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WastedJoker posted:Must read up a few more posts before posting, d'oh. I think that little dude looks like a gimp mask with a zippy mouth
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May 22, 2014 22:16
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Ultragonk posted:I went for the Socialist Labour Party. Pity they are anti-nuclear though. Last time I visited scotland (and this is going to be a give-away on just how long ago we're talking) there was a HUGE 'Scotland is NUCLEAR FREE!!' sign at the border, now, granted this was before Faslane was home to the Vanguards, but the sign still seemed to be ignoring Dounreay and Torness (which admittably hadn't been completed), it was a real WTF moment.
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May 22, 2014 22:17
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baka kaba posted:They delivered the worst referendum they could by choosing to form a coalition with the Tories, going with the AV variant that was basically booby trapped from the outset. A once in a lifetime opportunity to get the electoral reform they've been chasing for so long, and they basically punch themselves in the face I used to vote Lib Dem as a single issue thing to try and get some shot at PR and they blew it, nice job guys that was all you were meant to be good for.
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May 22, 2014 22:17
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baka kaba posted:They delivered the worst referendum they could by choosing to form a coalition with the Tories, going with the AV variant that was basically booby trapped from the outset. A once in a lifetime opportunity to get the electoral reform they've been chasing for so long, and they basically punch themselves in the face I honestly think they stopped caring even remotely about politics after realising their one chance was gone and decided to make as much money as possible.
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May 22, 2014 22:19
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Labour Local / Pirate EU I like living dangerously, plus its Wigan so its basically going to be labour until the heat death of the universe.
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May 22, 2014 22:20
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baka kaba posted:They delivered the worst referendum they could by choosing to form a coalition with the Tories, going with the AV variant that was basically booby trapped from the outset. A once in a lifetime opportunity to get the electoral reform they've been chasing for so long, and they basically punch themselves in the face I guess the thinking was 'refuse a coalition, there'll be a quick second election and the tories will get a majority' vs. 'form a coalition and at least we can temper the worst poo poo they come up with'. Clearly he hasn't found himself in a position to do that, whether through incompetence or impotence. Still, I don't think Clegg's a bad bloke, it was just a very poorly judged decision and he'd have done better to sacrifice the little power he has to maintain the integrity of the party. He's obviously now just more or less broken and hovering around Westminster like a ghost. I remember wondering why they didn't form a coalition with Labour? Technically there'd have been nothing stopping them though I imagine the response to such a partnership would have been vicious, seeing as the tories did have the moral victory (i.e. the most seats).
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May 22, 2014 22:26
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Zephro posted:You could spend a hundredth of the money for ten times the benefit with a universal service obligation for broadband, though :/ "He needs body armour not a revised voting system"
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May 22, 2014 22:27
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The disconnect between people's reaction to casual, subtle and otherwise disguised racism, and their reaction to similar homophobia or misogyny really bloody confuses me. I don't have an opinion on whether the gimp stuff is homophobia, but there have been an awful lot of 'hah, gay therefore bad' jokes about Cameron and Clegg, including by supposedly left-wing people, that's gone completely un-challenged.
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May 22, 2014 22:31
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Kin posted:Dundonians I've lived in Dundee for 5 years and I don't think I've ever met a Dundonian. Just students and former students who couldn't escape the black hole. People back home ask me how I manage to understand the accent and I say I don't know, because I understand Edinburgh/Glasgow people just fine.
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May 22, 2014 22:33
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ThomasPaine posted:I guess the thinking was 'refuse a coalition, there'll be a quick second election and the tories will get a majority' vs. 'form a coalition and at least we can temper the worst poo poo they come up with'. Clearly he hasn't found himself in a position to do that, whether through incompetence or impotence. Still, I don't think Clegg's a bad bloke, it was just a very poorly judged decision and he'd have done better to sacrifice the little power he has to maintain the integrity of the party. He's obviously now just more or less broken and hovering around Westminster like a ghost. It was basically the fact that the numbers wouldn't add up without involving the DUP (and Labour were actually backchannelling with them during the negotiations) and was liable to collapse at any point because of the inherent problems with having a coalition of "everyone but the Tories" that has a working majority of 20. And believe me, we wouldn't have even got rid of the gay blood ban with Peter Robinson anywhere near the Cabinet table, let alone same-sex marriage.
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May 22, 2014 22:34
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Alecto posted:The disconnect between people's reaction to casual, subtle and otherwise disguised racism, and their reaction to similar homophobia or misogyny really bloody confuses me. I don't have an opinion on whether the gimp stuff is homophobia, but there have been an awful lot of 'hah, gay therefore bad' jokes about Cameron and Clegg, including by supposedly left-wing people, that's gone completely un-challenged. And as I said, some of this has even come from members of LGBT Labour. You know, the ones in perpetual outrage over Bermondsey (while completely overlooking any homophobia from the NEC-backed John O'Grady campaign).
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May 22, 2014 22:37
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TinTower posted:And believe me, we wouldn't have even got rid of the gay blood ban with Peter Robinson anywhere near the Cabinet table, let alone same-sex marriage. I have no idea why you bring this up, given Labour would have been less likely to utterly gently caress up a PR referendum as part of the deal, and in four years we'd have a situation where we can actually attempt to force through human rights measures without relying on the benevolence and best wishes of David loving Cameron. Australia has recognised nondescript/third gender. Australia. America has a black president. Our terrible system is really starting to hold us back in pretty much any entrenched area that doesn't have mainstream political will behind it.
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May 22, 2014 22:39
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Why the bloody gently caress has Farage tweeted a big picture saying 'thanks'. Has he stormed Parliament or has just retired to his Dalmatian coast villa?
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May 22, 2014 22:46
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ThomasPaine posted:I guess the thinking was 'refuse a coalition, there'll be a quick second election and the tories will get a majority' vs. 'form a coalition and at least we can temper the worst poo poo they come up with'. Clearly he hasn't found himself in a position to do that, whether through incompetence or impotence. Still, I don't think Clegg's a bad bloke, it was just a very poorly judged decision and he'd have done better to sacrifice the little power he has to maintain the integrity of the party. He's obviously now just more or less broken and hovering around Westminster like a ghost. Well that's the thing, they could have formed a coalition with Labour, which would have given them a more robust system to offer (without all the built-in 'nobody uses this version and it's poo poo' caveats), and would probably have resulted in a more unified campaign - Labour was split on AV and there's no guarantee they wouldn't have tactically pushed against it if they were in power, but there's at least the chance, unlike the Tories who were outright hostile to it from the outset. In the end they spun it as 'oh the Tories got the most votes so it wouldn't be fair for us to put Labour in power' - like, you know, the way coalition governments are actually formed in systems where smaller parties can actually win seats. It's like they got a taste of a world where they had what they always wanted and it was too much pressure. Arguably the Lib Dems were politically closer to Labour anyway, but even if the Orange Book was king and they decided they were a better fit with the Tories, they were throwing away a huge strategic chance to change the game forever. It just seems like they got to a position of influence and thought 'you know what, never mind, we can be the third party and prove ourselves within the system'. And now they're ruined 
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May 22, 2014 22:50
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Trickjaw posted:Why the bloody gently caress has Farage tweeted a big picture saying 'thanks'. Has he stormed Parliament or has just retired to his Dalmatian coast villa? Maybe he's expressing gratitude to the millions of people who voted for his party today.
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May 22, 2014 22:51
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LemonDrizzle posted:Maybe he's expressing gratitude to the millions of people who voted for his party today. Slick. I meant the polls only closed at 22.00, and I hasn't heard of any 'earthquakes' just yet.
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May 22, 2014 22:53
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Seems UKIP crazies are already going full conspiracy-nutter about the pencils and 'it's a sign that they're stealing are votes!!'
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May 22, 2014 22:55
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Bozza posted:Seb, when's your band back in Reading again dude? No idea right now, we've had some downtime due to Stu's first child being born, but we're cracking on with album stuff now and starting to book some shows again. Probably no earlier than July/August, but I'll let you know.
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May 22, 2014 22:56
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SybilVimes posted:Seems UKIP crazies are already going full conspiracy-nutter about the pencils and 'it's a sign that they're stealing are votes!!' Um. Excuse me?
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May 22, 2014 22:58
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Broniki posted:I've lived in Dundee for 5 years and I don't think I've ever met a Dundonian. Just students and former students who couldn't escape the black hole. Cross over to the other side of the kingsway. It's been protecting you from most of them for years.
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May 22, 2014 23:00
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gently caress I just looked at the results for the 2010 election on a whim and I've only just noticed how screwed the British political system is. The Tories get 306 seats with 36.1% of the vote while the Lib Dems get only 57 with 23%? Christ FPTP is a joke.
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May 22, 2014 23:01
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Kin posted:Cross over to the other side of the kingsway. It's been protecting you from most of them for years. Living beside Pitkerro and Whitfield in my first year at uni was the best experience I've ever had. Most break ins I've ever had too.
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May 22, 2014 23:02
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ThomasPaine posted:gently caress I just looked at the results for the 2010 election on a whim and I've only just noticed how screwed the British political system is. The Tories get 306 seats with 36.1% of the vote while the Lib Dems get only 57 with 23%? Christ FPTP is a joke. Now now, we had a perfectly democratic referendum on whether to change and the Great British Public voted No. Are we so wise that we can contradict them? Yes
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May 22, 2014 23:03
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Cerv posted:
So was Eurostar.
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May 22, 2014 23:05
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hs2 is proposed to go to newcastle, glasgow & edinburgh
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Spangly A posted:I have no idea why you bring this up, given Labour would have been less likely to utterly gently caress up a PR referendum as part of the deal, and in four years we'd have a situation where we can actually attempt to force through human rights measures without relying on the benevolence and best wishes of David loving Cameron. Labour would've wanted AV+, which is a complete dogshit of a system rigged towards giving them permanent majorities (as the MMP system has done in the Welsh Assembly, and was designed to do so in the Scottish Parliament). One of the things I have to commend Cameron (and May) on is risking open revolt in his party on the issue of LGBT rights. Labour were too chicken poo poo on LGBT rights in majority and wouldn't have even considered it if either Peter Robinson or Stonewall said no.
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May 22, 2014 23:05
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Cancelbot posted:Labour Local / Pirate EU I know the NW England Pirate candidate. Lovely bloke but I can't vote for them because they are SO libertarian.
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May 22, 2014 23:06
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SybilVimes posted:Seems UKIP crazies are already going full conspiracy-nutter about the pencils and 'it's a sign that they're stealing are votes!!' ugh, those Muslim Romanians are stealing our jobs, our children, our women (they signed the marriage contract, they're ours), our beer and tabs, and now our votes edit: ThomasPaine posted:gently caress I just looked at the results for the 2010 election on a whim and I've only just noticed how screwed the British political system is. The Tories get 306 seats with 36.1% of the vote while the Lib Dems get only 57 with 23%? Christ FPTP is a joke. My decision theory lecturer at uni was Belgian, and he refused to believe we used FPTP. He claimed not to have even heard of it. When we explained it to him he said, "What? There's a name for that? So you don't even bother with preferences or weighting? Well, that's fine if it's a few of you deciding what to have for dinner or something, not for a government." Stottie Kyek fucked around with this message at 23:12 on May 22, 2014 |
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May 22, 2014 23:09
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ThomasPaine posted:gently caress I just looked at the results for the 2010 election on a whim and I've only just noticed how screwed the British political system is. The Tories get 306 seats with 36.1% of the vote while the Lib Dems get only 57 with 23%? Christ FPTP is a joke. 
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May 22, 2014 23:11
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LemonDrizzle posted:Results won't be released until Sunday. The votes won't even be counted until Sunday, so it's not like we're holding back results until everyone else is done.
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May 22, 2014 23:13
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Pissflaps posted:Who I voted for is between me and the booth. Tory voter spotted.
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May 22, 2014 23:13
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ThomasPaine posted:gently caress I just looked at the results for the 2010 election on a whim and I've only just noticed how screwed the British political system is. The Tories get 306 seats with 36.1% of the vote while the Lib Dems get only 57 with 23%? Christ FPTP is a joke. If you think that is bad check out 1983  The spoiler effect is an amazing thing 
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May 22, 2014 23:13
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twoot posted:If you think that is bad check out 1983 jesus gently caress
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May 22, 2014 23:16
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Trickjaw posted:Why the bloody gently caress has Farage tweeted a big picture saying 'thanks'. Has he stormed Parliament or has just retired to his Dalmatian coast villa? Prepare for the worst 
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May 22, 2014 23:16
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Mister Adequate posted:Now now, we had a perfectly democratic referendum on whether to change and the Great British Public voted No. Are we so wise that we can contradict them? Was it actually necessary to have a referendum? Seems that referenda are a uniquely poo poo way of deciding anything with any complexity or nuance. The side with the easier to soundbite position has a massive advantage considering that almost no one actually researches a position.
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May 22, 2014 23:21
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That looks more like Miliband. Also nobody picked Jeremy Hunt for Health secretary, Chris Grayling for Justice, Theresa May for the Home Office, Gove for Education or IDS for the DWP except Cameron. Nobody else would.
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May 22, 2014 23:21
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TinTower posted:One of the things I have to commend Cameron (and May) on is risking open revolt in his party on the issue of LGBT rights. Labour were too chicken poo poo on LGBT rights in majority and wouldn't have even considered it if either Peter Robinson or Stonewall said no. Hmmmmmm. I'd be more inclined to say that Cameron promised to follow Blair's liberalism, but that his economic reforms were making the Conservatives seem like the nasty party again. So, he chose an issue that had broad popular support, a 'nice' policy, to pass that would cause the least problem with his party. I'm not sure that he correctly identified how much trouble gay marriage was going to cause, but given his vote of dissent on the repeal of Section 28, I find his moral conviction on the matter dubious.
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May 22, 2014 23:24
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baka kaba posted:Well that's the thing, they could have formed a coalition with Labour, which would have given them a more robust system to offer (without all the built-in 'nobody uses this version and it's poo poo' caveats), and would probably have resulted in a more unified campaign - Labour was split on AV and there's no guarantee they wouldn't have tactically pushed against it if they were in power, but there's at least the chance, unlike the Tories who were outright hostile to it from the outset. We won't know the whole story until the inevitable tell-all books come out in a couple of years, but interviews at the time gave the strong impression that Labour's negotiating team was just poo poo. They came in from a position of arrogance; they assumed that there was no possible way the Lib Dems would ally with the Tories, so they didn't feel the need to offer anything. The Tory negotiating team, on the other hand, were way more practical; they came to the Lib Dems in an open and friendly way that surprised everyone, saying "we can offer you a load of things you've always wanted, and we're willing to negotiate for more". It seems likely that their openness and respectful attitude did a lot to sway the Lib Dem leadership at the time; they were being treated like a real party, not just as a way to hit the magic 326 seats. Ultimately, of course, the Lib Dems were conned and taken for granted. But they can take solace in the fact that they were conned by professionals.
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May 22, 2014 23:33
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Alecto posted:Hmmmmmm. I'd be more inclined to say that Cameron promised to follow Blair's liberalism, but that his economic reforms were making the Conservatives seem like the nasty party again. So, he chose an issue that had broad popular support, a 'nice' policy, to pass that would cause the least problem with his party. I'm not sure that he correctly identified how much trouble gay marriage was going to cause, but given his vote of dissent on the repeal of Section 28, I find his moral conviction on the matter dubious. There's no way in heck that Cameron would have thought out of all the things he could do, gay marriage would cause the least problem with his party. It also didn't have broad popular support - 50% to 60% in various surveys in the run up to the legislation being introduced, dropping massively amongst older people. The average age of the Conservative Party member is in the 60s. The Conservative's changes to benefits have broad support amongst the general public. Here and here (warning: IDS). The narrative that people shouldn't receive benefits worth more than the average salary chimes with the average voter. If anything, it was introduced because it was probably neutral from an Government spending point of view, and between that, AV and calls for Lords Reform, the Coalition at the time seemed to be on a drive for a programme of long lasting constitutional changes. Probably cos they had bugger all money and had canned all the infrastructure projects, so sod all else to do.
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May 22, 2014 23:37
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Alecto posted:Hmmmmmm. I'd be more inclined to say that Cameron promised to follow Blair's liberalism, but that his economic reforms were making the Conservatives seem like the nasty party again. So, he chose an issue that had broad popular support, a 'nice' policy, to pass that would cause the least problem with his party. I'm not sure that he correctly identified how much trouble gay marriage was going to cause, but given his vote of dissent on the repeal of Section 28, I find his moral conviction on the matter dubious. Section 28 was a vindictive and nasty piece of legislation, and the repeal was not easy. Dismissing the repeal as nothing significant is silly, not that you were.
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May 22, 2014 23:37
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Trickjaw posted:Um. Excuse me? A lot of UKippers on twitter are claiming that the fact that pencils were provided means that 'The powers that be' are erasing their votes and rewriting them without UKIP votes (well, were, they were urging people to take pens so that they could 'vote and be sure that your vote isn't changed') And no, I don't know why TPTB wouldn't just throw the votes away and go 'ukip votes? what ukip votes?' rather than going to the effort of altering votes, conspiracy logic doesn't make sense that way
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May 22, 2014 23:41
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