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Install Windows posted:So don't smoke pot. None of those businesses are likely to start being ok with you smoking pot even if it gets legalized federally. They're not testing you for smoking pot because of its illegality. What evidence do you have that employee drug testing improves workplace safety?
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May 26, 2014 03:36
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MaxxBot posted:Earlier in the thread you said it could show up for 36 hours, so it could show up especially if I smoked a few joints, even though I certainly wouldn't be impaired the day after. 36 hours being at an outside shot dude. It's impossible to make a magic test that only catches if the act was done just then. LuciferMorningstar posted:This is an absolutely asinine sentiment. As long as an employee is able to adequately perform his or her job, it shouldn't matter what they choose to do in their free time. Advocating that people not do a given activity because businesses don't like it only further enhances the excessive amounts of power those business already have. They didn't adequately perform their job if they're causing accidents leading to serious injury at work. KingEup posted:What evidence do you have that employee drug testing improves workplace safety? Why don't you go ask your strawman you just built?
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May 26, 2014 04:14
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Install Windows posted:They didn't adequately perform their job if they're causing accidents leading to serious injury at work. When you say "So don't smoke pot," I take it you mean at all, whatsoever, because according to you, business hate pot regardless of whether or not it's legal.
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May 26, 2014 04:17
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Install Windows posted:They didn't adequately perform their job if they're causing accidents leading to serious injury at work. Install Windows posted:didn't adequately perform their job if they're causing accidents Install Windows posted:causing accidents Maybe you could take a break from this thread, you're spouting some stupid poo poo. Like, not your normal pedantry, but really really idiotic stuff.
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May 26, 2014 04:18
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Install Windows posted:They didn't adequately perform their job if they're causing accidents leading to serious injury at work. So you're not an adequate employee unless you literally never make mistakes? Why are you completely ignoring accidents caused by another employee that could cause injury to someone else? They could still be tested because they were technically involved even though they weren't the cause. Also as multiple people pointed out before many places will consider something like being bitten by a dog an accident, how the gently caress do you avoid that?
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May 26, 2014 04:21
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Maybe you could take a break from this thread, you're spouting some stupid poo poo. Like, not your normal pedantry, but really really idiotic stuff. I have been talking about people drug tested after accidents at work the entire time, you're the one being an idiot here. LuciferMorningstar posted:When you say "So don't smoke pot," I take it you mean at all, whatsoever, because according to you, business hate pot regardless of whether or not it's legal. If you know, like that guy apparently does, that every business in your area apparently hates pot, then you should not use it at all. Somehow I expect he's exaggerating that all the places that would hire him are against it but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt there. Businesses do not put in drug testing policies just because the drugs they test for are illegal, they will often test for drugs that are legal as well. MaxxBot posted:So you're not an adequate employee unless you literally never make mistakes? Why are you completely ignoring accidents caused by another employee that could cause injury to someone else? They could still be tested because they were technically involved even though they weren't the cause. Also as multiple people pointed out before many places will consider something like being bitten by a dog an accident, how the gently caress do you avoid that? Don't smoke pot if you're at a company that will blood test you for dogs biting you. But I think that's probably not a likely scenario to begin with. And again, having a joint after work the day before should not show up the middle of the next day either.
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May 26, 2014 04:23
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Install Windows posted:If you know, like that guy apparently does, that every business in your area apparently hates pot, then you should not use it at all. Somehow I expect he's exaggerating that all the places that would hire him are against it but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt there. It's mandated by insurance companies. Businesses don't hate pot, but they'll take any chance they won't have to pay an insurance claim. Why are you standing up for corporate drug testing? You've yet to give a valid reason for it to exist, but have spouted inane statements like "So don't smoke pot" and "causing accidents".
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May 26, 2014 04:25
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:It's mandated by insurance companies. Businesses don't hate pot, but they'll take any chance they won't have to pay an insurance claim. Because testing for what someone was on when bad poo poo happens makes complete and total sense as well as being sensibly required by insurers. I'm sorry this hurts your feelings but it gets done for alcohol too, even though it's legal, and normal people are ok with that.
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May 26, 2014 04:28
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Install Windows posted:Because testing for what someone was on when bad poo poo happens makes complete and total sense as well as being sensibly required by insurers. I'm sorry this hurts your feelings but it gets done for alcohol too, even though it's legal, and normal people are ok with that. Because alcohol will show up one on of these tests when you've drank in the past hour. That's sensible. Losing your job because you smoked pot off-duty is not sensible. I can't believe I had to spell this out like this for you. Like I said, you definitely need a break from this thread (or the internet)!
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May 26, 2014 04:33
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Because alcohol will show up one on of these tests when you've drank in the past hour. That's sensible. Alcohol will show up on those tests if you drank in the past day too. Where are you even getting the idea that you'd lose your job automatically? Most of the time it simply makes you more liable/can make it so someone doesn't have to pay out to you. Companies that never drug test the rest of the time nor fire you for using weed will still care if you got in an accident and it turned up that you were on something at the time. You need to take a break because you don't understand what you're talking about.
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May 26, 2014 04:35
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Install Windows posted:Don't smoke pot if you're at a company that will blood test you for dogs biting you. But I think that's probably not a likely scenario to begin with. Given the realities of employment at the moment for most people your advise could be distilled down to what I bolded. Your position is in practice identical to that of a prohibitionist, with the exception that the cops aren't likely to get me fired. What you advocate is literally more onerous than prohibition. It's really pointless for me to continue at this point given that fact.
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May 26, 2014 04:36
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Install Windows posted:Where are you even getting the idea that you'd lose your job automatically? From the job I lost, you tremendous rear end in a top hat. Stop posting until you understand the issue we're discussing. EDIT: I missed this you edited in that shows exactly how little you know. Install Windows posted:And again, having a joint after work the day before should not show up the middle of the next day either.
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May 26, 2014 04:38
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MaxxBot posted:Given the realities of employment at the moment for most people your advise could be distilled down to what I bolded. Your position is in practice identical to that of a prohibitionist, with the exception that the cops aren't likely to get me fired. What you advocate is literally more onerous than prohibition. It's really pointless for me to continue at this point given that fact. Yes so don't do it. You keep talking about how every company is out to get you if you do it, so don't. Welcome to "freedom to fire" America, where you can be fired at any time for just about anything. Fact is the tests they do in cases of accident are almost always tests that will not, in fact, show up positive results unless you really were using the various drugs very very recently. So it's not a case of someone doing it a week ago and totally getting rooked on the deal. Pyroxene Stigma posted:From the job I lost, you tremendous rear end in a top hat. Stop posting until you understand the issue we're discussing. Congrats on losing your job. This does not mean that all accident testing involves firing people. Thanks for confirming you don't understand how blood testing for weed usage works.
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May 26, 2014 04:41
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Install Windows posted:Thanks for confirming you don't understand how blood testing for weed usage works. How many establishments are ordering blood tests for on the job accidents? They're urine tests, way to betray your ignorance yet again.
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May 26, 2014 04:42
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Install Windows posted:If you know, like that guy apparently does, that every business in your area apparently hates pot, then you should not use it at all. Somehow I expect he's exaggerating that all the places that would hire him are against it but I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt there. You really loving expect me to inquire on a companies attitudes towards illegal drug use before I interview there? I'm really having a hard time believing these are even serious posts at this point, or you live in a different country or different reality than I do.
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May 26, 2014 04:44
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:How many establishments are ordering blood tests for on the job accidents? They're urine tests, way to betray your ignorance yet again. Very many do these days, as blood tests catch more things than just a urine test will, and allow the companies to more conclusively prove that X person involved was on Y substance, and so they don't have to pay out. MaxxBot posted:You really loving expect me to inquire on a companies attitudes towards illegal drug use before I interview there? I'm really having a hard time believing these are even serious posts at this point, or you live in a different country or different reality than I do. They do tend to put that in the pre-hiring material if they care about it. Like usually right on the application forms.
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May 26, 2014 04:49
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Install Windows posted:They do tend to put that in the pre-hiring material if they care about it. Like usually right on the application forms. I would absolutely 100% guarantee that none of the companies I would ever apply for would have material that signifies anything other than an completely unequivocal opposition to any illegal drug use of any kind, even if a distinction were made (it wouldn't be) between use on personal time and use on the job. If you could produce such material that differed from that from any large US corporation I would be shocked.
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May 26, 2014 04:59
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MaxxBot posted:I would absolutely 100% guarantee that none of the companies I would ever apply for would have material that signifies anything other than an completely unequivocal opposition to any illegal drug use of any kind, even if a distinction were made (it wouldn't be) between use on personal time and use on the job. If you could produce such material that differed from that from any large US corporation I would be shocked. Ok, so you know the company wouldn't want you to smoke weed. Doesn't that sum it up for you enough? Why would you need to ask them more about it?
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May 26, 2014 05:02
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MaxxBot posted:I would be shocked. I'd be shocked if he could back up any idiotic claim made here. This is completely insane.
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May 26, 2014 05:02
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Install Windows posted:Ok, so you know the company wouldn't want you to smoke weed. Doesn't that sum it up for you enough? Why would you need to ask them more about it? OK so you are in practice a prohibitionist then, you support legal pot but also support the 99% of companies who don't want their workers smoking. Glad we cleared that up. If you disagree with my 99% figure, I'm sure you'll produce just tons of that literature I asked for from pot-friendly corporations. I'd also love to see some literature on barring standard office worker types from drinking alcohol in their free time, since you so adamantly insist that pot and alcohol are treated identically from an employer standpoint. MaxxBot fucked around with this message at 05:22 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 05:12
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MaxxBot posted:OK so you are in practice a prohibitionist then, you support legal pot but also support the 99% of companies who don't want their workers smoking. Glad we cleared that up. I don't "support" them, and I doubt it's actually 99%. I'm just saying that it exists, and it's not exactly hard to figure out. Also funny that you use smoking by itself - a lot of companies do also not want people to smoke tobacco at all.
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May 26, 2014 05:23
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Install Windows posted:I don't "support" them, and I doubt it's actually 99%. I'm just saying that it exists, and it's not exactly hard to figure out. Also funny that you use smoking by itself - a lot of companies do also not want people to smoke tobacco at all. Every retail establishment I've worked for will bend over to give you cigarette breaks. In fact, I've only run into tobacco issues in healthcare. How white and insulated are you?
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May 26, 2014 05:25
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OK cool I'll just be here waiting for that literature banning typical employees from drinking or smoking outside of work and/or condoning illegal drug use outside of work. I'm sure it will be easy since there are apparently so many of them.
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May 26, 2014 05:26
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Every retail establishment I've worked for will bend over to give you cigarette breaks. In fact, I've only run into tobacco issues in healthcare. That's nice, but a lot of jobs actively push people off tobacco when they can, to say nothing of how it's often illegal to smoke in or around most buildings in many states. How white are you? MaxxBot posted:OK cool I'll just be here waiting for that literature banning typical employees from drinking or smoking outside of work and/or condoning illegal drug use outside of work. I'm sure it will be easy since there are apparently so many of them. I don't understand why you're obsessed with literature. Companies that don't want you using will be sure to say it upfront, companies that don't have a problem won't take the time to mention it.
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May 26, 2014 05:29
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You're the one who loving brought it and I ran with it because your inability to produce it shows how full of poo poo you are. You insist that there are businesses that are cool with illegal drug use in your free time and others who don't allow smoking and drinking on your own time and now you can't even provide an example, yet you claim this poo poo is widespread. This is a loving joke at this point, I think I've made my point.
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May 26, 2014 05:33
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MaxxBot posted:You're the one who loving brought it and I ran with it because your inability to produce it shows how full of poo poo you are. You insist that there are businesses that are cool with illegal drug use in your free time and others who don't allow smoking and drinking on your own time and now you can't even provide an example, yet you claim this poo poo is widespread. All I said is that companies that don't want you smoking weed at all will tell you about that upfront. Why this has you demanding proof that companies do that is a mystery to me.
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May 26, 2014 05:35
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Install Windows posted:That's nice, but a lot of jobs actively push people off tobacco when they can, to say nothing of how it's often illegal to smoke in or around most buildings in many states. Again, I've only run into this applying for healthcare positions. Please provide evidence for any of your impossible claims, to say nothing about how stupid your deflecting my question is.
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May 26, 2014 05:39
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Pyroxene Stigma posted:Again, I've only run into this applying for healthcare positions. Please provide evidence for any of your impossible claims, to say nothing about how stupid your deflecting my question is. You've already run into this happening, yet in the next sentence you doubt it happens. That's a weird thing to say.
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May 26, 2014 05:41
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Nintendo Kid posted:You've already run into this happening, yet in the next sentence you doubt it happens. That's a weird thing to say. "Lots of places" is different from "one kind of place," and jobs that push you away from tobacco usually do it for practical reasons, like not exploding in a high oxygen environment or smoking around ill people.
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May 26, 2014 07:42
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Inspector Hound posted:"Lots of places" is different from "one kind of place," and jobs that push you away from tobacco usually do it for practical reasons, like not exploding in a high oxygen environment or smoking around ill people. Or because they don't want smokers on their insurance. Or because the management simply doesn't like smokers.
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May 26, 2014 07:45
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Companies banning their employees from smoking cigarettes is common enough that many states passed laws making it illegal. Here's a county in florida that won't hire smokers: http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080520/NEWS/805200406/1661 Here's a hospital in Philadephia doing the same thing: http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/cancer/articles/2012/01/13/at-more-us-workplaces-smokers-need-not-apply Canadian internet services company: http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/04/05/we-drink-we-swear-we-dont-f-ing-smoke-firms-ban-on-hiring-smokers-leaves-people-asking-whos-next/ Google "smokers need not apply" if you want more. Smoking tobacco outside during breaks or at home after work is hardly "around ill people" also, it's pretty broad. There are plenty of companies that don't have policies against drug use at home by their employees. For medical marijuana patients in Arizona and Rhode Island, it is actually illegal for them to. I've worked for several with no policies against it. Obviously no company has "420 pass the bluntz" in their employee handbook but certainly not every company explicitly forbids it at home. Don't generalize solely from your own experience. PS What's with the "how white and insulated are you?", why would you post that poo poo in D&D? Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 09:56 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 09:53
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CO Governor, originally opposed to cannabis legalisation, is coming around:quote:In Colorado, even the formerly skeptical governor says his initial fears are being balanced in part by benefits. It almost as though people have other reasons for abstaining from cannabis than just 'it's illegal!' KingEup fucked around with this message at 02:51 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 02:47
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KingEup posted:CO Governor, originally opposed to cannabis legalisation, is coming around: What is funniest to me about this is that studies from European countries in which drugs are decriminalized have already shown that these outcomes are pretty typical. Why, oh why, do we not make use of the knowledge we have accumulated thus far? 
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May 27, 2014 02:59
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LuciferMorningstar posted:What is funniest to me about this is that studies from European countries in which drugs are decriminalized have already shown that these outcomes are pretty typical. Why, oh why, do we not make use of the knowledge we have accumulated thus far? EUROPEAN knowledge!?!?!?!? No thanks, we'll figure it out ourselves, but better!
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May 27, 2014 03:19
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LuciferMorningstar posted:What is funniest to me about this is that studies from European countries in which drugs are decriminalized have already shown that these outcomes are pretty typical. Why, oh why, do we not make use of the knowledge we have accumulated thus far? You just don't get it! Our...
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May 27, 2014 03:20
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For the life of me I can remember where I read it, but apparently there are some businesses that do pre-employment drug screens, but only hire people who test positive for pot.
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May 27, 2014 19:15
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http://america.aljazeera.com/watch/shows/america-tonight/articles/2014/5/19/could-this-a-miracleadrughelpmillionsofamericanaddicts.html I wouldn't mind seeing a push to make other potentially useful substances like ibogaine legal, especially for drugs that are currently schedule 1 but have no major health dangers and are not addictive. At the very least, it seems like their proponents are taking the legalization of medical marijuana as a good sign that its about time they start getting the move on as well. For those unaware, ibogaine is an "anti-addictive", the studies have indicated basically kill addictions in 80%-98% of the patients who use it after a single dose, for good (People can get re-addicted later, it doesn't prevent that, but they report that any sort of compulsion is basically gone). It's been shown to be effective for drugs ranging from meth to oxy to nicotine. It's also a pretty powerful hallucinogen. GlyphGryph fucked around with this message at 19:22 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 19:19
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Beaters posted:For the life of me I can remember where I read it, but apparently there are some businesses that do pre-employment drug screens, but only hire people who test positive for pot. No I swear I really do smoke weed I just quit while job interviewing!
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May 27, 2014 19:25
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Beaters posted:For the life of me I can remember where I read it, but apparently there are some businesses that do pre-employment drug screens, but only hire people who test positive for pot. A few pages back there was a poster who got turned down for a budtender job at a dispensary for not smoking, but that's seems like an obvious one.
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May 27, 2014 20:24
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Nintendo Kid posted:Saliva tests aren't quite "trusted" yet but they're looking like they might be promising. The temp agency I've been using in Colorado uses a saliva test, from before legalization was NO more than a twinkle in someone's eye. EDIT because I tipe gud. Moktaro fucked around with this message at 23:19 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 23:07
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