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Straight edge is pretty much not taking any mind-altering substances at all, if I recall correctly; definitely no drugs or booze, at the very least, which as you say isn't really outside the norm at all.
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May 18, 2014 16:33
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Regalingualius posted:Straight edge is pretty much not taking any mind-altering substances at all, if I recall correctly; definitely no drugs or booze, at the very least, which as you say isn't really outside the norm at all. It is when everyone else is a JOCK SEX-HAVING PARTYING EXTRAVERT 
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May 18, 2014 16:35
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Straight edge is pretty much the opposite of being badass, that's the definition I've always stuck by.
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May 18, 2014 16:47
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B-but it's so hard being white! Waaaaaagh!
sweeperbravo posted:It is when everyone else is a JOCK SEX-HAVING PARTYING EXTRAVERT Ohh, right, that straight edge!  Which is TOTALLY JUST A LIFESTYLE CHOICE, AND NOT BECAUSE OF ANYTHING ELSE.
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May 18, 2014 16:47
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Regalingualius posted:Straight edge is pretty much not taking any mind-altering substances at all, if I recall correctly; definitely no drugs or booze, at the very least, which as you say isn't really outside the norm at all. No, you're thinking of people who just happen to not drink, smoke, or do drugs. Straight edgers are the type of people who love to tell you all about how they're above those things, so they can feel like they're better than you. Some of them also co-opt punk imagery, and depending on the group they'll also harass/attack people who they see using something they don't like. e: I mean look at this poo poo. http://www.buzzfeed.com/thesaccattack/15-worst-things-about-being-straightedge-5o2x worst things about being straight edge posted:5. The snide comments you hear when a friends drag you to a party. Wanamingo fucked around with this message at 17:09 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 18, 2014 17:05
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If you're so deeply invested in disliking kids that you actively identify as "The Childfree", as opposed to just saying "Eh, I'm not really interested in having kids" when someone else brings up the subject, then you're creepy and weird and should be mocked. The same is true for pretty much all of those categories. Nobody gives a poo poo that you're vegetarian unless you can't stop talking about how vegetarian you are for five seconds (which mostly just happens on TV). The only ones there that would creep people out even if you didn't talk about them constantly are furries and maybe anime (not anime in general because nobody cares if you like Pokemon, but specifically the child porn anime tropers think is true art). Oh, and "Vegephobes", because gently caress you that's not a thing. To be fair, the "people who think they don't want kids just haven't realized they do yet" thing does happen - for a prominent recent example, look at How I Met Your Mother. But the vast majority of the time it's directed at women, because their traditional role involves pumping out kids, whereas nobody cares if a man doesn't have kids. When it shows up, it's not really its own separate thing so much as one element of misogyny and traditional gender roles.
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May 18, 2014 17:18
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I really love how like a quarter of those "worst part about being straight edge" things are "ugh, people always think I'm part of this movement whose name, terminology, and aesthetic I have entirely adopted when clearly I am a unique snowflake"
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May 18, 2014 17:45
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The Vosgian Beast posted:You could tell that was all one person though, because it always started with "In the Webfiction Whateley Universe". Oh man, I remember that. I think they invented the Webfiction category just so that they'd be the only example in that category.
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May 18, 2014 18:15
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poo poo, I suppose technically I'm straight edge. I don't drink or do drugs for a bunch of reasons, mainly my religion and the medicine I'm on. But I've never had a problem with it, and no one's ever harassed me for it. Even here in Scotland where hard drinking is part of our culture. About the most questioning I get is something like: "They have a good range of beers here, that one's good." "Nah thanks, I don't drink." "Oh, right, I didn't know that." Then the conversation shifts to something else, or they might ask me why, or talk about other people they know who don't drink either. These days so many people don't drink for a lot of different reasons, some of them quite personal, that the vast majority of people really don't push it at all. The bar staff don't care as long as you buy something and they don't want the patrons to get too drunk, so everywhere stocks soft drinks too. If you don't make a big thing about it or judge other people for drinking alcohol, nobody really cares. Same goes for furries. I used to know a guy who liked to pretend he was a panda for some reason. But he only did it on his own, at conventions or with his girlfriend (who liked to dress up as a cat IIRC). It was pretty strange, but lots of couples have their own weird things they do in private, so nobody really cared, and we'd all just talk about other things or do other hobbies together, because he had other hobbies and interests and didn't make his whole life about furry stuff or expect other people to get it or be interested if it wasn't their thing.
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May 18, 2014 18:49
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People who are insufferable like to pretend it's everyone else's fault for being intolerant of [insert inherently innocuous trait here] instead of having to admit that they're annoying, and not even annoying in an endearing way.
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May 18, 2014 19:05
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I was straight edge in High School for like a year because I listened to a poo poo-ton of Minor Threat. Then I grew up.
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May 18, 2014 19:09
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Stottie Kyek posted:poo poo, I suppose technically I'm straight edge. I don't drink or do drugs for a bunch of reasons, mainly my religion and the medicine I'm on. But I've never had a problem with it, and no one's ever harassed me for it. Even here in Scotland where hard drinking is part of our culture. About the most questioning I get is something like: iirc Straightedge used to have a specific connotation to some punk scenes. Punks started getting too hosed up too often. Punk kids were getting fed up with their venue for expressing rage and discontent being co-opted by people that just wanted to get hosed up. They made a show of not taking drugs or alcohol as a way of rebelling against the dependence on those addictions. Still kind of insufferable, but I can get the reasoning. Nowadays most people that are Straightedge are just the beer variant of that vegan that ruins all your barbecues.
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May 18, 2014 19:23
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Lottery of Babylon posted:If you're so deeply invested in disliking kids that you actively identify as "The Childfree", as opposed to just saying "Eh, I'm not really interested in having kids" when someone else brings up the subject, then you're creepy and weird and should be mocked. The same is true for pretty much all of those categories. Nobody gives a poo poo that you're vegetarian unless you can't stop talking about how vegetarian you are for five seconds (which mostly just happens on TV). I've had it a lot. I get a bit tired of people telling me I'll change my mind about not wanting kids, since I've known for over half my life I don't want kids. My mum had people at her work asking her all the time if she was going to get grandchildren out of me. They never asked that question about my brother, who does love kids. That said, I grew out of the whole militant childfree thing ages ago, and the amount of body-shaming ('ewww disgusting stretch marks ewww') and internalised misogyny I saw in those groups made me cringe. Namtab - pretty much, yeah. You are not your hobby, you are not Naruto or MLP:FIM or Doctor Who. Liking those things is one thing, but going on about them all the time to people who couldn't care less, and not reading or watching anything else, is another. I mean, I like a bit of anime myself but most of my mates don't, so I don't talk about it with them, just as I wouldn't talk about football with people who couldn't give a toss about it. ETA: I know there are people who are extreme picky eaters who can't eat certain vegetables because they make them physically sick, but I suspect that's not the case here. NobbytheSheep fucked around with this message at 19:32 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 18, 2014 19:26
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Stottie Kyek posted:. These days so many people don't drink for a lot of different reasons, some of them quite personal, that the vast majority of people really don't push it at all. The bar staff don't care as long as you buy something and they don't want the patrons to get too drunk, so everywhere stocks soft drinks too. If you don't make a big thing about it or judge other people for drinking alcohol, nobody really cares. I've very occasionally got poo poo for saying politely 'No thanks, I don't drink.' But the word for a person who does that isn't 'bigot', it's 'alcoholic'.
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May 18, 2014 19:32
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Unrelated, but if there's one page on TV Tropes that really, really shouldn't have Real Life examples, it's Manic Pixie Dream Girl. Yeah, there's nothing remotely problematic about equating Yoko Ono (who was actually much smarter with money than John) or Zelda Fitzgerald with a trope that has been criticised by feminists as a shallow plot device that only exists to add a bit of wacky colour to the hero's life.
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May 18, 2014 19:46
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The difference between straightedge and a person who doesn't take mind-altering substances: Being straight-edge is something they tie to their core identity in the same way a fundamentalist Christian ties religion to their identity. It serve primarily as way of declaring yourself a Good Person, who makes the moral choice other people fail at. You know how otherkin are pretentious not only because they claim to be dragons, but because they use it to say "I'm just unique in this special, intangible way, it doesn't make me better than you (except it really does)"? That attitude is at the core of so much awkward behavior involving identity. If you really didn't believe that being straight-edge, a dragon in your soul, or a furry made you either a better person, or special and unique in a way most of society isn't, you wouldn't mention it.
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May 18, 2014 19:50
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NobbytheSheep posted:ETA: I know there are people who are extreme picky eaters who can't eat certain vegetables because they make them physically sick, but I suspect that's not the case here. That's probably down to a specific illness, possibly an eating disorder. There's a difference between not eating certain vegetables because they make you ill or because you really don't like the taste (I can't stand beans of any kind) and not eating any vegetables because it's your lifestyle choice. With vegetarianism, the protein from the meat can be replaced with protein from other sources, it's not as ideal as eating meat, but it's a perfectly valid option. With going non-vegetable, evidence suggests that vitamins and minerals taken from supplements are straight up worthless compared to those from fruits and vegetables. It's not a valid diet, it's a selfish one probably born out of a false sense that masculinity means eating more red meat raagh death murder as opposed to eating a balanced diet.
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May 18, 2014 20:08
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Nerds will be so much better off
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May 18, 2014 20:23
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The gendering of foods is not just a nerd thing, but I know what you mean. It's like the idea that sweet, healthy or diet foods are effeminate, and have to be repackaged as 'manly' so that insecure men will buy them. Bacon tea, for instance, or those 'man milkshakes' that were being advertised in the UK a while back. As a vegetarian Jew, I don't eat bacon anyway, but I hate this whole 'red meat is masculine! Vegetables are for faggots!' attitude some people have. One, it's just food and two, you're not going to be feeling so macho when you're constipated. Eating vegetables is not a question of manliness or effeminacy, it's common sense. (Actually, I think there's a trope for men who eat sweets, like L from Death Note.)
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May 18, 2014 20:54
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Gimnbo posted:Nerds will be so much better off Unless we're putting value on pounds per square inch, of course.
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May 18, 2014 20:55
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NobbytheSheep posted:two, you're not going to be feeling so macho when you're constipated. Being stuck composing a piece on the toilet is the epitome of masculine pastimes.
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May 18, 2014 21:04
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NobbytheSheep posted:The gendering of foods is not just a nerd thing, but I know what you mean. It's like the idea that sweet, healthy or diet foods are effeminate, and have to be repackaged as 'manly' so that insecure men will buy them. Bacon tea, for instance, or those 'man milkshakes' that were being advertised in the UK a while back. As a vegetarian Jew, I don't eat bacon anyway, but I hate this whole 'red meat is masculine! Vegetables are for faggots!' attitude some people have. One, it's just food and two, you're not going to be feeling so macho when you're constipated. Eating vegetables is not a question of manliness or effeminacy, it's common sense. (Actually, I think there's a trope for men who eat sweets, like L from Death Note.) I've always held a suspicion that gay men being allowed to appear as anything other than a mincing stereotype in a tutu played for laughs has triggered a backlash in the form of hyperemphasis on masculinity. Like, the idea that normal men could be gay, which means you have to actively assert your masculinity to prove that you aren't a cryptogay who looks relatively normal on the outside. There's just too much overlap between casual homophobia and the need to assert true masculinity.
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May 18, 2014 21:05
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Little Blackfly posted:I've always held a suspicion that gay men being allowed to appear as anything other than a mincing stereotype in a tutu played for laughs has triggered a backlash in the form of hyperemphasis on masculinity. Like, the idea that normal men could be gay, which means you have to actively assert your masculinity to prove that you aren't a cryptogay who looks relatively normal on the outside. There's just too much overlap between casual homophobia and the need to assert true masculinity. I could swear the term "hegan" (which is a "male vegan") was being thrown around a couple of weeks ago.
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May 18, 2014 21:20
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I'm gonna start off by saying that I don't really think a person being masculine or feminine is a problem of itself, the words have become problematic of late becasue they obviously refer to gender, but a man or woman is free to be as masculine or feminine as they want. Again, the problem with "masculinity" and "femininity" is about how people identify themselves, which is made worse by  , the concept that because someone is of a particular sex, they should act like it. It's like the person identifying as a gamer and solely going on about gaming, or as an otaku and only going on about anims, except obviously worse due to it revolving around gender issues. You're saying "I am a man" and basing your whole lifestyle around what you think being a man is. You're judging other men based on what you think being a man is. Same issues applies wrt ladies and femininity. I'm really not good at posting about issues like this because I don't find it easy to put my thoughts into words, but I don't think the concepts of masculinity and femininity are evil of themselves. I do think that the notion of judging people because of those concepts is what's evil. E: Seems like this also relates to GBLT issues that I'm not really at all qualified to speak about (and in some cases, don't really understand). People should just try not to judge people based on concepts like this imo. Namtab fucked around with this message at 21:26 on May 18, 2014 |
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May 18, 2014 21:21
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Lottery of Babylon posted:If you're so deeply invested in disliking kids that you actively identify as "The Childfree", as opposed to just saying "Eh, I'm not really interested in having kids" when someone else brings up the subject, then you're creepy and weird and should be mocked. Luckily, "The Childfree" have been mocked.
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May 18, 2014 21:42
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Anyone have that one quote from that one childfree thing? It was something to the effect of "I am a woman in Afghanistan, I am a Jew in Nazi Germany, I am a Childfree in a <something something whatever they call people with kids> world"?
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May 18, 2014 22:06
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Hammurabi posted:Anyone have that one quote from that one childfree thing? It was something to the effect of "I am a woman in Afghanistan, I am a Jew in Nazi Germany, I am a Childfree in a <something something whatever they call people with kids> world"? Every time this kind of thing comes up, I'm reminded of this video. Every time.
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May 18, 2014 22:17
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That takes me back. I can understand why some of the CF crowd got quite defensive - I remember some charmer wished clawhammer rape on us, and there was a lot of 'childfree women are just bitter because they're all ugly and fat and no-one will gently caress them' (oddly, the same sentiment was never directed at childfree men). But there were some extremist idiots who had a bit of a persecution complex and/or would throw a wobbler about being in the presence of a child. I admit I find kids hard to deal with - I have Aspergers Syndrome and screaming kids send me into meltdown - but I don't hate all parents. I've got a good few mates with kids and get on fine with them, and I love my little cousins and stepsiblings. I just don't want children myself. Calaveron - yep, there was an article about it on Tumblr. It's a bit sad how insecure some men are that they have to invent words like 'hegan'. Anyway, some content. Here's more from that ridiculous MPDG section. quote:Edie Sedgwick, a woman who hung around with Andy Warhol in his day, seems to have been this. She was anorexic and addicted to barbiturates. She eventually fell apart, went in and out of rehab a few times, and died of a drug overdose. Which tends to reinforce that this trope doesn't work very well in real life. quote:Deconstructed with Margaret Trudeau, former wife of Pierre Trudeau. While Pierre Trudeau was taken with the vivacious flower child, in reality Margaret was bipolar and her partying, drug use and rumoured affairs help put such a strain on their marriage that they were separated after six years. quote:Zelda Fitzgerald was this for her husband, F. Scott Fitzgerald. She was his muse and the inspiration for many of the heroines in his novels and short stories, and they lived the ideal Roaring Twenties lifestyle together, but she had a fragile grip on reality and eventually ended up in a mental institution. quote:How John Lennon perceived Yoko Ono. quote:A rare positive real life example was Grace Anna Goodhue, the wife of President Calvin Coolidge. Goodhue was described as being the exact opposite of the quiet and serious Coolidge and yet the marriage of the two was by all accounts happy. In his autobiography Coolidge wrote "We thought we were made for each other. For almost a quarter of a century she has borne with my infirmities, and I have rejoiced in her graces." And apparently Charlie Manson is a Manic Pixie Dream Guy. 
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May 18, 2014 22:32
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Afraid of Audio posted:I was straight edge in High School for like a year because I listened to a poo poo-ton of Minor Threat. I liked (ok, like) hardcore too, but it was always really weird meeting 15 year old, suburban "straight edgers", because how much booze, sex and drugs were they ever getting exposed to anyway?
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May 18, 2014 23:16
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I think we found the reason why assigning tropes to real people is a bad idea.
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May 18, 2014 23:16
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Hammurabi posted:Anyone have that one quote from that one childfree thing? It was something to the effect of "I am a woman in Afghanistan, I am a Jew in Nazi Germany, I am a Childfree in a <something something whatever they call people with kids> world"? A breeder world? I can't find the quote, though. These people also get really inventive with terms for children; from lurking LJ comms years ago I remember "crotch dropping," "flesh loaf," "sperm loaf," "gently caress trophy," and "shitling." I have no desire to have kids (even aside from my psychological issues which would probably make me a terrible mother) and these people are so secondhand-embarrassing.
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May 18, 2014 23:22
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SerialKilldeer posted:secondhand-embarrassing. This is a great term.
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May 18, 2014 23:30
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Namtab posted:E: Seems like this also relates to GBLT issues that I'm not really at all qualified to speak about (and in some cases, don't really understand). People should just try not to judge people based on concepts like this imo. I feel like this is just a good, general rule tbh. Judge people for who they are, not what they are. With the exception of bronies and furries, but that's okay they're nto real people anyway.
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May 19, 2014 01:02
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Cat Army 
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Little Blackfly posted:Like, the idea that normal men could be gay, which means you have to actively assert your masculinity to prove that you aren't a cryptogay who looks relatively normal on the outside. Which is dumb anyway, because Freddie Mercury.
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May 19, 2014 03:54
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SerialKilldeer posted:These people also get really inventive with terms for children; from lurking LJ comms years ago I remember "crotch dropping," "flesh loaf," "sperm loaf," "gently caress trophy," and "shitling." Inventive? Really? "Flesh loaf" and "sperm loaf" sound like slang terms for penis and "gently caress trophy" sounds like slang for "sleazy one-night stand who becomes your boyfriend or girlfriend, even though he or she is so not your type." I gotta stop reading Urban Dictionary.
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May 19, 2014 04:40
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Disco Pope posted:I liked (ok, like) hardcore too, but it was always really weird meeting 15 year old, suburban "straight edgers", because how much booze, sex and drugs were they ever getting exposed to anyway? I read this ages ago so I don't know how accurate it actually is, but apparently the whole straight edge thing was started by underage kids; they aren't allowed to drink at shows so they ended up developing this whole thing about how the people who are drinking are ruining it for them. It's why they get the X tattoos on their hands - it comes from the X they'll usually put on your hand at the door to tell the bartenders that you aren't allowed to drink (so they don't have to check people's IDs at the bar). It seems kind of ridiculous to claim that abstinence from drugs and alcohol is a lifestyle choice when the whole thing is based on not actually HAVING that choice, but then anyone who bases their identity around one very specific thing is crazy anyway. Also where did you grow up that 15 year olds weren't exposed to sex, booze and drugs?
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May 19, 2014 04:53
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Suddenly I understand CM Punk's gimmick way more. Thanks TvTropes thread!
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May 19, 2014 05:26
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I read this ages ago so I don't know how accurate it actually is, but apparently the whole straight edge thing was started by underage kids; they aren't allowed to drink at shows so they ended up developing this whole thing about how the people who are drinking are ruining it for them. It's why they get the X tattoos on their hands - it comes from the X they'll usually put on your hand at the door to tell the bartenders that you aren't allowed to drink (so they don't have to check people's IDs at the bar). Yeah, there's a rather popular joke that Straight Edgers are true until 21.
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May 19, 2014 05:35
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I read this ages ago so I don't know how accurate it actually is, but apparently the whole straight edge thing was started by underage kids; they aren't allowed to drink at shows so they ended up developing this whole thing about how the people who are drinking are ruining it for them. It's why they get the X tattoos on their hands - it comes from the X they'll usually put on your hand at the door to tell the bartenders that you aren't allowed to drink (so they don't have to check people's IDs at the bar). Straight edge started with the underage kids, but some of those kids were old enough to drink within less than a year of starting it, and their of-age buddies also joined in very quickly. Incidentally, the time it started was also the time that many states had recently lowered drinking ages (in the mid to late 70s) and just as quickly were starting to raise them again. So who was even underage to drink was fluctuating rather rapidly at the time, especially by the mid-80s.
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May 19, 2014 05:42
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Young Freud posted:Yeah, there's a rather popular joke that Straight Edgers are true until 21. How many straight edge kids does it take to finish a 6 pack? One, but only if no one's looking.
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May 19, 2014 05:44
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