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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Kinda curious on why you waited until today to do so, Plague. Because I'm lazy. (And actually I posted something in the G+ Exalted community earlier in the week, where I expected more enthusiasm than I got.) quote:Also why you pledged that much? "Because I loved the game and my name was going to be in it" seems like a good reason even now that I don't want it. If I'd had the money, I would now be trying to offload two "normal" deluxes and one of the metal-backed cover books. Thankfully my wallet isn't as full of love as my heart.
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May 18, 2014 06:09
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This is Ferrinus's chance to immortalize Brawler Marshal Arts. Do it.
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May 18, 2014 06:15
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:This is Ferrinus's chance to immortalize Brawler Marshal Arts. Do it.
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May 18, 2014 06:30
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Kinda curious on why you waited until today to do so, Plague. Also why you pledged that much? Mors had some choice works about Exalted 3rd Edition that will prove hope is dead.
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May 18, 2014 06:56
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Plague of Hats posted:Here is a place where you can pay lots of money to make me tell Rich Thomas to put the name "Poopsucker" in the EX3 core, and also I guess you would get a fancy leatherette-bound version of said book (plus some extra stuff). Can we make that official? I want Poopsucker to be a canon Dawn. I want stats for Poopsucker. I want Poopsucker to appear in an official, full-color comic publication of Exalted 3e.
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May 18, 2014 07:40
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NutritiousSnack posted:Mors had some choice works about Exalted 3rd Edition that will prove hope is dead. Don't insult my friend Mors Rattus like that.
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May 18, 2014 20:00
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According to an update on Mørke's second GoFundMe they have started work on the second book.
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May 19, 2014 20:54
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Bigup DJ posted:This reading makes the mistake of assuming that woken Autocthon's (The State's) judgement and foresight are perfect. It ignores the fact that the implementation of any plan of that scale necessitates the violent suppression of dissent. All power, state or corporate, should be met with suspicion - don't forget the Chapter 5 comic, featuring your hero of the vanguard gassing protestors! The fact that this movement of the workers (the speaker bears a flaming wrench) and the common man (all genders) is violently suppressed gives lie to the fact that the state is not our friend. As with all structures of power, the state's number one priority is its own survival - when push comes to shove, the state's agents are the enemy of the common man. Your very first sentence is wrong, though? You don't need Autocthon (The State) to have perfect judgement and foresight. You just need it to have... some. Dammitwho's point is that it's the task of the alchemicals to transform Autocthon from a system solely devoted to propagating itself (which sometimes, as a byproduct, causes some humans to remain alive) into a system dedicated to human flourishing. In general, the question in Exalted is never "are we smart and/or powerful enough to do this" (we pretty much always are), it's "is the thing we want to do, itself, a good idea". But then you'd have to be perfect!!!-style hyperbole is absurd. It's not about ceding power to Autocthon and expecting him to act in our best interests (he clearly never has), it's about taking power over Autocthon and wielding him to humanity's benefit. I'm not sure what response your second to last sentence there is supposed to get besides "piss off, mate". Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 23:52 on May 19, 2014 |
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May 19, 2014 23:49
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Ferrinus posted:Your very first sentence is wrong, though? You don't need Autocthon (The State) to have perfect judgement and foresight. You just need it to have... some. Dammitwho's point is that it's the task of the alchemicals to transform Autocthon from a system solely devoted to propagating itself (which sometimes, as a byproduct, causes some humans to remain alive) into a system dedicated to human flourishing. In general, the question in Exalted is never "are we smart and/or powerful enough to do this" (we pretty much always are), it's "is the thing we want to do, itself, a good idea". But then you'd have to be perfect!!!-style hyperbole is absurd. It's not about ceding power to Autocthon and expecting him to act in our best interests (he clearly never has), it's about taking power over Autocthon and wielding him to humanity's benefit. Are we promoting the enslavement of a sentient entity for your own well being vs relinquishing them to be a free agent? As you mentioned before, he has never acted directly toward humanity's benefit, but he also has not actively pursued its demise like his kin, by and large, have -- including Gaia (remember, she had to quell the dragons to sleep because they were making GBS threads things up so badly.) We don't really know what his stance or feelings are on anything because his written existence while being active was Primordial War -> Exodus, thanks to the Exalted. So even then we can't pretend to guess at his intent because all we've seen so far is 'survival'. edit: thinking on this more, this also ignores the entire premise of the Adamant Caste to serve as a hidden knife at the throat of the Alchemical host if they so much as try to subvert their patron. And they answer to the Divine Ministers, not the Eight Nations. Strength of Many fucked around with this message at 00:08 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 00:03
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I have to say your new title text is a distinct improvement over links to anime child porn pictures.
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May 20, 2014 00:13
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Kai Tave posted:I have to say your new title text is a distinct improvement over links to anime child porn pictures. I concur. Though I don't know if this, too, was someone ponying up to change it or a mod. Either way i'll wear it like an obnoxious badge of honor. edit: thought I would repost a friend's thoughts on all this Alchemical's discussion because he can't afford an account; quote:[16:19] <---> 'As with all structures of power, the state's number one priority is its own survival - when push comes to shove, the state's agents are the enemy of the common man.' Strength of Many fucked around with this message at 00:44 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 00:20
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Strength of Many posted:Are we promoting the enslavement of a sentient entity for your own well being vs relinquishing them to be a free agent? As you mentioned before, he has never acted directly toward humanity's benefit, but he also has not actively pursued its demise like his kin, by and large, have -- including Gaia (remember, she had to quell the dragons to sleep because they were making GBS threads things up so badly.) We don't really know what his stance or feelings are on anything because his written existence while being active was Primordial War -> Exodus, thanks to the Exalted. So even then we can't pretend to guess at his intent because all we've seen so far is 'survival'. I disagree with the thrust of Bigup DJ's post on the last page, but his description of how Autocthon made himself into a nation-state is spot-on. Once you've been abducted by and processed into a vast and impersonal economic system that pretty much uses you as fodder it doesn't really make sense to you to sit there and wring your hands about how capitalism would feel if you did something about it. The ideal, of course, is that Autocthon wakes up, you explain the situation to him, and he's like "oh gosh you're totally right, I'll work with you to fix that".
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May 20, 2014 00:26
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Ponying up? I blame Stallion Cabana.
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May 20, 2014 00:27
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Ferrinus posted:I disagree with the thrust of Bigup DJ's post on the last page, but his description of how Autocthon made himself into a nation-state is spot-on. Once you've been abducted by and processed into a vast and impersonal economic system that pretty much uses you as fodder it doesn't really make sense to you to sit there and wring your hands about how capitalism would feel if you did something about it. Same. I think you'd get very far simply by waking him up and reaching agreements, compromises, and maybe an earnest apology or two.
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May 20, 2014 00:28
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Seems to me like Autochthon is a Primordial, who like all the other Primordials should be defeated utterly and brought to heel for the good of all reality...? Am I crazy. Am the the ONLY one who sees this.
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May 20, 2014 00:31
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Attorney at Funk posted:Seems to me like Autochthon is a Primordial, who like all the other Primordials should be defeated utterly and brought to heel for the good of all reality...? Am I crazy. Am the the ONLY one who sees this. My personal opinion about non-human entities in Exalted is to leave them alone unless they gently caress with you directly. I'd also like, not trust humanity itself, because we aren't so great even in a setting where magical kung fu and spiritual enlightenment a very literal things. Actually, that probably would make us a Lot Worse.
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May 20, 2014 00:34
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Attorney at Funk posted:Seems to me like Autochthon is a Primordial, who like all the other Primordials should be defeated utterly and brought to heel for the good of all reality...? Am I crazy. Am the the ONLY one who sees this. I think the lesson here is that the writers should not push people too hard to take a splat in one specific campaign direction, because if they do not, the different options people will create about how that splat should save and/or screw over the world will be quite diverse and excellent. But an apostate campaign where all the players believe the old methods are doomed in the face of limited resources and declining productivity would be awesome. Seek to seize the Core and retool everything to run on souls and dark biotech over conquering Creation or trying to simply retool the old methods of production and organization. Call it an Accelerationist campaign; The ultimate manifestation of Gremlinism will save Autocthonia from Gremlinism.
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May 20, 2014 00:37
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:I think the lesson here is that the writers should not push people too hard to take a splat in one specific campaign direction, because if they do not, the different options people will create about how that splat should save and/or screw over the world will be quite diverse and excellent. Gremlinism in 2e is 'psychopathic baby eating murder robots' though. I don't think that helps anyone at all.
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May 20, 2014 00:38
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Strength of Many posted:Gremlinism in 2e is 'psychopathic baby eating murder robots' though. I don't think they helps anyone at all. Wasn't literally everything in 2e some combination of psychopathic, baby-eating, or a robot?
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May 20, 2014 00:39
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Attorney at Funk posted:Wasn't literally everything in 2e some combination of psychopathic, baby-eating, or a robot? Yes. Yes it was. I liked rogue Alchemicals better in Autocthonians, as they were more traitors to the state and a danger simply because upsetting the order preserved was catastrophic on its own. They didn't need their own Abyssal equivalents running around to make the situation feel any more dire. Well that and in general a selfish abandonment of your own people you were built to protect, serve and uplift in favor of personal enterprise. Which is, arguably, more monstrous and scummy than being a black painted baby eater killbot.
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May 20, 2014 00:40
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Strength of Many posted:Gremlinism in 2e is 'psychopathic baby eating murder robots' though. I don't think that helps anyone at all. One of the biggest problems with 2e is that most everything was characterized with less nuance than Dragonball Z. If I were writing Alchemicals 3e, I would say that stuff from the 2e book was Tripartite propaganda because Gremlinism being a thing with complicated implications and interesting potential uses would make it superior for use in a game. That said, my preference is never to use purely black-and-white one-dimensional opposition in any form of media. I also think morally unambiguous campaigns get boring pretty fast.
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May 20, 2014 00:47
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Attorney at Funk posted:Ponying up? I blame Stallion Cabana. I'm a soon-to-be grad student. I'm too poor to pay for avatar changes, even to get rid of pedoshit.
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May 20, 2014 02:46
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Stallion Cabana posted:I'm a soon-to-be grad student. I'm too poor to pay for avatar changes, even to get rid of pedoshit. Your name, dude. 
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May 20, 2014 03:02
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Attorney at Funk posted:Seems to me like Autochthon is a Primordial, who like all the other Primordials should be defeated utterly and brought to heel for the good of all reality...? Am I crazy. Am the the ONLY one who sees this. I dunno it seems to me like Autochthon is too benign/relatively harmless to be worth "defeating and bringing to heel". I just don't see the point. Like, I think you'd be losing more than you gained, since he could potentially be a big boon in unfucking Creation.
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May 20, 2014 03:17
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Spoken like a true coward. Titans belong in chains.
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May 20, 2014 03:20
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Mr. Maltose posted:Your name, dude. I know. I was intentionally missing the joke to make a self-depreciating joke and confirming I did not in fact do it.
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May 20, 2014 03:22
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Attorney at Funk posted:Spoken like a true coward. Titans belong in chains.  There's so many more legitimately compelling (read: at all concerning) threats.I'll compromise with you, I'll put him at absolute dead last on my priority list right behind someone vaguely scary.
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May 20, 2014 03:22
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Captain Oblivious posted:I dunno it seems to me like Autochthon is too benign/relatively harmless to be worth "defeating and bringing to heel". I just don't see the point. He genuinely likes humanity, to boot. If only because they're the pale shadow of his original creation. However maimed, its still his baby.
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May 20, 2014 03:40
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Autochthon is just a giant space nerd trying to live his techno-capitalist Randian dreams and escape from fiat currency. He's pathetic enough already.
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May 20, 2014 03:41
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NIV3K posted:According to an update on Mørke's second GoFundMe they have started work on the second book. I'm glad he got the funding. But why start the second if you aren't done of the first? Meh, he mentioned that the 3rd and 4th stages were underway. But as many things in this kickstarter, we don't know if there are only 5 stages or 59 stages.
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May 20, 2014 03:42
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Bardlebee posted:I'm glad he got the funding. But why start the second if you aren't done of the first? Well, they probably finished writing everything the first time and now want to give it all more playtesting before the next round of editing, so the writers have free time that can go to Arms of the Chosen.
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May 20, 2014 03:52
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Rand Brittain posted:Well, they probably finished writing everything the first time and now want to give it all more playtesting before the next round of editing, so the writers have free time that can go to Arms of the Chosen. I figured that was the reason, my comment was more in jest then anything else. Arms of The Chosen I am thinking will be easier for them to finish too since really you can imagine core mechanics are going to take the most time. Once you have that you can theory craft artifacts all day long.
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May 20, 2014 03:55
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Ferrinus posted:Your very first sentence is wrong, though? You don't need Autocthon (The State) to have perfect judgement and foresight. You just need it to have... some. Dammitwho's point is that it's the task of the alchemicals to transform Autocthon from a system solely devoted to propagating itself (which sometimes, as a byproduct, causes some humans to remain alive) into a system dedicated to human flourishing. In general, the question in Exalted is never "are we smart and/or powerful enough to do this" (we pretty much always are), it's "is the thing we want to do, itself, a good idea". But then you'd have to be perfect!!!-style hyperbole is absurd. It's not about ceding power to Autocthon and expecting him to act in our best interests (he clearly never has), it's about taking power over Autocthon and wielding him to humanity's benefit. Yeah, those are fair points. You're saying the Alchemicals (Vanguard) should cure Autochthon (The State) of the Blight (Capitalism) and turn him into a system dedicated to human flourishing, right? But even if you get rid of the Blight, he's still a vast, inhospitable being to whom human beings are something fundamentally alien: "In many ways, Autochthon was the kindest Primordial where humans were concerned, possessing a genuine affection for them. Yet, he was still a Primordial and comprehended the tiny creatures living within him imperfectly and with difficulty." I mean here again, the Alchemicals are their patron in miniature. "Most Alchemicals are assumed to be clipped, mechanical, aloof and concerned with productivity and results rather than mortal concerns such as comfort and happiness." Even if the Alchemicals were to commandeer Autocthon, they'd still be acting under the yoke of Clarity (State ideology). And just look at the mechanics for Transhuman Essence - the transition to Metropolis (Province of the Nation-State) provides just enough Clarity to push them into the qualitatively alien. Their -1 internal penalty to all social actions bar intimidation exposes the violence at the heart of the state! The only creatures they can speak to without penalty - in fact, they enjoy a bonus - are Autochthonian spirits, automatons, or Alchemicals of equal or greater Clarity (Those similarly blinded by the ideology of the State). They become incapable of emotional commitments to things not immediately relevant to their Motivation. They lose their Compassion. The 'Effects of Clarity' chart is a critique of State ideology. I'd like to hear why you've got a problem with that second to last sentence - it's always interesting to hear why stuff is taken for granted as being dumb. The way I see it, the "heroes of the vanguard" were identified with the Alchemicals, and the Alchemicals are literally superhuman Exalts, so it's fair to say the reading identified the "heroes of the vanguard" as superhuman. It sounds like the self-congratulatory stuff I usually hear from people who self-identify as a part of a 'vanguard' - I mean the whole idea of a vanguard is it's a bunch of people saying "Well everyone else has obviously got it wrong, they just have to catch up with us!", "Well this must be the first time in human history that anyone has been Right About Everything! I mean sure, precedent says we'll be proven wrong at some point, but this is different!" P.S. The Primordials are Ideology, the Neverborn are dead ideology and nihilism. This is why Abyssals are the only ones able to escape the Great Curse (The blind spots of ideology). I'm still figuring out what the Yozi are. P.P.S. The Viator of Nullspace is Fascism, the Jungian Shadow of the State.
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May 20, 2014 10:25
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Bigup DJ posted:
Just as the Neverborn are dead ideologies, the Yozi are failed ones; they've just enough vital force to continue existing, limping on across time, but they lack sufficient support and validity to affect true change.
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May 20, 2014 10:53
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Punting posted:Just as the Neverborn are dead ideologies, the Yozi are failed ones; they've just enough vital force to continue existing, limping on across time, but they lack sufficient support and validity to affect true change. Also, they are badly fractured and spend most of their time in-fighting.
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May 20, 2014 11:00
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Bigup DJ posted:Yeah, those are fair points. You're saying the Alchemicals (Vanguard) should cure Autochthon (The State) of the Blight (Capitalism) and turn him into a system dedicated to human flourishing, right? But even if you get rid of the Blight, he's still a vast, inhospitable being to whom human beings are something fundamentally alien: Alchemicals are their patron in miniature, but the patron of the Alchemicals is himself a made thing. I mean, he isn't actually, he presumably spawned from the chaos just like the rest of his kind, but his aspect and nature is that of a piece of artifice. All the gears and rivets pipes and things are the mark of something that has been built and can be repaired, dismantled, or rebuilt, and that in general can be designed rather than just harnessed. The Alchemicals themselves are artificial, built from the ground up to be Autocthon's agents but drawn from the ranks of Autocthons citizens. In fact, they're even maintained by Autocthon's citizens, because iirc vat complexes aren't wholly automated, are they? You need surgeons and technicians and things to keep an Alchemical going and fully upgraded. So, sure, Alchemical Exalted are (super/in)human, but so is a rail network or hospital. So, of course, is a corporation or army, but the Locust Crusade's hovering over the whole of Autocthonia as a Bad End, not as a categorical inevitability. quote:I'd like to hear why you've got a problem with that second to last sentence - it's always interesting to hear why stuff is taken for granted as being dumb. The way I see it, the "heroes of the vanguard" were identified with the Alchemicals, and the Alchemicals are literally superhuman Exalts, so it's fair to say the reading identified the "heroes of the vanguard" as superhuman. It sounds like the self-congratulatory stuff I usually hear from people who self-identify as a part of a 'vanguard' - I mean the whole idea of a vanguard is it's a bunch of people saying "Well everyone else has obviously got it wrong, they just have to catch up with us!", "Well this must be the first time in human history that anyone has been Right About Everything! I mean sure, precedent says we'll be proven wrong at some point, but this is different!" Well, it was basically an insult...? "You're hugely arrogant and evil, right? Right. Moving on, ..." I mean, I'm not the guy who wrote the post you were responding to, I'm just saying.
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May 20, 2014 11:20
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Bardlebee posted:Meh, he mentioned that the 3rd and 4th stages were underway.
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May 20, 2014 15:20
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What's up with that comic?
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May 20, 2014 21:21
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More Charm previews.quote:All-Seeing Master Procurer All-Seeing Master Procurer makes me wonder "okay, but where's the Willpower cost to ignore/see through it?", though I imagine that could mostly be an aspect of the phrasing "makes characters think" rather than the Charm being written in a way that just makes it obvious (or Obvious) to any onlookers that there's somebody with Bureaucracy 4+ tromping around through their little market. Actually, a couple of the charms feel phrased kind of awkwardly in general, like with Angle-Tracing Edge's last sentence.
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May 23, 2014 20:23
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No! Those morons! What are they doing! I can feel my enthusiasm for Exalted dwindling as these mechanics previews both take away from the upcoming surprise and poison the well of online discussion!
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May 23, 2014 20:31
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