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ArtistCeleste posted:Flat stock is easy to burn especially with so much detail. I still do it. And your lovely BBQ fork looks great for a first try. Nice work drifting. Nice I'll check out the vid. I was planning on heating the blade until my magnet no longer sticks to it, then dunking it in water. For tempering I was probably going to pop it in the oven at ~450 for half an hour or so. But I have been meaning to read up a bit on the specifics of spring steel before I do any of that.
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May 24, 2014 23:48
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| # ? May 24, 2024 01:32 |
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The RECAPITATOR posted:Nice I'll check out the vid. Your knife is probably 5160 or similar, so you should look into an oil quench. I've had good results with canola oil - you can pick up a big jug of it (or any other light oil, like peanut) at someplace like Costco. You could also try used motor oil, but it will smell absolutely terrible when you quench.
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May 25, 2014 00:38
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engessa posted:Thursday i made a fire poker: I actually have no experience forge welding. I really need to get on that. However, I have seen someone taper it out an extra long piece and loop it around. You forge weld the two pieces and then cut the loop apart.
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May 25, 2014 02:21
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I am still learning (although I had some success yesterday) but from what I understand, there are two major styles of forge welding. I'd call "welding in advance with a welder" to be a 3rd style, perhaps pre-welding? Fagot welding is when you fold the metal on itself and weld it together that way. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yn6M7FIsGkQ&list=WL&index=29 That's a great example of Fagot welding. The word Fagot means "bundle of sticks," FYI. It's easier because the metal is already held together, and you don't need an extra pair of hands. The other major type of welding is Scarf Welding. That's when you have two separate pieces and are trying to attach them. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luh6TgUW0u4&list=WL&index=41 Question about flux : What's everyone using? I think one of my biggest problems when attempting to forge weld, is the faces to be welded get dirty, and my flux doesn't seem to be working. I'm using a mix of borax and playground sand; I'm thinking I should switch to just borax.
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May 25, 2014 15:49
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Pagan posted:Question about flux : What's everyone using? I think one of my biggest problems when attempting to forge weld, is the faces to be welded get dirty, and my flux doesn't seem to be working. I'm using a mix of borax and playground sand; I'm thinking I should switch to just borax. For forge-welding use pure Borax and bake it in your kitchen-oven for 2-3 hours at max temperature before use. Don't tell your mom/wife about this.
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May 25, 2014 17:01
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ArtistCeleste posted:I actually have no experience forge welding. I really need to get on that. However, I have seen someone taper it out an extra long piece and loop it around. You forge weld the two pieces and then cut the loop apart. Pagan posted:The other major type of welding is Scarf Welding. That's when you have two separate pieces and are trying to attach them.
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May 25, 2014 23:35
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I've never actually successfully forge-welded- all my attempts were done too cold or melted the iron- but everything I've heard says that straight borax should cut it for nearly all jobs, if not necessarily being the easiest or least failure-prone option; that said, proprietary blends sometimes include other boron compounds like boric acid to provide oxidation protection at lower temperatures as well, while EZ Weld (maybe other compounds??) includes very fine iron/steel shavings or millscale that melts first and helps the metals join properly, at the expense of a visible weld line.
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May 26, 2014 02:10
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Ambrose Burnside posted:I've never actually successfully forge-welded- all my attempts were done too cold or melted the iron- but everything I've heard says that straight borax should cut it for nearly all jobs, if not necessarily being the easiest or least failure-prone option; that said, proprietary blends sometimes include other boron compounds like boric acid to provide oxidation protection at lower temperatures as well, while EZ Weld (maybe other compounds??) includes very fine iron/steel shavings or millscale that melts first and helps the metals join properly, at the expense of a visible weld line. I've had mixed success; I think I've tried it 4 or 5 times. Once I got a decent weld (on a small practice piece) and I have gotten partial welds, but nothing that I can really point to and say "I did it!" What's frustrating, and what I hope the class will help with, is it seems like there are really only three steps. Get it hot, flux it, hit it with a hammer. I'm doing all of the above, so when it doesn't work, I don't know what I'm doing wrong. I'm also modifying my home made forge in the hopes that I can get better airflow, and hopefully cleaner heat.
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May 26, 2014 14:49
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Pagan posted:What's frustrating, and what I hope the class will help with, is it seems like there are really only three steps. Get it hot, flux it, hit it with a hammer. The "hit it with a hammer" should be "hit it with a hammer REALLY hard". When you're forge welding you want to use as heavy as a hammer as you can accurately swing, for the size of the piece. I use a twelve ounce ball peen for anything 7/16s or smaller, 2lb for 1/2in to 3/4in and a 5lb sledge for anything up to an inch and a half. Too heavy of a hammer and you can spread your metal too far out to be useful since the metal is in a near liquid state.
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May 26, 2014 20:58
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Kasan posted:The "hit it with a hammer" should be "hit it with a hammer REALLY hard". When you're forge welding you want to use as heavy as a hammer as you can accurately swing, for the size of the piece. I use a twelve ounce ball peen for anything 7/16s or smaller, 2lb for 1/2in to 3/4in and a 5lb sledge for anything up to an inch and a half. Too heavy of a hammer and you can spread your metal too far out to be useful since the metal is in a near liquid state. In my personal experience, hitting hard isn't nearly as important as hitting squarely (as you mentioned with "accurately swing"). I do almost all of my forge welding with a 2lb hammer, and the only times I've run into serious problems were if a) I didn't clean up the weld site well enough, or b) I struck at an angle and split the weld on one side Surprisingly, I've found that a very high temperature isn't as critical as it seems. As long as the flux is able to flow smoothly out of the weld area, stuff should stick. The method I use as follows: 1. Make sure the weld area is completely clean of scale. Usually this means heating up the piece and using a wire brush on it (Something like the wire block brushes here: http://www.piehtoolco.com/contents/en-us/d732.html ) 2. Flux the piece while it's hot, preferrably right after you clean off the scale. Straight borax works just fine, though it will tend to bubble and flake off if you put a lot on, so make sure you get the flux actually flowing into the weld area before you go back into the forge. 3. Bring the piece up to yellow heat (varies by steel, but yellow should be more than enough) 4. Pull the piece and strike the weld area firmly, but more importantly squarely. If the area to weld is larger than your hammer face, get a bigger hammer or do your weld in stages. 5. Scrape, re-flux, repeat steps 3-4 two or three times until you have no visible seams. Don't work the seam side of the weld until you're sure you're solid, and even then go lightly, or you'll split the weld. The best way to see if your weld is good is by the color of the piece as it cools down. Set one side on the anvil face to draw out heat and look at the seam area - if there's a smooth color gradation from cooler to warmer side, you're probably good. If there's a distinct demarcation in color around the seam area, odds are good you don't have a solid weld. Clean it up, flux it, and start over. For reference (and because I've been looking for an excuse to post this), the knife below was forge welded 5 times - once for the initial 7 layer weld and 4 folds after that to bring it up to 112 layers. Almost all of it was done with a 2lb hammer. 
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May 26, 2014 21:42
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Now that's the kind of poo poo I want to get into doing. Very nice knife!
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May 26, 2014 22:18
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mjan posted:3. Bring the piece up to yellow heat (varies by steel, but yellow should be more than enough)
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May 26, 2014 23:31
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engessa posted:All of your points are valid but i got told differently on point 3 (not saying you're wrong! I don't know enough about this to tell anybody they are wrong). My teacher told us to heat the iron as hot as possbible until sparks come flying off. Those sparks look like the sparks from a sparkler (the fireworks) and as soon as you see those you pull the iron out of the fire and start hammering. I guess it would depend on what you're making, but when working with high carbon steel getting it up to spark temperature is a bad thing - those sparks are actually carbon burning out of the steel. It's certainly more than hot enough to weld, but not so good for something you want to eventually harden.
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May 26, 2014 23:45
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mjan posted:In my personal experience, hitting hard isn't nearly as important as hitting squarely (as you mentioned with "accurately swing"). I do almost all of my forge welding with a 2lb hammer, and the only times I've run into serious problems were if That knife is gorgeous, and that's also my main goal for this craft. Knives and axes  Can you talk to me about your fire, when you're forge welding? What it looks like, what it's shaped like, and where you put the pieces? My pieces are always covered in coal, ash, and crud when I pull them out, even if I've fluxed. By the time I brush that off and reflux, it's cooled off a lot.
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May 27, 2014 02:22
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Welding temperature varies inversely with carbon content; so for a pattern welded knife you shouldn't be sparking much, whereas with wrought iron you'll have quite a few jumping off.
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May 27, 2014 02:35
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Pagan posted:That knife is gorgeous, and that's also my main goal for this craft. Knives and axes Thanks  I made that billet entirely within a propane forge, though I've done others using a coke forge. I've used coal for general smithing, but not for forge welding. For the propane, it was set to be reducing, meaning that the gas mix was such that most of the oxygen within the forge itself was consumed to reduce the amount of scale formed. I'd love to be more specific than that, but my instructor set it up so I really don't know any more than "make sure there are a few inches of flame shooting out of the forge." Also, we closed it up with fire brick to get it to maintain a solid temperature, with only a small opening for the work piece. The coke forge got stuff to much higher temperatures than the propane, but it was only good for working on small sections at a time. I didn't make any sort of specific shape, just mounded the coke in the center of the fire pit and put the piece to be welded in the hottest spot. When welding a full billet (4-6"), I worked in 1-2" sections at a time until the entire length was solid. I'm not sure if I'd be comfortable using coal for forge welding; I've only worked with it a handful of times and it seems to produce way, way more crap than coke. That might just be my inexperience working with it, though.
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May 27, 2014 05:49
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That's basically it. A reducing flame will reduce rust and will avoid scale production, an oxidizing flame will burn impurities out of the metal, as in a bessemer blast furnace. IIRC, a reducing flame is what you want for welding, brazing, soldering, most metalwork, while an oxidizing flame is what you want when you're using an oxy/ace torch to cut steel, for example. In fact the cutting lever on a cutting torch massively increases the amount of oxygen because you're actually burning the steel, not melting it and blowing it out. The acetylene is just there to get it up to temp and keep the fire going.
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May 27, 2014 21:56
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Did a lot of smithing over the weekend, it was nice, warm and sunny. Finished putting the primary edge on my first blade. It took about 2 hours, and I think it came out pretty nice.  Cut a piece of spring to make another blade or two.  Left two pieces I have made Saturday and Sunday. About 3 hours a piece. Very happy with the way they came out, just need to profile the shapes (including cutting the tang on the left-most blade).  Once I'm done I'll heat treat all three. Edit: aw yeah, also I managed to burn/almost-melt a piece of the third blade by inattention. It was in the forge just a bit too long and I got some wild sparks and piece of charcoal starting to stick to the piece. Does this absolutely ruin the metal, or is it salvageable? The RECAPITATOR fucked around with this message at 15:38 on Jun 2, 2014 |
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Jun 1, 2014 21:06
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Just found this video on another forum. Guess it could go about as well in AI, the DIY metalworking thread, or the DIY tools/woodworking threads  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN6pmce8X-I
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Jun 3, 2014 02:11
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The RECAPITATOR posted:Edit: aw yeah, also I managed to burn/almost-melt a piece of the third blade by inattention. It was in the forge just a bit too long and I got some wild sparks and piece of charcoal starting to stick to the piece. It's ruined. Cut off the end or part that melted and chuck it.
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Jun 3, 2014 04:18
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Well poo poo. That's a bummer.
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Jun 3, 2014 04:28
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ArtistCeleste posted:*snip So I ended up doing an oil quench. Seems like it worked right, I passed a file over the blade afterwards and it seemed to be skipping nicely. Then I tempered it using a torch, got the spine to just after blue (when it starts getting lighter again) and the blade to straw. See: (the flash really did a great job at hiding the oxidation layer gradient...)  And now I am working on the handle. Used some white cedar I had lying around and making two end caps with some more steel. I think it's going to look cool when I'm done.
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Jun 8, 2014 05:23
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Here are a couple of pictures of a copper rose I have been working on here and there for the past week. It is made from .032" copper sheet and some copper grounding wire. I am not going to polish it or coat it with anything so it can gain a natural patina on it's own. I'm a poo poo photographer, I'll get some good pictures once it is complete. 
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Jun 9, 2014 02:48
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 How'd you do it? Cut out four or five petal layer blanks, shape em and rivet them together down the centre? e: on my end, I'm doing a repousse Pusheen plaque, because I'm a hideous nerd and my friends who receive my gifts are also hideous nerds. It's not done- this is after the first chasing pass and the second repousse pass, now I'm doing to work the front over again to smooth things out, and then texture. I'm really not happy with the cat-mouth 'cause it kind of makes or breaks his expression, maybe I can tweak it a lil once I get back to it. 
Ambrose Burnside fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 02:52
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Ambrose Burnside posted:
Yep. I just laid out 4 squares on the copper sheet that measured 3.5", 3", 2.5, and 2" and cut them out. Find the center with a pair of calipers, center punch it, then use the dividers to scribe a circle to cut out. After it was cut, I split the circles into 5 equal parts and freehanded cutting the petal shapes. I have a tiny crosspein hammer with a sharp-ish point that I used to texture the edges of the petals, but you could do it with a blunt chisel. The basic shape of the petals was achieved with a hammer and a round stake, then I used a small nut and bolt to hold them together so I could bend the petals with a pair of pliers as I wished. I had to anneal several times during this process. For the stem, I took some #6 copper grounding wire and heated the tip with a torch while i tapped lightly with a hammer to upset the end to create the rivet head, then I slid them over the stem and soldered them on from the bottom. Completely forgot that I had taken some poo poo pictures of the process. Here ya go:       For anyone interested in doing this, the copper is going to be your biggest investment unless you can get free scrap somewhere. I literally did this with less than $60 worth of tools, so you can too! Also, cool fat cat! iForge fucked around with this message at 03:57 on Jun 9, 2014 |
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Jun 9, 2014 03:54
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iForge posted:Here are a couple of pictures of a copper rose I have been working on here and there for the past week. It is made from .032" copper sheet and some copper grounding wire. I am not going to polish it or coat it with anything so it can gain a natural patina on it's own. I'm a poo poo photographer, I'll get some good pictures once it is complete. Rose club.  TerminalSaint posted:I made a thing for the wife: Not much patina on mine after nearly 2 years. It's really dry here, though. 
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Jun 9, 2014 04:31
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rotor posted:there's a great walkthrough of building a screwless vice here: Hmm, I've been looking for a project for that 2"x1" aluminum stock I've got sitting around (and I'd like workholding that I don't have to worry about other people crashing.) I think I'll adapt that to my needs. A bit light duty for the machines, though... Maybe I'll do a ground cast iron version after.
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Jun 9, 2014 06:03
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What would be the best for a beginner blacksmith to create? I've already made 2 sets of tongs and one terrible hot chisel. I made a forge from a steel rim and shopvac that works quite well. I'm just confused on where to go now.
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Jun 9, 2014 15:53
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DontBeThatGuy posted:What would be the best for a beginner blacksmith to create? I've already made 2 sets of tongs and one terrible hot chisel. I made a forge from a steel rim and shopvac that works quite well. I'm just confused on where to go now. Well... what do you want to end up doing? I'd go with that, really.
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Jun 9, 2014 18:26
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The RECAPITATOR posted:Well... what do you want to end up doing? I'd go with that, really. My end goal is be able to make Damascus steel blades. I'd also like to make other ornamental things.
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Jun 9, 2014 19:10
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DontBeThatGuy posted:My end goal is be able to make Damascus steel blades. I'd also like to make other ornamental things. Well, I also have made two pairs of tongs, a hot-cut chisel and have a brake drum forge, and I'd also like to be able to make pattern welded blades. So I am thiking our progress is probably similar. I have had a poo poo ton of fun making just a regular old kitchen knife out of a piece of car spring. You could try that? I thought it would be beyond my skill, but it seems to be turning out pretty well. Probably going to be finishing it tonight after work, even.
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Jun 9, 2014 20:27
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Click through a bunch of these: http://www.anvilfire.com/iForge/ and pick out any that appeal to you and give them a try. They're organized like a series of year-long projects that would gradually teach you things, but there's no rule that says you have to do them in order. Bladesmithing requires a relatively narrow subset of the full range of blacksmithing techniques. But if you want to also make your own tools, jigs, etc. then you should learn more, and if you want to be able to change things up occasionally to make a chandelier, railing, kitchen tool, fire dogs, or artwork, you're best off learning and practicing a wide range of techniques. I took a bladesmithing class and I think it was invaluable. I'd already tried making a blade or two out of mild steel, with mixed success, so I knew how to do the very basic process of shaping a hunk of iron into something vaguely knife-shaped. But having direct instruction from an expert was amazing. My teacher was able to notice and correct issues that I wasn't even aware of, teach me little tricks to doing certain things more efficiently, and could tell me stuff like when to abandon a piece as ruined, vs. when to keep at a piece that I thought was ruined but actually wasn't. I think I might have learned most of what I got from the class, working on my own with books and videos and stuff, but it probably would have taken me five times as long. Finally, get some good books on bladesmithing. I've recommended Jim Hrisoulas in the past, but I'm sure there's others. Avoid general "knife making" sources that focus on material removal (that is, taking a cut knife blank and just grinding away everything you don't want) - they can maybe teach you some heat treatment stuff but the blacksmithing part, to me, is the cool part that makes a hand-made knife better than what you can buy in the store.
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Jun 9, 2014 21:55
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Finished my knife tonight. Last few steps. Preparing to put the final edge on the tempered blade, using my makeshift sanding block.  Preparing to make some electro-etching, using my makeshift fire hazardous etching station.  Final product (just want to put a final coat of tung oil on the handle tomorrow evening.)  Pretty happy with how it came out. A bit disappointed in the handle, but I think I learned a lot and my next one should be faster, easier and prettier. The etching looks alright in the picture, but it's a bit goofy from some angles. Maybe my outlines were too thin, or I didn't etch long enough. Was using 9V with a 15ohm resistor giving me .6 amps - used vinegar and salt and etched for about 5 minutes. Can't wait to start my next one. Got some borax, going to attempt to fold and weld a piece of spring so I can make more of a french cooking knife shape for my next one. Anyway, that's the plan, still have to figure out how I'm going to heat treat that using my brake drum forge hah
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Jun 10, 2014 03:32
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Ok I have an old lovely tablesaw, and I need a 1 1/4" arbor wrench for it. Can't find one locally or on amazon, so I decided to make my own out of (coincidence!) an old saw blade. I got it cut out ok with a grinding wheel & hacksaw and got the jaws parallel and the right size with a file, but the inside of the wrench is completely square like so: |_| | when it should be curved on the bottom like a U to match the arbor. How do I cut an inside curve like that? Metal's about 1/8" thick and very hard.
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Jun 10, 2014 05:36
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Just file it out?
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Jun 10, 2014 06:05
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Kim Jong ill posted:Just file it out? that's a lot of hard metal to file away
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Jun 10, 2014 07:37
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Drill it first and then file?
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Jun 10, 2014 07:55
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rotor posted:Ok I have an old lovely tablesaw, and I need a 1 1/4" arbor wrench for it. Can't find one locally or on amazon, so I decided to make my own out of (coincidence!) an old saw blade. I've had very good success with drilling a series of small holes in a line, cold-chiseling the metal between the holes, and cleaning up the rest with a file. You could use a diamond bit on a dremel, I'd guess.
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Jun 10, 2014 14:55
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I'd take the meat out of it with a bench grinder and finish up with a file and paper.
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Jun 10, 2014 16:06
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| # ? May 24, 2024 01:32 |
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I'm in a similar blacksmithing boat. I built a forge out of a roasting pan and a air mattress inflater. I did a lot of reading and watching a lot of youtube videos, and I have been practicing with tapering, scrolling, and basic techniques. My goal is to make pattern welded knives, too. There's a place near me that offers classes in all sorts of metalwork, from welding to jewelry. I signed up for a basic smithing class; three hours every thursday for a month. First class was last week. On one hand, I don't think I'll learn anything new, but on the other, it's nice to have an instructor looking over your shoulder. Plus, once I finish the class, I can use the shop on weekends and it's incredible. They have about 10 anvils, 1 coal forge, 2 propane forges, and just about any sort of metalworking equipment you can imagine. So I think it's a good investment. One thing I've learned, though... I have WAY too much air going into my fire. I went to a ren faire, and between that and the class, I was able to see a coal forge in proper action. The airflow is very slight; I'd estimate maybe like a soft breeze? I had mine ROARING. So to those of you using shop vacs and other things, you're probably running way too much air. I spent about $20 on Amazon to get a 120mm computer case fan, a power supply for it, and a speed controller. I'm hoping I can rig it up and get my airflow down to proper levels. I consider stock removal knife making to be kinda cheating, but it's still something you should try. I've made two knives that way, and even though there was only a little forging, I'm glad I was able to practice handle making and sharpening. One of the posts I read on a smithing forum said that making wooden knives or swords was good practice. After all, if you can't make it out of wood, you'll never make it out of metal.
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Jun 10, 2014 19:33
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