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Dystram posted:Can anyone explain to me why LOLbertarians don't just identify as Republican? They are pretty much the exact same thing. Idunno, the right seems to think the same thing about socialists to democrats.
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May 19, 2014 19:37
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I want to be clear that I'm not trying to whitewash drone strikes, water boarding, US imperialism, or anything else. I just think that trying to compare drone strikes to something so obviously loaded as crucifixion in the way Brandor intends is stupid as hell.
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May 19, 2014 19:37
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Dystram posted:Can anyone explain to me why LOLbertarians don't just identify as Republican? They are pretty much the exact same thing.
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May 19, 2014 19:40
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tbp posted:I am socially libertarian. A friend of mine identifies as this as well as fiscally conservative. He's very much the real strawman view we have of those types. Raised on military bases, finally settling in the outer burbs of Philly. Tuition paid for by pops at st.joe's, gun loving, found god in his early thirties (because he let booze get out of control), thinks Christians are persecuted by the liberal media and gets into fights on Facebook about political stuff. I've considered buying him an account and feeding him to the lions here. 
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May 19, 2014 19:43
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JT Jag posted:lolbertarians are basically Republicans, except with weed and gold, as previously mentioned. Actual libertarians are further right than Republicans on economic policy, and about as far left as Democrats socially. But they are a dying breed. Youth conservative votes will likely steer more and more libertarian/socially liberal as the older, more religious-conservative generation dies off. I'd say in 20-30 years the "social" differences between the right and left parties will focus on guns and immigration rather than abortion, LGBTQXYZ rights and weed.
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May 19, 2014 19:45
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Amergin posted:LGBTQXYZ rights Xenosexual? YY-gendered? Zoosexual?
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May 19, 2014 19:48
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When we run out of social issues will the general populous finally move on to class issues or will the discourse devolve into the literal political-correctness gone mad that can be found now on the fringes?
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May 19, 2014 19:48
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Miltank posted:When we run out of social issues will the general populous finally move on to class issues or will the discourse devolve into the literal political-correctness gone mad that can be found now on the fringes? I for one can't wait to be part of the PC Gestapo executing people in the streets for not using someone's self-identified preferred pronoun.
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May 19, 2014 19:50
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JT Jag posted:lolbertarians are basically Republicans, except with weed and gold, as previously mentioned. Gold? How do lolbertarians and Republicans differ on that?
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May 19, 2014 19:51
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tbp posted:I am socially libertarian. I like chocolate ice cream.
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May 19, 2014 19:52
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Please stop saying "LOLbertarian", it makes you sound like an infant.
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May 19, 2014 19:53
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Mr Interweb posted:Gold? How do lolbertarians and Republicans differ on that? The average republican is unaware of the term fiat as it relates to money whereas the libertarian is able to parrot that it is bad. Unfortunately as no good arguments exist for a gold standard they have nothing to parrot and are forced to come up with dumb reasons as to why fiat money is bad.
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May 19, 2014 19:54
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Franco Potente posted:Please stop saying "LOLbertarian", it makes you sound like an infant. What are you, some kind of statist?
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May 19, 2014 19:55
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greatn posted:Instead of dropping bombs I think we should parachute in boomboxes, some playing Born to be Wild and some playing Highway to the Danger Zone. Stable democracies would form overnight. Thomas Friedman outs himself as a goon here. Remember, capitalism and consumer culture prevents war!
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May 19, 2014 19:55
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Raskolnikov38 posted:The average republican is unaware of the term fiat as it relates to money whereas the libertarian is able to parrot that it is bad. Unfortunately as no good arguments exist for a gold standard they have nothing to parrot and are forced to come up with dumb reasons as to why fiat money is bad. Fiat money is bad because it's created out of nothing and, similar to the Universe, You Cannot Create Something From Nothing. (but God can)
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May 19, 2014 19:55
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Fried Chicken posted:Thomas Friedman outs himself as a goon here. Remember, capitalism and consumer culture prevents war! It can't be him, there's no wisdom gleaned from a conversation with a random non-american person in that post!
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May 19, 2014 19:56
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Who What Now posted:I for one can't wait to be part of the PC Gestapo executing people in the streets for not using someone's self-identified preferred pronoun. It will be insanely fun to be a cranky old man filled with hate for trans-ethnics and poly-systems. "Grandpa you're being problematic!!"
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May 19, 2014 19:58
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To be fair though, they're right at least in part. A couple pages back Fishmech was blabbing about how in other countries self-defense was not considered a legitimate reason to purchase a firearm and how that should come to pass here as well. The problem with that is that the "wild west gun culture" hasn't just wormed its way into the American psyche, it's also embedded in our legal interpretations. A series of court cases have established that the police do not have a duty to protect you even against eminently forseeable threats or even to respond and you have absolutely no legal recourse. The second amendment is one of the few constitutionally guaranteed methods of protection and if it is removed then something needs to replace it. It's perfectly fine to acknowledge that we're living in a crazy wild-west world but for that to end there needs to be a sheriff in the town, we can't just replace it with wishing. Rich people, of course, can afford to hire bodyguards or private security contractors or whatever mercenaries are calling themselves nowadays. They will never really be impacted, just like how rich and connected people can still get concealed carry permits even in gun-free New York City. Poor people are the ones who will lose their protection, and they're also the ones the cops will be ignoring in the first place. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 20:31 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 20:02
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Miltank posted:When we run out of social issues will the general populous finally move on to class issues or will the discourse devolve into the literal political-correctness gone mad that can be found now on the fringes? Considering that racism, nationalism, sexism, religious bigotry, homophobia, etc are some of the rich's most potent weapons in class warfare, we can hope that class issues become easier to address once it's no longer okay to rabble-rouse about hard-earned tax dollars going to feed "those people" (you know the ones, the ones who were good Christians before emancipation gave them funny ideas.) This isn't to say we shouldn't push class issues now, but it's all a part of the same battle against oppression.
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May 19, 2014 20:03
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Raskolnikov38 posted:It means please pay attention to me so that I may derail the thread as I, tbp, oft do. Got to admit though, that's a hell of an ambiguous statement. I might steal that and use it in a group of idiots someday.
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May 19, 2014 20:07
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Fried Chicken posted:If you think the point of drone strikes is to instill terror in the surrounding populace instead of kill and destroy a specific target, you are way off in your own bubble and need to reconnect with how people really think. Yes, this is absolutely a goal of the drone strike campaign. To quote the White House Press Secretary on al-Alawki's son: quote:GIBBS: I would suggest that you should have a far more responsible father if they are truly concerned about the well being of their children. I don't think becoming an al Qaeda jihadist terrorist is the best way to go about doing your business. Seriously the man straight up said "if you're irresponsible enough to become a terrorist it's OK to murder your family". Drone strikes are openly a sword of damocles hanging over your families' heads. It may not be something that's quite made it into the State of the Union speeches yet but crowing about it at White House pressers isn't exactly being coy about it. Paul MaudDib fucked around with this message at 20:17 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 20:08
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I feel like the idea that social movements spring forth from a vacuum, slowly rise to relevance, are politically contentious for a few decades, get solved, and then get replaced with previously unheard of issues, rinse and repeat, is an overly simple way of understanding social progress. There aren't any mainstream politicians saying 'segregation now, segregation tomorrow, segregation forever', but that doesn't mean that racism, or indeed segregation under a different name, isn't still a problem in American society.
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May 19, 2014 20:10
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Paul MaudDib posted:Seriously the man straight up said "if you're irresponsible enough to become a terrorist we will murder your family". Drone strikes are openly a sword of damocles hanging over your families' heads. Thank you. I knew this quote was out there, but I've been on my phone and couldn't figure out how to word my google search. e:^ I didn't mean to suggest that any social issues will be permanently completely solved.
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May 19, 2014 20:11
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Jerry Manderbilt posted:Aren't a lot of "libertarians" very socially conservative, anyway (whether explicitly or whether they prioritize ARE ECONOMIC FREEDUMBS over socially liberal causes)? The ones I've bothered to ask seem to basically use it as signaling that gently caress You, Got Mine is just a little more important to them than making a transsexual interracial lesbian couple's lives as lovely as possible.
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May 19, 2014 20:14
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Paul MaudDib posted:http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2012/10/how-team-obama-justifies-the-killing-of-a-16-year-old-american/264028/ Okay, that is in fact pretty bad and something I'd expect to hear from a Republican.
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May 19, 2014 20:15
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Paul MaudDib posted:Yes, this is absolutely a goal of the drone strike campaign. To quote the White House Press Secretary on al-Alawki's son: Seriously the man straight up didn't, kid got killed when the terrorist leader he was next to got blown up. The man straight up said "If you're irresponsible enough to become a terrorist and associate your kid with terrorists its not loving shocking when he becomes collateral when we decide to splash a terrorist leader".
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May 19, 2014 20:17
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Well now, how old was the kid. Was he at least 15 and an Arab? If so, you'd better be able to prove he wasn't a terrorist before you get mad.
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May 19, 2014 20:23
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Who What Now posted:I for one can't wait to be part of the PC Gestapo executing people in the streets for not using someone's self-identified preferred pronoun. I for one love suede denim.
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May 19, 2014 20:23
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Jarmak posted:Seriously the man straight up didn't, kid got killed when the terrorist leader he was next to got blown up. The man straight up said "If you're irresponsible enough to become a terrorist and associate your kid with terrorists its not loving shocking when he becomes collateral when we decide to splash a terrorist leader". "Now I'm not threatening you or anything, just pointing out that if you are suspected of plotting against the US it shouldn't come as a surprise if you and your child are blown apart without warning in your home town." Miltank fucked around with this message at 20:28 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 20:25
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Jarmak posted:Seriously the man straight up didn't, kid got killed when the terrorist leader he was next to got blown up. The man straight up said "If you're irresponsible enough to become a terrorist and associate your kid with terrorists its not loving shocking when he becomes collateral when we decide to splash a terrorist leader".
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May 19, 2014 20:31
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If you're irresponsible enough to become a _______ and associate your kid with known _______ leaders its not loving shocking when he becomes collateral when we decide to splash a _______leader.
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May 19, 2014 20:34
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Paul MaudDib posted:Yes, this is absolutely a goal of the drone strike campaign. To quote the White House Press Secretary on al-Alawki's son: So a quote about "you shouldn't drag your children into your paramilitary to continue your war" is now "we want to scare the living poo poo out of everyone else there so they don't dare raise a hand against us"? We don't want them terrified of us. That is a bad thing. We want them to like us, to have a pro USA political bloc, to cheer us on. Having them terrified is actively sabotaging having that. This is a point that was hammered home constantly - that we were the "tip of the spear" striking military targets, but we had to be careful because we wanted to win hearts and minds. The assholes who scared them were the problem, in other branches the term was "strategic private", the low level dumb poo poo who would do something horrible and mass media meant the scary image was all over the place. This idea that we are there to terrorize for the sake of terrorizing to quell the populace rather than acting with limited force for specific strategic and tactical goals and then working our asses off to win over the populace is completely at odds with reality. If we are scaring them so they won't fight back, why are we using the method with the least excess casualties? Why are we downplaying and denying our involvement? Why are we spending billions to make them not afraid when we want them afraid? Get out of your bubbles, you sound like left wing Cliven Bundys, spouting conspiracy theories and your own special "read between the lines" like you get at WND
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May 19, 2014 20:35
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Miltank posted:"Now I'm not threatening you or anything, just pointing out that if you are suspected of plotting against the US it shouldn't come as a surprise if you and your child are blown apart without warning in your home town." At this point I shouldn't be surprised that you're just going to quote words and pretend they mean something completely different from that they actually out and out say.
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May 19, 2014 20:35
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Miltank posted:If you're irresponsible enough to become a _______ and associate your kid with known _______ leaders its not loving shocking when he becomes collateral when we decide to splash a _______leader. Yes and if you fill in the blank with anything we have a legitimate reason to kill it works just fine
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May 19, 2014 20:37
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edit: quoted the wrong personFried Chicken posted:If you think the point of drone strikes is to instill terror in the surrounding populace instead of kill and destroy a specific target, you are way off in your own bubble and need to reconnect with how people really think. Even in the case of "shock and awe" it was an ancillary goal rather than one that had any influence on prioritizing and choosing targets, and we made a point to hype and broadcast it, the opposite of what we are doing with drone strikes. Holy hell. Read this. Tell me how terrifying it is to have drones constantly hovering overhead. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/29/pakistan-family-drone-victim-testimony-congress quote:Zubair said that fear over the drone attacks on his community have stopped children playing outside, and stopped them attending the few schools that exist. An expensive operation, needed to take the shrapnel out of his leg, was delayed and he was sent back to the village until his father could raise the money, he said. quote:The hearing was attended by only five members of Congress, and Grayson said such low numbers of lawmakers at hearings were not unusual. Those attending were all Democrats: Rush Holt of New Jersey, Jan Schakowsky of Illinois, John Conyers of Michigan, Rick Nolan of Minnesota, and Grayson, the Florida Democrat responsible for inviting the family to Washington and for holding the hearing.
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May 19, 2014 20:38
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Oh my God I'm Cliven Bundy. It turns out...liberals really were the real terrorists all along  Next up: proof that liberals love Saddam!
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May 19, 2014 20:38
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anonumos posted:edit: quoted the wrong person someone please tell these children that they are missing the point
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May 19, 2014 20:39
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Miltank posted:If you're irresponsible enough to become a _______ and associate your kid with known _______ leaders its not loving shocking when he becomes collateral when we decide to splash a _______leader. Well I mean if he didn't want to get killed maybe he shouldn't have dressed like that.
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May 19, 2014 20:40
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The drone program in Pakistan is the US propping up the Pakistani government while providing a convenient scapegoat said government can use.
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May 19, 2014 20:41
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Jarmak posted:Yes and if you fill in the blank with anything we have a legitimate reason to kill it works just fine We don't have a legitimate reason to kill people just because the US has defined them as terrorists or militants or whatever. e: remember that there is no transparency whatsoever regarding who is placed on various terrorist lists and what reason.
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May 19, 2014 20:41
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