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I always got the impression that Kalam was on the more human side of the power spectrum, albeit near the top, whereas Laseen is (Return spoilers) killing Avowed with her bare hands plus all the stuff the other Old Guard went through, which predated Kalam's recruitment.
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May 19, 2014 23:17
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Illuyankas posted:I always got the impression that Kalam was on the more human side of the power spectrum, albeit near the top, whereas Laseen is (Return spoilers) killing Avowed with her bare hands plus all the stuff the other Old Guard went through, which predated Kalam's recruitment. She was a mage, so in most situations she'd probably be more potent than Kalam - it would just be neutralized in a fight against him. As for that Avoewd - it sort of helped that, IIRC, he was already severely wounded and crippled, and when she disabled him further asked her to finish him. Meanwhile, Kalam single-handedly takes out an enkar'al. I don't know. I think in a hand-to-hand fight, Kalam'd be a slight favorite. If her Warren is in play, all bets are off.
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May 19, 2014 23:52
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I mean, Laseen flatout refused to be in the same room as him up until she got desperate.
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May 19, 2014 23:53
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Then it was "Here have whatever you want, lets just be friends"
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May 20, 2014 00:06
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Been reading through the series for the first time. Just finished Reaper's Gale. I can't believe people actually think GRRM killing his characters has any meaning. I didn't give a poo poo about the red wedding. But God drat Reaper's Gale was grim. Toc and Trull both dying was so upsetting. Not to mention how incredibly dark Erikson's writing is at times. The scenes with Janath were particularly horrific. Having said that, I thoroughly enjoyed the book (and the series up to it). Erkison is an absolute master at writing. I am always impressed at everything he manages to do. I felt upset when Joyful Union was crushed (RIP), and it was 'just' a scorpion... Then you have things that are built up over several books, and the final pay off is spectacular (Icarium unleashing at the Throne for example). Looking forward to the last 3 books, and an eventually re-read of the series. Smellem Sexbad fucked around with this message at 02:01 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 01:35
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Smellem Sexbad posted:Been reading through the series for the first time. I suggest a heavy duty diaper. e: fyi you may want to fix your spoiler tags
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May 20, 2014 01:49
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Smellem Sexbad posted:Been reading through the series for the first time. Don't forget Beak 
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May 20, 2014 02:48
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Safety Factor posted:Don't forget Beak I'd forgot 
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May 20, 2014 03:05
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Safety Factor posted:Don't forget Beak Don't mention him
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May 20, 2014 04:32
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Safety Factor posted:Don't forget Beak Oh man he was one of my favorites
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May 20, 2014 05:08
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All aboard the train of tears
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May 20, 2014 05:23
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TryAgainBragg posted:All aboard the train of tears I think you mean the Chain of Tears
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May 20, 2014 05:44
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Habibi posted:I think you mean the That literally should be the title instead, that book made me feel uncomfortable/awkward things in public places (CALLING ALL JOKES!!)
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May 20, 2014 05:52
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Hey guys, I recently got back into these, finally picking up Memories of Ice and now I'm 3/4 through House of Chains. The OP isn't kidding when it mentions that the writing gets substantially better with every book. Book three almost feels like what the first book wanted to be, and it actually made me kinda like Ganoes Paran, whose inability to command and bitchy attitude actually seemed endearing this time around. I also felt like I had a better sense of what was happening and the gravity of the situation, so when the city was under siege, or Silverfox was loving over the T'lan Imass and then getting it turned around on her, or Itkovian was doing anything I could feel the weight of it. The one bit I didn't really feel was Toc the Younger's plotline. When he abandons his team of unstoppable badasses to join up with the Pannion's peasant army, I assumed it was to show how events were unfolding behind enemy lines, but after like half a chapter of that he immediately gets found out and tortured until the end of the book. Worse, he kills himself at the end and is immediately given a new body, completely undercutting the finality(?) of Whiskeyjack's death. Hey buddy, someone a lot more important than you could've used that body. Still, I like how it left things and am especially curious where they're going to go with bits like Quick Ben's promotion, whatever resurrection scenario happened to Tool, or if the retired Bridgeburners get back into it. As for the fourth book, it is so good. Karsa's entire sequence is amazing, and if anything I wish it was longer, because I just want more time to explore the situation with both the Malazans and Felisin's crew. The only story that seems disconnected is Cutter and Apsalar's, probably because they're off loving about on the other side of the world. It almost feels like their plotline was tacked on so all the character groups stay cleanly divided between books. Like I said though, I still have a ways left to go (just got to the bit with Leoman's entourage getting into a scrape with Fiddler's squad) so I might be presuming too much. Tell me it gets even better after this, and I'm not facing a GRRM-style early peak. Wolfsheim fucked around with this message at 09:37 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 09:34
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You don't have much to worry about I think. Midnight Tides introduces another section of the world and the best characters in the series. I definitely think his writing got better and better as the story progressed. Bonehunters picks up where House of Chains ended.
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May 20, 2014 10:34
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Just started memories of ice, first two books have been up and down for me. Really liked Kruppe, crazy wooden puppets and the chain of dogs. Found the various Gods' motivations, the warrens, various races, and several characters with complicated identities really hard to follow. I also think that Eriksen loves a few of his characters a bit much (Kallam was noted as lacking finesse in the first book, overcoming that shortcoming with strength, in the next book he murders half the claw and mentioned as being a possible rival to their best, although whether this was deliberate flattery is unclear), but that's a common problem with high fantasy so whatever. Going to keep with it though. Some of the characters are really good, the writing improves markedly, there is loads of detail and interesting crossover of sub plots, things tend to get explainted eventually and Tool is cool. One query, how did Lasseen manage to ge the Wickan's support in the first place? Never worked out quite why they bothered. Zalakwe fucked around with this message at 13:15 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 13:12
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Zalakwe posted:Just started memories of ice, first two books have been up and down for me. Really liked Kruppe, crazy wooden puppets and the chain of dogs. Found the various Gods' motivations, the warrens, various races, and several characters with complicated identities really hard to follow. I also think that Eriksen loves a few of his characters a bit much (Kallam was noted as lacking finesse in the first book, overcoming that shortcoming with strength, in the next book he murders half the claw and mentioned as being a possible rival to their best, although whether this was deliberate flattery is unclear), but that's a common problem with high fantasy so whatever. She didn't. Kellanved did. She inherited them. A few minor things (and like major thing) get stingray retconned from the first book, as it preceded the others by a decade.
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May 20, 2014 14:55
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First off, thanks for the thread, I wouldn't have known this existed otherwise. I'm partway through the first book, and it's definitely interesting and I'll probably finish the series either way. But does the writing get better? I think the most annoying thing he does is say "this character x seemed to be this way" "character x says something confirming that they are that way" "character y remarks to themselves 'character x is that way'". Followed by, "character x smiles" "character y says a thing" "character x's smile vanishes". Although I like the complexity of the book, and the scale of the worldbuilding, his writing seems kind of amateur. The characterization especially, though interesting, gets a little hamhanded and hyperbolic (characters feel "profound connections" and small events "change them.... forever" all the drat time). Motivations seem unreasonable and relationships between the characters feel kind of hollow. All that said, there's so much ambition and potential here that I can't help but keep reading. I'm a sucker for this kind of book. Last off, please tell me this Paran guy dies off.
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May 21, 2014 01:16
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foutre posted:
*chuckles*
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May 21, 2014 01:19
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foutre posted:All that said, there's so much ambition and potential here that I can't help but keep reading. I'm a sucker for this kind of book. Four posts above this one: Wolfsheim posted:The OP isn't kidding when it mentions that the writing gets substantially better with every book. The first book was written a decade before the other ones. Book 2 is a pretty big step up and they get better from there. Keep on trucking, it's worth it.
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May 21, 2014 03:33
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foutre posted:Although I like the complexity of the book, and the scale of the worldbuilding, his writing seems kind of amateur. The characterization especially, though interesting, gets a little hamhanded and hyperbolic (characters feel "profound connections" and small events "change them.... forever" all the drat time). Motivations seem unreasonable and relationships between the characters feel kind of hollow.
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May 21, 2014 03:41
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^^^ I'm a long ways from that, but I'll keep it in mind!NmareBfly posted:Four posts above this one. I'm really dumb. I'll look forward to book two then. TryAgainBragg posted:*chuckles* Oh no.
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May 21, 2014 08:56
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I can assure you 100% that Paran is not present in Forge of Darkness.
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May 21, 2014 09:10
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Well that's not encouraging. I guess I'll learn to live with him. I'm one day into reading this series and I just finished the first book. Thank god school's over -- I'm excited to see what the second one's like.
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May 21, 2014 10:42
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foutre posted:Well that's not encouraging. I guess I'll learn to live with him. A huge improvement over an already strong beginning. Also: Paran gets a lot better.
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May 21, 2014 14:43
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Safety Factor posted:Don't forget Beak He will always have a candle burning in my heart.
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May 21, 2014 15:27
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Just finished my re-read, drat the end of The Crippled God is en emotional rollercoaster. Stormy dying to take down Sin, Gesler dying to protect Bent and Bent's loyalty to him, the marine and regulars last stand, Korlat's reunion with Whiskeyjack and the events preceding it (though that sometimes felt tacked on it still somehow elicited strong emotion from me), and finally Tavore's words and reaction to seeing Ganos again At least Fiddler got to retire and relax
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May 21, 2014 16:02
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Levitate posted:Just finished my re-read, drat the end of The Crippled God is en emotional rollercoaster. Time for FoD!
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May 21, 2014 18:24
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If you did have a rough time with the earlier books, I'd say Midnight Tides is pretty great due to the fact that it's a relatively self-contained story with a whole new cast of cool characters. The introductions to the settings and characters are better as well.
amuayse fucked around with this message at 19:57 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 19:50
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And it has Bugg, ol' lovable Bugg 
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May 21, 2014 20:07
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Pff. Just go right into Deadhouse Gates. If you dislike that, quit the series because it is not for you.
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May 21, 2014 20:36
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Khizan posted:Pff. Just go right into Deadhouse Gates. If you dislike that, quit the series because it is not for you. I would never recommend skipping Gardens, and I still think it's a great book a little roughly written (still better than most fantasy writing). But yeah, if you don't like DHG, just quit. It's not the best book in the series, but it's still loving good and features some of the more memorable scenes and pieces and the introduction of some of the best characters.
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May 21, 2014 20:46
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amuayse posted:If you did have a rough time with the earlier books, I'd say Midnight Tides is pretty great due to the fact that it's a relatively self-contained story with a whole new cast of cool characters. The introductions to the settings and characters are better as well. I thinks it's kinda slow but I still like it more than house of chains. Tehol and Bugg definitely help!
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May 21, 2014 21:31
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It's probably been mentioned before but if you like to read a book where lots of disparate events are mentioned without any connections explicitly mentioned binding them together this series is for you. Pretty sure this has been mentioned before but I loved this little connection: When the Tiste Edur shows up in one book drowned and apparently crushed as if forced deep underwater. Later on you see Bugg send that Tiste Edur to his home - the deep seas - after he kills an old man and nearly kills Tehol. I was extremely excited since I immediately got the connection. This might have to do with my reading speed and getting into the series rather late. This series definitely has a niche, and it just happens to be perfect for me.
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May 21, 2014 22:38
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No Pants posted:It's not like no one has any clue. There's a short bit near the beginning where Tattersail and some of the Bridgeburners talk about how it was totally weird that the two new rulers of Shadow appeared right after the Emperor and Dancer died. This is still spoilery stuff: If I'm not mistaken, Kellanved and Dancer "disappeared" long before the apparent death In Malaz City. In fact Laseen decided to go for the throne because Kellanved had basically left it unattended. With their attention "elsewhere", Laseen had enough time to work with her Claw and seize the power. So, most of everyone in the series really couldn't have any clue. What sets off (in Shadow, since you don't ever see it, if not in Esslemont companion book) the Malazan as a series is the unprecedented event of two human guys stepping in the pantheon. That's why GOTM opens with the day before that day. What you (don't) see is the starting point. Shadow/Light/Darkness being a theme. "Shadow" is about all those events that shape things, but that you don't see directly, the manipulations behind the scenes of the two new gods. "Light" is actually the meat of the books (because the act of writing is about selectively giving light to particulars that make a story), the story of those characters caught between gods like between anvil and hammer, and the Malazan Empire itself and its role in the shaping of history. And "Darkness" is the mysterious past, the current trilogy Erikson is writing. Abalieno fucked around with this message at 05:11 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 05:05
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Habibi posted:I would never recommend skipping Gardens, and I still think it's a great book a little roughly written (still better than most fantasy writing). But yeah, if you don't like DHG, just quit. It's not the best book in the series, but it's still loving good and features some of the more memorable scenes and pieces and the introduction of some of the best characters. I recommend just hammering through Gardens without going in-depth. Later, after you've read more of the series, go back and read it again. I also sometimes recommend going Gardens of the Moon(#1) -> Memories of Ice(#3) -> Deadhouse Gates(#2). That's the order I went in, after going "wtf, no Whiskeyjack and company, this is bullshit" when I started DHG. After MoI blew me the gently caress away("Kallor Eiderann Tes'thesula, one voice, has spoken three curses. Thus."), I was a lot more willing to go back and read about the new character cast in DHG.
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May 22, 2014 05:21
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That part really was pretty fantastic Kallor: "gently caress me? gently caress You!"
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May 22, 2014 05:45
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Khizan posted:I recommend just hammering through Gardens without going in-depth. Later, after you've read more of the series, go back and read it again. quote:I also sometimes recommend going Gardens of the Moon(#1) -> Memories of Ice(#3) -> Deadhouse Gates(#2). That's the order I went in, after going "wtf, no Whiskeyjack and company, this is bullshit" when I started DHG. After MoI blew me the gently caress away("Kallor Eiderann Tes'thesula, one voice, has spoken three curses. Thus."), I was a lot more willing to go back and read about the new character cast in DHG.
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May 22, 2014 05:47
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Abalieno posted:This is still spoilery stuff: I guess that's generally right, but I was referring to Chapter 4, Scene 1, where it's pretty clear that some characters had a good idea about what was up.
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May 22, 2014 05:54
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TryAgainBragg posted:Kallor: "gently caress me? gently caress You!" It was ever thus.
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May 22, 2014 05:58
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