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FrozenGoldfishGod
Oct 29, 2009

JUST LOOK AT THIS SHIT POST!



So I've been without internet for a while, so I couldn't really reply sooner than this, but here's something that I felt needs replying to:

Evil Mastermind posted:

Well, before we even get into the power of the stunt, it does have a very "secret language of character sheets" vibe to it (i.e., the player saying "this is something I want to see happen in the game a lot").

This is basically how I regarded their choice in powers.

Evil Mastermind posted:

I think it's a legacy problem from the original game though; there are so many Charms that are ridiculously situational that translating them as-is into another system causes issues because at least in Exalted you get bunches of them, but stunts in Fate are a more limited resource.

You seem to think I went about this backwards. I didn't start with a list of Exalted charms in front of me and start converting them: I asked my players what kinds of supernaturally potent things they wanted to be able to do. The player of the Twilight Caste specified that she wanted to be able to diagnose diseases quickly. When I asked if she wanted a stunt to help with the actual diagnosis, she pointed out that she had a perfectly good Aspect for that, so we agreed that the speed was what she wanted the stunt to modify.

Quadratic_Wizard posted:

Neither really seems practical in the actual game. "Mysterious illness" is a plot thing, and it's not something you can run into more than once every few campaigns without it being just House. I think it's okay if you expand the scope a bit.

On the contrary, in a campaign focused on (among others) a character with a strong medical focus, I firmly expect to bring up Abyssals and plague-spirits as frequent antagonists - and being able to identify that yes, this is Razor-Fanged Serpent's work at a glance might be very useful.

Quadratic_Wizard posted:

Enlightened Physician's Diagnostic Excellence
You can diagnose most any illness with only a quick inspection, and even the most obscure take only minutes. You also know the proper treatment for any illness you diagnose, and how to procure those items, even if they are inaccessible at the time (for example, a rare flower at the world's tallest mountain, or an elixir in the king's vault). Finally, your ability to properly treat wounds can greatly speed the healing process. Moderate Consequences you personally treat heal one step more quickly.

A few things with this: One, any stunt that outright bypasses a roll, I usually make cost a Fate Point to activate. It's a good rule of thumb to help keep things balanced. Second, with her Aspects, and her Medicine, any time she REALLY wants to know it, she's rolling at a +6 (and possibly a +8 under some circumstances), making this stunt entirely unnecessary. And lastly, fixing Consequences early is part and parcel of having a high Medicine in a game where the baseline for PCs is being a superhuman paragon of excellence.

That being said, in a game where the baseline was 'normal human', this would make an excellent stunt.

Quadratic_Wizard posted:

Ancient Voices Remembered
"When you attempt to translate an ancient scroll in a language your First Age incarnation could reasonably have known, take a +2 to your Lore roll."

This is another one that needs some work. A stunt needs to be able to be at least as useful as a fate point, and if someone can just Invoke their past life aspect for that same +2 bonus to their Lore roll--and virtually any other roll--it's not going to be useful, unless there are just going to be a ton of plot critical untranslated junk that is going to screw the PCs over if they don't translate it.

Try this.

Ancient Voices Remembered
Once per scene, if you can describe how something relevant feels familiar to your past life aspect, you can Invoke your past life aspect to aid on a non-combat roll free. For example, you could gain a bonus to a Lore roll to translate a language your past life was able to read, or gain a bonus to your Physique roll to resist poison, because your past life tasted that same poison before and you know to spit it out.

The problem here is that you assume that there is a 'past life' Aspect. In general, there isn't, since this game is about who the PCs are now - if you want it to be relevant, take an Extra with the Free Aspect you get, or put it in your Concept.

And I've got a few more written up; because the players tend to make up their powers as they go, these ones are more for NPCs, and are intended to be evocative when I look over my notes:

Great Mother's Grasp
You can grab at a target from a distance, provided there is water below or next to the target of your grab. (Grabbing I usually handle as a straightforward Create Advantage/Overcome Obstacle; it lets you place certain Aspects on the target, and the target can try to Overcome your grab to either remove those Aspects, or prevent them from getting placed in the first place).

Open the Maiden's Gate
You can open a temporary gate from Yu-Shan to the current location of anyone, provided you have at least one of their possessions in your hand when you do so.

FrozenGoldfishGod fucked around with this message at 09:36 on May 22, 2014

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Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

FrozenGoldfishGod posted:

You seem to think I went about this backwards. I didn't start with a list of Exalted charms in front of me and start converting them: I asked my players what kinds of supernaturally potent things they wanted to be able to do. The player of the Twilight Caste specified that she wanted to be able to diagnose diseases quickly. When I asked if she wanted a stunt to help with the actual diagnosis, she pointed out that she had a perfectly good Aspect for that, so we agreed that the speed was what she wanted the stunt to modify.
My apologies for assuming that wasn't the case; more often than not when people convert game A into system B they try to convert things one-for-one and force the stuff that doesn't line up mechanically rather than working the themes and feel of the setting into the new system


In other news, Fred Hicks has said that he'll make the Atomic Robo PDF available now for $10 if he hits 500 preorders of the print edition, and he's at 495. So if you were on the fence for preordering, now'd be a good time.

mikeycp
Nov 24, 2010

I've changed a lot since I started hanging with Sonic, but I can't depend on him forever. I know I can do this by myself! Okay, Eggman! Bring it on!
So I have a situation I need help with. I want to run a game with Kamen Rider-esque powers. I was wondering how I could possibly work this, without making it overwhelming as far as extra rules.

One idea I was playing with was giving a free Henshin/Transform/Whatever skill (maybe charging a fate for it?) that gives an extra die for the rest of the scene. In this case I would also have at least one of their starting stunts require them to be changed first in order for them to use it.

Is this a sensible way to handle this, or is there some better way I'm not thinking of?

Krysmphoenix
Jul 29, 2010
The way someone handled it for a Power Ranges game was that everyone rolled Will to transform as a Create Advantage. Everyone succeeded at their transformation, but high rolls meant you took them off guard, low rolls meant they surrounded you when you took your sweet rear end time transforming, or something similarly bad.

That was in addition to the benefits that transforming gave which I...don't actually remember what they were for that game.

deadly_pudding
May 13, 2009

who the fuck is scraeming
"LOG OFF" at my house.
show yourself, coward.
i will never log off

Krysmphoenix posted:

The way someone handled it for a Power Ranges game was that everyone rolled Will to transform as a Create Advantage. Everyone succeeded at their transformation, but high rolls meant you took them off guard, low rolls meant they surrounded you when you took your sweet rear end time transforming, or something similarly bad.

That was in addition to the benefits that transforming gave which I...don't actually remember what they were for that game.

Oh! I like this, too. It's thematically appropriate, too, because you get a free Invoke that you can use to strike a wicked pose as a Provoke attack or something.

mikeycp
Nov 24, 2010

I've changed a lot since I started hanging with Sonic, but I can't depend on him forever. I know I can do this by myself! Okay, Eggman! Bring it on!
That's a much more elegant way than what I thought of. I'd be interested to hear if anyone remembers those other benefits. If archives weren't broken I would go digging for the game myself.

jivjov
Sep 13, 2007

But how does it taste? Yummy!
Dinosaur Gum
Oooh, that was actually my game! Yeah, in addition to the "everyone succeeds" thing, the big thing I tied to transformation was that being in human mode gave you a bonus to talky stuff with civilians (in my setting, Power Rangers were kinda feared due to their immense power and tendency to blow up parts of the city) and being stealthy (because MOTWs would be looking for spandex-clad heroes, not a couple of teens in red and blue t-shirts), but if you entered into any combat with anything other than mooks while untransformed you would quickly get your poo poo tossed.

mikeycp
Nov 24, 2010

I've changed a lot since I started hanging with Sonic, but I can't depend on him forever. I know I can do this by myself! Okay, Eggman! Bring it on!
I would be interested in discussing the specific mechanics, if you are. I can talk here, or I have PMs, or Steam, or something.

FrozenGoldfishGod
Oct 29, 2009

JUST LOOK AT THIS SHIT POST!



mikeycp posted:

I would be interested in discussing the specific mechanics, if you are. I can talk here, or I have PMs, or Steam, or something.

One thing that occurs to me about how you could handle this is that Aspects are always true, even without an invoke. So one of my Exalted players has the Aspect Master of the Glorious Hero Style - that means that even without an invoke or a compel, he is the undisputed master in the game world of the Glorious Hero martial arts style. His personal story has had this come up once already. I've put in a bonus rule (don't recall seeing it in Core, but it's thematically appropriate) that while you can invoke an Aspect once per scene normally, if I compel on it, you can invoke it again afterwards. In other words, compelling 'resets' an Aspect for invocation, if it's been used. The scene where he first confronted Ligier's Hammer, Chosen of the King of Kings and Master of the Infernal Monster Style, was agreed on by all the players to be one of the best fight scenes by that point in the game (though the more cerebral 'fight' scene between the Twilight Caste and Razor-Fanged Serpent has since usurped the title, according to my players.)

So in a Power Rangers game, a 'Morph' aspect would be true whenever you were morphed, as a permutation on this rule - so you wouldn't need to invoke it to be Morphed, but it would only be true (and therefore, only be invokable) when you were Morphed, while a 'Human' aspect would only be true while you were in normal form.

FrozenGoldfishGod fucked around with this message at 04:57 on May 23, 2014

mikeycp
Nov 24, 2010

I've changed a lot since I started hanging with Sonic, but I can't depend on him forever. I know I can do this by myself! Okay, Eggman! Bring it on!
What are some ways you could compel a "Morph" aspect? It seems to me to be too one sided toward positive to be an effective aspect, unless I were to put a hard limitation on the concept of morphing in this world.

Transient People
Dec 22, 2011

"When a man thinketh on anything whatsoever, his next thought after is not altogether so casual as it seems to be. Not every thought to every thought succeeds indifferently."
- Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

mikeycp posted:

What are some ways you could compel a "Morph" aspect? It seems to me to be too one sided toward positive to be an effective aspect, unless I were to put a hard limitation on the concept of morphing in this world.

Super secret ninja technique: Not all Aspects must be double edged swords. If an Aspect Just Fits (TM) but has no downside or upside, then gently caress it, roll with it anyways. It just means you have an ol' reliable for invokes or a license to print FP, and that's fine. I'm not sure I'd use Morph Aspects on the character sheets of the PCs for a Sentai or Power Rangers game though. It almost seems to me like you'd want a World Aspect of It's Morphing Time! instead.

FrozenGoldfishGod
Oct 29, 2009

JUST LOOK AT THIS SHIT POST!



Transient People posted:

Super secret ninja technique: Not all Aspects must be double edged swords. If an Aspect Just Fits (TM) but has no downside or upside, then gently caress it, roll with it anyways. It just means you have an ol' reliable for invokes or a license to print FP, and that's fine. I'm not sure I'd use Morph Aspects on the character sheets of the PCs for a Sentai or Power Rangers game though. It almost seems to me like you'd want a World Aspect of It's Morphing Time! instead.

This. I'll admit, the last time I saw Power Rangers was when I was, like, 8, so I'm not terribly familiar with it (or with the genre in general, really). If I were going to do something like that (hello, Lunars), I'd compel the Morph aspect in a situation where blowing their secret identity (if they have those) could up the stakes somehow, or when they're trying to do Normal Person stuff in Morph form for some reason, if you were really determined to make it a character thing.

And since I'm running Exalted again tomorrow, I'd like to hear the thread's ideas on how to handle Lunars, since they're going to be making their first on-screen appearance in the campaign as (potentially) something other than 'this episode's monster', and I like to actually stat out full-on recurring characters, since that gives me some inspiration on what kinds of approaches they might try. (For one-shot characters that need a stat spread beyond 'basic concept Aspect and a stress track', I just use the FAE approaches plus a couple aspects).

My basic idea is that their totem animal/Tell is a part of their Concept aspect, like a Solar's caste. Instead of a Free aspect, they get a Shape aspect. When they're in human form, this Aspect reflects whatever it is they're tied to - if they're running a tribe of barbarians, for instance, they get the Barbarian Warlord Aspect in human form, since it's pretty much irrelevant when they're not in human form. Then when they turn into, say, a Utahraptor, they get the 'Raptor Red' Aspect (or whatever; the point is, the Aspect should reflect the fact that they can jump REALLY well and claw the poo poo out of anything that comes in range). If they adopt the form of another person, they get an Aspect related to why they want that shape to begin with. The shapes they can take are based on the fiction; if a given Lunar is based heavily in the West, it makes sense that they can probably assume most common sea animal forms native to their region, and possibly one or two land/air forms based on island life. Since they're not PCs, I don't need to worry too much about Charms and stunts, beyond (again) what sounds evocative and fits the role I have in mind for them.

If anyone's got a better idea for handling it, though, I'd love to hear it (and yes, I own the DFRPG books and have considered the Dresden Files shapeshifting system, though that seems a bit cumbersome for someone who could easily have 10+ forms.)

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

The digital version of the Atomic Robo RPG is out today on DriveThru and Evil Hat's web store.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
Hey, Atomic Robo is pretty sweet, y'all should check it out.

GimpInBlack
Sep 27, 2012

That's right, kids, take lots of drugs, leave the universe behind, and pilot Enlightenment Voltron out into the cosmos to meet Alien Jesus.

Kai Tave posted:

Hey, Atomic Robo is pretty sweet, y'all should check it out.

Dr. Dinosaur's sidebars are especially delightful.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
Cool things I like about Atomic Robo:

1). I've never generally had a thing for licensed games really. Like, I don't hate them but neither do I get super excited about playing an RPG in some established setting, especially settings that tend to get licensed for RPGs. That said if you're going to license an RPG then I appreciate it when the writers do more than slap a coat of license-colored paint over a game and call it a day. Atomic Robo is full of examples of play using actual scenes from the comics to illustrate how various exchanges work...a scene from Atomic Robo and the Dogs of War (a volume detailing Robo's WWII adventures) is used to show that even if someone is immune to gunfire that they should still roll defense if attacked by guns, because the attacker could still get a boost which someone else can make use of, for example. And yes, it has sidebars by Dr. Dinosaur.

2). Modes are way, way better than the skill pyramid. Also the skill list is even more consolidated than Core (there's just a single Combat skill for instance, no Resources skill, Investigate is rolled into Notice, and there's no Crafts skill), and Physique and Will are no longer must-takes if you want extra stress boxes (Athletics and Provoke can also be used to add more physical and mental boxes respectively). Given the subject matter of the game there's a single extremely broad-reaching Science skill. In addition to this it gives very simple and clear guidelines for making your own skills if you want to based on the number of applications the skill has...can it defend, can it attack, can it overcome obstacles, can it create advantages, can it be used to heal consequences, etc.

3). There's nothing radically new technology-wise as far as stunt construction goes but it provides a very flexible and clear-cut set of guidelines for new players and even I find the stunt section useful. In addition it handles super-powered stunts in a way that I think is much better than FATE Core. Being super-strong or super-tough is handled pretty elegantly, gadgets are a collection of stunt-powers wrapped in in a package along with a Function aspect and a Flaw aspect, and things like "Psychokinesis" or "Electro-Wizardry" or whatever can be handled using a custom skill as a base plus stunts to flavor.

4). Speaking of stunts, stunts no longer cost refresh which means you don't have the "I want to play a superpowered dude like, say, Atomic Robo but I start every session with one lousy fate point." Everybody has five stunt slots, and if you need more stunts' worth of stuff to make your bulletproof, super-strong, long-lived robot action scientist you can compact multiple stunts into mega-stunts which take up only a single slot. If you go over five stunts worth of cool poo poo then every stunt after that point gives the GM an extra fate point each session in a reserve bank to do GM stuff like invoke/resist compels and add stunts to NPCs.

5). No guest-starring. I think that FATE's insistence on shared backstories and guest-starring in each others' phases was a noble experiment that mainly resulted in character creation taking longer and being more fiddly than it needed to be. You have a Concept aspect, an Omega aspect, and one aspect related to each of your modes, done. Also the Omega aspect isn't a trouble per se...it can be, but it doesn't have to be. After having played through several FATE games I have to say that designating one particular aspect to be singled out as a problem seemed kind of weird since you ideally want most of your aspects to be double-edged anyway for compels, so Atomic Robo leaves it up to you. The Omega aspect can be a flaw, a quirk, or just something that didn't fit anywhere else.

Blasphemeral
Jul 26, 2012

Three mongrel men in exchange for a party member? I found that one in the Faustian Bargain Bin.

Kai Tave posted:

... No guest-starring. I think that FATE's insistence on shared backstories and guest-starring in each others' phases was a noble experiment that mainly resulted in character creation taking longer and being more fiddly than it needed to be...

Uh, what? Are you serious? The guest star phases are one of the best innovations in table-gaming ever made, and prevents even novice GMs from sitting down and saying, "So, you meet some people in a bar, introduce yourselves."

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
Yeah I'm serious. Based on my actual play experience the way FATE handles guest-starring is way more fiddly than it needs to be with everybody deciding who's going to guest in what phase when. There are quicker and more elegant ways of tying backstories together if you need to, and if I'm making a character I like to just go on and get it done rather than waiting for the guy next to me to finish agonizing over how he wants to tie his fourth of five aspects into someone else's.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

I admit that I like the guest-star thing, but I always have problems when my players refuse to wait until everyone's at the same phase in chargen and do each guest appearance one at a time.

Also I made this a while back:

quote:

Faction Name: The Banzai Institute for Biomedical Engineering and Strategic Information

Mission Statement: Science For Humanity

Mode and Skills: Resources +1: Armory, Intel, R&D, Blue Blaze Irregulars, Fame+3

Pressures: Opposing the World Crime League, The Cutting Edge of Knowledge Slices Both Ways


Blue Blaze Irregulars allows the Institute to call on the worldwide network of associates, employees, and fans for help in the oddest of places and the oddest of subjects. Overcome (call on a BBI specialist for information, supplies, or backup on short notice); Create Advantage (call on BBIs to get you out of a tight situation or to get information on a person or subject)

Fame represents how well-known the Institute's members are. After all, members of the Institute are globe-trotting adventurers and rock stars; you're kind of a big deal. Create Advantage (gain leverage or impress someone based on your status as a Hong Kong Cavalier)

GimpInBlack
Sep 27, 2012

That's right, kids, take lots of drugs, leave the universe behind, and pilot Enlightenment Voltron out into the cosmos to meet Alien Jesus.

Evil Mastermind posted:

I admit that I like the guest-star thing, but I always have problems when my players refuse to wait until everyone's at the same phase in chargen and do each guest appearance one at a time.

I've had players get weirdly hung up on the idea that the guest star phases have to be in chronological order and spend way too much time figuring out who was where when. It's a great idea in theory, but I think I prefer something like Apocalypse World's Hx or Monsterhearts' backstory for establishing intra-group connections.

Evil Mastermind posted:

Also I made this a while back:

That's a better Buckaroo Banzai game than anything Gareth Skarka could have done.

I'm working my way through Atomic Robo--so far I'm really digging it. The brainstorming rules in particular are a great piece of genre emulation.

For those who don't have the game, brainstorming is a challenge in which all ghe PCs kibbutz about some weird scientific phenomenon, creating scene Aspects to represent the various clues they've unearthed. Things like Turing Is Involved Somehoe or Unique Positron Signature. Once you've established a few clues, the playrt with the most victories gets to declare a hypothesis about what the hell is going on--and that hypothesis is true. It's a fantastic rule, and one I'd adapt to anything from a House-style medical drama to a game of monster hunters trying to figure out what's eating people this week.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

GimpInBlack posted:

That's a better Buckaroo Banzai game than anything Gareth Skarka could have done.
Tell me about it. Buckaroo Banzai slots into the Roboverse almost perfectly. At most you'd need a "Perform" skill if you wanted to do gigs as a type of conflict to win over a crowd or something.

GimpInBlack
Sep 27, 2012

That's right, kids, take lots of drugs, leave the universe behind, and pilot Enlightenment Voltron out into the cosmos to meet Alien Jesus.

Evil Mastermind posted:

Tell me about it. Buckaroo Banzai slots into the Roboverse almost perfectly. At most you'd need a "Perform" skill if you wanted to do gigs as a type of conflict to win over a crowd or something.

I don't know what you're talking about. Rock and Roll is clearly a Science. :colbert:

Seriously though, yeah. Atomic Robo does basically any combination of pulp action and procedural mystery you could want. I'd even say it does Spirit of the Century better than Spirit of the Century, even with the Fate Core upgrade.

Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

The thing it, it works well for any "action/weird science" series; Buckaroo Banzai, Warehouse 13, Eureka, Fringe...

Hyperactive
Mar 10, 2004

RICHARDS!

Evil Mastermind posted:

Tell me about it. Buckaroo Banzai slots into the Roboverse almost perfectly.
There's a line in the latest issue that confirms this. The Institute probably doesn't exist though.

GimpInBlack posted:

I don't know what you're talking about. Rock and Roll is clearly a Science. :colbert:
Correct!

quote:

Seriously though, yeah. Atomic Robo does basically any combination of pulp action and procedural mystery you could want.
Also correct.

Evil Mastermind posted:

The thing it, it works well for any "action/weird science" series; Buckaroo Banzai, Warehouse 13, Eureka, Fringe...
The first Robo RPG supplement, which I'm working on right now, has what I hope to be an interesting and unexpectedly canonical take on doing things like that.

Transient People
Dec 22, 2011

"When a man thinketh on anything whatsoever, his next thought after is not altogether so casual as it seems to be. Not every thought to every thought succeeds indifferently."
- Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

Kai Tave posted:

Yeah I'm serious. Based on my actual play experience the way FATE handles guest-starring is way more fiddly than it needs to be with everybody deciding who's going to guest in what phase when. There are quicker and more elegant ways of tying backstories together if you need to, and if I'm making a character I like to just go on and get it done rather than waiting for the guy next to me to finish agonizing over how he wants to tie his fourth of five aspects into someone else's.

Yeah, gonna vouch for it. Guest Stars are a neat idea in theory, but the practice just doesn't work. You can't make a team gel together with forced cooperation. It just ends up in people halfheartedly doing some poo poo to slot another facet of their characters in when they should be showcasing relationships. I know I've done it before.

GimpInBlack
Sep 27, 2012

That's right, kids, take lots of drugs, leave the universe behind, and pilot Enlightenment Voltron out into the cosmos to meet Alien Jesus.

Evil Mastermind posted:

The thing it, it works well for any "action/weird science" series; Buckaroo Banzai, Warehouse 13, Eureka, Fringe...

Truth. It also, with a very small tweak, works for monster of the week type games in the vejn of Buffy or Supernatural. Just change the Science mode to Occult, and let people specialize in demonology or witchcraft or whatever.

Hyperactive posted:

The first Robo RPG supplement, which I'm working on right now, has what I hope to be an interesting and unexpectedly canonical take on doing things like that.

You have my attention.

Mitama
Feb 28, 2011

Hyperactive posted:

The first Robo RPG supplement, which I'm working on right now, has what I hope to be an interesting and unexpectedly canonical take on doing things like that.

Personally, I just expect everything to cross over to AR naturally. Even things that don't.


This is a great article. I've always had a guilty pleasure for L&O, myself.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Transient People posted:

Yeah, gonna vouch for it. Guest Stars are a neat idea in theory, but the practice just doesn't work. You can't make a team gel together with forced cooperation. It just ends up in people halfheartedly doing some poo poo to slot another facet of their characters in when they should be showcasing relationships. I know I've done it before.

My experience in play has been this; whenever a game tells players to tie their character backstory together the biggest effect this has ever had on a game, ever, is to simply elide past the dread specter of "you all meet in a bar."

That's it. That's the big benefit I've seen to guest-starring in FATE. Now I'm all for skipping past introductions and getting to the actual game that everyone's interested in, but I think calling this "one of the best innovations in tabletop gaming" is a bit of a stretch. And as far as tying characters together goes, at no point have I ever been in a game where the guest-starring has given rise to any real meaningful interactions outside of a quick "oh it's you again" at the very beginning of the game which might as well be the shared-backstory version of "Greetings!"

The interactions that players remember, the relationships and rivalries and crazy stories and stuff that they actually care about and have a meaningful impact on how the story develops? All happen in the course of actual play.

I don't loathe guest-starring, it doesn't make me grit my teeth in seething frustration to see it on the page, but I think it's refreshing to see a FATE game just go "make your own characters, worry about shared backgrounds later."

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.
It worked once for me, when the other guy by coincidence made a super-butler character who meshed right with my super-rich-girl, but all the other times it's kind of fallen flat. I'm inclined to agree that the guest stories technique doesn't really do much for the gameplay nor for roleplaying. It doesn't harm anything, but mandating a certain number of aspects depending on others ends up being pretty uninteresting most of the time, doubly so if you do the passing cards thing and who you've guest-starred with is random. The idea of making characters with some shared background is good, but it works if and when it's organic, not because the rules require it.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

TheDemon posted:

It doesn't harm anything, but mandating a certain number of aspects depending on others ends up being pretty uninteresting most of the time, doubly so if you do the passing cards thing and who you've guest-starred with is random.

The first time I ever played Spirit of the Century with a sit-down tabletop group we did this because it sounded so awesome and let me tell you, it was a lot less awesome in practice than it was in our heads.

mikeycp
Nov 24, 2010

I've changed a lot since I started hanging with Sonic, but I can't depend on him forever. I know I can do this by myself! Okay, Eggman! Bring it on!
What kinds of replacements for guest stars are there, preferably not from another book? Would just giving more background or other kinds of aspects work?

Piell
Sep 3, 2006

Grey Worm's Ken doll-like groin throbbed with the anticipatory pleasure that only a slightly warm and moist piece of lemoncake could offer


Young Orc

mikeycp posted:

What kinds of replacements for guest stars are there, preferably not from another book? Would just giving more background or other kinds of aspects work?

Just cut them, 5 Aspects is the sweet spot IMO.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib

Piell posted:

Just cut them, 5 Aspects is the sweet spot IMO.

Yeah, this. More than five aspects and I find that A). I never use all of them and B). I struggle to think of enough solid aspect concepts to fill a list longer than five for any given character.

I'm not sure there really needs to be an alternative to guest-starring as a formal FATE thing, really. "Hey, you all know each other already, figure out how. Or don't. It's cool either way." If players want to do this then they'll kinda do it without the game mandating it, if they don't or aren't feeling it then just letting stuff sort itself out in actual play works just fine.

FrozenGoldfishGod
Oct 29, 2009

JUST LOOK AT THIS SHIT POST!



Kai Tave posted:

Yeah, this. More than five aspects and I find that A). I never use all of them and B). I struggle to think of enough solid aspect concepts to fill a list longer than five for any given character.

I'm not sure there really needs to be an alternative to guest-starring as a formal FATE thing, really. "Hey, you all know each other already, figure out how. Or don't. It's cool either way." If players want to do this then they'll kinda do it without the game mandating it, if they don't or aren't feeling it then just letting stuff sort itself out in actual play works just fine.

Seconding this, especially the bit about five being the sweet spot.

With the Guest Starring Aspects, I've found that they tend to work best when used in a game like the Dresden Files RPG. Since the setting for the DFRPG has as a core tenet of it that the supernatural is hidden from normal life, the Guest Starring Aspects and the process you run through to create them provide you with a reason why you're calling that guy when things get weird - and why he won't just write you off as delusional when you call him up, babbling about werewolves.

Is that the only way to handle this? No. In fact, just saying, "Okay, you guys all know each other, and you all are at least partially clued-in to the fact that the world has some weird stuff going on that doesn't make the news" can work well.

But in a setting where there isn't some vast, setting-wide secret that the PCs are all assumed to be in the know on to one degree or another, then that extra step isn't really necessary.

Kai Tave
Jul 2, 2012
Fallen Rib
Yeah, the default setting of Atomic Robo is one where weird science stuff is out there in the open (mostly) and you can apply for a job in Action Science at Tesladyne Industries. If you're just interested in running a game straight out of the book using the setting as presented (not a terrible assumption in a licensed RPG) then getting everyone on the same page is really just as simple as saying "you all work for Tesladyne doing sciencey stuff, Atomic Robo is currently doing something wayyyyyyyyy over there but you're all over here and Rhode Island has suddenly vanished, go."

Kaja Rainbow
Oct 17, 2012

~Adorable horror~
I honestly feel like the shared history mechanics in Apocalypse and some of its variants do far more elegantly what the Guest Star thing awkwardly tries to do.

Druggeddwarf
Nov 9, 2011

My first attack must ALWAYS be a charge!
God damnit guys you are going to make me pre order atomic robo now.

Transient People
Dec 22, 2011

"When a man thinketh on anything whatsoever, his next thought after is not altogether so casual as it seems to be. Not every thought to every thought succeeds indifferently."
- Thomas Hobbes, Leviathan

mikeycp posted:

What kinds of replacements for guest stars are there, preferably not from another book? Would just giving more background or other kinds of aspects work?

Just poach the DFRPG model, IMO. Background, Rising Action, First Adventure, done. Most players have shittons of trouble summing up an entire character's life in a single Aspect, for very good reasons, but three is a different story altogether. Incidentally, I think seven Aspects is also a good sweet spot, depending on the kind of players you have. Some characters are just too nuanced to write down in five catchy phrases, but seven tends to do the trick for even the most complicated ones.

neonchameleon
Nov 14, 2012



Kai Tave posted:

Yeah, this. More than five aspects and I find that A). I never use all of them and B). I struggle to think of enough solid aspect concepts to fill a list longer than five for any given character.

I'm not sure there really needs to be an alternative to guest-starring as a formal FATE thing, really. "Hey, you all know each other already, figure out how. Or don't. It's cool either way." If players want to do this then they'll kinda do it without the game mandating it, if they don't or aren't feeling it then just letting stuff sort itself out in actual play works just fine.

I think that you're talking about the Spirit of the Century rules here rather than Fate Core. And Spirit of the Century's guest star mechanic was very much a first generation "Hey, we should do something like this." *Drops a big hammer of a mechanic that's clunky in actual play.* As such it was a pretty huge innovation and IMO a great one. But was also very much first generation technology with all the risks of blowing up in your face experimental mechanics have.

The second generation of that approach, the one used by Apocalypse World's Hx or Fate Core is much much better in play but isn't such an innovation. Fate Core's version reads "Describe your character’s first adventure. Describe how you’ve crossed paths with two other characters. Write down one aspect for each of these three experiences." Does most of the same thing. Enough of a hook to work, enough freedom to not fall apart.

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Evil Mastermind
Apr 28, 2008

neonchameleon posted:

I think that you're talking about the Spirit of the Century rules here rather than Fate Core. And Spirit of the Century's guest star mechanic was very much a first generation "Hey, we should do something like this." *Drops a big hammer of a mechanic that's clunky in actual play.* As such it was a pretty huge innovation and IMO a great one. But was also very much first generation technology with all the risks of blowing up in your face experimental mechanics have.

Well, in SotC you had to come up with two aspects per phase, so you had to have two for your story and two for each guest spot. That's on top of your two for high concept and...whatever the second phase was.

SotC was really bad with the "aspect fatigue" thing because you had to come up with 10 character aspects. Believe it or not, Bulldogs is even worse.

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