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there's, uh, a reason for the transplantation of a certain brand of british culture to singapore
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May 24, 2014 20:18
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I know, we've joked about it. I just think it's funny. And he's not culturally British in the least, so I don't know if you can invoke that as an 'explanation' (it doesn't need an explanation because the stereotype is nonsense).
Peel fucked around with this message at 20:26 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 20:23
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It is a longstanding historical thing: 
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May 24, 2014 20:35
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SybilVimes posted:(and technically, it could be argued that all Irish are british still). Go on then, I dare you.
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May 24, 2014 21:10
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HortonNash posted:One day after being elected, a UKIP councillor faces expulsion over racist and homophobic comments...
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May 24, 2014 21:17
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cormac posted:Go on then, I dare you. We're from the British Isles ergo we're British. There, not hard, was it? I don't agree and that analyses will incur all kinds of non-geography-based unhappiness due to the implications of being called "British", but it is factually true.
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May 24, 2014 21:38
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Mister Adequate posted:We're from the British Isles ergo we're British. Edit: Canadians, Mexicans, Guatamalans, Brazilians and Peruvians etc. are from the Americas therefore they are American. cormac fucked around with this message at 21:48 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 21:45
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Radio Prune posted:What is a "third generation immigrant"? That phrase is gross nationalist BS used to insinuate that someone born in a country is still "foreign". I'm as white and british as they come but my grandparents are from the RoI. Does this make me a "third generation immigrant"? Wait, I've always considered myself first generation as my father came to Britain in 1959, have I been counting wrong..am I actually second generation? As for the actually being "nth generation immigrant", I quite like it when it comes up (which it almost never does), and I expect that everyone living in these hallowed Isles is an nth generation immigrant for varying values of n, the lower the number the more powerful the magic, of course. And remember, in the end, there can be only one.
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May 24, 2014 21:48
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Yeah I've always taken first generation immigrant to mean the one who actually did the immigrating. Which would make you second generation if you were born here.
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May 24, 2014 21:52
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cormac posted:Go on then, I dare you. It is technically correct that they're British in the sense that Ireland is part of the British isles, regardless of the fact that it's a politically loaded term and few in the south/many in the north wouldn't consider themselves such. e: Yes, first generation immigrant is the person who moved to a place, second generation is their kids, and so on. Unless the kids were born before the move and came with the parent, in which case they'd be first generation immigrants too. You must actually get situations where siblings are first generation immigrants while their brothers/sisters aren't, which I'm sure is a constant source of teasing in some families. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 22:24 on May 24, 2014 |
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May 24, 2014 22:19
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ThomasPaine posted:It is technically correct that they're British in the sense that Ireland is part of the British isles I don't think it is. 'British' is the demonym for someone from the UK, whereas for someone from the Republic it's Irish. Nationality is a political concept, not geographic.
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May 24, 2014 22:23
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Pissflaps posted:I don't think it is. 'British' is the demonym for someone from the UK, whereas for someone from the Republic it's Irish. It incorporates elements of both. There's no way around the fact that Ireland is part of the British Isles, and that Irish is therefore a subset of British in the same way Manx is. I'm not saying it's ever used and I'm aware that the political dimension makes it a deeply controversial term for some, but that doesn't change geographic fact. For example Spaniards and (nationalist) Catalonians would both consider themselves Iberian, despite the fact that they consider themselves distinct nationally. That's not an issue because the terms are different, but if the Iberian peninsula was called the 'Spanish Peninsula' there'd surely be an aversion to a Catalonian describing themselves as Spanish despite its geographic truth. That's all that's happened in the British Isles - the major political entity has informally taken the name of the geographical region and therefore made it an unpopular term by association with the more minor ones. That doesn't stop the fact that it's true - just as a Catalonian is an Iberian, an Irishman is, in the most technical sense, British. fake edit: I guess it would be possible to identify 'British' with the island of 'Great Britain', rather than the 'British Isles', and that's likely what is usually done. Still, in the strictest and most pedantic terms my point stands.
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May 24, 2014 22:34
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Pissflaps posted:I don't think it is. 'British' is the demonym for someone from the UK, whereas for someone from the Republic it's Irish. Yep, Pissflaps is right on this one, the nation is a social construct in which territory plays a part rather than the other way around.
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May 24, 2014 22:34
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ThomasPaine posted:It incorporates elements of both. There's no way around the fact that Ireland is part of the British Isles, and that Irish is therefore a subset of British in the same way Manx is. I'm not saying it's ever used and I'm aware that the political dimension makes it a deeply controversial term for some, but that doesn't change geographic fact. British Pronunciation: ˈbrɪtɪʃ ADJECTIVE Relating to Great Britain or the United Kingdom, or to its people or language cormac posted:Canadians, Mexicans, Guatamalans, Brazilians and Peruvians etc. are from the Americas therefore they are American.
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May 24, 2014 22:37
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I would argue that a nation is a perceived community associated with a geographical area that it may or may not exist within. For example The Falklands are clearly not geographically part of The British Isles yet the people who live there perceive a distinct cultural belonging to Britain so they can describe themselves as British. The reason Ireland becomes complex is there is a disconnect in feeling as to whether or not the borders are legitimate along with a cultural disconnect with both the mainland and the Republic. Hence the slow emergence of people who consider their nationality to be Northern Irish.
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May 24, 2014 22:58
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StoneOfShame posted:I would argue that a nation is a perceived community associated with a geographical area that it may or may not exist within. For example The Falklands are clearly not geographically part of The British Isles yet the people who live there perceive a distinct cultural belonging to Britain so they can describe themselves as British. There's also the fact that the Republic of Ireland is neither on the island of Britain, nor part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but an entirely separate country on an entirely separate island. StoneOfShame posted:mainland I think I'm about to have a stroke.
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May 24, 2014 23:09
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Pork Pie Hat posted:How very good of you to allow immigrants to become "British", as you put it. oh shut the gently caress up. You're so eager to jump down my throat, i've never even come close to saying that. I've acknowledged that britishness changes, you're either willfully misunderstanding or you're so blinkered the possiblity of someone not agreeing with the great and righteous path of this thread it pointless engaging. Can't be bothered, you can go back to your misery circle jerk and start congratulating yourselves or besting me so effortlessly
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May 24, 2014 23:10
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Can we just talk about Monster Munch?
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May 24, 2014 23:11
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TinTower posted:Can we just talk about Monster Munch? I remember really liking a flavour that I'm sure was along the lines of 'bolognese sauce' and had a weird blue mushroom looking monster when I was a kid. Never see it these days and my life is worse for it. e: Also, since I was diagnosed with diabetes I have craved vanilla coke non-stop but as far as I know you can't get a diet version in the UK. It's the worst, esecially when there's the full sugar variety all over the place.
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May 24, 2014 23:15
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Illuminti posted:I don't think the fact that they don't stay is irrelevant. If 200,000 europeans moved into Ipswich, it would change the culture of the place regardless of if they were going to leave in 5 years As a local - Ipswich has no culture to begin with. If ever a town gives a collective 'wot you looking at?' it's Ipswich.
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May 24, 2014 23:23
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TinTower posted:Can we just talk about Monster Munch? Tortilla chips are better.
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May 24, 2014 23:24
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ThomasPaine posted:e: Also, since I was diagnosed with diabetes I have craved vanilla coke non-stop but as far as I know you can't get a diet version in the UK. It's the worst, esecially when there's the full sugar variety all over the place. There's no 'Diet' version, but there IS a "Vanilla Coke Zero", which might be close enough? (the 'Zero' versions are supposed to taste closer to the full sugar versions anyway)
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May 24, 2014 23:25
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SybilVimes posted:There's no 'Diet' version, but there IS a "Vanilla Coke Zero", which might be close enough? (the 'Zero' versions are supposed to taste closer to the full sugar versions anyway) Oh my god yes where did you see this
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May 24, 2014 23:30
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ThomasPaine posted:Oh my god yes where did you see this http://www.amazon.co.uk/diet-vanilla-coke/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=diet%20vanilla%20coke&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Adiet%20vanilla%20coke It'll probably be hard as hell to find in person, if you have a local corner shop, might be worth befriending the guy and asking him to see if his C&C has it.
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May 24, 2014 23:33
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cormac posted:There's also the fact that the Republic of Ireland is neither on the island of Britain, nor part of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, but an entirely separate country on an entirely separate island. What you said is technically correct but it doesn't say anything about the fact that the issue of nationality is increasingly complex in Northern Ireland (I should perhaps of clarified that I was referring to the island of Ireland when I said Ireland). Northern Ireland has a political border link with Britain but in a geographic sense is closer to the Republic, an interesting case would be Derry where it could be argued that half of the city is in the South but it is part of the UK. Combined with the fact that both community groups are increasingly finding difficulties in finding cultural similarities with the nationalities they traditionally considered themselves. Hence as I said the emergence of a Northern Irish nationality. I don't see why you had a problem with my use of mainland, it was used as colloquialism I often hear in Northern Ireland and was not meant to have any political connotations, its used by people from both groups.
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May 24, 2014 23:40
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Illuminti posted:oh shut the gently caress up. You're so eager to jump down my throat, i've never even come close to saying that. I've acknowledged that britishness changes, you're either willfully misunderstanding or you're so blinkered the possiblity of someone not agreeing with the great and righteous path of this thread it pointless engaging. Sorry we'll witter on about sausages for 100 pages if that's more to your liking.
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May 25, 2014 00:02
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StoneOfShame posted:What you said is technically correct but it doesn't say anything about the fact that the issue of nationality is increasingly complex in Northern Ireland (I should perhaps of clarified that I was referring to the island of Ireland when I said Ireland). Northern Ireland has a political border link with Britain but in a geographic sense is closer to the Republic, an interesting case would be Derry where it could be argued that half of the city is in the South but it is part of the UK. Combined with the fact that both community groups are increasingly finding difficulties in finding cultural similarities with the nationalities they traditionally considered themselves. Hence as I said the emergence of a Northern Irish nationality. This all comes from an assertion that all Irish people could be considered British. Northern Ireland is a seperate issue entirely, but I guarantee you that the overwhelming majority of people from the Republic will be very loving quick indeed to remind you that they aren't British. Edit: IT's not "technically" correct, it's just flat out correct. StoneOfShame posted:I don't see why you had a problem with my use of mainland, it was used as colloquialism I often hear in Northern Ireland and was not meant to have any political connotations, its used by people from both groups. It drives people mental down here, and will do so in parts of Northern Ireland too.
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May 25, 2014 00:02
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StoneOfShame posted:I don't see why you had a problem with my use of mainland, it was used as colloquialism I often hear in Northern Ireland and was not meant to have any political connotations, its used by people from both groups. I assume it's acceptable in NE because it's still part of the UK, and within that political entity Great Britain is 'the mainland'. However I can imagine people taking it the wrong way if you referred to it like that in the Republic. Reminds me of the fact that Shetlanders call Shetland proper (i.e. where Lerwick is) 'the mainland'. That confused the hell out of me at first because I assumed they were referring to Great Britain. Obviously not the same political issues there though. SybilVimes posted:http://www.amazon.co.uk/diet-vanilla-coke/s?ie=UTF8&keywords=diet%20vanilla%20coke&page=1&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3Adiet%20vanilla%20coke Cheers, I might just have to order myself a few crates of that. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 00:15 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 00:03
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Is London causing a sausage bubble? What's new in Cambridge sausage club? Is UKIP racist against artisan chorizo sausage (yes).
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May 25, 2014 00:03
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cormac posted:I guarantee you that the overwhelming majority of people from the Republic will be very loving quick indeed to remind you that they aren't British. I know an Estonian guy who once referred in conversation to a group of friends including myself as "you Brits". Irish mate of mine nearly bit his head off. "Yeah but technically isn't it all the same-" "No."
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May 25, 2014 00:12
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Some people still use the term West Brit to insult Irish people they don't consider Irish enough so calling an Irish person British has a tendency to cause people to freak the gently caress out, what exactly Irishness is is a national neurosis. The last thing you want to do is accidentally poke that hornet's nest.
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May 25, 2014 00:25
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Hungry posted:I know an Estonian guy who once referred in conversation to a group of friends including myself as "you Brits". Irish mate of mine nearly bit his head off. That doesn't really bother me so much, after all Estonia is loving miles away. I wouldn't expect someone from there to be familiar with the cultural sensitivities surrounding the relationship between Britain and Ireland. I mean I'd point out how he was wrong, but wouldn't be angry or even particularly surprised. I so find it incredible that people from the U.K. still don't understand why Irish people are so sensitive about being claimed as "kind of British really though" after 90 odd years of independence. This article was originally titled 20 best British novels of all time. People went loving bananas over it here, so it got changed after a few hours, but if you read the comments there's a good number of people who can't understand why people from Ireland would object to Flann O'Brien or John Banville being claimed as British. They called Katie Taylor British when she won gold in the London Olympics too. It happens all the loving time, I remember watching Barry Mcguigan winning a world title when I was a kid and the BBC claiming him as British, funny how he was Irish again as soon as he loving lost though. I think Brenda Fricker said it best "When you are lying drunk at the airport you're Irish. When you win an Oscar you're British"
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May 25, 2014 00:27
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ThomasPaine posted:e: Also, since I was diagnosed with diabetes I have craved vanilla coke non-stop but as far as I know you can't get a diet version in the UK. It's the worst, esecially when there's the full sugar variety all over the place. You could carry around a little flask full of vanilla extract. Just don't accidentally swig it 
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May 25, 2014 01:13
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ThomasPaine posted:e: Also, since I was diagnosed with diabetes I have craved vanilla coke non-stop but as far as I know you can't get a diet version in the UK. It's the worst, esecially when there's the full sugar variety all over the place. diet coke with a shitload of cheap bourbon in it? crap tastes like vanilla to me
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May 25, 2014 01:15
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ThomasPaine posted:I remember really liking a flavour that I'm sure was along the lines of 'bolognese sauce' and had a weird blue mushroom looking monster when I was a kid. Never see it these days and my life is worse for it. Spaghetti sauce
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May 25, 2014 01:22
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cormac posted:This all comes from an assertion that all Irish people could be considered British. Northern Ireland is a seperate issue entirely, but I guarantee you that the overwhelming majority of people from the Republic will be very loving quick indeed to remind you that they aren't British. As I said, I should have been clearer that I was talking about the whole island including the North to highlight that I think that nationality isn't as easily defined by just geographical boundaries. I wasn't asserting that people from the Republic could be described I was British in fact if you look at the definition I was using even if you say that that British refers to the whole British Isles Irish people don't perceive themselves to be part of a community associated with geographical/political Britain. Out of curiosity how would you define nationality with regards to the communities of Northern Ireland? I didn't think what someone from the South would think about the use of mainland and for that I would apologise, but I said it is used commonly in the North and not just from people in the Unionist community, its relatively common amongst nationalists too. kustomkarkommando posted:Some people still use the term West Brit to insult Irish people they don't consider Irish enough so calling an Irish person British has a tendency to cause people to freak the gently caress out, what exactly Irishness is is a national neurosis. The last thing you want to do is accidentally poke that hornet's nest. I've also heard West Brit to refer to quite posh people in the South, my ex from Dublin always used to say her rich aunt who had an accent that was almost RP with a South Dublin inflection as having a West Brit accent. cormac posted:That doesn't really bother me so much, after all Estonia is loving miles away. I wouldn't expect someone from there to be familiar with the cultural sensitivities surrounding the relationship between Britain and Ireland. I mean I'd point out how he was wrong, but wouldn't be angry or even particularly surprised. I know he's from the North and could be considered British by some but I always loved Seamus Heaney's reaction to being including in anthology of British poetry. Seamus Heaney posted:Be advised my passport's green.
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May 25, 2014 02:12
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cormac posted:I so find it incredible that people from the U.K. still don't understand why Irish people are so sensitive about being claimed as "kind of British really though" after 90 odd years of independence. People from England generally don't spend their entire lives wrapped up in narrow definitions of nationalism to the point they fly off the handle if someone inadvertently refers to them by the wrong bit of rock they live on, so it's basically your standard unthinking ignorance. The Scots and Irish (and to a much lesser extent the Welsh) preoccupation with their own nationality leads to a hypersensitivity, which when juxtaposed against English indifference makes the English appear intentionally offensive, while the reverse makes the Scots/Irish look like frothing loons. As usual, the truth is somewhere in the middle.
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May 25, 2014 02:22
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cormac posted:"British" refers to the island of Great Britain. British can refer to the British Isles as a whole and yes, technically speaking, they're all Americans. And words obviously also have multiple meanings and/or connotations beyond the technical strict definition which is why calling Irish people "British" or Peruvians "American" is often a very bad idea, but you specifically asked for the technical, pedantic argument, so give over.
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May 25, 2014 02:59
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1. I was an English teacher for 13 years, on and off. 2. My accent is fairly plummy Perceived English. 3. I hold a British passport. 4. I was born in Kensington, London. 5. All my family are French. 6. I am white and I have blue/gray eyes. 7. I drink tea like I breathe air. Number 5, to some, is the only important bit of information there, I've traveled to a lot of the world, when people are not mistaking me for American, no one disputes my "Englishness", However, I'm technically a second generation Immigrant.
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May 25, 2014 08:50
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Still no local election results for my area, lazy fuckers.
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May 25, 2014 08:54
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