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Moridin920 posted:Doesn't matter, here's what happens in reality: Inch deep and a mile wide. I'd be happy if my students could remember what I taught them last week.
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May 26, 2014 02:19
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| # ? Jun 9, 2024 20:47 |
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did anyone else take a year of geometry in which you did not actually learn anything new it was fun if you like brain teasers but christ what a waste of time fun story: we moved from a rural town to an inner-city school district and i mostly waited 3 years for the curriculum of almost all subjects to catch up before i could learn anything again it wasnt even much of a city
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May 26, 2014 02:27
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I've never heard a good argument about academics that began with complaints about rote memorization.
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May 26, 2014 02:34
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argondamn posted:I've never heard a good argument about academics that began with complaints about rote memorization.
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May 26, 2014 02:36
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You don't teach intuition by adding explicit steps, and basic arithmetic should be a practical skill instead of a grand entry into the magical world of mathematics
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May 26, 2014 02:37
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Lightanchor posted:You don't teach intuition by adding explicit steps, and basic arithmetic should be a practical skill instead of a grand entry into the magical world of mathematics sorry but this thread requires references now, before you give your opinion you will need to either give your credentials or cite a source for your argument.
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May 26, 2014 02:38
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who set the gbs time machine to 1.0
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May 26, 2014 02:39
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I have a P.H.D. in tenuously caring about dumb internet arguments where nothing's at stake
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May 26, 2014 02:40
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argondamn posted:I've never heard a good argument about academics that began with complaints about rote memorization. The funny thing about education theorists is that they always crusade against rote memorization and pledge to replace it with these awesome new learning strategies and ideas that require... rote memorization for the kids to learn them. Only now instead of memorizing times tables kids are trying to memorize strategies to apply to different equations, or instead of doing vocabulary work and phonics kids are learning "reading strategies" that don't do poo poo. The amount of kids I have that can't tell me when America's Independence Day is (July 4th, 1776) is astounding. But then again, most public schools in poor areas have completely cut social studies (and science) from their curriculum in the early grades. I can already see middle schools moving to make social studies classes fancy reading classes, and after that, well, got to make sure high school kids can read information texts right???
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May 26, 2014 02:56
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I blame western decadence,video games, fast food, etc.
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May 26, 2014 02:58
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I blame schools that don't teach relevant curriculum to kids and go 'you're either going to college or not, and if you're not you get put in the 'dumb' classes and nobody pays attention to you, have fun.' Then even if you do succeed all the system really does is teach you how to be a hard worker to build up some rear end in a top hat's company even more. It doesn't teach you anything about solving social problems or interacting with other people. No trade skills for anyone because the only kids that matter are the college bound ones. Then people wonder why kids don't give a poo poo. Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 03:03 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 03:00
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Lightanchor posted:I have a P.H.D. in tenuously caring about dumb internet arguments where nothing's at stake i hope that's from a credentialed institution?
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May 26, 2014 03:02
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So glad I'm done with school forever
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May 26, 2014 03:16
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Topeka State
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May 26, 2014 03:17
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May 26, 2014 03:26
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We are all going to upload into robot bodies one day. Might as well get down with the inevitable and teach our kids binary.
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May 26, 2014 03:27
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Lightanchor posted:You don't teach intuition by adding explicit steps, and basic arithmetic should be a practical skill instead of a grand entry into the magical world of mathematics We shouldn't teach real math until they had at least 10 years of bullshit rote memorization problems. Once they get those basic skills under their belts, then they can have a grand entry into the magical world of mathematics. We should also teach music by having kids write perfect compositions before we let them pick up any precious instrument. After 10 years of writing fugues and memorizing the circle of fifths, then they can grab a recorder.
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May 26, 2014 03:32
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Americans failing is only a good thing
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May 26, 2014 03:35
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Gulzin posted:We shouldn't teach real math until they had at least 10 years of bullshit rote memorization problems. Once they get those basic skills under their belts, then they can have a grand entry into the magical world of mathematics. More like, we should teach kids how to read basic sheet music long before we teach them harmonics. It's often important to be able to add and subtract two digit numbers quickly and how to add and subtract larger numbers if necessary, so it's good to teach that to children.
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May 26, 2014 03:49
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You can teach that subtraction is just inverse addition by saying it, out loud, when it's relevant and they're old enough to understand. As far as recognizing the useful aspects of base 10 numbering goes,
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May 26, 2014 03:53
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Lightanchor posted:More like, we should teach kids how to read basic sheet music long before we teach them harmonics. It's often important to be able to add and subtract two digit numbers quickly and how to add and subtract larger numbers if necessary, so it's good to teach that to children. Oh, so when was the last time you had to quickly add and subtract two digit numbers quickly? Were you faster than a calculator? Also, if you had to do it quickly, did you do it with pen and paper, because common core's method makes it MUCH easier to do in your head? Quickly do 42-29. By common core's method it is easy to do in your head: 29+1=30, 30+10=40, 40+2=42, so 1+10+2=13. Now do it quickly with the borrow method. Edit: Lightanchor posted:You can teach that subtraction is just inverse addition by saying it, out loud, when it's relevant and they're old enough to understand. As far as recognizing the useful aspects of base 10 numbering goes, It is? So you have teaching experience? Please tell me your amazing method here, because I have college students who still don't get this. Gulzin fucked around with this message at 03:57 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 03:55
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cant these idiots just teach their kids about differentials, integrals, and 3rd+ order tensors like regular idiots
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May 26, 2014 03:56
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the top one is just shorthand for the bottom one though
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May 26, 2014 03:56
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Look, it seems you guys don't understand the way this works. I made a couple phone calls to a few guys that were on the Washington state board that helped setup the adoption of the CC standards in our state (OSPI). They said this: "Rhonyn, tell your friends that it is very complex, however: They say we are only using a fraction of our brain's true potential. That's when we are going about our daily lives. When we are learning, our mind can do almost anything. Imagine you are, in this case, learning math. You consciously create each part of the math situation. Sometimes it feels like it is creating itself. This is Genuine Inspiration. Now, when learning, our mind continuously does this: we create and learn in our surroundings simultaneously. Our mind does it so well we don't even know it is happening. The Common Core allows us to get right in the middle of that process by taking over the creative part." I hope that cleared up a great deal of the confusion surrounding this for you guys. I know it did for me!
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May 26, 2014 03:59
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Gulzin posted:Oh, so when was the last time you had to quickly add and subtract two digit numbers quickly? Were you faster than a calculator?
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May 26, 2014 04:04
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gary oldmans diary posted:you are kidding with all of this right It is how most people who figure it out do mental arithmetic. I wouldn't do it exactly like that, but when I teach I always do addition/subtraction/multiplication in my head. 42-29 is computed like this for me: 29+10=39. 39+3=42. So 13. Have you not read all the posts of people saying: "so they are just teaching how we do it in our heads" in here? Here is the other perspective. Most of my students cannot subtract and multiply two digit numbers in courses I have taught that are below Calculus I. So in my limited experience, your method is failing there too. Edit: I would gladly deal with them not knowing how to multiply by hand if they actually understand how number systems worked. If I had a college algebra student understand that x/2= 1/2*x, I'd deal with them not knowing 11*12=132. Gulzin fucked around with this message at 04:10 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 04:08
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gary oldmans diary posted:you are kidding with all of this right Do enough math and in the same way you unthinkingly know that 'can not' is the same thing as 'can't,' you will also know that '6' is the same thing as '4+2.' If you saw 4 + 2, it'd resolve automatically. You'd just know it reflexively. No thought required, no attention spent. It resolves automatically. Chunk up larger problems into auto-resolving chunks. The math does itself.
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May 26, 2014 04:10
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Well it is pretty sad when adults can't add/subtract 2 digit numbers.Accretionist posted:Do enough math and in the same way you unthinkingly know that 'can not' is the same thing as 'can't,' you will also know that '6' is the same thing as '4+2.' If you saw 4 + 2, it'd resolve automatically. You'd just know it reflexively. No thought required, no attention spent. It resolves automatically. Chunk up larger problems into auto-resolving chunks. The math does itself. much like how I will instinctively deliver a savage roundhouse kick to my assailants.
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May 26, 2014 04:10
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"my" method works worldwide when i see a 2-digit math problem i know the answer faster than i could reach for a calculator youre nuts
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May 26, 2014 04:11
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gary oldmans diary posted:"my" method works worldwide It worked for you. Great. It also worked for me. I then learned other methods that were better. It did not work for many others. This is the problem.
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May 26, 2014 04:12
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Moridin920 posted:the top one is just shorthand for the bottom one though Nope. The bottom one is CEDFADBACBDCECDC Who the gently caress learns treble clef like that anyways? I always learned "FACE in the space" and then the rest was easy.
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May 26, 2014 04:12
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Gulzin posted:Oh, so when was the last time you had to quickly add and subtract two digit numbers quickly? Were you faster than a calculator? Given that it takes me at least a few seconds to hit the start button, type 'calc' and hit enter, then wait for the calculator to come up and type the numbers in, yeah I can loving do 42-29 in my head faster than a calculator. Cowman posted:Nope. The bottom one is CEDFADBACBDCECDC saw that after I posted but my point was that one isn't replacing the other at all it's not like bach wrote all his music like CEDFADBACBDCECDC and then we all started using sheet music in the 1900s or something
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May 26, 2014 04:12
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Moridin920 posted:Given that it takes me at least a few seconds to hit the start button, type 'calc' and hit enter, then wait for the calculator to come up and type the numbers in, yeah I can loving do 42-29 in my head faster than a calculator. And I add and subtract 9-10 digit numbers with ease (I can do 3-4 digit multiplications). I have also gotten good at estimating weird divisions in my head. I am also trying to convey that their method is EVEN better than yours. But hey, if it worked for you, it'll work for everyone, right? E: even Art Benjamin hasn't mastered 9-10 digit numbers in his head. Also, anyone can get good at mental math if they just practice it enough. Gulzin fucked around with this message at 04:18 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 04:15
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Common Core will fail since it doesn't solve the actual problems. 1. Math isn't 'cool' 2. Math takes effort and kids are lazy 3. Parents are stupid and don't care
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May 26, 2014 04:15
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Gulzin posted:And I add and subtract 9-10 digit numbers with ease (I can do 3-4 digit multiplications). I have also gotten good at estimating weird divisions in my head. I am also trying to convey that their method is EVEN better than yours. Nah if the math people think it's good then I'll let them do their thing. It's just kind of surprising to me that people need to work an algorithm in their head to do basic arithmetic, that's all.
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May 26, 2014 04:19
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Moridin920 posted:Nah if the math people think it's good then I'll let them do their thing. It always starts that way until they master the underlying system. Again (and I should say this on every page), common core will not solve all of our woes. It is just a step in the right direction.
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May 26, 2014 04:20
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that breaking apart numbers to make 10 to make subtraction easier thing is actually pretty friggin good i mean, i could subtract mentally before, but its a good shortcut that i'll probably use in my day to day life edit: i only read the first page juggalo baby coffin fucked around with this message at 04:25 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 04:23
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Gulzin posted:It worked for you. Great. It did not work for many others. Gulzin posted:And I add and subtract 9-10 digit numbers with ease (I can do 3-4 digit multiplications). I have also gotten good at estimating weird divisions in my head. I am also trying to convey that their method is EVEN better than yours.
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May 26, 2014 04:23
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gary oldmans diary posted:so you are saying this solves a global problem in mathematical education that is for some reason mostly just emergent in the usa; that even though the correlation is precisely with the a low-standards curriculum change that its actually the mathematical processes themselves that are to blame for just not being adequately adaptable to the No, but many of the top scoring math countries already re-aligned their curriculum to be better than ours (see Finland). I would rather we take a step in the right direction, rather than saying "COMMON CORE SUCKS. IT IS CRAZY MATH NOONE WOULD EVER DO!". Also, this isn't to realign it to the human brain, this is to introduce the more important underlying mathematical concepts at the cost of teaching new, slower algorithms. Upping standards would solve many of our problems, but you can guess why that wont happen any time soon. Edit: I would get a calculator.
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May 26, 2014 04:26
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commoncore my fav type of punk rock
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May 26, 2014 04:27
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