|
Considering the full tableau of human reactions, emotions, and how people are in general (selfish and basically assholes en mass), nothing surprises me about people react to situations. Sometimes it's good. Sometimes it's pretty awful. For every mother who lifts a car off her kid there's another who bitches because her kid won't shut up cause it's hungry and she can't play candy crush in peace. I live through this kinda poo poo on a semi yearly basis because I am in La and basically the entire state gets clusterfucked when there's a hurricane. We have people who help each other out, we have people who decide to loot. There's no set way for anyone to react to anything. Libertarian RAH RAH GUN POWER AUGH novels are just as likely to take place as a teamwork based solution. A decent zombie-ish novel series that handles both ends of the spectrum would be Rig and Terminus. There are characters that handle being part of a team and working together, and there are characters that are complete shitheels who grab what they can and run off. Decent books, worth at least a read. Humanity has the potential for greatness, but we also have the potential for horrible things. Look at all the poo poo that happened in WW2. That covers both ends of the poo poo spectrum, and it's not fiction.
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 15:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 11:26 |
|
|
Fried Chicken posted:Counterpoint: Somalia It's why I made a throwaway comment rather than fleshing it out, but the country has for real pirates and no government to speak of. South Africa is another place that has gotten quite lovely. Roving rape gangs in parts of joburg for example. Anyone remember the horror stories out of Rwanda? There were also good stories, but my point is that I think people have all sorts of capacity for shiftiness when the rule of law breaks down.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 17:43
|
|
|
holocaust bloopers posted:Hhmmm alright. So I like Game Of Thrones. Haven't read the books, but am caught up on the show. What fantasy series is up there with GoT that would be worth reading? No interest in reading the Game of Thrones books themselves? I understand just sticking to the TV show, but the show necessarily edits out big chunks of the novels and you might enjoy reading the novels and seeing how much gets changed between the show and the books, for better or worse. Otherwise, I'm surprised nobody immediately recommended Joe Abercrombie's First Law trilogy (The Blade Itself, Before they are Hanged, Last Argument of Kings). I think the tone is pretty close to GoT and it's what I usually recommend to friends who are looking for something 'like GoT' as you are, and it's also what I often see goons here recommend as well. I don't think it's as good as GoT, but it's up there, particularly if you enjoy the trilogy and go onto a couple post stand-alone (Best Served Cold, The Heroes), if you finish the trilogy. Personally what I like to recommend to friends who want a good fantasy novel but not interested in getting into a big series is to read Scott Lynch's The Lies of Locke Lamora. It's a heist novel set in a fantasy Italian Renaissance city, and it's a self contained, stand-alone novel pretty much. Doesn't end on any cliffhanger and the teases for subsequent novels aren't a big deal.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 18:22
|
|
|
Does The Magicians by Lev Grossman ever get good? I bought the audiobook thanks to the Harry Potter reminisce thread being all "it's like Harry Potter but for adults!" before a bunch of "uhhh it's not really like Harry Potter" post showed up, and I have to agree. There's no one likable and too freaking weird, and not in a good way.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 18:58
|
|
|
PlushCow posted:No interest in reading the Game of Thrones books themselves? I understand just sticking to the TV show, but the show necessarily edits out big chunks of the novels and you might enjoy reading the novels and seeing how much gets changed between the show and the books, for better or worse. Not right now. I've watched GoT Seasons 1-3 twice and am probably going to re-watch season 4 once it concludes. I'm gonna need a breather before jumping back into the series in book form. Thanks for the suggestions, though. I'll add them to my Amazon list.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 19:01
|
|
|
Kraps posted:Does The Magicians by Lev Grossman ever get good? I bought the audiobook thanks to the Harry Potter reminisce thread being all "it's like Harry Potter but for adults!" before a bunch of "uhhh it's not really like Harry Potter" post showed up, and I have to agree. There's no one likable and too freaking weird, and not in a good way. Where are you at? Later on I'd say it's more like a grown-up Chronicles of Narnia but it takes a while to get there.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 19:02
|
|
|
Kraps posted:Does The Magicians by Lev Grossman ever get good? I bought the audiobook thanks to the Harry Potter reminisce thread being all "it's like Harry Potter but for adults!" before a bunch of "uhhh it's not really like Harry Potter" post showed up, and I have to agree. There's no one likable and too freaking weird, and not in a good way. It's about ennui among the powerful/upper class. If that doesn't float your boat, you're not going to like it.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 19:09
|
|
|
Seldom Posts posted:It's about ennui among the powerful/upper class. If that doesn't float your boat, you're not going to like it. So it's like F. Scott Fitzgerald but with wizards? That sounds pretty sweet, actually.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 19:12
|
|
|
Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Humanity has the potential for greatness, but we also have the potential for horrible things. Look at all the poo poo that happened in WW2. That covers both ends of the poo poo spectrum, and it's not fiction. WWII also covers the human greatness end of the spectrum, not just the poo poo ends of it, and that's what me and Zola have been talking about, the fact that people completely forget about that and just focus on the poo poo because they think books about people being total poo poo is more realistic due to Mean World Syndrome. Writers who lived through war packed their novels with more nuance because they witnessed the full spectrum of human behavior from extreme shittiness to extreme kindness. Out of them, perhaps Orwell's are the most negative, because he was writing science fiction allegories as a warning to future generations, so they had to be. Also, I am so loving sick of zombies.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 19:15
|
|
|
Seldom Posts posted:It's about ennui among the powerful/upper class. If that doesn't float your boat, you're not going to like it. Seconding this and adding that if you want a likeable character, you're reading the wrong book.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 19:26
|
|
|
CaptCommy posted:Probably veering off topic, but that Black Death book sounds interesting. Got a title/link? Azathoth is possibly referring to Robert Gottfried's book, which is good but I liked Philip Ziegler's better (despite it being briefer and wider in scope). Both are named The Black Death but Gottfried's has a subtitle that I can't remember right now. Edit: Frankly, for a social/familial perspective on the plague, Connie Willis' Doomsday Book is excellent despite being fiction -- and it is also a ripping good yarn. One of the rare books I recommend to everyone. mdemone fucked around with this message at 21:14 on May 23, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 21:10
|
|
|
mdemone posted:Edit: Frankly, for a social/familial perspective on the plague, Connie Willis' Doomsday Book is excellent despite being fiction -- and it is also a ripping good yarn. One of the rare books I recommend to everyone. I've been meaning to give Connie Willis another go after being disappointed with To Say Nothing of the Dog (I should have maybe not read Three Men in a Boat by Jerome K. Jerome immediately beforehand, because it made Willis' references to it seem over-obvious and hamfisted), and Doomsday Book sounds like a good one to try. Thanks for reminding me.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 21:53
|
|
|
Stuporstar posted:I've been meaning to give Connie Willis another go after being disappointed with To Say Nothing of the Dog (I should have maybe not read Three Men in a Boat by Jerome K. Jerome immediately beforehand, because it made Willis' references to it seem over-obvious and hamfisted), and Doomsday Book sounds like a good one to try. Thanks for reminding me. I've never been able to get into Dog despite repeated efforts, but have really enjoyed the other Oxford time-travel novels and Doomsday is the best one, although I also found Blackout and All Clear very compelling.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 22:11
|
|
|
Stuporstar posted:WWII also covers the human greatness end of the spectrum, not just the poo poo ends of it, and that's what me and Zola have been talking about, the fact that people completely forget about that and just focus on the poo poo because they think books about people being total poo poo is more realistic due to Mean World Syndrome. Writers who lived through war packed their novels with more nuance because they witnessed the full spectrum of human behavior from extreme shittiness to extreme kindness. Out of them, perhaps Orwell's are the most negative, because he was writing science fiction allegories as a warning to future generations, so they had to be. I meant both ends of the poo poo spectrum, with one end being great and wonderful, and the other end being, you know, poo poo. We did great things in WW2. We did horrible things in WW2. Humanity can be awesome, but we can also be gigantic asshats as well.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 22:18
|
|
|
Kraps posted:Does The Magicians by Lev Grossman ever get good? I bought the audiobook thanks to the Harry Potter reminisce thread being all "it's like Harry Potter but for adults!" before a bunch of "uhhh it's not really like Harry Potter" post showed up, and I have to agree. There's no one likable and too freaking weird, and not in a good way. My general impression of Magicians has always been that it's a childish gently caress's hissy fit toward a genre he really doesn't like. Which is why I've often wondered why he chose to write in it to begin with.
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 23:36
|
|
|
Why should it matter if an author likes a genre or not when writing in it? (Also it's not what you described at all, plus Grossman does like Fantasy)
|
|
#
?
May 23, 2014 23:46
|
|
|
Srice posted:Why should it matter if an author likes a genre or not when writing in it? Because that's a lot of time and work to sink into something out of pure spitefulness. And no, book pretty much read entirely to me as one long potshot against Harry Potter and more "traditional" fantasy - hence the need to Extreme poo poo Up along with his CS Lewis standin being a pedophile. Book was pretty much Standard Cynical Fantasy to me, honestly. Which is probably why it gets recommended as much as it does.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 00:07
|
|
|
I read it as more of a cynical take on life itself. I mean, we have a dude who's in some elite classes in high school. He's bored of it, he thinks life will get better once he's done with that. Then hooray, he gets enrolled in a magical school! But that's also boring because it's broken down like a science, with a lot of memorization and whatnot. And then he thinks that after he graduates he'll finally find some meaning, but nope. Turns out most wizards post-graduation are more or less hella depressed since they have everything in the world and nothing to challenge them, and they just do petty poo poo, and lead shallow lives. I wasn't a big fan of the stuff after that, but I still appreciate those parts of the book. That stuff just comes off as completely fascinating to me, and considering the Narnia parallels throughout the story I really don't think he hates fantasy (especially since he has talked about other fantasy in interviews). But heck, even if he did, I see zero problems with that. I love hearing different perspectives on subjects, even if I don't agree with them.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 00:12
|
|
|
Just to be clear I'm not saying that reading is wrong or anything. I can very much see it myself. What I'm mentioning is just something that stuck out to me more. But in fairness I was also going to be biased against the book from the get-go: I don't care for cynicism in general, and I also couldn't help but read the book as a potshot toward people who use the genre for occasional escapism by telling people they'd be miserable no matter what because that's what life is.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 00:21
|
|
|
That is fair enough! It's also a legit reading since we have a protagonist who constantly yearns for escapism, yet keeps finding it unfulfilling.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 00:28
|
|
|
Eh, I just thought it was boring because other than the apple guy showing up, sweet gently caress all happens for about 98% of the book. Also, weird furry sex. Never a good thing in a book. Ever. There are NO exceptions to this rule.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 01:43
|
|
|
Still excited for The Magician's Land.  (I did really like The Magicians and The Magician King, though).
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 02:27
|
|
|
Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:I meant both ends of the poo poo spectrum, with one end being great and wonderful, and the other end being, you know, poo poo. Oh, in my complaints about the book, don't think I wasn't saying that there wouldn't be people who did horrible things. It was the passivity and assumed "sheepleness" of the general population that I thought was BS. Realistically speaking, even in a neighborhood where folks tend to keep to themselves, if something dreadful happens, they talk to each other, if only to try to get a sense of what is going on. Years ago, when hurricane Bob struck, half the neighborhood went over to my next-door neighbor's house because a tree had fallen on it. Fortunately, everyone was okay and the house wasn't damaged, and the tree was immediately removed by all of us to prevent further problems. We got the tree out of the road too. Everyone would wander out periodically to see if there was any news. Everyone accounted for everyone. In this more rural area, we've had trees come down and block the road that didn't require any call to emergency services, just a couple of neighbors with chainsaws and some willing hands. After one windstorm, my elderly neighbor and I stationed ourselves at either end of the road and stopped traffic while others cut and removed the tree blocking the road. Same thing after the derecho did so much damage. There was an enormous tree across the road that almost killed a family in a van. The emergency vehicles arrived, as did a number of people with chain saws. A bunch of folk from nearby houses and waiting cars pitched in to move the trunk that was too big to be cut up without specialized equipment. Here's a pic for your entertainment:  . Over the five days without power, everyone made sure the neighbors were okay. Everyone spent some time chatting. Everyone made sure everyone else had food and water. I would surely not sit there in my house, not talk to anyone, and permit children to starve, and while I don't think it's unrealistic to say a couple of people might do just that, I find it highly unlikely that everyone in the neighborhood would be that heartless. I don't think they'd show up at the marina and talk about how they were entitled to stuff, either. I definitely prefer a more nuanced view of how humans act as opposed to horrid people as foils to make our libertarian superheroes look so much better than they actually are. I find myself wondering at how miserable people must be who really believe that all other people are that awful.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 02:50
|
|
|
mdemone posted:Azathoth is possibly referring to Robert Gottfried's book, which is good but I liked Philip Ziegler's better (despite it being briefer and wider in scope). Both are named The Black Death but Gottfried's has a subtitle that I can't remember right now. Also, to bring this around more to the topic of the thread, does anyone have any recommendations for fantasy books where a plague actually plays a major role? It seems like disease plays a huge role in ancient history, but it seems to be conspicuously absent from every fantasy book I've ever read.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 02:56
|
|
|
Azathoth posted:Actually, the one that I read is called The Great Mortality: An Intimate History of the Black Death, The Most Devastating Plague Of All Time by John Kelly, but thank you for the additional recommendations. The reason that I read it is that I read it is that I'd just read a couple "WHOLE WORLD COLLAPSES" books, and I was more than a little curious how people reacted historically when presented with, quite frankly, what must have felt like the end of the world. Well, there's always The Stand by Stephen King, or I am Legend by Richard Matheson. There's a short list on Wikipedia, I have Emergence (David Palmer) and that's pretty good. Mira Grant's Newsflesh Trilogy is fairly decent, I don't really like zombie stories but it was well written and was interesting. That's all I can think of off the top of my head though.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 03:55
|
|
|
Snuffman posted:Still excited for The Magician's Land. Huh, I didn't even know it was going to have a third book, but I guess that was silly of me. It's fantasy, after all. I liked where the first book ended so much that I haven't read The Magician King because of it. I just felt like adding anything more to the story would make it feel superfluous.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 04:05
|
|
|
Azathoth posted:Also, to bring this around more to the topic of the thread, does anyone have any recommendations for fantasy books where a plague actually plays a major role? It seems like disease plays a huge role in ancient history, but it seems to be conspicuously absent from every fantasy book I've ever read. I don't think even the most charitable reader would call it fantasy (although you could maybe squint and pull the "magical realism" card), but Camus' The Plague might be right up your alley. It's a novel about a small Algerian town in the 1950's that gets quarantined suddenly when a horrific outbreak of the Black Plague breaks out. There's a lot in it about philosophy and existentialism, but even if you ignore that it's still a drat good book about a bunch of people forced to huddle together and struggle as people drop dead all around them - and that's pretty much what every good plague/zombie novel is all about.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 05:06
|
|
|
I would like to read about humans on an alien planet that have to establish settlements and deal with the native flora and fauna. Bonus points for abandoned ruins and/or alien technology. Can anyone recommend anything like that?
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 06:45
|
|
|
There's some of that in Heinlein's Time Enough for Love and Methuselah's Children but I wouldn't say it's a major theme.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 06:49
|
|
|
Sekret posted:I would like to read about humans on an alien planet that have to establish settlements and deal with the native flora and fauna. Bonus points for abandoned ruins and/or alien technology. Can anyone recommend anything like that? Eh. Fragment by Warran Fahy is sort of like that. Not really exoplanetary, but biologists discover an island where everything has evolved in it's own way for something like 60 million years and bad poo poo occurs when they try to leave. Annihilation by Jeff Vandemeer? is also sort of like that. Area X is in africa? I think, and it's crazy poo poo going on in there, and the last team to go in got infected, so something like 10 years later they get a new team to roll in and see what's up. If you like the lovecraftian vibe some stories have, check out David Conyers. The Harrison Peel files are a set of short stories, and basically some take place off planet, some take place on planet but in areas where crazy poo poo has occurred and the world isn't like it should be. Some involve crazy weird rear end tech that the old ones left behind and poo poo goes incredibly wrong. The Swarm series is sort of military fiction sci fi, but basically some of the books take place on various planets where poo poo tries to kill and eat the soldiers. There are a few more I'm trying to remember, but I'm drawing a blank on the specifics...
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 06:57
|
|
|
Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Annihilation by Jeff Vandemeer? is also sort of like that. Area X is in africa? I think, and it's crazy poo poo going on in there, and the last team to go in got infected, so something like 10 years later they get a new team to roll in and see what's up. Area X is specifically in northern Florida.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 07:59
|
|
|
I didn't think GoT and the First Law trilogy were all that similar honestly. If I had known how the latter was going to end I wouldn't have even bothered reading them.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 08:24
|
|
|
Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Eh, I just thought it was boring because other than the apple guy showing up, sweet gently caress all happens for about 98% of the book. The entire Fillory section of the book, which is at least the final quarter, is lots of stuff happening. It's loving great. Lev Grossman is pretty much a 100% confirmed furry though, no arguments there. Or complaints  Sekret posted:I would like to read about humans on an alien planet that have to establish settlements and deal with the native flora and fauna. Bonus points for abandoned ruins and/or alien technology. Can anyone recommend anything like that? I recently read City of Pearl by Karen Traviss, which was quite good, apart from the militant veganism message. It's about humans settling on a planet occupied by not one but three intelligent races, and how they have to learn to co-exist with the bizarre biology of the planet, and how things go wrong when some people don't obey the rules. There's like 5 more books in the series which I haven't read but are meant to be good too.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 08:26
|
|
|
Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Eh. Fragment by Warran Fahy is sort of like that. Not really exoplanetary, but biologists discover an island where everything has evolved in it's own way for something like 60 million years and bad poo poo occurs when they try to leave. It's a by-the-numbers airport book dedicated to the premise that mantis shrimp are loving amazing. Pretty readable.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 08:27
|
|
|
Sekret posted:I would like to read about humans on an alien planet that have to establish settlements and deal with the native flora and fauna. Bonus points for abandoned ruins and/or alien technology. Can anyone recommend anything like that? Deathworld series by Harry Harrison!
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 12:14
|
|
|
Oh, look. 100 posts in this thread, there must be an exciting book discussion going on. Oh.....  Cant' we just have a loving thread that deals with the opinions of homophobic/racist/libertarian/communist authors and not pollute this thread with it. Sekret posted:I would like to read about humans on an alien planet that have to establish settlements and deal with the native flora and fauna. Bonus points for abandoned ruins and/or alien technology. Can anyone recommend anything like that? The Skinner by Neal Asher, which have everything of that. Well, everything is settled in the beginning though, plus aliens show up. Come to think of it, Line of Polity also by Asher is a good recommendation.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 12:27
|
|
|
Cardiac posted:Oh, look. 100 posts in this thread, there must be an exciting book discussion going on. I am sick to death of hearing this poo poo. The Hugo situation is one of the biggest topics in science fiction right now: everyone even tangentially involved (and probably some of your favorite authors) have spent tens of thousands of words hashing the issue out over the last few weeks. How is that not a proper topic of discussion for the Science Fiction and Fantasy discussion Thread? I can't believe you're suggesting we add another thread (why, so the front page of the Book Barn can by 97% sf/f threads instead of 95%?) so that you don't have to think about the actual people who write escapist genre fiction.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 14:08
|
|
|
Sekret posted:I would like to read about humans on an alien planet that have to establish settlements and deal with the native flora and fauna. Bonus points for abandoned ruins and/or alien technology. Can anyone recommend anything like that? Go check out Broken Angels by Richard Morgan. It's all about humans on Mars investigating old technology and trying to figure out what happened. It's got a heaping helping of mil-sf and (but?) also a pretty great main character. Technically it comes after Altered Carbon but it stands alone perfectly fine.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 15:05
|
|
|
mllaneza posted:It's a by-the-numbers airport book dedicated to the premise that mantis shrimp are loving amazing. Pretty readable. I think there's a sequel to it as well called Pandemic. The first one creeped me the gently caress out though. Those little ant ferris wheel things were just... aauugugghhhh!!!!
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 15:08
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 11, 2024 11:26 |
|
|
Popular Human posted:I am sick to death of hearing this poo poo. The Hugo situation is one of the biggest topics in science fiction right now: everyone even tangentially involved (and probably some of your favorite authors) have spent tens of thousands of words hashing the issue out over the last few weeks. How is that not a proper topic of discussion for the Science Fiction and Fantasy discussion Thread? I can't believe you're suggesting we add another thread (why, so the front page of the Book Barn can by 97% sf/f threads instead of 95%?) so that you don't have to think about the actual people who write escapist genre fiction. Would a separate thread even "contain" said discussion? I mean heck, we have a recommendation thread but that doesn't stop people from using this thread as one. I think the smaller news would remain in such a thread but the big stuff would probably leak out.
|
|
#
?
May 24, 2014 15:21
|
|