How the gently caress does saying the Catholic Church was created by Satan even make sense?  The Protestants were the ones who broke off from the Catholics, not the other way around. If the Catholic Church was created by Satan, that means Jesus was Satan.
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May 25, 2014 19:26
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It's something about how the Catholic Church isn't in the scriptures and because the origins of the Catholic Church aren't that widely known there's the assumption that some confederation of evil dudes decided to turn it into secret Satanism -- Protestantism eliminates the social institutions not specified in the Bible so logically it *can't* be Satanic. (Source: help I know people who believe this.)
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May 25, 2014 19:44
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That... what... buh? What the gently caress do they think Christianity was in the thousand years or so before Martin Luther? 
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May 25, 2014 19:51
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SALT CURES HAM posted:How the gently caress does saying the Catholic Church was created by Satan even make sense? The reasoning more or less is that Jesus made a bunch of proclamations and the like, then the Catholic Church was made and was either corrupted or born corrupt but it misinterpreted his word for a while and then when the Protestants broke off they got divine guidance to determine how the Bible should be read (specifically the King James Edition).
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May 25, 2014 19:53
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SALT CURES HAM posted:How the gently caress does saying the Catholic Church was created by Satan even make sense? The biggest sticking point between the Catholics and Protestants is the Church Hierarchy. Since it was basically the Roman religion's setup (Pontifex Maximus was the title of the supreme priest of Jupiter), and the Olympian Gods are often thought of as demons or Satan himself, copying the Roman Church's titles, rituals, dress (the Pope's outfit is basically what the Emperors wore in the later years of the Western Empire); confessing your sins to a priest, asking the saints who oversee various realms to help you, honoring Mary as Mother of God, etc, all that is seen as Roman polytheism/Satan corrupting Christianity. Then the Protestant Reformation happened and got rid of all that stuff, so obviously it's purer and closer to Original Christianity.
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May 25, 2014 19:59
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SALT CURES HAM posted:How the gently caress does saying the Catholic Church was created by Satan even make sense? He has a thing about how the Eucharist isn't in the Bible (despite, you know, the whole last supper thing.) Also that his whole sect of Baptists was secretly around since Jesus times and they're the only real church.
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May 25, 2014 20:59
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SALT CURES HAM posted:That... what... buh? What the gently caress do they think Christianity was in the thousand years or so before Martin Luther? This is what happens when you get massive cultural indoctrination to think of history as essentially being always immediately extant. Accusing a sect of Christianity of essentially being a mask for Satanism isn't at all a rare accusation, and it was a practice perpetuated in the development of the Catholic Church as well.
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May 25, 2014 21:10
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So how 'bout them Mormons? I wish there was more, better LDS cinema. I could easily see a lot of their mythos translating well to film.
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May 25, 2014 21:26
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LaughMyselfTo posted:So how 'bout them Mormons? The gist of it as far as it's presented in the documentary CleanFlix is that while a fairly successful Mormon film industry exists, the restrictions imposed by the religion are so strict that there's virtually no possibility for portraying narratives with moral ambiguity or doubt about the faith. Much like early twentieth-century reformists, Mormons (along with many different peoples of different religions, obviously) believe that there's a direct connection between the moral quality of the content we consume and their influence upon our souls. Which is to say, bad things make you think bad thoughts.
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May 25, 2014 21:57
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K. Waste posted:This is what happens when you get massive cultural indoctrination to think of history as essentially being always immediately extant. Accusing a sect of Christianity of essentially being a mask for Satanism isn't at all a rare accusation, and it was a practice perpetuated in the development of the Catholic Church as well. But it was the original organized sect of Christianity. Do they not think critically at all? ...poo poo, stupid question.
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May 25, 2014 23:28
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LaughMyselfTo posted:So how 'bout them Mormons? Battlestar Galactica
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May 25, 2014 23:33
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K. Waste posted:This is what happens when you get massive cultural indoctrination to think of history as essentially being always immediately extant. Accusing a sect of Christianity of essentially being a mask for Satanism isn't at all a rare accusation, and it was a practice perpetuated in the development of the Catholic Church as well.  Jack Chick's elaborate explanations of how everything other than his obscure Baptist sect is actually satanic in origin is incredible, it makes me surprised that he's so popular considering that once you tally it all up he condemns a good chunk of his own customers.
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May 25, 2014 23:57
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SALT CURES HAM posted:But it was the original organized sect of Christianity. Do they not think critically at all? Well, since they're not Catholics and they broke away from Catholicism, they obviously think that there's something wrong about Catholicism, right? And once you buy that, why not say that the "thing wrong" is that Satan is pulling some strings? I mean, it's hosed, but I don't see why its illogical in the sense you seem to. Catholicism was corrupted by Satan, so they broke away to be the new legit dudes or whatever. (plus it's not really correct to call Catholicism "the original organize sect", see obviously the Orthodox but also tons of other branches that originated at the same time)
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May 26, 2014 00:14
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If anyone wants to go down the Catholic Church/Satanism rabbit hole, look no further than Jesus-Is-Savior.com. http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/satanism_in_the_vatican.htm http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/the_great_whore.htm Oh, and Catholicism is far from the only Satanic religion. http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/false_religions.htm
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May 26, 2014 00:32
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QVC Drinking Game posted:Well, since they're not Catholics and they broke away from Catholicism, they obviously think that there's something wrong about Catholicism, right? And once you buy that, why not say that the "thing wrong" is that Satan is pulling some strings? Mostly because none of Martin Luther's 95 Theses were "I think Beezlebub is pulling the Pope's strings," pretty sure.
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May 26, 2014 00:41
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Basically, these guys believe there was the Catholic church that was keeping down the true Christians that existed all along. They don't believe they broke away from the church basically.
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May 26, 2014 00:46
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QVC Drinking Game posted:Well, since they're not Catholics and they broke away from Catholicism, they obviously think that there's something wrong about Catholicism, right? And once you buy that, why not say that the "thing wrong" is that Satan is pulling some strings? I mean, it's hosed, but I don't see why its illogical in the sense you seem to. Catholicism was corrupted by Satan, so they broke away to be the new legit dudes or whatever. I'm not saying that the assertion that they were corrupted by Satan is illogical, I'm saying the assertion that they were founded by Satan is ridiculous nonsense.
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May 26, 2014 01:51
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Skeevy Mcgee posted:If anyone wants to go down the Catholic Church/Satanism rabbit hole, look no further than Jesus-Is-Savior.com. These pages just remind me http://www.truthism.com/
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May 26, 2014 03:18
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muscles like this? posted:Jack Chick (of those stupid little comic pamphlets) actually puts out stuff directly stating that the Catholic Church was created by and is currently run by Satan. So Peter was Satan in disguise and fooled Jesus the whole time they were hanging out. This cat is slick.
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May 26, 2014 04:41
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LaughMyselfTo posted:So how 'bout them Mormons? *The Prophet was never made and Richard Dutcher left the church in 2007 over a theological dispute
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May 26, 2014 05:03
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EDIT: Quote is not edit.
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May 26, 2014 05:03
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LaughMyselfTo posted:So how 'bout them Mormons? I guess Cleanflix technically counts as LDS cinema. It's fascinating to see their righteous indignation over being denied the right to edit and resell other peoples' movies.
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May 26, 2014 13:31
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raditts posted:I guess Cleanflix technically counts as LDS cinema. It's fascinating to see their righteous indignation over being denied the right to edit and resell other peoples' movies. Cleanflix was kind of a sleazy doc, though. I enjoyed it overall, but as soon as it started getting into interviewing Danny Thompson's ex-girlfriend about his sexuality, I got this weird suspicion that I was just being asked to laugh at the freak show. Then again, I also felt similarly about Jesus Camp.
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May 26, 2014 14:37
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Byzantine posted:The biggest sticking point between the Catholics and Protestants is the Church Hierarchy. Since it was basically the Roman religion's setup (Pontifex Maximus was the title of the supreme priest of Jupiter), and the Olympian Gods are often thought of as demons or Satan himself, copying the Roman Church's titles, rituals, dress (the Pope's outfit is basically what the Emperors wore in the later years of the Western Empire); confessing your sins to a priest, asking the saints who oversee various realms to help you, honoring Mary as Mother of God, etc, all that is seen as Roman polytheism/Satan corrupting Christianity. Although the question of church hierarchy is certainly a point of disagreement for us Protestants, I think the biggest issue has almost always been the doctrine of justification. The practice of indulgences was also a hot topic, but from what I understand it's the one that initially lit the spark but became overshadowed by other stuff. SALT CURES HAM posted:But it was the original organized sect of Christianity. Do they not think critically at all? I'm not sure if the topic is still on Jack Chick or Protestants in general. I don't like Jack Chick at all (particularly but not limited to his KJV-Onlyism), but there are Protestants who are capable of nuanced critiques of church history.
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May 26, 2014 15:29
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A movie about the American Anglican church in the period during and immediately after the revolution could be really interesting I think. I'm honestly kind of surprised that there is so much vitriol directed towards Catholics in this country when Anglicans seem a more natural target.
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May 27, 2014 19:24
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Simplex posted:A movie about the American Anglican church in the period during and immediately after the revolution could be really interesting I think. A lot of it is because of racism. There was a time when the only white people were English or French, and nobody was worried about French Catholics.
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May 27, 2014 20:26
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re: Catholics. In the early 20th Century there was a lot of Irish and Italian immigrants coming over. Of course a lot of those would be Catholics, and of course the majority of the US at the time was made up of protestants. There was a lot of racism directed towards those groups, and by default Catholicism as well. Around that time the KKK began to swell in numbers because they began to increase their target from Blacks to pretty much everyone that wasn't a Anglo Saxon Protestant. In Indiana for example (Where the KKK really took off during this time period) their main target was in fact, Catholics. To the point where my German Catholic family was threatened several times by the Klan. Of course it eventually collapsed, but it kind of boils down to some bizarre racism held by many with that background.
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May 27, 2014 21:33
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FuzzySkinner posted:re: Catholics. Here is a pretty famous political cartoon that showed some nice anti-Catholic beliefs 
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May 27, 2014 21:46
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bobkatt013 posted:Here is a pretty famous political cartoon that showed some nice anti-Catholic beliefs The connotation is a little different now though.
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May 28, 2014 00:14
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Anti-Catholicism isn't that old either. When JFK was running for President, he had to give a speech saying "Hey guys, I'm a Catholic, but don't worry, I won't listen to the pope or let him rule the country through me." And we've still only have had one Catholic president. Of course, nowadays, anti-Catholicism has become less mainstream because we're everywhere. We've become a major part of society, and people realize that we're not some crazed Vatican serving lunatic fringe out to take over the world for the Pope. There's some of that stuff around today. Even on Ok Cupid, there's a question that says "Would you consider dating a Catholic?" And a lot of Christian churches still view Catholics a little warily. One of the things that began to bring down Anti-Catholicism though was the Moral Majority. Basically, these guys were anti-Catholics until they realized that Catholics, while they love their liberal politics, really hate abortion. And since a lot of people can be single issue voters, they decided to embrace Catholics for their anti-abortion politics to bring them over to the Republican side. Before then, most Catholics were firmly Democrats. And you can see the results today. A priest near me actually said "If you voted for Obama, you cannot take communion without confessing" because he was pro-abortion. That's how effective it was.
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May 28, 2014 00:55
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Cemetry Gator posted:One of the things that began to bring down Anti-Catholicism though was the Moral Majority. Basically, these guys were anti-Catholics until they realized that Catholics, while they love their liberal politics, really hate abortion. And since a lot of people can be single issue voters, they decided to embrace Catholics for their anti-abortion politics to bring them over to the Republican side. Before then, most Catholics were firmly Democrats. And you can see the results today. I remember being a teenager and my parents commenting on how disturbed they were that Catholicism was being so effectively seduced by really reactionary conservatism. Luckily our parish wasn't very overtly politicized, but by the time I got to high school, the level of anti-liberal sentiment among my peers was striking, and all of it was wrapped up in their religion. There was even one girl in my Junior year honors religion class who basically announced that she believed Muslims and Christians should exist in separate nations. And, obviously, none of this is particularly Protestant, either. Like you say, it's really just the vitriolic hatred of this self-constructed 'Moral Majority.'
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May 28, 2014 01:49
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Cemetry Gator posted:Anti-Catholicism isn't that old either. When JFK was running for President, he had to give a speech saying "Hey guys, I'm a Catholic, but don't worry, I won't listen to the pope or let him rule the country through me." And we've still only have had one Catholic president. I brought this up in another thread, but The Two Babylons is a great example of how old and virulent evangelical anti-Catholicism is. It was unironically given to me when I was younger as proof of how Catholics are all actually worshipping Isis. Or something.
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May 28, 2014 03:03
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Cemetry Gator posted:There's some of that stuff around today. Even on Ok Cupid, there's a question that says "Would you consider dating a Catholic?" And a lot of Christian churches still view Catholics a little warily. On the flip side, something like 90ish percent women on Match that set their religion to Catholic search for "White Men Only." (although percentages shift by regions) That's even more racial preference than Islam or even Hindu. It's a really interesting correlation that is more extreme with that religion than any other, which MIGHT have something to do with the structure/type of religion it is.
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May 28, 2014 03:16
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Cemetry Gator posted:
I think a lot of that has more to do with an ill-conceived and half-baked attempt by the GOP to capture Latino voters. I brought up the Anglican Church because it's an interesting time period where someone's religious identity was pretty firmly entrenched along with their political identity. It's pretty difficult to join an armed revolution against the nominal head of your church. And really if you wanted to make a movie about whether or not America is a Christian nation, that is the time period you should really focus on. Honestly, I think you could make a credible argument either way.
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May 28, 2014 07:27
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Simplex posted:I think a lot of that has more to do with an ill-conceived and half-baked attempt by the GOP to capture Latino voters. I don't doubt this, but if the GOP's plan to lure in Latinos through Catholicism was 'half-baked,' it certainly had the unintended consequence that American Catholics effectively joined the moral majority. The Latino question isn't far removed, either. After Roe v. Wade there was a precipitous decline in American Catholicism away from focusing on social justice/workers' rights/humanitarianism, towards an emphasis on gay marriage and abortion as the paramount social ills. Now, Catholic reformism has always been wedded with reactionary politics -- before the Second World War, urban Catholic bishops and priests, in general, were both social progressives (advocating often borderline Communistic social changes) and racial conservatives (nativism against non-Christian immigrants, overt anti-Semitism which bordered into Nazi-sympathy, etc.).
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May 28, 2014 16:28
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Cemetry Gator posted:There's some of that stuff around today. Even on Ok Cupid, there's a question that says "Would you consider dating a Catholic?" And a lot of Christian churches still view Catholics a little warily. Given the makeup of OKCupid, I'm pretty sure this is less about hatred of Catholics in particular and more about the fact that the site skews waaaaay in favor of nonreligious people, and that Catholicism has a lot of mores regarding dating and marriage that nonreligious people might not be 100% okay with. Like, I'm a lapsed Catholic myself and I probably still wouldn't date a serious practicing one, but it's not necessarily because I have any issues with the religion, I just like being able to gently caress my partner before marriage and not being expected to have a billion goddamn kids (or de facto forced to because no birth control).
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May 28, 2014 18:42
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I can't remember if it's been mentioned here, but it bears another mention. There's a great documentary about Jack Chick, and more specifically Chick tracts that cam eout not long ago. It's called God's Cartoonist. It isn't hard to find. It gives an excellent overview of his style, history,a nd what little is known about Jack himself, and features the first onscreen interview with Fred Carter, the guy who does the more realistic (and occasionally deliciously lurid)art in the tracts, as opposed to Chick's more cartoon-ey style. It has some good interviews with Ivan Stang and Hal Robbins of the Church of the Subgenius along with some other folks, and in a way I like embraces Chich as the freaked out weirdo outsider artist he is, and the most widely published comic book artist in the world. The people behind it were into the good ol' underground comic scene, and it largely views him through that lens instead of just pontificating about his backward-rear end morals and bigotry, because everyone with half a brain knows all that poo poo already. Not directly related to Christianity, but does anyone know any good movies about Scientology or L. Ron Hubbard apart from the Master? Id like something that focusses less on "Oh Scilons are dopey" because that's all easy to find, but Hubbard was just such a ridiculous cartoon of a man, and The Master really was almost perfect but I want more like that.
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May 28, 2014 23:18
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Simplex posted:I think a lot of that has more to do with an ill-conceived and half-baked attempt by the GOP to capture Latino voters. This was actually all happening in the 70s and 80s. This article goes into the background of how the GOP spent more time trying to appeal to Catholics: http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/23/opinion/stanley-conservatives-catholics/ The Moral Majority was so effective that it was able to get 1/3 of their donations from Catholics.
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May 29, 2014 00:38
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Here's the trailer to Jesus Camp. It's really quite horrifying: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sC_yzUWIfzs
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May 29, 2014 16:20
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SciFiDownBeat posted:Here's the trailer to Jesus Camp. It's really quite horrifying: Small thing that I want to add. The lady in the pink shirt right at the beginning and who comments throughout? She gave the movie a pass. She didn't think the movie falsified anything or misinterpreted anything about the people and about what the camp was all about. She saw the movie as a fair portrayal about the Jesus Camp experience. Think about that.
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May 29, 2014 19:55
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