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Grand Fromage posted:Saudi definitely has them, that was cited by bin Laden as a primary motivation for 9/11. Are you sure they still have them? I can't find anything on US bases in Saudi. Do you have, perhaps, a map of where they are and what they're called? Grand Fromage posted:Best as I can tell there aren't any in Thailand, but there is an air base that the USAF is allowed to use. That's a bit of a stretch to me. Phlegmish posted:If you ask a lot of non-Serbs, Yugoslavia was Greater Serbia. I was surprised to discover (from Wikipedia) that Tito was actually a Croat himself. What made the Serbs so important in Yugoslavia?
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May 25, 2014 15:07
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Bloodnose posted:I was surprised to discover (from Wikipedia) that Tito was actually a Croat himself. What made the Serbs so important in Yugoslavia? It mostly came down to sheer numbers. In 1971, Serbs made up almost 40% of the population, with Croatians a distant second at 22% and Muslim Bosniaks at a comparatively tiny 8.4%, so there wasn't really any demographic group that could have competed with them. I think it's also historically influenced: The first, inter-war Yugoslavia effectively grew from the pre-WWI Kingdom of Serbia (whereas Slovenes, Croatians and Bosnians lived under Austrian rule until 1918) and was clearly dominated by Serbian elites (not least a Serbian royal dynasty), which carried over into the second Yugoslavia. Tito tried his best to combat systemic Serbian influence, but after his death in 1980 Serbian nationalism quickly rose again. Have a related map:  edit: Oh, and it seems that from 1990 on the US maintained a pretty large military presence in Saudi-Arabia. After continuing protests throughout the Muslim world, most of the troops were withdrawn by the Bush administration and the remaining units now are stationed in a single base south of Riyadh ("Eskan Village"), currently numbering about 2,000 men. I don't have a map, sadly, but I do have a picture of the 64th Air Expeditionary Group in Eskan: 
System Metternich fucked around with this message at 15:41 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 15:24
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Bloodnose posted:Are you sure they still have them? I can't find anything on US bases in Saudi. Do you have, perhaps, a map of where they are and what they're called? They've mostly been pulled out, this one is still active at least: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eskan_Village It's not much of a base but it is one.
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May 25, 2014 15:35
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Bloodnose posted:Are you sure they still have them? I can't find anything on US bases in Saudi. Do you have, perhaps, a map of where they are and what they're called? Numbers. Historically, Serbia has always been the dominant southern Slav nationality. Its capital was always Yugoslavia's capital too. Tito was only half-Croat, from memory. I think one of his parents was Slovene. His genius was building the Yugoslav identity, no small feat after WWII. It was almost inevitable that it would fall apart after his death. Slobodan Milosevic played on historical Serbian grievances, from Kosovo Polje in 1389 to WWII, to come to power, with bloody results in the early 90s.
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May 25, 2014 15:41
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Yeah, wasn't the collapse of Yugoslavia all Milosevic being a genocidal wanker rather than Tito, who actually did a good job in keeping the country together (and broadly peaceful)?
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May 25, 2014 16:01
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Also checked out Tito's wikipedia page. I never had the full understanding of vow remarkable and capable the guy actually was.
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May 25, 2014 16:02
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The tragedy of Yugoslavia was that it was almost doomed from its outset. The Croats and Slovenes were at least interested in a federation of South Slavs, which the Serb leaders at the Paris Peace Conference played along with, until they got the opportunity to form Yugoslavia as essentially a Serbian Empire. Had the Serbs moved the capital to Sarajevo, and not discriminated so badly in government and military positions against non-Serbs, the Croat massacres against Serbs in WWII and then the break-up of Yugoslavia in the 90s might never have happened,.
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May 25, 2014 16:07
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IceAgeComing posted:Yeah, wasn't the collapse of Yugoslavia all Milosevic being a genocidal wanker rather than Tito, who actually did a good job in keeping the country together (and broadly peaceful)? Milosevic wasn't conclusively linked to genocide, like Mladic and Karadzic were. He definitely played the primary role in engineering Yugoslavia's disintegration though, along with a few Croat nationalists (who also committed genocide). Slovenia got off relatively easily - it has always been the most west-looking of the republics. Linguists are now affirmatively separating Croat and Serbian dialects, which are mutually-intelligible versions of the same language.
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May 25, 2014 16:13
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TheImmigrant posted:Numbers. Historically, Serbia has always been the dominant southern Slav nationality. Its capital was always Yugoslavia's capital too. Has that always been true? I seem to recall the Byzantines having big problems with the Bulgarians, no mention of Serbs there. Or are Bulgarians not Southern Slavs?
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May 25, 2014 16:14
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TheImmigrant posted:Is it imperialism if the host wants forces there? I'm not really colonizing my friends' house when they invite me over for dinner. Price Check posted:Given the parameters of these maps, shouldn't Cuba also be part of the "American Empire?"
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May 25, 2014 16:28
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Torrannor posted:Has that always been true? I seem to recall the Byzantines having big problems with the Bulgarians, no mention of Serbs there. Or are Bulgarians not Southern Slavs? Honestly don't know. Bulgarian is the closest Slavic language to Russian. I've usually understood "Southern Slavs" to be former Yugoslavs (with the exception of Albanians, who weren't considered one of FRY's constituent nationalities).
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May 25, 2014 16:36
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Torrannor posted:Has that always been true? I seem to recall the Byzantines having big problems with the Bulgarians, no mention of Serbs there. Or are Bulgarians not Southern Slavs? Honestly, I'd like to know more about how Bulgarians just came to be. Given that Romanians to the north speak a Romance language, and the Byzantines to the south spoke Greek, there must've been an absolutely tremendous population of Slavs for Bulgarians to become Bulgarians and not Hellenophones or speakers of some Romance language. What what the widest extent of Slav populations during the Early Medieval period?
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May 25, 2014 16:52
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TheImmigrant posted:Honestly don't know. Bulgarian is the closest Slavic language to Russian. I've usually understood "Southern Slavs" to be former Yugoslavs (with the exception of Albanians, who weren't considered one of FRY's constituent nationalities). Not sure where you got that idea, Bulgarian is a South Slavic language; the East Slavic ones (Ukrainian/Belarusian/Rusyn) are unambiguously closer to Russian since they split at a later date.
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May 25, 2014 16:55
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Torrannor posted:Has that always been true? I seem to recall the Byzantines having big problems with the Bulgarians, no mention of Serbs there. Or are Bulgarians not Southern Slavs? Dominant South Slav nationality within Yugoslavia. While Bulgarians are South Slavs (they are the weird south slavs since they were slavicized after settling in modern day Bulgaria) they weren't part of the actual state of Yugoslavia. There were actions taken to incorporate them diplomatically into Yugoslavia after WWII, but those were abandoned after Stalin-Tito split, for obvious reasons.
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May 25, 2014 16:59
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Indeed it was one of the reasons for the split as I recall. Stalin didn't want an alternative centre of power emerging in the Balkans.
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May 25, 2014 17:01
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Zohar posted:Not sure where you got that idea, Bulgarian is a South Slavic language; the East Slavic ones (Ukrainian/Belarusian/Rusyn) are unambiguously closer to Russian since they split at a later date. I'm not a specialist in Slavic languages, but aren't Ukrainian, Belorussian, and Russian mutually intelligible? I'll grant that they are closer to each other than Bulgarian.
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May 25, 2014 17:04
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Grand Fromage posted:Best as I can tell there aren't any in Thailand, but there is an air base that the USAF is allowed to use. That's a bit of a stretch to me. It is probably referring to this. quote:Within the period of 1954-1975 (the Vietnam War or Second Indochina War), the Thai Government allowed the Joint United States Military Assistance Group (JUSMAG) to fund and manage the modernization of Royal Thai Air Force airbases. In an unsigned agreement these airbases were to be operated by the United States Air Force for the specific purpose of attacking North Vietnam with some 500 airplanes. These bases were supplied by a similarly constructed Naval Base near the deep-water port of Sattahip 12 37' 42" N, 100 55' 29" E. Many American military specialists were assigned to JUSMAG-THAI in Bangkok. As many as 45,000 US Military personnel were stationed in Thailand.
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May 25, 2014 17:30
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TheImmigrant posted:I'm not a specialist in Slavic languages, but aren't Ukrainian, Belorussian, and Russian mutually intelligible? I'll grant that they are closer to each other than Bulgarian. I suppose that depends on what you mean by "mutually intelligible". I am a native Russian speaker, learned some Ukrainian in school many many years ago, but I can understand news reports and the like in Ukrainian only very partially, with a very high % of words completely unknown to me. But yeah, they are closer to each other than to Bulgarian, though there are Bulgarian influences in Russian because the Russian Orthodox Church used to use Old Church Slavonic (which is roughly old Bulgarian) as the liturgical language (it got modernized, though).
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May 25, 2014 17:35
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OddObserver posted:I suppose that depends on what you mean by "mutually intelligible". I am a native Ukrainian tends to use H where Russian has G (Г), right?
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May 25, 2014 18:00
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This map exists in an alternate universe where the Chinese Nationalists escaped to Hainan, Guantanamo Bay doesn't exist, and Borneo is not part of Indonesia. This map exists in an alternate universe where Taiwan and South Korea were not occupied by Japan prior to WWII.
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May 25, 2014 18:02
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TheImmigrant posted:Ukrainian tends to use H where Russian has G (Г), right? cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 18:19 on May 25, 2014 |
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May 25, 2014 18:15
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Didn't we have a huge Yugoslavia discussion a few pages ago?
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May 25, 2014 18:27
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May 25, 2014 18:31
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May 25, 2014 18:41
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I've spent a lot of time in Caribbean Central America. At night in places like Bocas del Toro or Utila, you'll hear (but not see for lack of running lights) speedboats almost every night. Miskitia in particular is a haven for traffickers. Honduras cooperates heavily with the DEA, although Nicaragua much less.
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May 25, 2014 18:44
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Mu Cow posted:This map exists in an alternate universe where the Chinese Nationalists escaped to Hainan, Guantanamo Bay doesn't exist, and Borneo is not part of Indonesia. Yeah both those maps are shite. Here's one of military bases used on the Spanish and Chinese wikipedias' pages for "American imperialism":  (As of 2007, though, so probably not up to date now -- I think the one in Kyrgyzstan has shut down / is being shut down, there are probably others.) And another on the Chinese wikipedia, US military interventions since 1950:  Interesting maps regardless of whether you agree with the point being made.
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May 25, 2014 19:02
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Zohar posted:Yeah both those maps are shite. Here's one of military bases used on the Spanish and Chinese wikipedias' pages for "American imperialism": Hmm, I cannot remember any fighting in FYROM, and I don't think NATO intervened inside of Croatia. But I was just a kid at the time, so I may be misremembering.
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May 25, 2014 19:10
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Zohar posted:And another on the Chinese wikipedia, US military interventions since 1950: Odd that it doesn't include Cuba. Although I guess that technically wasn't the US Military. Torrannor posted:Hmm, I cannot remember any fighting in FYROM, and I don't think NATO intervened inside of Croatia. But I was just a kid at the time, so I may be misremembering. I think they've just colored all of Yugoslavia.
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May 25, 2014 19:13
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Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
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Torrannor posted:Hmm, I cannot remember any fighting in FYROM, and I don't think NATO intervened inside of Croatia. But I was just a kid at the time, so I may be misremembering. You're right about Croatia, although the US did send advisors to the Croatian military. They also loaned the drones that were crucial in preparing the operations Winter 94 and Storm, which effectively ended the war in Croatia. There were also rumors of NATO planes taking out Serb communication nodes at the beggining of Operation Storm, but I've never seen any confirmation of that.
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May 25, 2014 19:44
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PittTheElder posted:Odd that it doesn't include Cuba. Although I guess that technically wasn't the US Military.
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May 25, 2014 20:10
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I had clearly not looked closely enough. No idea what's going on with that one then.
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May 25, 2014 21:22
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Bloodnose posted:Minus Slovenia and plus Albania Maybe they don't know what Yugoslavia actually was and just went for close enough?
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May 25, 2014 22:02
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So France is pretty terrible. Today's European election results by commune and then by department. The dark blue is where the Front National came in first, lighter blue the UMP, even lighter blue the centrists (what's going on in Mayenne?) pink the PS, green the Greens, red the Left Front and grey usually regionalists.  Interactive version here. http://www.20minutes.fr/ext/carte-europeennes.html
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May 26, 2014 02:40
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Zohar posted:Yeah both those maps are shite. Here's one of military bases used on the Spanish and Chinese wikipedias' pages for "American imperialism": e: And what the hell are we doing in Paraguay? Lord Hydronium fucked around with this message at 02:55 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 02:52
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Soviet Commubot posted:So France is pretty terrible. Today's European election results by commune and then by department. The dark blue is where the Front National came in first, lighter blue the UMP, even lighter blue the centrists (what's going on in Mayenne?) pink the PS, green the Greens, red the Left Front and grey usually regionalists.
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May 26, 2014 02:54
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Zohar posted:
That's the wrong god-damned Congo
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May 26, 2014 02:57
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Soviet Commubot posted:So France is pretty terrible. Today's European election results by commune and then by department. The dark blue is where the Front National came in first, lighter blue the UMP, even lighter blue the centrists (what's going on in Mayenne?) pink the PS, green the Greens, red the Left Front and grey usually regionalists. e: nope, that hole is Hauts-de-Seine apparently? What's up with that district? I assumed the inset on the upper right was French Guiana  e2: Hmm, Essonne isn't colored on your map, but is colored on the website now. Were they doing recounts or some such? e3: Also yeah, what the hell did Hollande presumably do? PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 03:07 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 03:02
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Paris and the inner ring of the Ile de France are in the upper right hand corner of the images. Christ that map is depressing, though the PS probably deserved to get wiped out after Hollande embraced supply side bullcrap. Jerry Manderbilt fucked around with this message at 03:06 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 03:04
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What are the chances FN can pull off this kind of result during a general election?
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May 26, 2014 03:08
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Bloodnose posted:Minus Slovenia and plus Albania As I understand it this is accurate: Slovenia was basically aloof after it won the Ten-Day War, which happened without any external involvement. The other ones were all subject to NATO intervention to various degrees during the period from the Bosnian to the Kosovo War. (Croatia's the arguable odd one out, but NATO was around in Croatia during Operation Deny Flight and had a UN mandate to operate there.) kustomkarkommando posted:That's the wrong god-damned Congo Didn't notice that one, but you're right.
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May 26, 2014 03:09
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