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ToxicSlurpee posted:Not exactly. A lot of indigenous American cultures had a few special roles for people they called "two-spirits," which were people that didn't exactly fit standard gender qualities. It's actually pretty damned old concept that western culture wasn't exactly friendly to. Even so, many indigenous cultures didn't really give a poo poo which gender you wanted to act like. Some tasks were considered masculine, some feminine, and some people crossed that aisle a lot. Some tribes actually had special social roles that could only be filled by two-spirits. Lemming posted:I think it's more of a Native American thing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-Spirit This is the origin of the term, yes, but nowadays it's primarily applied to white people.
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May 20, 2014 20:19
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It's a stupid tumblr thing. If somebody uses the term unironically to describe themselves they're probably batshit crazy.
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May 20, 2014 20:19
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Notorious QIG posted:This is the origin of the term, yes, but nowadays it's primarily applied to white people. That's where the term came from but, hate to break it to you, gender roles in society has never been a perfectly black and white thing. Some people look at the other gender and take on traits that are traditionally associated with it or just flat out decide their own society-imposed gender role just doesn't suit them.
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May 20, 2014 20:22
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ToxicSlurpee posted:That's where the term came from but, hate to break it to you, gender roles in society has never been a perfectly black and white thing. Some people look at the other gender and take on traits that are traditionally associated with it or just flat out decide their own society-imposed gender role just doesn't suit them. I'm well aware, thanks.
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May 20, 2014 20:22
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Notorious QIG posted:This is the origin of the term, yes, but nowadays it's primarily applied to white people. Fair enough. I guess it's not exactly surprising to hear about white people co-opting something.
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May 20, 2014 21:28
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Buried alive posted:To be fair to the guy, he seems to be saying that common core advocates and other organizations will make your kids gay, not the common core standards themselves. Still dumb as hell. It's all motivated by the fact that the organization offers support for gender-related issues. Speaking of which: Some Native American tribe accepts gay people as "two spirit" people.
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May 20, 2014 21:35
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@fart just retweeted Pat Sajak reminding everyone that he's a loving moron
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May 20, 2014 22:04
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Phone posted:@fart just retweeted Pat Sajak reminding everyone that he's a loving moron How are they racists exactly?
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May 20, 2014 22:09
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They're Democrats, duh.
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May 20, 2014 22:13
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Phone posted:@fart just retweeted Pat Sajak reminding everyone that he's a loving moron Pat if those "ends" include the strangling of industry for aesthetic reasons, YOU'RE A loving BIRCHER. JBS thought is now bland Republican orthodoxy, and our poo poo is so infinitely hosed in this abortion of a country.
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May 20, 2014 22:17
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Goodnight indeed my friend
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May 20, 2014 22:21
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That's really his Twitter account. Huh. Guess he's old and rich enough that he's stopped giving a gently caress.
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May 20, 2014 22:25
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I thought it was fake for a second after I posted it, but nope, he has the blue badge of VERIFIED ACCOUNT.
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May 20, 2014 22:36
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Zeroisanumber posted:That's really his Twitter account. Huh. Guess he's old and rich enough that he's stopped giving a gently caress. Old fucks hate the idea of action on climate, bc they get asked to do a thing but won't ever be around to take credit for doing it.
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May 20, 2014 22:38
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My understanding is that Two-Spirited people were more along the lines of modern third-gender options like really swishy gay men and really butch lesbians. So, homosexual members of one gender adopting exaggerated traits from the opposite gender. This is in contrast to Herculean or Sapphic notions of homosexuality where it is all about reveling in exaggerated traits from within their gender. There are plenty of examples of both trends in numerous cultures throughout history, often co-existing. Instead of calling yourself Two-Spirited, why not just call yourself "fabulous" and rock out to some sweet dance remixes in drag.
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May 20, 2014 22:41
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Shbobdb posted:My understanding is that Two-Spirited people were more along the lines of modern third-gender options like really swishy gay men and really butch lesbians. So, homosexual members of one gender adopting exaggerated traits from the opposite gender. This is in contrast to Herculean or Sapphic notions of homosexuality where it is all about reveling in exaggerated traits from within their gender. What does this have to do with conservative politics, or anything.
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May 20, 2014 22:46
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Multiple-tabs are a hell of a drug. I was making fun of tumberlites and somehow ended up here.
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May 20, 2014 22:56
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Darkman Fanpage posted:So how exactly do you attract children to homosexuality? Is there some sort of benefit that homosexuality has over heterosexuality that children would find especially appealing? 
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May 20, 2014 23:17
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Darkman Fanpage posted:So how exactly do you attract children to homosexuality? Is there some sort of benefit that homosexuality has over heterosexuality that children would find especially appealing? Being gay is cheaper than hiring a decorator.
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May 20, 2014 23:22
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I love how conservatives seem to think that as long as we don't tell kids about this or that sexual activity, that it will just never occur to them to try it. Because we all know how uninterested teenagers are in their bodies and how terrible they are at figuring out how to get themselves and each other off. Darkman Fanpage posted:So how exactly do you attract children to homosexuality? Is there some sort of benefit that homosexuality has over heterosexuality that children would find especially appealing? Parents generally don't have a problem with you having a same-sex friend spend the night at your house unsupervised. Also, entire organizations exist where you get to go camping in the woods with a bunch of same-sex friends your own age. Just sayin' VitalSigns fucked around with this message at 23:35 on May 20, 2014 |
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May 20, 2014 23:30
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Phone posted:@fart just retweeted Pat Sajak reminding everyone that he's a loving moron Chuck Woolery has similar thoughts too. What is it with these game show hosts and those views Also remember when Sajak had a Fox News show, that tweet shouldn't have been surprising from that alone
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May 20, 2014 23:37
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VitalSigns posted:I love how conservatives seem to think that as long as we don't tell kids about this or that sexual activity, that it will just never occur to them to try it. There's also the whole "How am I supposed to explain this to my kids!!!!" thing too, which I think is just coded language for "I don't think it should exist". Then again I also have some friends who won't explain or even bring up the subject of marijuana around their kids even though they themselves are regular users. Mercury_Storm fucked around with this message at 00:07 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 00:05
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VitalSigns posted:I love how conservatives seem to think that as long as we don't tell kids about this or that sexual activity, that it will just never occur to them to try it. And beyond that, their rhetoric suggests it's really tempting to go gay in what's still an era of persecution. Beyond whatever homoerotic aspects of macho culture we have, it's just not something I get, at a gut level. As a straight guy, I can agree with "that's a good-looking man" but there's no follow-up of "it'd be nice to get to know him romantically and touch affectionately etc" the way there is with an equivalent woman. Kids get new pants or haircuts for trends, they don't commit to a lifetime of unfulfilling sex and discrimination.
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May 21, 2014 00:07
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Remember, lots of Evangelicals don't believe in homosexuality. They don't think people are born homosexual any more than people are born thieves or born adulterers. There are no homosexuals, just people who engage in (sinful) homosexual acts. Homosexuality is a temptation and a choice, one that can people can be led into (by Hollywood movies and Ellen DeGeneres and gays who "recruit" young men and women) and also be led out of (hence, those pray-away-the-gay conversion programs). So, by their weird worldview, there is such a thing as gay propaganda that tempts people to fall away from the path of righteousness. Being gay is unnatural, so those impulses have to come from somewhere, and every effort to "mainstream" acceptance of homosexuality is driving people into error and sin. This is also why they're so fixated on the "gay lifestyle" being a constant 24-hour orgy of dicks and butts and degradation, and why the very notion of two gay people just deciding to marry and settle down and build a life together makes about as much sense to them as asking a computer to divide by zero.
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May 21, 2014 00:18
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FMguru posted:Remember, lots of Evangelicals don't believe in homosexuality. They don't think people are born homosexual any more than people are born thieves or born adulterers. There are no homosexuals, just people who engage in (sinful) homosexual acts. Homosexuality is a temptation and a choice, one that can people can be led into (by Hollywood movies and Ellen DeGeneres and gays who "recruit" young men and women) and also be led out of (hence, those pray-away-the-gay conversion programs). So, by their weird worldview, there is such a thing as gay propaganda that tempts people to fall away from the path of righteousness. Being gay is unnatural, so those impulses have to come from somewhere, and every effort to "mainstream" acceptance of homosexuality is driving people into error and sin. Yeah, but the evangelicals and the liberals aren't the only people in America. There's another huge bloc that just has an inherited cultural aversion to guys kissing. Way the gently caress easier to change though, simply by a stronger culture of tolerance displacing the old one. So these guys are disappearing in their desperate quest to please women (who have gay friends). And all of evangelical Christianity starts from an us vs them, (if we're not being persecuted we're not doing it right), place. So you can expect them to dissent from a lot about the new world. agarjogger fucked around with this message at 00:26 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 00:24
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FMguru posted:Remember, lots of Evangelicals don't believe in homosexuality. They don't think people are born homosexual any more than people are born thieves or born adulterers...Homosexuality is a temptation and a choice, one that can people can be led into Okayyyyyy, but they also claim that homosexuality is gross and disgusting, physically repulsive, which doesn't jive with the notion that it's a delectable temptation that humankind must resist choosing. Like, sure they say adultery is a horrible sinful thing...but you never hear them claim that adultery doesn't feel good while you're doing it, or say that they find the act physically (not just morally) revolting.
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May 21, 2014 00:28
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The guy has old and has probably made one too many trips around the wheel.
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May 21, 2014 01:23
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VitalSigns posted:Okayyyyyy, but they also claim that homosexuality is gross and disgusting, physically repulsive, which doesn't jive with the notion that it's a delectable temptation that humankind must resist choosing. Perhaps (the straight ones) believe gay sex is some sort of evil mystical temptation that only the devil can make you desire, so then they can pat themselves on the back for having successfully warded off the Great Satan. Imagine my surprise when my own father tried to explain to me that he (a heavily conservative fundamentalist) was "tempted" by The Gay, but was able to resist! It's like, wow, congratulations! I don't even know if he did actually have attractions to other men or whether he considered the "temptation" to be some guy hitting on him that he shrugged off, but yeah. My parents are also the type that believed that there are literal invisible battles of angels and demons happening right now on planet Earth, so I wouldn't put it past them or other Christianists to have beliefs like this. Mercury_Storm fucked around with this message at 01:39 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 01:33
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VitalSigns posted:Okayyyyyy, but they also claim that homosexuality is gross and disgusting, physically repulsive, which doesn't jive with the notion that it's a delectable temptation that humankind must resist choosing. This is fairly well addressed in Christian theology, though my experience is that the theological background of the average American Evangelical is rather low. Mine isn't much better, but I'll give it a shot. The state of sin is a state of separation from God. Sinful acts are only "attractive" because of this disconnect. A repentant sinner desires to end this separation and love God as God loves him. To make a bad analogy, imagine an angry teenager. He is in a state of rebellion from his parents; he hates them and defies their authority. If he is presented with the opportunity to perform a rebellious act, like stealing his dad's car, he is likely to do so. After all, his old man's a dick, and it would be totally sweet to have that ride. His dad's car sitting in the driveway with the keys in the visor is thus a temptation to him. If he decides to end his rebellion and love his parents, however, the idea of stealing a car is no longer tempting to him, but reprehensible - he loves his father and would never steal from him. The very same car in the driveway with its keys in the visor is no longer a source of temptation because the relationship between him and his father has changed. Within this context it makes some sense to say that homosexuality is "tempting" while nevertheless calling it "repulsive." Rebellious behavior is tempting to a rebel, and repulsive to the faithful. Of course, temptation is not sin, and even the repentant are tempted. Nobody is in perfect accord with God; even the faithful teenager falls out with his dad sometimes, and in those moments he might be tempted to take that car for a drive. This is the result of human beings being intrinsically flawed. Because he is repentant, however, he does not act on temptations to sin and endeavors to return to accord with God out of love. I think people who don't understand the vitriol against homosexuals by evangelical Christians are really failing to appreciate that this is not merely disgust with homosexual acts, but the concept that "militant" homosexuality is willful rejection of and rebellion against God. This is also why a evangelical Christian who commits adultery or racks up gambling debts or whatever is not as shunned as a "militant" homosexual; everybody sins, but at least the adulterous pastor (supposedly) recognizes his act as sin and is attempting to repent and come back into God's good graces. He's not a "militant adulterer" who proclaims his actions as good and natural. Glass Hand fucked around with this message at 01:38 on May 21, 2014 |
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May 21, 2014 01:36
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Zuhzuhzombie!! posted:The guy has old and has probably made one too many trips around the wheel.
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May 21, 2014 01:55
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Two-spirit means "queer and Native American." It's an umbrella term. The only place I've seen it suggested that it mean anything else is here on SA.
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May 21, 2014 02:29
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Mecca-Benghazi posted:Two-spirit means "queer and Native American." It's an umbrella term. The only place I've seen it suggested that it mean anything else is here on SA. A statistically significant part of the transgender community now identifies that way. Some of those are Native Americans, certainly, but a lot of them are not. I've seen this on other websites as well as in real life at places like the Philadelphia Trans-Health Conference or even small LGBT events here in Delaware. Also I'm derailing now so I now return you to your regularly scheduled Limbaugh quotes.
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May 21, 2014 02:34
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Mercury_Storm posted:My parents are also the type that believed that there are literal invisible battles of angels and demons happening right now on planet Earth, so I wouldn't put it past them or other Christianists to have beliefs like this. My now deceased Grandma believed that "The Stand" by Stephen King was an actual representation of the Biblical Apocalypse. Like she described watching the mini series on tv and believed that to be the accurate version.
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May 21, 2014 02:37
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Notorious QIG posted:A statistically significant part of the transgender community now identifies that way. Some of those are Native Americans, certainly, but a lot of them are not. I've seen this on other websites as well as in real life at places like the Philadelphia Trans-Health Conference or even small LGBT events here in Delaware. Why do you care so much what they call themselves? I've heard it called "gender queer" a bunch before. Is it so crazy to think that maybe some people take exception to the "queer" part of that label, and instead decide to borrow a term from Native American culture that happens to fit perfectly with how they feel about their own identity? Should they have to register with you in order to get a *QIG Approved* personal label? Would that make you feel better about it?
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May 21, 2014 02:42
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Tatum Girlparts posted:Look can someone just tell me how problematic Spider-Man is before Wednesday because if I have to think on my own about things aside from forcing literally every media I consume into one size fits none political slots so I can smugly chortle at people who consume 'conservative media' while pretending that media that's more focused on being 'liberal' than anything else wouldn't be equally insufferable I may just freeze up.
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May 21, 2014 02:51
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:J. Jonah Jameson is basically Michael Savage. Michael Savage couldn't run a paper to save his life.
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May 21, 2014 03:09
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Right at this very moment, Dennis Miller is saying that you, literally, will be put in jail for denying global warming.
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May 21, 2014 03:42
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Literally "if you're going to talk about how global warming isn't real; They will jail you. They're going to put you in prison for this."
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May 21, 2014 03:43
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Global Warming: Hoax or Lie?
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May 21, 2014 03:48
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Didn't that two spirit thing come from the fact that if you hosed dudes as a native most tribes basically just made you be a woman?
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May 21, 2014 03:48
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