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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:That's not what he's saying though. He's saying "you're crazy guys, the GL specifically is totes gettable on Deity." And it's not. Most of the time it'll complete within 10 turns of you getting writing, if you beelined. It is occasionally possible. Like others said, the initial map settings influence your likelihood of snagging it. I'm with you, though. Most Deity games, it gets built between turn 32 and 40, almost impossible to beat unless you're Egypt, and you get 3 early policies (Aristocracy), extra pop, and free techs from ancient ruins. edit: new page, have an Austrian Swan 
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May 19, 2014 15:25
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Any of y'all give this a try yet? http://civ5.jaiiderherr.de/ Allegedly playable MP with mods.
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May 19, 2014 15:44
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I can't understand. WHen Brave New World came out, the option to play with mods was there. It was commented on. It disappeared, and I still don't know why.
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May 19, 2014 15:56
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Yeah I guess. I assume everyone plays on a standard size map. Edit: in my experience, the great library after turn 30 is a late great library.
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May 19, 2014 16:14
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Did an Immortal domination victory only game over the weekend. Man to AIs loving cheat like shameless bastards.
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May 19, 2014 16:21
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Doltos posted:Did an Immortal domination victory only game over the weekend. Domination on high difficulty always makes you feel like Genghis Khan reborn, though. A skeleton force of promoted troops versus waves of dumb enemy grunts, bring it on. Naval warfare underscores this especially. 3 subs, 3 battleships, a loaded carrier (at least 2 fighters) and 1 or 2 destroyers will take any navy the AI can possibly muster, and will handily take most coastal cities. Bonus points if your destroyers are upgraded Privateers. Free ships! dayman fucked around with this message at 16:40 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 16:38
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Bloodly posted:I can't understand. WHen Brave New World came out, the option to play with mods was there. It was commented on. It disappeared, and I still don't know why. From what I remember they were testing it to see if it worked, hosed up and left it in one patch, and patched it out soon after since it was broken.
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May 19, 2014 16:53
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An element of CiV multilayer that doesn't function correctly? Perish the thought.
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May 19, 2014 17:31
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Pvt.Scott posted:An element of CiV multilayer that doesn't function correctly? Perish the thought. Speaking of which, any of y'all get screwed over by the trade screen exploit in MP yet? Instigator sets up a trade with someone else and can manage to, successfully trade you for everything not nailed down. Anything that can be traded is at risk. 
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May 19, 2014 17:40
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Ulvirich posted:Speaking of which, any of y'all get screwed over by the trade screen exploit in MP yet? Instigator sets up a trade with someone else and can manage to, successfully trade you for everything not nailed down. Anything that can be traded is at risk. Yeah, what you do is a counter-proposal and then somehow you receive your own counter-proposal and approve it. It's not even an occasional bug, I think you can set that up any time you want. That kind of poo poo ought to be fixed right away but it's been around for months now.
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May 19, 2014 17:43
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Oh good lord. Started a new game... and hey! Lots of resources all around me! Always nice! Go east... oh, uh, hello Napoleon, I see you already have two cities. Goooood for you. Go south, run into Montezuma. Crap. Ok, so I'll just expand West since I saw saw some nice resources there and IS THAT ALEXANDER LAYING DOWN A SECOND CITY WHERE I WANTED TO? I restarted 
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May 19, 2014 17:43
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KKKlean Energy posted:Yeah, what you do is a counter-proposal and then somehow you receive your own counter-proposal and approve it. It's not even an occasional bug, I think you can set that up any time you want. That kind of poo poo ought to be fixed right away but it's been around for months now. I think you can avoid it with simultaneous turns by never ending your turn with an offer on the table.
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May 19, 2014 17:48
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dayman posted:Domination on high difficulty always makes you feel like Genghis Khan reborn, though. A skeleton force of promoted troops versus waves of dumb enemy grunts, bring it on. Naval warfare underscores this especially. 3 subs, 3 battleships, a loaded carrier (at least 2 fighters) and 1 or 2 destroyers will take any navy the AI can possibly muster, and will handily take most coastal cities. Bonus points if your destroyers are upgraded Privateers. Free ships! Which is great until you try to actually go on the offensive. I was Bismark and had a force of five archers positioned in one of my two cities (the only two I was able to settle and hold) for like three hundred turns. Then I tried to push out against Shaka with a flooding of Landschnekts that Shaka was deflecting like they were nothing while producing three more military guys every turn. Just ended up a huge slog fest where I could defend indefinitely but never venture out of my borders. Ended up losing when Wu Zeitan rolled in with a million bombers while I was still stuck on gatling guns.
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May 19, 2014 17:54
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For what it's worth I never had a war be worthwhile unless I was attacking someone who was already busy fighting somebody else. The AI's production bonuses are too strong, they can remake whatever you kill too fast for you to take cities. Pay them 20gpt to go fite someone then 2-3 turns later drop the hammer. Civilization 5 is a good game, I swear.
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May 19, 2014 18:01
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I decided to go for a cultural victory on my Japan game, since that's the only victory type I haven't done on immortal so far and I had a good amount of great works on hand and managed to get Sistine Chapel. I also built Uffizi, and am about to unlock Archeology with a high degree of certainty that I can get the Louvre before anyone else. Overall things are going pretty well, except for Brazil. They have a monstrous 10,000 accumulated culture, compared to everyone else's 3k-5k. They were on the rear end end of my archipelago maze and happened to have both of the culture city-states right in their backyard, presumably allied with them the entire game. They also don't have especially bad relations with the rest of the map, so I think it would be hard to build a sizable coalition against them. I'm working on gathering up enough gold to steal their CS allies. In the meantime, I'm trying to decide if it would be worth taking the diplomatic hit to capture Pedro's capital. I'm slightly ahead of them in tech, and I think that if I put my first wave of archeologists on hold long enough I can build a fleet of Frigates and privateers to catch him sleeping. Since the city is on a peninsula, I can bombard the city from both sides, then easily defend it from recapture the same way. On the other hand, I'm at the point where everyone else on the map likes me enough to be willing to give me open borders, and I'm worried that attacking Brazil will change that. I also worry that just taking his capital alone won't be enough to secure the win in the end, and I know for certain that wiping Brazil out entirely will get everyone pissed at me. For those who have decided to spread the joy of your art and music via the pointy end of the sword, how did you go about it? Did you find it better to completely take out the runaway cultural civ, or was just taking their capital enough to cripple them?
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May 19, 2014 18:12
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Basically you want to do either of two things to Brazil in that scenario: - Musician bomb them (remember that musician strength is dictated by when they were born, so turn older musicians into great works). If you can't get open borders to do it directly, either declare war or do indirect musician bombing with some other AI. - Obliterate them and remove them from the game entirely. Simply taking their capital won't do all that much. It'll slow their culture and tourism and increase your tourism, but it won't address the real problem which is their massive accumulated culture.
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May 19, 2014 18:21
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Doltos posted:Which is great until you try to actually go on the offensive. I was Bismark and had a force of five archers positioned in one of my two cities (the only two I was able to settle and hold) for like three hundred turns. Then I tried to push out against Shaka with a flooding of Landschnekts that Shaka was deflecting like they were nothing while producing three more military guys every turn. I guess I should qualify and say, you're not dominating until late game on deity. Upgraded advanced units approach and eventually exceed military force parity with AI's superior production. Aircraft is tricky on deity. Usually I'll be saving GS's in the hopes of popping them after research labs, but boy do they come in handy if your aggressor starts an air war and you can use them to beeline ballistics. The key to victory is really to turtle and pay off aggressive civs to war with others until you're comfortably ahead in tech. Then go on a murder fest. The troops you've used thusfar for defense will be heavily promoted and will serve as the backbone of your army. Shaka is kind of a special case. He's built for war so his troops are always heavily promoted and get buffs from the troop spam the AI does anyway. Avoid war with him at all costs. The one upside to him is that he will go to war with anyone at any time for a very reasonable price. Case in point was a game where I was Monty sharing something like a 20 tile border with Shaka. I paid him off all drat game in succession. As soon as he made peace, I had him after another neighbor. He never once declared war on me, and as thanks, I shoved a nuke up his rear end as I blasted off for the stars. That wasn't a domination victory but an example of how you can easily manipulate civs that would normally eat your for breakfast until you're ready. dayman fucked around with this message at 18:42 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 18:39
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:For what it's worth I never had a war be worthwhile unless I was attacking someone who was already busy fighting somebody else. True but the issue was that I set this to domination victory only to see what would happen. Wars were inevitable and frequent. I sent Shaka after Wu Zeitan for a bit then betrayed him. I was halfway through taking one of his 5 pop cities when 10+ units appeared out of no where and I hate to beat a hasty retreat.
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May 19, 2014 18:40
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Kerzoro posted:Oh good lord. Started a new game... and hey! Lots of resources all around me! Always nice! You fool! You'll never know the sweet taste of victoryquick defeat against three expansive warmongers. Destiny isn't mad you, it's just disappointed.
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May 19, 2014 19:37
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Kerzoro posted:Oh good lord. Started a new game... and hey! Lots of resources all around me! Always nice! I would've seen if you could've bribed them into fighting each other first. 
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May 19, 2014 19:39
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Vil posted:Simply taking their capital won't do all that much. It'll slow their culture and tourism and increase your tourism, but it won't address the real problem which is their massive accumulated culture. That's what I was afraid of. I might just go full steam ahead with Archeologist spam for now and see how it goes, and build up a fleet of battleships and nuke-filled carriers to bomb them into dust later on if music-bombing doesn't work out. On the subject of musicians, is it worth building the musician's guild early if it looks like you will be able to get Broadway, or am I better served saving them all for tourism-bombs?
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May 19, 2014 19:51
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I can't seem to attack coastal cities with my privateers, even though the game says that's their main purpose. What am I doing wrong?
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May 19, 2014 21:14
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Hatter106 posted:I can't seem to attack coastal cities with my privateers, even though the game says that's their main purpose. What am I doing wrong? What do you mean? They're melee units (and essentially Caravels 2.0 because Ironclads are garbage). Move them into the coastal city and they'll attack.
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May 19, 2014 21:18
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Can melee boats, specifically triremes, take cities?
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May 19, 2014 21:42
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They can, but it's a lot of work for them to do so.
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May 19, 2014 21:44
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If you want to take cities with Ancient boats, play Dido. With her quinqueremes you don't even have to take cities with her boats. You can just get the pillage upgrades from mashing some barb boats and do hit and runs on coastal cities for free gold, if that's more your style. Free Harbors from turn 1 is pretty great. I like Dido. E: building roads only you can use over mountain ranges is pretty great, too. Pvt.Scott fucked around with this message at 22:07 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 22:03
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So it's been a while since the last Steam game ended. I know there are a few GMR games going. Is that sating everyone's lust for Civ5, or should I go about setting up a MP game? I think I'd want 6 civs minimum for it to be fun.
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May 19, 2014 22:06
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I'm about to get knocked out of the current GMR game so I'd be up for joining another one. Edit: One of the best single-player games I played was Carthage on an archipelago map. Peas and Rice fucked around with this message at 22:16 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 22:08
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Haven't had too much luck with my realtime games so far, so I'd be up for whatever you're organizing.
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May 19, 2014 22:13
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Speedball posted:They can, but it's a lot of work for them to do so. I just want a trireme positioned off the coast to dash in and take a 0 health city in case the other player focus fires my melee units.
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May 19, 2014 22:14
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Putin It In Mah rear end posted:That's not what he's saying though. He's saying "you're crazy guys, the GL specifically is totes gettable on Deity." And it's not. Most of the time it'll complete within 10 turns of you getting writing, if you beelined. So I guess I'm just lying then when I say I've had reasonable success in getting it on standard size or below, something my girlfriend has experienced too? What do I have to gain from that? Hell she uses liberty builds and will still get it with the right start, so it doesn't even have to be 'optimal' strictly speaking. If you can squeeze it out before turn 24 on quick, with a bit more leeway on standard, it's absolutely possible. Likely? That's a different story entirely- there's a lot of RNG involved- how many civs you're competing against, and the chances that one is an rear end in a top hat wonder hog. I won't bother unless I have some woods to chop down and am lucky enough to pop a good ruin or two. Two forests, some hills, a pop ruin, and a culture ruin? You better believe I'm making an attempt, even on higher difficulties some of the time. I still have to respectfully disagree with the consensus that utilizing religion as a strategy requires sub optimal play. My aforementioned Korean religion (+25% growth, 15% production, and tithe) and Byzantium culture win using faith buildings are two great examples of the power of religion. Tithe, with a good spread, can make a diplomatic victory absolutely trivial as well. I still concur that wide is almost always sub optimal though. Almost. PoizenJam fucked around with this message at 23:34 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 22:57
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Considering I see the GL gone on turn 25 on standard, I don't know, maybe you're just articulating your point poorly? Are you saying that you can try for the Great Library and 9 times out of 10 miss it and still have a chance of recovering from that? If so, I agree with you, but I don't see why you would do that. The GL isn't that useful if you can't use it to slingshot to at last philosophy, anyway. Theology is better. And no one is saying you can't found a religion. What people are arguing is you can't load up a game and go "I'm going to get a religion, no matter what." The hand the game deals you with respect to religion is make-or-break on Deity. If you can't found a faith-based pantheon reasonably quickly, you're not going to get a religion, 9 times out of 10. That's why Byzantium is considered the absolute hands-down worst Civ on Deity. It's great that you enjoy the 1 time in 10 that one of those two things will work for you and just wrecking yourself pointlessly the other 9 games, but that's not useful advice to anyone who's trying to get better at the game. The 1 game in 99 where both of those work out must be really great, though.
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May 19, 2014 23:59
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I already said I don't reroll unless it's a truly abysmal start- Venice inland for instance. I'm not a newbie to this game. I've got over a thousand hours logged and can win on emperor with over 90% certainty and immortal with slightly less. I play with humans at least half of the time, usually in a mixed AI/human match. I'm not saying GL is a smart move or one you can count on- and I'm also not suggesting it doesn't require a great start. I'm saying, under ideal conditions, with a bit of luck thrown in, it's possible, even on deity. It is not categorically impossible to get and there are conditions under which it may be smart. I think turn 25 on standard speed is a bit of a stretch- I usually see it pop on turn 23 or 24 on quick, so that seems unusual. With the kind of start I mentioned in the last post, I can count on getting the GL on immortal more than half the time, and about 1/4 on deity, even with unknown fudge factors like your opponent happening to be Egypt thrown in. Wonders are not an ideal strategy- and I concur they're even more risky on higher difficulties and hardly worth it- I merely mean to say there are conditions in which it's viable. For the record I play small map size most often- the chances of the planets aligning for such an attempt to be viable on standard map size or above are astronomical simply given the chances at least one of the AI beat you to it. If you need proof of concept, try save scumming it- with some serious min maxing, luck, and manual population management you can get the GL even on deity. I just hope someone doesn't willfully misinterpret this once again as my saying it's a preferable or optimal strategy. It's not. It's simply possible, even competing against deity AI going for the GL. Except Egypt. If they're in the game kiss it goodbye. Honestly I believed it was categorically impossible too until my girlfriend managed it after playing a few dozen deity attempts, then managed to find a strategy that worked with reasonable success. She was re rolling at the time, but not save scumming, just trying to get the achievement... But now she can throw down the GL faster than I ever imagined possible. I don't even bother when playing a against her anymore and I consider myself to have mostly mastered the game. As for religion- Stonehenge virtually guarantees one and so does finding a faith natural wonder. I might not bother on deity, but on anything less it's never hurt my endgame. It's usually been a great boon and I can count on two hands the number of times I've played a hard religion focus and not got a religion. It's a pretty front loaded strategy though so I can see passing over religion if you feel you're going to be the last one to the party. PoizenJam fucked around with this message at 00:35 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 00:19
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The one and only time I’ve gotten the Great Library on Deity is when I played Spain, popped a Pottery ruin, found King Solomon’s Mines, bought a settler with the UA cash, planted it right on top of the wonder, and started building immediately. Even then, I reloaded an earlier save to see how close the AI was, and it was two turns from beating me. Another way of looking at it is that I won merely because the human’s turn comes first. Not that I try for the Great Library often, but that’s really the kind of thing it takes to get it on Deity. Getting lucky with bonus resources and chopping several forests is good enough for Stonehenge, but the Great Library is in a league of its own. Peas and Rice posted:I'm about to get knocked out of the current GMR game so I'd be up for joining another one. There’s a game ready to go that will have enough players if you join it. Invite links are on the GoonCiv discussion page.
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May 20, 2014 00:31
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Dido and William are probably my favorite stock Civs to play as. I feel unclean building non-coastal cities, and polders are so darn pretty. 
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May 20, 2014 00:40
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dayman posted:It is occasionally possible. Like others said, the initial map settings influence your likelihood of snagging it. I'm with you, though. Most Deity games, it gets built between turn 32 and 40, almost impossible to beat unless you're Egypt, and you get 3 early policies (Aristocracy), extra pop, and free techs from ancient ruins. I wish I had a save/screenshot of the time I played Brazil and started on a peninsula shaped exactly like a parrot perched on top of the rest on the continent, with my capitol as it's eye. I bought up tiles just to fill it out completely with green on the mini map.
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May 20, 2014 01:00
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Hatter106 posted:I can't seem to attack coastal cities with my privateers, even though the game says that's their main purpose. What am I doing wrong? You probably need a free tile directly adjacent to the city. So if the city is blocked off by other ships, your melee unit can't attack it. Move one of those ranged ships out of the way, put your privateer next the city, and then attack it.
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May 20, 2014 01:12
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Ulvirich posted:Any of y'all give this a try yet? I can't believe I missed this post as it's incredibly exciting and will likely revitalize my interest in my game. As long as scenarios are playable in MP with the same method anyway!
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May 20, 2014 01:13
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I was thinking about how I was actually sad they didn't try to milk us more by putting out more DLC civs. There's a huge variety in Civ5, but there still room for more. Dammit, I just want to see a offical Canadian civ in a game. Also, Kingdom of Italy, Scotland, Ireland, Mogul (or other pre unification India civ) or a Pacific Northwest First nations like the Heida. With moving to prince, I do try to get GL if conditions are right, like my capital is productive enough to pump it out fast enough and I have my second city build. Rarely does that happen thought. I can usually snag the Oracle, because the AI never seems to try for it early. Thing about wonders is if you don't finish it, that's wasted turns you could have used to pump out a unit or a worker or a settler or a building. Earlier games you got the production back, but in 5 you just get money, and really, you shouldn't need money. I find I rarely have money issues unless I'm in a bidding war over CS against Alexander. I find trade ships are way more effective for making bank than caravans. Do ships count towards your military score? I have like 20 ships and only a handful of land units because its an archipelago, but I'm really low on the military ratings.
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May 20, 2014 06:25
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Military ships count, yes. A large navy like that ought to have you reasonably well off in the rankings unless you've out-teched your navy and haven't upgraded it yet.
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May 20, 2014 06:33
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