 2014 11:50
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hup posted:This is not a maxim that exists today; it's from the era when Times Square was a mess of porno theaters and strip clubs instead of the m&m store and a Guy Fieri restaurant It is weird that as we progress, the Irish mobsters ruling Hell's Kitchen, what Kingpin is rooted in, will eventually become ancient history.
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May 17, 2014 13:41
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Timeless Appeal posted:Oh, I understand. But I've lived in Chicago and have had people worried about moving to New York because how dangerous it is which is insane. New York has yet to shake the reputation that it pretty much rightfully earned. And some parts of the city are still pretty lovely, even though they too are no where near as bad. It isn't really beneficial to Hollywood though for NYC to be portrayed as being as safe as it actually is. One of the biggest, and easily the most iconic city in the country needs to be more interesting if you are going to film and set a bunch movies and shows there. And the fact that it is so iconic and so many stories HAVE been set here is why they keep wanting to come back. So they maintain the status quo and keep the city "dangerous".
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May 17, 2014 16:44
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Timeless Appeal posted:I'm really amazed that people really buy into New York as being this really dangerous place when it's actually one of the safest cities in the country, especially in terms of size. It's a product of New York's past where that wasn't true at all. There are parts of the city that are still like that, maybe if they updated the whole line, but we all know how much comic nerds love change.
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May 19, 2014 05:22
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KomradeX posted:It's a product of New York's past where that wasn't true at all. There are parts of the city that are still like that, maybe if they updated the whole line, but we all know how much comic nerds love change. I'm absolutely fascinated by 1980's NYC. I've been binging on horrible 80's movies just for more glimpses of how disgusting Times Square was.
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May 19, 2014 07:00
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Rhyno posted:I'm absolutely fascinated by 1980's NYC. I've been binging on horrible 80's movies just for more glimpses of how disgusting Times Square was. Here is a good example of that time and the mood http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz
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May 19, 2014 07:08
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bobkatt013 posted:Here is a good example of that time and the mood Oh yeah, I did a paper on this in high school. I meant the visual appearance of the city.
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May 19, 2014 07:10
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There are some great photography collections out there if you can find them. I grew up in the tail end of the 80's so I only have vague memories of how different things looked before things started getting cleaned up. I remember a lot more abandoned buildings, vehicles, dead animals, and trash, that is for sure.
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May 19, 2014 08:35
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Egon's line in Ghostbusters about Tribeca being a "demilitarized zone" tells you all you need to know about the evolving character of NYC.
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May 19, 2014 17:18
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Rhyno posted:I'm absolutely fascinated by 1980's NYC. I've been binging on horrible 80's movies just for more glimpses of how disgusting Times Square was. Yeah I use to hear stories from my mom about how hosed up the city was. I would recommend reading Ladies and Gentlemen the Bronx is Burning, it's about NYC and the Yankees in the summer of '77 and it's completely alien place and I've lived in New York for my whole life
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May 19, 2014 17:58
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If you really want to watch the gradual transformation of NYC you should check out the original Law & Order. It started in the early 90s back when everything was lovely and ran until the late 00s. So if you're looking at the background and paying attention to the subtext of the stories you can follow along with the gentrification.
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May 19, 2014 18:05
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muscles like this? posted:If you really want to watch the gradual transformation of NYC you should check out the original Law & Order. It started in the early 90s back when everything was lovely and ran until the late 00s. So if you're looking at the background and paying attention to the subtext of the stories you can follow along with the gentrification. Basically the city started off looking like Jerry Orbach, and ended up looking like Benjamin Bratt.
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May 19, 2014 19:59
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