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+MA. Nothing quite like overtaking a skaven, going 'sup?' and backhanding it with a claw.
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May 17, 2014 14:33
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 07:53 |
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+AV
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May 17, 2014 14:56
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Current Vote Tally is +MA - 26 +AV - 11 Sneaky Git - 1 Normally I'm going to try and be impartial with the skill votes. I'm all for "non-traditional" skills and building a team that's more fun and less efficient but I would never want to give the impression that +AV is ever better than +MA in any situation. That's inhumane. My next giant newbie hyperpost is going to be going over all of the General, Agility, Strength, Passing and Mutation skills. Not as much about what they actually mechanically do in the game, you can find that out by reading about them in the rulebook, in the game itself when you go to level, or from the IRC bot, Bloodbot. I will be talking about why they're good or bad, essential or not, and discuss them a bit tactically.
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May 17, 2014 16:54
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The main advantage of a treeman on a Wood Elf team is having something more durable than a line-elf to repeatedly put on the line of scrimmage. Expensive AV7 players + multiple touchdowns per game is a good way for a very successful, then very dead team. Falling on it's arse is hardly the end of the world either, when the rest of the team can break cages with surgical precision and generally make the most bullshit plays in the game.
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May 17, 2014 17:10
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MA is clearly the superior choice. If you wolfs get blocked, you are doing it somewhat wrong anyway. Btw: + AG wolfs are also cool.
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May 17, 2014 17:28
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+MA so you can surf people even farther away from you. Nowhere on the field shall be safe.
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May 17, 2014 17:51
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I think the issue here is that the "correct" skill is also the most fun option. Not dieing is boring, but going fast is fun.
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May 17, 2014 18:02
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Fire the werewolf and get a new one. Repeat until his first skill roll is +ST.
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May 17, 2014 18:25
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Prav posted:Fire the werewolf and get a new one. Repeat until his first skill roll is +ST. I did a double take for a second here. Some of you might know why. Anyways, clearly the order of the day is +AV, and I'm not one to fight a good bandwagon of
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May 17, 2014 18:31
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+MA I named the wolf, so I don't want to vote for a bad stat up. I'll vote for dumb skills on the others though. (Hello, Shadowing Flesh Golem)
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May 17, 2014 19:32
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+MA holy poo poo +MA The Wolves are already Necro's best players (shame on Gnu for only starting with one), but a movement 9 Wolf is double-awesome.
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May 17, 2014 20:20
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Throwing my vote away with Dodge, just to be different!
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May 17, 2014 20:44
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GNU Order posted:If you want some surf-heavy Blood Bowl perhaps I can direct you to the Norse Democracy LP 420 surf erryday. That being said +MA is really the only choice here.
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May 18, 2014 01:34
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+MA. MA is always, always super helpful. The guy saying "Dodge" is also onto something, because it's arguably a more useful defensive skill early on than Block, but MA is worth it if you get the opportunity. Also it means we're on the road to an MA10 wolf.
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May 18, 2014 02:45
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More movement. It lets McGruff get next to dudes and murder them. End of story.
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May 18, 2014 08:29
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Gonna go ahead and call it a bit early, +MA it is zoom zoom btw I'm glad nobody has called me out on spelling McGruff wrong
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May 18, 2014 15:04
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GNU Order posted:zoom zoom Da red wunz go fasta! GNU Order posted:btw I'm glad nobody has called me out on spelling McGruff wrong Don't worry, you can fix the mistake after someone gets an 8 in an armour break roll and kills it. Speaking of which, 4 consecutive dead rolls seems incredible unlikely. Dead is 1 in 6 after rolling for injury, isn't it?
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May 18, 2014 15:42
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Fat Samurai posted:Speaking of which, 4 consecutive dead rolls seems incredible unlikely. Dead is 1 in 6 after rolling for injury, isn't it? Correct. On the CAS roll, 1-3 is just Badly Hurt, 4 is Miss Next Game, 5 is Serious Injury (Niggling Injury or Stat Decrease) and 6 is Death. So, funnily enough, because of how CAS mechanics work, it's more likely to get Dead than, say, -MA or -AV. However the number of deaths vs other CAS in this match was ridiculous.
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May 18, 2014 15:48
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Fat Samurai posted:Speaking of which, 4 consecutive dead rolls seems incredible unlikely. Indredibly unlikely. But really funny and satisfying when it happens to the other guy.
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May 18, 2014 17:51
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Fat Samurai posted:Da red wunz go fasta! He's got 8 armour so it would take a roll of 9 to break. 
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May 18, 2014 18:33
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Hey y'all I posted the match order in the second post so you can go see how many matches to go until you play the LP team. If you want to be moved back or pushed forward let me know through PM's, email at gnuordersa @ gmail or just post here if you're super lazy
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May 19, 2014 03:49
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+MA wolf So fricking amazing. He's what happens when a Gutter Runner and a Minotaur have a child together.
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May 20, 2014 07:46
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Newbie/Rookie/Bad Player Knowledge Megapost So this next match is going to feature some players with Guard. Because of that, I should probably address Assists, Assist Mechanics, and how Guard works with regard to Assist mechanics properly in case it's not that clear in the video itself. Figuring out assists is something even veterans can struggle with so I'm gonna try my best to lay it out nice and simple. I'm going to be stealing these graphics from some fuckin Wordpress blog fwiw In the intro video, I stated that block dice are rolled based on comparing Strength scores, and that fellow players can give modifiers to that Strength check and help you beat your opponent's Strength score, as demonstrated here.  Blue L and Red L have the same Strength, so normally only a 1DB would be thrown. However, Blue B adds a +1 meaning Blue L gets to roll a 2db when they throw a punch. However, this modification works the other way around as well.  In this case, say Blue B wants to punch Red L. He gets the +1 from Blue L, but gets -1 from Red B. That's a net gain of zero and he throws a 1DB. Ok, let's try punching with Blue L, same scenario. Blue L would love to get the +1 from Blue B, but one of the important mechanics of Assists that I didn't bring up in the intro video is that assists can only come from unmarked players. So, Red B is essentially keeping Blue B from providing an assist. How would you get yourself out of this pickle? Well, the best way would probably be to bring a third blue player to allow Blue B to get a 2db on Red B. He would choose to not follow up (assuming some sort of push or pow) and stay where he is, freeing himself to make the unmarked assist on Red L. Here's a similar gridlock situation.  No player here is giving an assist on any other player, because whenever you go to make a block, the other opponent is cancelling out your teammate's ability to provide an assist. So, as you can see even in this isolated example, getting the assists just right can be tough, but often getting your assists right can lead to a cascading effect where a player knocks their opponent off, freeing them to assist another player who knocks their opponent off, who frees themselves to provide an assist to another player etc etc etc. Here's an example of a full match.  Just assume all players have ST 3 for simplicity's sake. This is a lot easier to look at and see the assist opportunities here than with the camera angle of a Cyanide match. It's possible to play Cyanide in this top-down, side to side view but I've just gotten so used to Cyanide camera that I don't want to change. But anyway, pretend you're the Purple team. You can start to see where the assists are, where you would want to start in your punching, and which punches you wouldn't want to throw till you can get some assists in. Now, pretend some of those cyan players are ST4, and some of your Purple players are ST 4. Now you're getting closer to Blood Bowl thinking. Now, assume some of those opponents go down easier, and some are more difficult to knock down. Some, when knocked down, are more prone to dying than others. Some opponents can Side Step away from your punches. Some have the Guard skill, which I'll get to in a second and can ruin your Assist analysis totally. Now you're even closer to the sort of thinking you need to do as you're playing a match. This is one of the many reasons why getting good at Blood Bowl requires you to play a lot. Now, in the upcoming match against Orks (video should be up in a couple days), there are two Orks who have the Guard skill. It's a very simple skill to describe, but can be critical in turning a brawl in your favor. A player with Guard will always provide a block modifier, even if they're marked by an opponent. So, consider this situation. Earlier, Blue B couldn't provide an assist because he was marked. However, if he has Guard he still provides the +1 assist and Blue L can throw a 2db. Of course, if Blue B himself wanted to punch either Red player, he'd only get a 1db. Also consider this situation again. We'll say that Blue B has guard again. If either Red L or Red B tries to punch Blue L, they would have to roll a -2db. Before it would have only been a 1db, because their ally would have cancelled out the negative modifier of Blue B. However, Guard means he provides that -1 no matter what, in addition to marking and cancelling out the +1 from either of the Red allies. If either of them tried to punch Blue B himself, though, it would still be a 1db. And, of course, if Blue L tried punching either Red B or Red L, he would get a 2db. So, getting a Guard player in the middle of a scrum means not only are your players better off from his assist, your opponents will have a harder time punching anybody else (other than the Guard player himself). This also means your Guard player becomes the prime target in a big scrum, so he better be really buff and strong or have some good support around him, possibly in the form of even more guarding players, forming the Great Wall of Guard Dudes. On Necromantic, Flesh Golems are tailor-made to be Guardlords, in the future. They are already ST 4 with high Armor Value, and they start with Stand Firm so they can't be pushed away from the action. If you can get a pair of Flolems with Block and Guard rooted right in the middle of the action they'll prove to be a huge headache for your opponent. And that was another edition of Blood Bowl 101. Your homework is to go play some fuckin' Blood Bowl. e- as always feedback and questions are welcome. It's nice to know if you guys are getting anything from these posts, because if you're not then either I need to fix them or not even bother doing them. GNU Order fucked around with this message at 07:59 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 07:50
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I'm liking the strategy posts. It's easier to get infodumps like this instead of in the middle of the match. Minor nitpick: Who do you need to be next to when making an assist, exactly? The player throwing it? The defending player? And what about assisting in defense? Your second image could be interpreted in a number of ways.
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May 20, 2014 08:48
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Fat Samurai posted:I'm liking the strategy posts. It's easier to get infodumps like this instead of in the middle of the match. An assist needs to be one of your players next to the opponent player you are blocking.
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May 20, 2014 08:58
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Good info, as a new player the assist mechanic is one I'm struggling with and that helps clear it up (and that I should really get Block/Guard on a few players!)
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May 20, 2014 09:12
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Grey Hunter posted:An assist needs to be one of your players next to the opponent player you are blocking. Or you are being blocked by. I'm just saying that the "target" player for an assist differs when you're receiveing or when you're throwing the block, and that can confuse new players. I know I got it worng in a number of games. GNU Order posted:
The way this is worded, you could interpret that both offensive and defensive assists work when you have a player next to the one throwing the block. Nothing in the other pictures refutes this. A new player that places his assisting player up and right to the one throwing the block is up for a nasty surprise. Again, this is a minor nitpick.
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May 20, 2014 09:33
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Also worth noting that the only skill that counters Guard is really more Guard. As Necromantic, you have 4 players with easy Guard access. 2 Wights, 2 Flesh Golems. That's about average. Some teams have no easy access (every elf type other than Wood Elves on their tree). Some teams can have it on every player (Chaos). The team we didn't pick, Lizards, has a super nasty Guard Wall of ST4/5 players, and they can outstrength pretty much any composition of opponents. Once they get developed, every one of their guys on the line is likely to be punching at effective ST6, and their Kroxigor often punches at 7 (so 3 dice against most unsupported players - brutal).
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May 20, 2014 13:59
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Fat Samurai posted:Again, this is a minor nitpick. No actually that's a totally valid comment. Understanding that allies only need to be next to opponents to add positive assist modifiers and that opponents only need to be next to the player throwing the block to add negative modifiers is an important part of positioning. Often times in these big scrums a single square difference can be huge in effectively shutting down or walling off your opponent, and it's important to think about the consequences of where you move your player when you come in to make an assist, because those consequences can often be lasting. Getting your players in the best position is something that has to be learned, and can often vary depending on how elfy or bashy your team is. My Hot Insider Tip w/r/t assist positioning and positioning in general is to try and think like your opponent. If you were your opponent, how would you go about attacking yourself? But that sort of thinking is probably better suited to the more intermediate skill level Blood Bowl player
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May 20, 2014 15:19
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Just be glad you're not having to work out who is assisting who in a 10 man mess on the tabletop.
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May 20, 2014 15:22
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Once you have the rules down it's pretty easy to spot assists at a glance. Learning to 'read' the playing field is half of getting good at bloodbowl.
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May 20, 2014 15:37
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Agent355 posted:Once you have the rules down it's pretty easy to spot assists at a glance. Learning to 'read' the playing field is half of getting good at bloodbowl. The hard part is remembering which of those seven Beastmen have Guard. Or STR 4. Or Claw.
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May 20, 2014 15:40
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Fat Samurai posted:The hard part is remembering which of those seven Beastmen have Guard. Or STR 4. Or Claw. Fumbbl superiority.
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May 20, 2014 15:57
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Fat Samurai posted:The hard part is remembering which of those seven Beastmen have Guard. Or STR 4. Or Claw. This is exactly why I have no idea how people played this game before the computer versions. Especially since it is a Games Workshop game I can really only imagine games going a bit like: 'Excuse me the red dot I painted on his left leg means he's the one with Guard so that block you just declared is 1db not 2db, no takebacks'
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May 20, 2014 16:53
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goatface posted:Just be glad you're not having to work out who is assisting who in a 10 man mess on the tabletop. 10 man mess where you need to refer to your teamlist to figure out who has guard. Dwarf vs Dwarf where only 4-5 dwarves on each team have guard, GOOD LUCK.
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May 20, 2014 17:03
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uPen posted:10 man mess where you need to refer to your teamlist to figure out who has guard. Dwarf vs Dwarf where only 4-5 dwarves on each team have guard, GOOD LUCK. Who in their right mind would ever want to play Dwarf vs Dwarf in the first place?
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May 20, 2014 17:09
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In my tabletop days it was common to put numbers on the players somehow, which could be easily looked up on the sheet of paper. Matches did take *hours*, though, between calculating probabilities of failure and triple-checking that that beastman didn't have tackle.
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May 20, 2014 17:09
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V. Illych L. posted:In my tabletop days it was common to put numbers on the players somehow, which could be easily looked up on the sheet of paper. That's what I do when I paint up a team. Most BB miniatures have an empty spot, usually on their back or shoulder just for that purpose.
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May 21, 2014 10:09
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 Match 3Fairly Elected (GNU Order, Necromantic) vs Arbiet Macht Fries (Magnetic North, Orc)  At the beginning of this video I messily introduced the idea of Team Value and Inducement Money. Every player on every team has a value, which is how much that player costs to buy. As you level up and get skills, your player's value goes up. Additionally, rerolls and any other factor of your team which costs money (Apothecary, Team Rerolls, Cheerleaders etc) increase what is called your Team Value, which is meant to be a measure of how experienced your team is. Most of the matches are going to be against teams which are very close in TV to my own. By factors of 10000, any time a team has a lower TV than their opponent, they are given 10000 in Inducement money, which they can use to buy, say, an extra reroll or an extra apothecary or a mercenary player for that match, to try and even the field. Because we are TV 1040 at the start of this match, and the Orks are TV 1150, we are given 110k in Inducement Money to even the gap (1150-1040 = 110). In most cases the amount of inducement money you get is so small that you can't actually buy anything with it, but in this case Magnetic North's team was high enough TV above my own for me to have some options. I chose to spend my money on a 4th reroll. Hopefully that clears it up a little better GNU Order fucked around with this message at 20:14 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 20:06
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 07:53 |
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That was some dodgy orc moves there. But they're agility 3, aren't they?
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May 22, 2014 21:22
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