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Dominic White posted:I'd love to see some kind of Deterministic Doom mod, though, which cuts or highly reduces the random elements. It's surprising the game is so popular with speedrunners as-is, considering the number of completely random elements involved. Many speedrunners prefer a degree of RNG that forces them to improvise in small ways.
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May 17, 2014 01:37
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| # ? May 31, 2024 03:36 |
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Kazvall posted:As said before, the hexen RPG mod adds tons of weapons to the core classes of the game in the form of skills and adds two new classes. It has a stat system as well as the skill tree/level system and adds a unique ability to mix different potions together through alchemy. Its also compatible with heretic and doom. Yo thanks for recommending this, it's really really awesome.
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May 17, 2014 05:03
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Internet Friend posted:Many speedrunners prefer a degree of RNG that forces them to improvise in small ways. Yeah, it means the game doesn't devolve into shot counting. You get risk-reward elements where a point-blank SSG blast has about a 50/50 chance of stunning an archie if all pellets hit, and you have time to get about two blasts off before it fries you- so that's about a 25% of you being dead if you decide to rush it with a SSG and take it out quick. Have fun.
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May 17, 2014 05:11
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Fag Boy Jim posted:Yeah, it means the game doesn't devolve into shot counting. You get risk-reward elements where a point-blank SSG blast has about a 50/50 chance of stunning an archie if all pellets hit, and you have time to get about two blasts off before it fries you- so that's about a 25% of you being dead if you decide to rush it with a SSG and take it out quick. Have fun. Except the same movements give the same results every time in Doom... it's all perfectly predictable based on your movements.
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May 17, 2014 05:16
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Cat Mattress posted:That's the real problem. Everyone focuses on the four weapons, but really, modern Doom gameplay also has only four weapons: I wouldn't count the chaingun out. It's excellent for sniping lower level enemies across great distances if you know how to use it properly (in 2-shot bursts).
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May 17, 2014 05:28
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I just end up using the normal shotgun most of the time. Super shotgun goes through ammo wayyyy too quickly. Great for taking down Barons of Hell though.
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May 17, 2014 06:03
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Install Windows posted:Except the same movements give the same results every time in Doom... it's all perfectly predictable based on your movements. Yeah, but good loving luck trying to input the exact same movements every time, or, for that matter, more than once. There are a shitload of things that can trigger an RNG call, so there's absolutely no way to game it outside of TASes.
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May 17, 2014 06:17
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Convex posted:The latest episode of retro gaming podcast Back in my Play has David Kushner on to talk about writing Masters of Doom. Never listened to it before but sounds like this one could be pretty interesting. "So, how many paragraphs about barbecuing hot dogs next to a lake were cut from the final draft?"
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May 17, 2014 06:36
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Zero Star posted:Also, I was browsing the Doom Wiki and stumbled across Unholy Realms from last year. Pretty good so far, the levels are fairly small - even the 'big fight' maps have around 200 monsters at most. SavageMessiah posted:Yeah, I really enjoyed that one and recommended it many pages back. I'll also second the recommendation of Coffee Break that was made a little while ago. I've come on here to recommend Unholy Realms before, as well. It's seriously just a satisfying MegaWAD: Maps that aren't too big/small, enemy counts that feel just "right", a reasonable attention to aesthetics, and a robust challenge (at least on UV).
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May 17, 2014 07:41
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mod sassinator posted:I just end up using the normal shotgun most of the time. Super shotgun goes through ammo wayyyy too quickly. Great for taking down Barons of Hell though. Yeah but SSG is more ammo-efficient. An SSG blast uses two shells but triples damage, so it's almost always a better choice given that in most wads you're more than likely going to be firing either into an enemy with high hp or a crowd.
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May 17, 2014 10:36
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Install Windows posted:Except the same movements give the same results every time in Doom... it's all perfectly predictable based on your movements.
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May 17, 2014 15:13
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Why is it still a popular thing that WAD authors use music from random games and not have a dude make something new?
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May 17, 2014 15:44
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Commander Keenan posted:Why is it still a popular thing that WAD authors use music from random games and not have a dude make something new? There's a lot more ripped music from random games than there are musicians in the Doom community?
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May 17, 2014 16:12
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Korendian Leader posted:Ah yes, everything is predictable given frame perfect movement from the very start of the map. This is something that is going to happen outside of a TAS. This is in fact things people do for the .LMP competitions. Remember that the record mode cuts your freedom of movement down by half which makes it easier.
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May 17, 2014 16:12
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Commander Keenan posted:Why is it still a popular thing that WAD authors use music from random games and not have a dude make something new? It can be kind of entertaining. Playing WG Realms 2 is basically trainspotting, finding all the different assets the guy ripped from various games. It stretches the gamut of Age of Empires to Perfect Dark.
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May 17, 2014 16:34
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Cat Mattress posted:That's the real problem. Everyone focuses on the four weapons, but really, modern Doom gameplay also has only four weapons: Nah definitely not. Chaingun is great for certain enemy types and sometimes you've just got a ton of bullets piling up and not a lot of other things. The Plasma is pretty useful in a few situations, and it's more ammo efficient than the BFG on any single target other than the bosses, which can matter on some low-ammo maps. Regular shotgun is way, way better than the SSG for any long distance shooting. There are tons of maps that love to put imps/humans on ledges far away so this comes up a lot. Also as mentioned, it's more ammo efficient against single target humans/imps and can often even kill multiple humans in a single shot. The pistol is the only weapon that gets directly replaced, because the Chaingun is just straight up better than it with no downsides. Other than the fact that the chaingun has to fire in 2 shot bursts. I kind of wish in Doom 2 they would have moved the Chaingun to the 2 hotkey to replace the Pistol, and moved the SSG to the 4th slot. Gwyrgyn Blood fucked around with this message at 17:10 on May 17, 2014 |
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May 17, 2014 17:06
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Also the plasma rifle becomes pretty useful when you start pistol-starting maps and don't always have a BFG to fall back on.
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May 17, 2014 17:10
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Install Windows posted:This is in fact things people do for the .LMP competitions. Remember that the record mode cuts your freedom of movement down by half which makes it easier.
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May 17, 2014 17:32
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I can really only imagine it being even close to practical for something like Map01.
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May 17, 2014 17:33
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Commander Keenan posted:Why is it still a popular thing that WAD authors use music from random games and not have a dude make something new? It's the same reason a lot of wad authors use edited sprites and not have a dude make something new, or the same reason a lot of gameplay mods don't come with brand new maps. Being able to make a good X doesn't mean you can make a good Y, too. Or that you can find someone who can make a good Y.
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May 17, 2014 18:58
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TerminusEst13 posted:Or that you can find someone who can make a good Y. Or that you can finding someone who can make a good Y and will do it for free.
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May 17, 2014 19:06
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Install Windows posted:Except the same movements give the same results every time in Doom... it's all perfectly predictable based on your movements.
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May 17, 2014 20:43
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I'm almost positive monster AI, especially when they're active, but can't see the player (something that happens all the time in a speedrun), triggers p_random calls, as do certain types of flickering lights. It is utterly impractical to try to predict except maybe in a TAS.
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May 17, 2014 20:47
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Wadjamaloo posted:Unless its a TAS, there is still RNG. No human is going to have precise enough movements to get fully deterministic damage rolls. There are some games where the RNG can be manipulated like this, but for the purposes of doom its just plain random as far as human player is concerned. Yeah, and sometimes very random, as pointed out above. There are common enemies that are practically a coin-toss as to whether they'll just soak up bullets without a word, or nuke you for two thirds of your health. That's the kind of RNG that speedrunners despise, and it speaks well of how great the rest of Doom is that this isn't too huge an obstacle to speedrunning. So, yeah, a mod that makes the game more predictable (if not fully deterministic) might be interesting. At a core level it shouldn't change much, as it would just be using the base average weapon damage levels. If there's no chance of weapons randomly doing extra-high damage, the pain system would have to be altered, of course. It'd be an interesting challenge to find something that feels like it happens as often as the old system without being random.
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May 17, 2014 20:59
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The nature of the SSG, the most commonly-used gun in the game, helps significantly- since it triggers a separate P_Random call for each pellet, for a total of 20 P-Random calls, the damage range is much more concentrated toward the middle than other guns. Here's the SSG histogram:  And, to contrast, the histogram for the damage done by a single plasma rifle projectile.  Even here, though, it doesn't really matter since you're not firing one plasma shot ever, you're firing off a ton, which makes the variation in damage much less noticeable (even rockets are usually fired in bursts against tough enemies). That's why it's only really noticeable with the berserk fist- it's basically the one high damage "single-shot" weapon in the game (the BFG's tracers, plus the sheer amount of damage it does, also makes the effect of the pRNG less noticeable).
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May 17, 2014 21:53
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tuluk posted:heretic 2 was a 3rd person shooter set in a fantasy world with magical plague. Heretic 2 was really fun and mp was a blast, sadly the only way to get it is to find an old retail copy. If it showed in steam would be an instant purchase, but a GOG release with some bugfixing would be awesome.
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May 17, 2014 22:41
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haveblue posted:Or that you can finding someone who can make a good Y and will do it for free. It's best to avoid those mods if you can't overlook the content, it's just something that bugs some people and not others. There's still plenty of mods with original content (Like of course Back to Saturn's original textures and music) to play with as well.
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May 17, 2014 22:57
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Korendian Leader posted:What competitions? Some specific examples would be good too. http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?dir=lmps/COMPET-N/ Wadjamaloo posted:Unless its a TAS, there is still RNG. No human is going to have precise enough movements to get fully deterministic damage rolls. There are some games where the RNG can be manipulated like this, but for the purposes of doom its just plain random as far as human player is concerned. Ok are you not understanding that the keyboard exists, and that there's no vertical aiming and restricted horizontal mouse resolution in demo mode? Perhaps you people are too used to blatantly engine breaking ports like Zdoom.
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May 18, 2014 01:06
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Segmentation Fault posted:Jazz Jackrabbit 2: The Secret Files (a Europe only expansion) sold so poorly that it was basically responsible for Gathering of Developers' demise. I loved JJ1 as a kid and didn't know Jazz Jackrabbit 2 existed until just recently. Still haven't managed to find a copy. Advertising is important, mkay?
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May 18, 2014 01:37
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Anyone else play Wolf3D on iOS? It's a steal at 99¢ and comes with Spear of Destiny 1 built in. Sadly, the controls on a touchscreen makes a couple of the levels almost impossible. You have to strafe by tilting the device and it just isn't responsive enough to avoid some boss attacks. I still can't beat the Angel of Death.
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May 18, 2014 04:00
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Wolf3D playable in browser: http://3d.wolfenstein.com/
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May 18, 2014 06:50
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Former Human posted:Anyone else play Wolf3D on iOS? It's a steal at 99¢ and comes with Spear of Destiny 1 built in. Sadly, the controls on a touchscreen makes a couple of the levels almost impossible. You have to strafe by tilting the device and it just isn't responsive enough to avoid some boss attacks. I still can't beat the Angel of Death.
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May 18, 2014 06:56
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i can not recall Compet-N players exploiting the RNG except perhaps in absolute edge cases (like TASing MAP01), because, like i said, so much poo poo triggers p_random calls, including poo poo that has nothing to do with the player, that it would be utterly impractical. not even that, but the possible benefit would be utterly marginal due to the nature of weapon damage output.
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May 18, 2014 06:59
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like, when you shoot an SSG at a monster, it calls P_Random twice for every pellet that hits- once for damage, and once for pain chance. so that's 40 steps in the array for every perfect SSG hit, and that's not accounting for every time you don't hit correctly, and the RNG is constantly getting called anyway because the level has a "random flash" sector, and for monster AI behavior, and probably a ton of other poo poo. Compet-N speedrunners are good but nobody is loving gaming the RNG to that extent for utterly marginal benefits
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May 18, 2014 07:02
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Keiya posted:I loved JJ1 as a kid and didn't know Jazz Jackrabbit 2 existed until just recently. Still haven't managed to find a copy. You're most likely not going to get Jazz 2 legally until Epic decides to throw the Jazz series up on GoG, which it seriously needs to do.
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May 18, 2014 08:20
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You used to be able to order it or any other early Epic game on a cd from Tim Sweeney's dad, but the site vanished last year.
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May 18, 2014 09:56
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The Kins posted:There's an alternate control scheme that uses tilting to turn, and has a D-Pad for moving and strafing. That's even worse! Even with sensitivity and speed set to 100 it's just too slow.
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May 18, 2014 10:20
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Install Windows posted:http://www.doomworld.com/idgames/index.php?dir=lmps/COMPET-N/
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May 18, 2014 12:01
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Korendian Leader posted:Okay, it's quite clear you have no idea what you're talking about. Fishmeched again
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May 18, 2014 12:41
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| # ? May 31, 2024 03:36 |
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Summer Games Done Quick 2014 is five weeks out, but I figured I'd look to see what they had planned for early FPSes. It's not a single solid block like it was in January, but they'll do most of the same games. Of note: Goldeneye and Doom 64 on Thursday, June 26; Heretic, Ultimate Doom, and Quake on Friday, June 27; Half-Life and Half-Life 2 on Saturday, June 28.
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May 18, 2014 14:14
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