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lazy old sun
Feb 12, 2007

Sharizard posted:


I'm a web developer / programmer with a strong desire to move on to another industry. Started at age 19, feeling burnt out at 25. One of the main reasons I'm quitting the cushy world of web development is because it feels like the work I produce isn't really meaningful in the grand scheme of things. I prefer to be able to learn how to do things with my own two hands and create tangible items for myself and others.


As a person who went the other direction (spent years working as a mechanic, went back to school and now have an office job), working with your hands sucks. Every day that I'm not getting filthy and breaking my body at work is a blessing.

I'd recommend picking up something hands on as a hobby if it's an urge you are having. Just be warned, it started as a hobby for me as well, and it's much less fun when it's your job.

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megazord
Jul 16, 2001

RisqueBarber posted:

Do what's best for you. Don't worry about Company A, and definitely don't tell them about Company B. Take the job at Company A if offered and if two weeks from now you get an offer from B just be polite and tell A something better came up. It's not personal, its business.

But wouldn't that show up on your background check/employment record? Wouldn't they be like 'wtf, there's one more employer after the most recent and he's been there 2 weeks?'

BCR
Jan 23, 2011

lazy old sun posted:

As a person who went the other direction (spent years working as a mechanic, went back to school and now have an office job), working with your hands sucks. Every day that I'm not getting filthy and breaking my body at work is a blessing.

I'd recommend picking up something hands on as a hobby if it's an urge you are having. Just be warned, it started as a hobby for me as well, and it's much less fun when it's your job.

If you're under 30 there's always the longing among some to go to sea, drive a truck, run away to the French foreign legion, etc just to experience something different than the office. It'll make going back to the office later easier having done something. With the economy in the new normal if you've got a middle class job you want to hold on to that, because they ain't making many more.

Sharizard
Jun 15, 2009

Xandu posted:

Take a step back for a minute. What's the real issue here, that you aren't using your hands and creating things or doing manual labor, or that you aren't doing meaningful work that makes a difference? They're not the same thing, and if the latter is the real issue, I don't see how going into welding or something similar is going to help.

BCR posted:

With the economy in the new normal if you've got a middle class job you want to hold on to that, because they ain't making many more.

Looking a bit deeper, I think the issue I'm having is that I'm burnt out on web development and want to try something completely different that doesn't involve me sitting at a computer all day. My previous job had me at such a miserable state that my morale to do any sort of web or app programming has seriously declined and I don't know what to do to besides learn another skill. I figured something hands-on would be a good idea.

By "meaningful work", I associate being able to construct tangible things for people to use as something much more constructive than making websites for clients and living the office life.

The "making a difference part", I have no idea why I put that in the explanation, but I think it lends towards my general mindset that creating tangible goods would be more rewarding than making yet another brochure site or entertainment app. (I'm probably just jaded.) I think I may have also been wooed by claims that manufacturing jobs are going to be in demand once all the baby boomers die out and the "not enough skilled workers" cries some manufacturers are apparently yelling.

It would probably be better if I find some sort of job that utilizes my programming knowledge as well as some other skills, but I don't know where to begin.

EDIT: A bit more clarification.

Sharizard fucked around with this message at 23:54 on Apr 22, 2014

Pistol Packin Poet
Nov 5, 2012

Everyone needs an
escape goat!
I've been a bank teller for about 8 months at a local regional bank and I was thinking about jumping ship to another competitor. I built a lot of good relationships from my current branch, but felt that there was an opportunity waiting for me to advance on my career path while making more money.

My current situation at my bank is that we are running with a skeleton crew since one of my co-workers is on maternity leave while another was promoted to the main office. This led me to being given more hours lately and there were talks of promoting me to the Senior Bank Teller position upgrading my pay a dollar more an hour. Aside from a few members of the bank, I really like working with my co-workers. I do have a good working relationship with my market manager, teller manager, and teller lead. Unfortunately, there are a few things that put my moral at an all-time low.

While there are both positives and negatives to working at my current bank, I feel the need for a fresh start elsewhere. I will be given more hours and a decent starting salary if I jump ship. I just feel a little guilty jumping from my bank to a competitor after working hard to get adjusted with my branch. And I feel like I'm screwing people at my branch over since they are already hiring another teller while working with a skeleton crew after just giving me more hours.

What should I do? Should I stick with my just above low morale, minimum wage job or should I take a job that would advance my career? Thanks in advance!

EDIT:

corkskroo posted:

I was the hiring manager at company A in this exact scenario one time last year and all I did was shake my fist impotently at my phone when I got this news and then we all went on with our lives. Like the post I quoted said, do what's right for you. The companies won't lose sleep over it. You don't have any stake in their well-being and this point and vice versa.

I should've read this thread more closely, especially with the last page. This makes me feel better wanting to jump ship.

Pistol Packin Poet fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Apr 23, 2014

Rolled Cabbage
Sep 3, 2006
I like my current job, but I hate the corporate culture that goes with it. The company I work for is a medium business that's never lost its small business mindset, which means its not very good at operating as business as opposed to some kind of ideological vehicle. An example, my computer was an XP machine, I have a completely computer based job and do a lot of heavy duty graphics stuff, along with databases and stuff, so I would spend about 3 hours everyday just staring at the screen (this is not an exaggeration) waiting for it to finish crashing. It's been this way for years, the company knew about it, but didn't want to do anything about it, I'm not senior enough for a better machine. Fair enough. In a normal company you'd add up the hours of me sitting on my rear end vs cost of the computer and work it out, so when they hired my new boss and I told her about it, of course she went apeshit. Anyway, long and short of it is, there's only so much you can to do change corporate culture if you're not on the board or whatever, even if your manager's in your corner.

So I've been trying to get a new job for about 2 years, but my interviews have been getting progressively more terrible. So I figure I'm probably not going after the right kind of jobs, but I have absolutely no clue what the right kind might be.

Things I can do:
- Copywriting
- Translating
- Localisation management
- Excel/databases

Things I can't do/suck about current job:
- Super long hours
- Commute
- No respect (Sure big boss, it's definitely "after the noon" not "afternoon", I'm just an idiot that knows poo poo all about their native language. You should definitely plaster that all over your big, expensive promo then get angry at me)

Any ideas?

BCR
Jan 23, 2011

Rolled Cabbage posted:

I like my current job, but I hate the corporate culture that goes with it. The company I work for is a medium business that's never lost its small business mindset, which means its not very good at operating as business as opposed to some kind of ideological vehicle. An example, my computer was an XP machine, I have a completely computer based job and do a lot of heavy duty graphics stuff, along with databases and stuff, so I would spend about 3 hours everyday just staring at the screen (this is not an exaggeration) waiting for it to finish crashing. It's been this way for years, the company knew about it, but didn't want to do anything about it, I'm not senior enough for a better machine. Fair enough. In a normal company you'd add up the hours of me sitting on my rear end vs cost of the computer and work it out, so when they hired my new boss and I told her about it, of course she went apeshit. Anyway, long and short of it is, there's only so much you can to do change corporate culture if you're not on the board or whatever, even if your manager's in your corner.

So I've been trying to get a new job for about 2 years, but my interviews have been getting progressively more terrible. So I figure I'm probably not going after the right kind of jobs, but I have absolutely no clue what the right kind might be.

Things I can do:
- Copywriting
- Translating
- Localisation management
- Excel/databases

Things I can't do/suck about current job:
- Super long hours
- Commute
- No respect (Sure big boss, it's definitely "after the noon" not "afternoon", I'm just an idiot that knows poo poo all about their native language. You should definitely plaster that all over your big, expensive promo then get angry at me)

Any ideas?

Cut and paste the work section from your resume.
Have you got good samples of work you've translated and copy edited?
What do you want from the job and how much do you want to be paid?

BCR
Jan 23, 2011

Pistol Packin Poet posted:

I've been a bank teller for about 8 months at a local regional bank and I was thinking about jumping ship to another competitor. I built a lot of good relationships from my current branch, but felt that there was an opportunity waiting for me to advance on my career path while making more money.

My current situation at my bank is that we are running with a skeleton crew since one of my co-workers is on maternity leave while another was promoted to the main office. This led me to being given more hours lately and there were talks of promoting me to the Senior Bank Teller position upgrading my pay a dollar more an hour. Aside from a few members of the bank, I really like working with my co-workers. I do have a good working relationship with my market manager, teller manager, and teller lead. Unfortunately, there are a few things that put my moral at an all-time low.

While there are both positives and negatives to working at my current bank, I feel the need for a fresh start elsewhere. I will be given more hours and a decent starting salary if I jump ship. I just feel a little guilty jumping from my bank to a competitor after working hard to get adjusted with my branch. And I feel like I'm screwing people at my branch over since they are already hiring another teller while working with a skeleton crew after just giving me more hours.

What should I do? Should I stick with my just above low morale, minimum wage job or should I take a job that would advance my career? Thanks in advance!

EDIT:

I should've read this thread more closely, especially with the last page. This makes me feel better wanting to jump ship.
Brush up your resume, finish any qualifications you can earn at your employer, change job, receive pay rise of 10%, stay at next job for a couple of years. Repeat. The biggest pay rise you'll recieve is when you change jobs. The only reason you stay at one job for a while is to learn new skills for the next job move and next pay rise.

ILoveYou
Apr 21, 2010

a

ILoveYou fucked around with this message at 03:23 on Dec 9, 2020

BCR
Jan 23, 2011

There's more money and future job options in analysis. You can always use your existing experience in investigations to show you have a more developed idea than any of your revivals.

I hate he cold but out of the options, you'll have a clean start, with people who enjoy their job, and are setting yourself up for future job moves. If you put up with the cold for a few years, you'd be able to jump up to the $80-100k.

Your existing company has hosed you around and will continue to gently caress you around. Don't reward that behaviour.

The easiest way to think about it is which job sets you up for the next state of your career and the job you'll be applying for in 3-5 years time.
Other legit factors being where's best for kids, family etc. your partner will probably have more options in Chicago than DFW.

Angry Lobster
May 16, 2011

Served with honor
and some clarified butter.
Hello fellow goons, I'm at a crossroads and I need some sound advice, but I'm afraid my career path and future is somewhat atypical, but I'll try to explain:

I'm twenty-seven, I'm from western Europe, I graduated from law school three years ago, but I didn't want to go into the lawyer business because: a) I don't really like it b) My family doesn't have good connections c) Due to the economic situation, buffets are only recruiting interns (aka unpaid slave work) for the next 4+ years.

I did a Master's degree in a different branch, shipping business, and I worked in the business for one year at two different companies, one of them at a huge multinational, mainly at sales and operations, but it was very precarious entry-level jobs and they didn't have much future, so when my contract ended I got unemployed and been job-hunting since then, with disappointing results.

So, my situation is that I've hit a dead end looking for jobs in my industry, the only jobs I got offered where sales related positions with horrible wages. The problem is I'm not a really good salesman, not horrible but not good either, just decent if I pour into it a lot of effort, because I get burnt very fast. I feel there's nothing for me in this field on my country for a few years, so I think these are my options:

- Get out of there and go to UK. Some people advised me to go there, get part time work wherever I could find it, perfect my spoken English and try to get into the industry there. It's kind of a gamble.

- One of my best friends is an engineer who left your average engineering job in a big company in the city to go to his hometown, in a very rural area, and started from scratch an engineering firm in a very niche industry (biomass heating systems for industrial purposes) and it's growing fine. He's a man attached to the land, he does agriculture and forest exploitation activities too, and I've been providing him with legal consultation services for awhile, because even if he's a great engineer, he despises paperwork and he's horrible at it, so hires my services from time to time. He'd like to have me with him, because he will need help to continue growing in the near future (3 months) and he's been talking to me to become his partner in this and other future projects, I think it has serious potential to make serious money in a few years if a lot of work is invested in it.

Now I think I have to choice between continuing to pursue my fledgling career abroad or disregard what I have actually done until now, including some expensive education, and invest all my energies in an enterprise that may have potential, but It's really atypical and it may not allow me to change careers easily later if needed to. Another gamble.

It appears is time for me to man up and fully commit to one path or another, I just don't know what the gently caress I should do.

BCR
Jan 23, 2011

Take a chance with the biomass, it's not like the UK or the Great Recession are going away any time soon

ILoveYou
Apr 21, 2010

BCR posted:

There's more money and future job options in analysis. You can always use your existing experience in investigations to show you have a more developed idea than any of your revivals.

I hate he cold but out of the options, you'll have a clean start, with people who enjoy their job, and are setting yourself up for future job moves. If you put up with the cold for a few years, you'd be able to jump up to the $80-100k.

Your existing company has hosed you around and will continue to gently caress you around. Don't reward that behaviour.

The easiest way to think about it is which job sets you up for the next state of your career and the job you'll be applying for in 3-5 years time.
Other legit factors being where's best for kids, family etc. your partner will probably have more options in Chicago than DFW.

Thanks. I agree with you. Today, I told the TX company that my salary needs to more closely align the 65-70k that my GM told me to expect and they replied that they have no latitude on salary at this time. I think that pretty much says it all. The crazy thing is that there's just no way for them to have half the product they do now without me. I'm the only one that can correctly train people so it's crazy that they have no desire to negotiate. I'm kind of glad because it makes my choice easier. I mean, who refuses to negotiate with someone that has a vital skill you need? Someone that doesn't think your skills are all that vital, I guess.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.
Let us know if they suddenly discover some latitude when you put in notice. Those stories are always funny.

ILoveYou
Apr 21, 2010

I look forward to it too. It's sad actually. I would've moved to Texas if they didn't completely insult me with the job offer they made. I could've made more money than their first offer by staying at the job I had at college and getting a promotion from Security Officer to Senior Security Officer. The worst part is the president of TX company is a really accomplished guy. He was CEO of a Fortune 100 at 29, built and flipped companies successfully all his life. He should've known what he was getting into here. Maybe he does.

MussoliniB
Aug 22, 2009
I finally, after changing my major no less than 7 times, found a career that I am very interested in. I'm getting a degree in Sign Language Interpreting. I am a male, I live in Michigan, I'm 28, I'll be 29 when I finish my degree and go to get licensed. I'm currently working 50 hours a week just managing a gas station, but I've been saving money like crazy. I will have 20k saved up by my last year of college, so I plan on quitting my job and focusing solely on sign language before I get licensed, so I can do it flawlessly (or, at least, that's the plan). I've been researching careers in interpreting and it seems like my best bet for a career will be working for a Video Relay Service, School, or Hospital. I've also read research that said that the job supply for interpreters is increasing 46% year after year, so the demand is always increasing. All of my teachers and peers go on and on and on about how I'm going to have the easiest time finding jobs because I'm male, but people also tell me about all these 50-somethings (all of which are female) that know sign language and interpreting just didn't work out for them. Is there anyone in the field that really makes a living? Or is there anyone that has any advice for an up and comer?

Busy Bee
Jul 13, 2004
I have a phone screen next week for a Scheduling Analyst position at an insurance company. The job description is as follows:

"As part of the Claims Workforce Management team, the Scheduling Analyst will perform analysis on a variety of topics and conduct research in support of project work and business cases.

Responsibilities:

* Monitors call arrival patterns and compares them against previously determined forecasts. Makes staffing and workflow decisions based upon net lines and staffing ability to meet business objectives.
* Allocates staffing resources to handle call flow for all operations across the country in support of multiple departments within Personal Insurance Claims Organization.
* Authorizes and distributes off line activities, additional hours and/ or overtime, canceling of events and utilizes creative scheduling processes to ensure business objectives are met.
* Communicates with all levels of Management regarding daily performance and actions taken to improve results.
* Evaluates and models data and provides reports, analyses and recommendations to enhance business results.
* Analyzes and documents business problems of moderate complexity.
* This position requires the support of all operations with actual work schedules based on support need. Current hours of operation are 5a-5p, Monday - Friday, 7a-315p Saturday and Sunday."

I'm trying to get a clearer picture of what I will actually be responsible for for this position. My understanding is that the Claims Workforce Management team manages all incoming claims with that insurance company. This position will work with / within a call center and analyze call patterns to make decisions on how many people to staff at certain hours. While also communicating with upper management and evaluating data and analysis of incoming number of claims.

Am I missing anything here or do you believe that this posting is pretty straight forward?

Kim Jong Il
Aug 16, 2003
I'll soon be switching from my small company to one of the biggest in the world. Interview went shockingly well and they pretty much offered me it on the spot with a huge pay increase. That being said, still a little terrified about completely switching environments (I've worked corporate before but it was in an especially bad place under financial stress, while this one is raking in the bucks.) Also nervous about the fact that your job could suddenly be eliminated tomorrow on the whims of some senior VP, although pretty much everything on paper suggests this is as high growth and high priority as it gets. It's also a completely different software package, although the same fundamental ideas apply to what I'm doing now (burgeoning kind of data analysis where there really aren't much in the way of set industry standards.)

So yeah, I'm just anxious - both about this itself, and of committing some terrible social faux pas because I don't know any better. But it really is a great opportunity, and I'm pretty sure I can go back to my current one at a moment's notice if it doesn't work out.

corkskroo
Sep 10, 2004

You've been in corporate before but really so much of it is just common sense with the odd counterintuitive move mixed in. You'll do fine, just keep your wits about you, help everyone, don't piss anyone off, and don't take poo poo personally. I went from tiny companies to a major one and, after a lot of farting around in the dark, took it and ran with it. It's easy if you're not a dummy.

Rolled Cabbage
Sep 3, 2006

BCR posted:

Cut and paste the work section from your resume.
Have you got good samples of work you've translated and copy edited?
What do you want from the job and how much do you want to be paid?
1. I've scrubbed it a bit, but it's still more or less the same.

[snip]

2. Yes and no. I've massed quite a few cool things over the years, but I don't think I have got anything impressive that's not under an NDA or had hair-tearing post-edits done by the client. I don't want to put up my 'version' in a portfolio and have the client google it and find something lovely. I've tried for social media jobs in the past and I think part of my crashing & burning is caused by them looking it up before the interview and seeing how disorganised and last minute everything is.

3. I want the employer to make an effort to give me the time and tools I need to perform my job correctly, to be in an environment where I'm expected to have my own opinions and defend them (within reason), and it not be kindergarten. If I've been busting my rear end working to 2am on essential projects, I don't want someone else's manager reporting me for coming in at 9.15 the next day. As for pay I don't really care as long as it's livable, there's a posibility it can be reviewed and I'm not being massively underpaid compared with similar competitors.

Rolled Cabbage fucked around with this message at 07:59 on May 15, 2014

Ragingsheep
Nov 7, 2009
Anyone have advice on working overseas? I know the best way would be for my existing employer to shift me to another office but that's unlikely to happen. Looking at the US or UK mainly.

Unfortunately I don't have citizenship for either of those countries.

devoir
Nov 16, 2007

Ragingsheep posted:

Anyone have advice on working overseas? I know the best way would be for my existing employer to shift me to another office but that's unlikely to happen. Looking at the US or UK mainly.

Unfortunately I don't have citizenship for either of those countries.

Where are you at in your career? Which industry/field?

Ragingsheep
Nov 7, 2009
I do business consulting work on banking related projects for a boutique consultancy in Australia.

devoir
Nov 16, 2007

Ragingsheep posted:

I do business consulting work on banking related projects for a boutique consultancy in Australia.

Australians qualify for a separate classification of employer-sponsored visas (E3) in the US. Without knowing a huge amount about your field, it sounds like something that you could convince a firm to cover if you've got skill-set and experience they want. Start networking, and if you want a recommendation for a lawyer I'd suggest going with http://www.mccownevans.com/. Kelly McCown is excellent - aside from my personal case and other various accomplishments, she was the first immigration lawyer to handle a case where an eSports athlete was brought in under the Professional Athlete visa. The costs aren't particularly high; I believe it'd be about mid-five digits.

I almost went down the E3 path, but circumstances changed and I didn't up needing an employer-sponsored visa. Unsure about the UK as I was never interested enough to investigate.

Renegret
May 26, 2007

THANK YOU FOR CALLING HELP DOG, INC.

YOUR POSITION IN THE QUEUE IS *pbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbt*


Cat Army Sworn Enemy
e: Nevermind, I should stop being a little bitch.

Renegret fucked around with this message at 13:16 on May 18, 2014

yoyomama
Dec 28, 2008
^^^

I would say to think about how this will fit into your career plans. If the new job is something you want to do (or at least involves skills you want to gain for your intended career path), then it would be worth considering. If it's just "why not?", then I'd say re-think it, since you'll get the same pay (and don't count on negotiating a raise), and more work. Getting the chance to learn new things is great, but in the context of work, only if it helps you to gain skills you need for your career (and it helps you either get more money or make your position more secure in a company you want to work at long term). Also, quality of life is a factor, and if you'd be working with assholes, that's a negative as well. The people you work with matter.

All in all, it looks like it's not better than your current position. Again, unless you think it'll help your long-term career plans, you could consider staying in your current position (and keep that three-day weekend) and looking for jobs somewhere else (and having a weekday off will help when you go on interviews). If you wanna get paid more, you find a job with a new employer. Also, don't work nights. Please please please don't work nights.

yoyomama fucked around with this message at 13:29 on May 18, 2014

Renegret
May 26, 2007

THANK YOU FOR CALLING HELP DOG, INC.

YOUR POSITION IN THE QUEUE IS *pbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbt*


Cat Army Sworn Enemy

yoyomama posted:

I would say to think about how this will fit into your career plans. If the new job is something you want to do (or at least involves skills you want to gain for your intended career path), then it would be worth considering. If it's just "why not?", then I'd say re-think it, since you'll get the same pay (and don't count on negotiating a raise), and more work. Getting the chance to learn new things is great, but in the context of work, only if it helps you to gain skills you need for your career (and it helps you either get more money or make your position more secure in a company you want to work at long term). Also, quality of life is a factor, and if you'd be working with assholes, that's a negative as well. The people you work with matter.

All in all, it looks like it's not better than your current position. Again, unless you think it'll help your long-term career plans, you could consider staying in your current position (and keep that three-day weekend) and looking for jobs somewhere else (and having a weekday off will help when you go on interviews). If you wanna get paid more, you find a job with a new employer. Also, don't work nights. Please please please don't work nights.

It's purely part of a long term plan. It's a department that I would have liked to go to in the future, just not on that schedule. I'm comfortable where I am now, but I'm not learning anything new, and I already feel myself beginning to stagnate.

I edited it out because it's officially considered a "training opportunity". If I don't like it, I can have my old job back. The reason I'm running off of the assumption that it's permanent is because that's how things usually work around here, but I'll be given an out if it doesn't work out.

And yes I'd be working with people I don't like, but I don't like the people I work with right now. There's a chance I'll like them more once I start working with them more closely. In the worst case scenario I can come up with, I still walk away with some really good training that I can take to another company.

Renegret fucked around with this message at 13:29 on May 18, 2014

yoyomama
Dec 28, 2008
Fair enough, but even so, if you're gonna spend your time doing that training, it was worth taking the time to think about pursuing it. That said, since it does fit into your long term goals, go for it, and best of luck to you.

denzelcurrypower
Jan 28, 2011
Any suggestions for a college program I can take that will guarantee me a decent job in Canada? I have a worthless BA in Music and am considering studying to be an electrician or possibly some kind of computer science. My main requirements are job security and demand, decent pay and having a reliable income. Preferably a job that doesn't involve dealing with people too much. Beyond that, I don't really care. I'm also considering a college course to become a hearing technician since there will be lots more seniors soon, plus it's kinda related to music. Anyone have tips?

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.
CS is a good choice for that assuming you can hack it, and spend long hours coding without wanting to kill yourself.

Smugworth
Apr 18, 2003

Cicero posted:

CS is a good choice for that assuming you can hack it, and spend long hours coding without wanting to kill yourself.

I can't help but assume there's going to be a glut of CS grads in the next few years driving down salaries given how popular it seems to be to major in.

Hopefully most CS majors will just be lovely programmers, but I'm still a bit nervous and want to graduate ASAP.

denzelcurrypower
Jan 28, 2011

Cicero posted:

CS is a good choice for that assuming you can hack it, and spend long hours coding without wanting to kill yourself.

Is college a viable route for computer science? Note I'm in Canada, here college is usually for applied subjects like trades and such. Most jobs I've seen here seem to require a BA in computer science. I don't want to go to university again though, I like the co-op/work experience/apprenticeships that are offered in college programs.

Cicero
Dec 17, 2003

Jumpjet, melta, jumpjet. Repeat for ten minutes or until victory is assured.

plumper fuckbus posted:

I can't help but assume there's going to be a glut of CS grads in the next few years driving down salaries given how popular it seems to be to major in.
That's certainly possible. I mean, that's what's supposed to happen in a free(ish) market, right? And the flip side should be that other majors' occupations should start paying slightly more as their supply of new grads goes down. Who knows if that will actually happen though.

That said, I'm not super worried. Wages are so high right now that if they stagnated for a while that'd be fine, heck they could drop 25% and I'd hardly be destitute. Plus, while the bare basics of programming are pretty easy (anyone who can do high school algebra can figure out variables, loops, conditionals, etc.) in a real world application it's actually fairly challenging, mainly due to sheer scale. Learning the ins and outs of an application that is tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of lines of code, written over the course of years by three dozen different programmers with differing styles and conventions, separated into dozens of classes and packages and different systems, is hard. Hard enough that I don't think a large, permanent* salary drop is very likely except perhaps over the very long term, because most people probably can't handle non-trivial programming.

* we may be in somewhat of a bubble right now, so if that pops you'll probably see salaries drop a bit for a few years

MoosetheMooche posted:

Is college a viable route for computer science? Note I'm in Canada, here college is usually for applied subjects like trades and such. Most jobs I've seen here seem to require a BA in computer science. I don't want to go to university again though, I like the co-op/work experience/apprenticeships that are offered in college programs.
Yeah, in the states "college" is a generic term that can refer to 2-year community colleges, 4-year colleges, or universities.

I know the University of Waterloo is very well known for its co-op programs, so I wouldn't necessarily rule out university, although I have no clue about co-op programs at other Canadian schools.

edit: see - https://uwaterloo.ca/co-operative-education/about-co-operative-education

Cicero fucked around with this message at 19:15 on May 22, 2014

ultrafilter
Aug 23, 2007

It's okay if you have any questions.


MoosetheMooche posted:

Is college a viable route for computer science? Note I'm in Canada, here college is usually for applied subjects like trades and such. Most jobs I've seen here seem to require a BA in computer science. I don't want to go to university again though, I like the co-op/work experience/apprenticeships that are offered in college programs.

The US doesn't have the same distinction between college and university that Canada does. Here we generally refer to all bachelor's granting institutions as colleges. Our closest equivalent to your colleges are what we call community colleges.

ForeverSmug
Oct 9, 2012

I've got a Bachelors in Graphic Design and a Masters in Art. I hate it and the thought of burning the rest of my life up doing that makes me sick.

My last job, technically a GA, was for two and a half years doing small-scale database work for a bunch of local schools.

The office originally collected data from the schools, then manually input a bunch of data; I helped them set up something so that the schools could do it offsite.

I did a bunch of Excel output and graphs, and had to handle some gnarly Vlookup stuff (like a few hundred page pdf document containing a table with cells of no standard size that needed data parsed and organized). I also wrote a bunch of C# programs and Python scripts for the office for things like sorting data, quick data entry for specialized tasks, and outputting excel sheets. Plus general office hardware stuff- setting up printers and networking then, computers, iPads, adware cleaning, or whatever else they needed.

Skillwise I know some C#, Python, Javascript, and I've done a little C++, PHP, mySql, and Android development.

It's been a few months since I left and I have no idea what to do. Honestly I'd be okay doing something like that again; at this point I'd do about anything that'd pay me and be stable. I just don't think I'm really qualified for anything. I guess maybe clerical work or something? I've also been studying for the A+ cert; maybe I can get a lovely help desk job somewhere.

I'm wondering if anybody has any experience with temp agencies? Maybe one of them could find somewhere that could use me.

What I want more than anything is to move out of state because there is absolutely nothing bar retail or food service here. I figure maybe a temp agency might also be able to help me get set up somewhere, since no job will hire out of state applicants.

At 25 I'm probably way too old to get started with IT or something. I wish I'd done anything else with my life than what I did, but the damage is done. At this point I've basically got no prospects, no hope, and no idea what to do.

yoyomama
Dec 28, 2008

ForeverSmug posted:

I've got a Bachelors in Graphic Design and a Masters in Art. I hate it and the thought of burning the rest of my life up doing that makes me sick.

My last job, technically a GA, was for two and a half years doing small-scale database work for a bunch of local schools.

The office originally collected data from the schools, then manually input a bunch of data; I helped them set up something so that the schools could do it offsite.

I did a bunch of Excel output and graphs, and had to handle some gnarly Vlookup stuff (like a few hundred page pdf document containing a table with cells of no standard size that needed data parsed and organized). I also wrote a bunch of C# programs and Python scripts for the office for things like sorting data, quick data entry for specialized tasks, and outputting excel sheets. Plus general office hardware stuff- setting up printers and networking then, computers, iPads, adware cleaning, or whatever else they needed.

Skillwise I know some C#, Python, Javascript, and I've done a little C++, PHP, mySql, and Android development.

It's been a few months since I left and I have no idea what to do. Honestly I'd be okay doing something like that again; at this point I'd do about anything that'd pay me and be stable. I just don't think I'm really qualified for anything. I guess maybe clerical work or something? I've also been studying for the A+ cert; maybe I can get a lovely help desk job somewhere.

I'm wondering if anybody has any experience with temp agencies? Maybe one of them could find somewhere that could use me.

What I want more than anything is to move out of state because there is absolutely nothing bar retail or food service here. I figure maybe a temp agency might also be able to help me get set up somewhere, since no job will hire out of state applicants.

At 25 I'm probably way too old to get started with IT or something. I wish I'd done anything else with my life than what I did, but the damage is done. At this point I've basically got no prospects, no hope, and no idea what to do.

I can't help much, but I would look at database management and/or data analyst positions and see if that career path appeals to you. I know where I work we have someone that can set up databases for us, I'm assuming using skills similar to the ones you mentioned. I recently saw positions like these posted in schools where they wanted someone who could do things like this (working with school data, setting up and maintaining databases) on places like idealist. For any jobs and orgs that exist where working with data is a part of what they do, they need someone that can get that data to them and/or make whatever system will help them keep adding and managing data without it it all becoming a mess.

Granted, I don't know anything about this as a career and how stable/well-paying it is, but I do know that I see those skills being listed for jobs in education, policy work, research consulting, etc. Especially if you've worked with a school for the last 2.5 years, that wold be valuable experience for any positions that want someone who can work with education data. That said, I don't think skills like this would only be limited to education/ngo/etc. sector, but since you worked with schools already, why not look for another position like the one you previously had? I've also seen mention of using Salesforce for some of these positions; I know nothing about it myself, but I'd suggest looking it up and seeing if working with it is a skillset you'd also want to build.

DukAmok
Sep 21, 2006

Using drugs will kill. So be for real.

ForeverSmug posted:

I've got a Bachelors in Graphic Design and a Masters in Art. I hate it and the thought of burning the rest of my life up doing that makes me sick.

My last job, technically a GA, was for two and a half years doing small-scale database work for a bunch of local schools.

Agreed with above poster, you'll definitely want to look into Analyst work. I'm currently looking for a Business Analyst and would love to find someone who can attack ungainly problems like extracting data from PDFs, as well as be able to present that data intuitively using visualizations. Toss in some programming and SQL knowledge, and you're a very strong candidate. Data analyst, business analyst, sales analyst, anything like that is probably right up your alley if you enjoyed that type of work you described for the school district.

Don't be hard on yourself, you're only 25. You've got plenty of prospects, keep your head up and try not to think in terms of what you have done, but what you can do. I mean that from the perspective of your past schooling, but similarly when looking for positions with companies. Companies you'd want to work for care far more about what you can do for them, and less about what you've done specifically in the past.

Doghouse
Oct 22, 2004

I was playing Harvest Moon 64 with this kid who lived on my street and my cows were not doing well and I got so raged up and frustrated that my eyes welled up with tears and my friend was like are you crying dude. Are you crying because of the cows. I didn't understand the feeding mechanic.

ForeverSmug posted:

I've got a Bachelors in Graphic Design and a Masters in Art. I hate it and the thought of burning the rest of my life up doing that makes me sick...

I also wrote a bunch of C# programs and Python scripts for the office for things like sorting data, quick data entry for specialized tasks, and outputting excel sheets...

Skillwise I know some C#, Python, Javascript, and I've done a little C++, PHP, mySql, and Android development.

....

At 25 I'm probably way too old to get started with IT or something. I wish I'd done anything else with my life than what I did, but the damage is done. At this point I've basically got no prospects, no hope, and no idea what to do.

Why not go into software engineering? Sounds like you have some skills, at least. And 25 is not that old. I'm 29 and almost halfway through a two year masters in CS, after getting a useless BA in English. I've had a few interviews at cool places so far, hopefully I'll get something. But it can be done, don't give up hope. You might not even need to go to school, you could use your existing skills as a start and learn more on your own.

Lampsacus
Oct 21, 2008

25 is not too old by a long shot. A fallacy of youth is lack of perspective on age. You're fine, dude. I'm about to turn 25 and starting a BSc. in Computer Science so I can also go into software development. It's all good. There there.

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Shrieking Muppet
Jul 16, 2006
So I'm in a bit of a conundrum right now with my career and would like to hear thoughts what would be a better option.

I currently have a Masters in Chemistry and I work for a GMP lab running NMR, its all NMR all the time. structures, quantitative NMR, Method Development and Validation, fixing and calibrating instruments its all I do. I know what KF, HPLC, MS, ROI are but never run them maybe look at data if needed. I have been here about 3 years now and have a very good understanding of how GMP works and things that you should and shouldn't do (at least here). The last 6 months the job has gotten very unbearable, without going into details this mostly has to do with my supervisor being unpleasant to work for and my realization that I am in a organization where I will not rise above a lab tech with a fancy title. I have started to look else where for a bit now but keep running into a annoying wall, my experience is all in NMR but when I find NMR positions they always want a phd or 10 years of experience. When I say "hey maybe I can just do GMP work!" all I find are jobs that want HPLC, MS or QC experience, the way its looking my options are:

Double down on the madness and get a phd so that I can maybe do NMR for the rest of my life, which I will admit I love the technique and it opens the option of teaching at a college as well, but the thought of a perpetual post doc and having to justify my existence for ever isn't that appealing.

Accept that, much like the villain in Indiana Jones and the last crusade, I chose poorly and go apply at another lab for an entry level position in HPLC, MS or Just plain QC and start from the bottom.

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