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E PLURIBUS ANUS posted:People constantly compare this game to chess, which is stupid because that game has perfect knowledge, there's nothing unknowable about the playing field of chess, only what the opposing player will do (which is planned for) You can also say that Kass is a terrible player by just pointing to the fact that she flipped unnecessarily. Flipping on your alliance is jury poison 100% of the time, and should be a ploy saved for when you literally have no other choice. Kass flipped because she was ticked off that someone was getting more attention than her, and she was willing to torpedo her game to get more camera time/attention. I don't need anything in addition to that to write her off as an idiot.
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May 17, 2014 07:38
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| # ? May 28, 2024 03:27 |
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Loving season 12 is my secret shame. Every true Survivor Dan needs to watch it. Shane and his BlackBerry 
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May 17, 2014 08:07
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Propaganda Machine posted:Loving season 12 is my secret shame. Every true Survivor Dan needs to watch it. Liking s12 is no shame, hell I like EVERY season (yes even whatever one you're thinking I can't possibly like).
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May 17, 2014 08:43
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Kind of funny that the 'brain' Spencer is still around due to winning immunity challenges, while the 'brawn' Tony is still in the game due to his player manipulations, backstabbing and ability to figure out where idols are.Poque posted:4.5 votes to each. they literally cut trish in half and everybody gets some of her bones Great clip. On the last Know-It-Alls, Rob points out that it's not enough to get to the final, you have to do it in a way that doesn't piss off everyone. Said something like, "39 days earlier, nobody knew you. If the jury is bitter, you caused them feel that way". Rick posted:Kass is bad at Survivor but good at TV.
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May 17, 2014 12:42
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mancalamania posted:People were saying the flip at the merge meant she was crazy because she would be the first person out of her alliance-- yet three people from her alliance are gone now, and she's still here. No, people were saying she had a guaranteed final 3, and burned most of her potential votes. Which looks to be the case. Binary Logic posted:She's almost a lock to get $100,000 for second place. That ain't too bad. This is true. If you know you can't win, playing the goat is actually a decent strategy. I was thinking about past final 2 FTCs and the final immunity challenge. If you assume the final 3 consists of two potential winners and one goat, what does winning final immunity do? Goat wins: take PW1 or PW2 to FTC and loses PW1 wins: take Goat to FTC and wins PW2 wins: take Goat to FTC and wins So if the final 3 usually consists of two PWs and a Goat, you'd think the winner of final immunity would win 2/3rds of the time. Actually even higher since a Goat is usually a player who hasn't done well in challenges. The actual results of the final immunity winner (of a final 2) winning the game are closer to 50/50. The conclusions could be that Goats are not all that common in the final 3, or that PWs make bad decisions on who to bring to the end. 
paperchaseguy fucked around with this message at 13:16 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 13:14
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Binary Logic posted:Kind of funny that the 'brain' Spencer is still around due to winning immunity challenges, while the 'brawn' Tony is still in the game due to his player manipulations, backstabbing and ability to figure out where idols are. Let's face it Spencer and Tasha were the two most overall capable physical players in this entire season, and they were both Brains.
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May 17, 2014 13:17
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Terrible at working with a team, though
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May 17, 2014 13:49
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How do you get so much right and so much wrong in one post? Your comments on Marty, Taj, Eliza, Malcolm and specifically DAVE loving BALL were spot on. And then you nix RC, OK Abi Maria and cast Jeff Kent and Reynolds as villains? Really? That being said, I hate the whole thing about focusing on recent seasons during a HvV or a BvW. And I'm a grandmaster at chess.
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May 17, 2014 17:03
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paperchaseguy posted:No, people were saying she had a guaranteed final 3, and burned most of her potential votes. Which looks to be the case. Is the general consensus of the thread that, had Kass not flipped, she Spencer and Tasha would have just cruised into the F3 with an obvious minority power alliance with no opposition?
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May 17, 2014 17:09
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Aerox posted:Is the general consensus of the thread that, had Kass not flipped, she Spencer and Tasha would have just cruised into the F3 with an obvious minority power alliance with no opposition? In theory they would have the majority alliance, could have picked off the remaining 5 Brawn/Beauties, voted out the other players in their alliance, and gone to F3. Of course that was before #KaosKass. In reality of course things never go as smoothly as planned.
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May 17, 2014 17:13
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The brain tribe this season was a group of people that did not understand that you put one foot in front of another. They played an individual game from the first second, when David send Garrette away because "he would have been a threat at the end", which is why they imploded. I have to say I really hate Spencer's edit. He is a challenge monster and thats it. He did not make one successfull move on his own and did not influence Tony when he voted out Jefra, but we have to endure confessional after confessional of Spencer being happy about his situation. This dude knows how to give the producers the stuff they need to engineer great TV, but all this "they have conflict, this is great for me" is utter bullshit. As soon as he does not win Immunity he is out. As for the goat strategy: I believe it only works if you have a strong leader, that is in near total control (Tony, Boston Rob as the two most recent examples) otherwise your goatyness will lead to you being voted out sooner rather than later.
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May 17, 2014 17:46
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GaussianCopula posted:The brain tribe this season was a group of people that did not understand that you put one foot in front of another. They played an individual game from the first second, when David send Garrette away because "he would have been a threat at the end", which is why they imploded. Spencer has always been on the bottom and has bullshit his way through 4 tribals where he probably should have gone home. The Jefra vote was definitely swayed by Spencer getting in Tony's head though and the reason Spencer is remarkable is that he's stayed very calm and collected despite always facing an uphill battle. The one time he lost his cool was when he thought he was on top in a strong alliance and #KhaosKass happened.
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May 17, 2014 17:52
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Spencer would get clowned in a season with better players, hence why he's a terrible choice to return for an all-stars season, but considering he's final four against overwhelming odds, the anti-Spencer hyperbole is strange. He's definitely been staggeringly lucky to have his main opponent be the Master Spy Shack Builder. quote:How do you get so much right and so much wrong in one post? what's your reason for not wanting Abi-Maria back? That you hate her so much? Because that's EXACTLY why she must return. Can you think of a better choice for female villain? And I would like to clarify I haven't seen many of the older seasons, so my casting was entirely based on the seasons I've seen. Minus Redemption Island, where I can't think of anyone that would be a good returnee other than Andrea, who has already returned. quote:Is the general consensus of the thread that, had Kass not flipped, she Spencer and Tasha would have just cruised into the F3 with an obvious minority power alliance with no opposition? Under that logic, ChaosKass was bad for Tasha, but ultimately good for Spencer. I mean, Spencer barely convinced Kass and Tasha to keep him over the Rice Burner, so it's not inconceivable they'd make a move against him as soon as convenient.
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May 17, 2014 18:15
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Spatula City posted:Might be the general consensus, but would be wrong. Even if Kass had decided not to ice Sarah, she would've known she was on the bottom, and flipped at the next opportunity. In that hypothetical, she wouldn't have wrecked her relationship with Tasha, so after Tony's gone (and that would probably have been what happened at the next tribal council after Jefra got taken out), Kass convinces Tasha that Spencer's too dangerous to go much farther, so they team up with Trish, Woo, and LJ to get rid of him. Next week, LJ goes, then Jeremiah, then Trish, Woo, and Kass and Tasha go final 2, barring one of the others winning immunity (but Tasha probably would've crushed any immunity challenge). Survivor fan fiction 
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May 17, 2014 18:35
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Jose Valasquez posted:Survivor fan fiction I totally get, understand, and believe that Kass has a horrible social game, but I am really, really confused by how this thread is calling that flip the worst move in Survivor history. Kass' glaring personality and social flaws aside, there is no reason to believe she gave up some sort of golden ticket to a mythical Brains Final 3. There is NO WAY the players in the game, as dumb as they are, wouldn't have immediately identified the Brains Trio as a massive minority alliance threat and turned on them as soon as they were able, assuming Spencer and/or Tash didn't flip either, which is also a huge stretch. See: Rotu 4, Four Horsemen, Onion Alliance, etc. The flip REALLY wasn't that awful of a move. It was probably earlier than it needed to be, and the way she's acted since she flipped is mindboggling, but it was a pre-emptive move to solidify SOME position in a dominant numbers alliance where the target on your back actually becomes smaller, because you're no longer part of a scary power-trio. In any case, this season has been absolutely magical. Edit: Since I'm sitting here thinking about Survivor all morning anyway, I guess I'll add that this seems kind of like the next natural evolution of the game, in some sense. There's an old post I think from Sucks a while back that talks about Survivor 1.0, 2.0, etc., and describes how the game has slowly changed over time. (1.0 = Dominant Alliance, Pagong other tribe) (2.0 = Dominant Alliance, but bottom rung joins with minority alliance at critical point and flips the game.) The point we're at now, considering the last couple seasons (not counting returnees vs. noob seasons), alliances are short-lived and everyone in the game regularly crosses voting lines to take out any sort of obvious threat. Unless you are a social mastermind and can control everyone on the island with an iron fist (and very few people can, like Kim and Rob. Tony came close but he's too easily manipulated by paranoia.), it actually seems like the best place to be in modern Survivor is hovering outside of a majority alliance and willing to flip on whoever you identify as a group threat. Probably why Sandra was able to win twice. Aerox fucked around with this message at 19:08 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 18:58
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Bjay9 posted:Spencer has always been on the bottom and has bullshit his way through 4 tribals where he probably should have gone home. The Jefra vote was definitely swayed by Spencer getting in Tony's head though and the reason Spencer is remarkable is that he's stayed very calm and collected despite always facing an uphill battle. The one time he lost his cool was when he thought he was on top in a strong alliance and #KhaosKass hap5pened. All votes follow Tony's strategy and are not majorly influenced by Spencer. Tony's rules are a) My alliance can never have more than 2 votes majority to avoid my alliance fracturing b) The tribe can not have more woman than man, otherwise we will end up in a Micronesia/One World scenario. Those two rules all votes Tony controlled up to final5. Sarah - Needed to gain majority, easiest target because of Idols, Kass hates her. Morgan - comfort vote, was hated by everyone in his alliance. Spencer would have been a better vote but the danger was that free-agent Kaoskass would not have approved of that vote. LJ - Rule A Jeremiah - Spencer had the HII, Tasha won the immunity challenge Jefra - Rule A and B, but mostly B as Tony would have preferred to vote out Tasha at this point After this the rules no longer applied as Tasha was a big threat and he could not lose his goat. Spencers best play was probably to get Tasha to vote J'Tia out and not him but after that? He is a challenge monster that seems to atleast understand the game but he did not influence it to a significant degree outside of them.
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May 17, 2014 19:05
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Aerox posted:I totally get, understand, and believe that Kass has a horrible social game, but I am really, really confused by how this thread is calling that flip the worst move in Survivor history. Kass worst move was to keep J'Tia, the person that threw their rice in the fire. Everything else is fine in comparission.
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May 17, 2014 19:07
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Yeah, it's not the flip that's bad, it's all the little things since. It's weird that Tony's being compared to Russell when Kass is in some ways playing a more Russell-like game. A game that will get her to the end while EVERYONE HATES HER, with a strategy involving causing chaos, and getting people mad at her. People should be pointing to what Kass did this last episode as a legendarily bad move, not her big flip.
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May 17, 2014 19:07
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Spatula City posted:Yeah, it's not the flip that's bad, it's all the little things since. It's weird that Tony's being compared to Russell when Kass is in some ways playing a more Russell-like game. A game that will get her to the end while EVERYONE HATES HER, with a strategy involving causing chaos, and getting people mad at her. I haven't been watching Ponderosa, so maybe someone can answer this for me: Have they shown any of the jurors talking about Kass or Tony? I'm curious to see how the people Kass "saved" with her flip, minus Trish, see her, and also how Tony's old alliancemates see him, given that he has stabbed every single person in his original alliance in the face.
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May 17, 2014 19:11
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As much as I want Spencer to win because he has more or less played behind the eight ball this game, if they buy Tony's line about the Idol working one more tribal, I just can't see him making it if anyone but him wins immunity. I'm sort of surprised that Jeff didn't say anything about it being the last time to a idols; I am almost positive that he has said that in other seasons where it was the last tribal they could be used.
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May 17, 2014 20:25
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Aerox posted:Is the general consensus of the thread that, had Kass not flipped, she Spencer and Tasha would have just cruised into the F3 with an obvious minority power alliance with no opposition? What, were Jeremiah, Morgan, and the entirely too credulous Sarah going to stop the Brains? eta: oops wrong link 
paperchaseguy fucked around with this message at 02:12 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 20:40
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Aerox posted:I was kind of surprised a few pages back to see everyone thinking that the jury would just be so in love with Tony and think his animal noises were wacky and hilarious while frowning at Kass for being so mean and rude to Trish. Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 01:29 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 23:52
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Rick posted:Kass is bad at Survivor but good at TV.
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May 17, 2014 23:55
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Even if Kass did make it to the Final 3 with Tasha and Spencer (this never would have happened without significant opposition, by the way), does anyone really think she would win against either of those two? Even her "easy final 3" that she "threw away" was essentially a dead end for winning the game. Why not mix things up and see if a different path works out?
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May 18, 2014 00:52
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mancalamania posted:Even if Kass did make it to the Final 3 with Tasha and Spencer (this never would have happened without significant opposition, by the way), does anyone really think she would win against either of those two? Even her "easy final 3" that she "threw away" was essentially a dead end for winning the game. Why not mix things up and see if a different path works out? Why wouldn't she win against them? People keep saying that she would've lost anyways if she stayed with her alliance, but she seemed pretty well liked before the flip. If she stayed with her alliance, she could engineer blindsides and try to win based on being strategic, or possibly cut Spencer/Tasha at a later point and use Jefra or someone as a goat. Keep in mind that she is the exact type of person who can make it to the finals by sticking with her alliance: she's not a physical threat, nor was she perceived as the clear alliance leader at the time, nor was she super personable like Tasha or Jeremiah or whoever, so she was at little risk of getting blindsided by her alliance or being targeted by idol plays. But either the goat strategy or late blindside moves still mean that she could win at a final tribal, IMO. rafington fucked around with this message at 01:48 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 18, 2014 01:43
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mancalamania posted:Even if Kass did make it to the Final 3 with Tasha and Spencer (this never would have happened without significant opposition, by the way), does anyone really think she would win against either of those two? Even her "easy final 3" that she "threw away" was essentially a dead end for winning the game. Why not mix things up and see if a different path works out? OK, maybe you're saying Tasha and Spencer are so likable that even if they're just meeting people for the first time post-merge, Kass can never keep up. Well, then she could flip at final five, right? Without having betrayed the whole alliance. Fast Luck fucked around with this message at 01:52 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 18, 2014 01:47
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Alternately, Kass could never have won no matter what because she's got the empathy of a fruit bat.
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May 18, 2014 04:06
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Spatula City posted:Spencer would get clowned in a season with better players, hence why he's a terrible choice to return for an all-stars season Even so, having played a season, he is better for it and will likely do just as well as anyone else with returning players.
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May 18, 2014 04:42
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guys, RobHasaWebsite's doing a fan favorite of the season poll. Do the right thing. Vote Kass.
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May 18, 2014 04:56
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The credit I will give Kass, is that if she has a plan, she executes it. But most of the time these plans are awful.
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May 18, 2014 05:05
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Spatula City posted:guys, RobHasaWebsite's doing a fan favorite of the season poll. Do the right thing. Vote Kass.
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May 18, 2014 05:17
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Fast Luck posted:Vote Tony for being the run-away most aggressive and entertaining player possibly ever. Don't let Spencer's underdog story blind you to how many million times more fun Tony has given us than Spencer. It's great that we even have to figure out who the person most worthy of a vote would be. Pretty much everybody from both the original Brain and Brawn tribes ended up being a great character for whatever reason. It looks like the Beauties had a bit of dead weight - LJ, Jefra, and Jeremiah were ultimately pretty boring. I have to feel we could have gotten a lot more out of Brice or Alexis if they had stuck around longer. Alexis in particular - I remember thinking her early game was pretty decent and then her situation post tribe-mixup put her in a bad spot.
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May 18, 2014 05:22
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I, for one, am voting J'Tia. I'm a few episodes into HvV and it is already very entertaining. I have to admit, I think some of the people (mostly a few villains) were placed on the wrong tribes. I never considered Coach a villain, just a weirdo. I don't really think Sandra and Danielle (I actually forgot what season she was on and kind of shocked when I realized she came in second on her season) were villains either. Shane and Rocky would've been better than those two, but in a way, I'm not sure I could handle Shane or Rocky all over again.
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May 18, 2014 06:32
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Aerox posted:I haven't been watching Ponderosa, so maybe someone can answer this for me: Have they shown any of the jurors talking about Kass or Tony? I'm curious to see how the people Kass "saved" with her flip, minus Trish, see her, and also how Tony's old alliancemates see him, given that he has stabbed every single person in his original alliance in the face. Sarah and Morgan just loathe Kass, and I don't think anyone likes her. My impression of their feelings towards Tony is that he is the one controlling the game and that while he's playing against them, he's not the terrible human being that Kass is.
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May 18, 2014 10:13
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Piell posted:Sarah and Morgan just loathe Kass, and I don't think anyone likes her. My impression of their feelings towards Tony is that he is the one controlling the game and that while he's playing against them, he's not the terrible human being that Kass is. Them being the first two to Ponderosa will help steer the group think in their favor as well. Next person in only gets Kass hate talked around him. Next guy gets more of the same. So on and so forth.
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May 18, 2014 10:15
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Fast Luck posted:Vote Tony for being the run-away most aggressive and entertaining player possibly ever. Don't let Spencer's underdog story blind you to how many million times more fun Tony has given us than Spencer. Tony has really made this season, it would probably be fairly dull without him. Spencer is a good player, but he's like Cochran without the interesting personality quirks.
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May 18, 2014 14:00
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I kind of hope Tony wins, only because he's the only winner fans would be remotely satisfied with. Anyone else wins, the Survivor fan community's going to be SO loving BITTER. as they tend to be anyway, lol. Hah, you know what, I've got an idea for Survivor. Probably one that will never happen, but still a good idea. a Fans Only season. I'm sure the producers would be worried BUT WHAT ABOUT OUR EYE CANDY, but that's demonstrably bullshit, as LJ, Jefra, and Alexis, IIRC, stated they were fans. I'm kind of tempted to do a whole jury scenario effortpost on Monday or Tuesday. Might be fun trying to guess what direction the voters would lean in. Although clearly the most interesting scenario, Tony v. Spencer, is the most unlikely. People, especially on Survivorsucks, have been weirdly high on Woo, but I don't really see why. He's been more prominent, in my opinion, only because he's in the final four. His edit would have been more positive were he the winner.
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May 18, 2014 20:57
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Fast Luck posted:Vote Tony for being the run-away most aggressive and entertaining player possibly ever. Don't let Spencer's underdog story blind you to how many million times more fun Tony has given us than Spencer. Kass actually is my favorite this season, she's good tv. Tony is a poor man's King Russell of Samoa/Bahhhston Rob and it's obvious that he was cast for it. He's a great player and no mistake, but he's still on the shoulders of giants as far as abrasive domineering players go. He will likely win, and totally deserves it, but he's no King Russell.
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May 18, 2014 21:12
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A big part of what made Russell so fun to watch was how easy to hate Galu were. The fans were rooting for terrible things to happen to Luara and company, Russell made that happen. Tony has been a frontrunner the whole way. Instead of pulling off an 8-4 comeback, Tony has been acting crazy from a position of relative safety. When Tony makes a big move, the faces shuffle a little but the game doesn't really change much. It's fun to watch, but he's nowhere near as rootable as Russell in Samoa. Tony needed better "bad guys" to go up against. (Big Brother 10 is the textbook example of this formula working)
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May 18, 2014 21:44
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| # ? May 28, 2024 03:27 |
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Until Tony burns his tribe's socks, he doesn't compare to Hantz 
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May 18, 2014 21:47
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