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 Neat graph of the distribution of English people in Scotland.
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May 26, 2014 04:32
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So how difficult is it to emigrate to Canada? I'm genuinely terrified of some authoritarian Tory / UKIP coalition being formed next year.Extreme0 posted:Here here. Hate to be one of those people but this really bugs me: it's 'hear'.
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May 26, 2014 04:47
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Everything is hosed, forever, kill whitey.
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May 26, 2014 06:08
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Why are people voting for UKIP? I refuse to believe they are that stupid.
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May 26, 2014 06:38
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^^^ Hahahahahahaha
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May 26, 2014 07:09
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Christ. 40% turnout for an election effecting the lives of 500million people. Golden Dawn won some goddamn seats. The only good thing I can say is the Greens won some seats, and our oddball racists are actually less overtly racist and fascist than the European right wingers which is just depressing. The Roma are hosed, for a start.
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May 26, 2014 07:13
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Rather Dashing posted:So how difficult is it to emigrate to Canada? I'm genuinely terrified of some authoritarian Tory / UKIP coalition being formed next year.
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May 26, 2014 07:41
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Regarde Aduck posted:We're basically turning into America. IE a country that should have had a modern civil war by now. One side has remained centre left but the opposite has shifted far right. Just like Democrats vs Republicans. No longer will it be about voting in those who you believe have the best policies. Now you vote to keep the insanity at bay. The general public, those lovable pieces of poo poo, have unleashed a monster. As much fun as the fear mongering is, this is complete bullshit.
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May 26, 2014 07:41
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there are some elements of americanization in extant coalitions, most visible in the shift of women from Tory to Labour
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May 26, 2014 07:48
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So what do you guys think of your future Prime Minister Nigel Farage?
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May 26, 2014 07:58
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DJ Dizzy posted:Why are people voting for UKIP? I refuse to believe they are that stupid. British public wrong about nearly everything, survey shows.
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May 26, 2014 07:58
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ronya posted:americanization It's closer than we think. 
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May 26, 2014 08:09
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has there been a time, ever, where a western country was surveyed on the question "do you think immigration is too high/low" and not had respondents overwhelmingly scream TOO HIGH TOO HIGH
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May 26, 2014 08:11
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Jippa posted:It's closer than we think. I confess to not actually being born in britane
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May 26, 2014 08:12
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Argh UKIP why. At least the BNP has been pushed over into nothingness, there was a time when they were the terror. Gotta love the media portrayal of Farage as the kind of relatable guy you see in the pub, I could certainly relate him to idiots in the pub. Whelp, general election next year. Let's all turn right-wing because a fringe party did well. Some logic there.
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May 26, 2014 08:15
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DJ Dizzy posted:Why are people voting for UKIP? I refuse to believe they are that stupid. Not stupid, gullible or racist. Take your pick.
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May 26, 2014 08:20
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Serotonin posted:Not stupid, gullible or racist. Take your pick. Also scared and whipped up into a panic by the media.
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May 26, 2014 08:24
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the "it's the right wing media" hypothesis seems implausible given that publics are still broadly majority anti-immigration even with a cheerleading media, I think e: specifically, thinking of Singapore, which has gone through an anti-immigration tizzy lately
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May 26, 2014 08:25
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Hey guys. Well shame about the main three but I think we can all agree that the best man won Eh? Tally-ho chaps.
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May 26, 2014 08:25
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ronya posted:there are some elements of americanization in extant coalitions, most visible in the shift of women from Tory to Labour Yeah, I totally agree about the americanisation of our politics, but saying that the US should have had a civil war because of differences between the two main parties is just absurd.
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May 26, 2014 08:36
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Have you guys never heard of the concept of seeing someone up to fail? Vote UKIP in the GE, watch them crash and burn, and hopefully a lot of people will learn a lesson about voting on casual politics.
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May 26, 2014 08:39
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Well, they did have a civil war. It just wasn't a modern one. This mutes the "y'all the same mutually atrocity-perpetrating bastards" shtick that tends to resonate in modern wars. Let me point out that the idea the European (and UK) politics is generally more elitist, in the non-abstract sense of generally producing policy that reflects the opinions of policy experts, think tanks, governing bureaucrats, &c. than the wider public as compared to the US is a mainstream one it's not true for just EU issues, it's also true for e.g., belief in climate change, belief in the benefits of (non-EU-specific) immigration and other common neoliberal policies more generally edit: EvilGenius posted:Have you guys never heard of the concept of setting someone up to fail? Vote UKIP in the GE, watch them crash and burn, and hopefully a lot of people will learn a lesson about voting on casual politics. kindly do not do this; it is very easy to hurt immigrants in particular without seriously hurting one's government. it is especially true for the demographics of UK immigration, which is heavily family-driven (i.e., via marriage and dependents) rather than via illegal immigration or skilled immigration ronya fucked around with this message at 08:45 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 08:42
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The point is that the Republicans and the Democrats are divergent across an increasingly narrow spectrum of politics and represent the same interests; stating they've grown apart to the brink of war is a basic misunderstanding of the situation.
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May 26, 2014 08:47
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ronya posted:the "it's the right wing media" hypothesis seems implausible given that publics are still broadly majority anti-immigration even with a cheerleading media, I think It doesn't hep. When people can't get a council house because the list is too long and people keep jumping ahead of them there's the media talking about how many immigrants are given social housing. When people can't find a job or all the jobs they can find are zero hour minimum wage ones there's the media talking about how immigrants are getting all the jobs. When they have to wait for months for an appointment with a specialist there's the media talking about how the NHS is drowning under the pressure of all the immigrants. When their benefits get cut there's the media taking about all the immigrants coming over here to claim benefits. I know these things aren't true, maybe some people don't and that's why they vote for UKIP.
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May 26, 2014 08:49
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it doesn't help, sure, but they'll blame immigrants regardless of what the media says because it'll be their chain mail and/or bloke in the pub telling them about the immigrant that was in front of them in the jobseeker's agency today. People believe the Daily Mail because the Daily Mail tells them what they want to hear, not the other way around; if the Mail said something else it'll just be dismissed as a mouthpiece of the shadowy conspiracy du jour (which in today's Britain seems to be some nebulous "PC crowd"). these facts are not hard to find out. Forty years ago you could point and say: well, okay, people are cruelly dependent on literature disseminated by parties and campaigners and tabloids, so misinformation is all they have. But today it's five minutes with Google. people don't want to know
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May 26, 2014 08:54
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The Supreme Court posted:The point is that the Republicans and the Democrats are divergent across an increasingly narrow spectrum of politics and represent the same interests; stating they've grown apart to the brink of war is a basic misunderstanding of the situation. this was true during the decades leading up to the Civil War too - the faultlines between the Whigs and the Democrats changed abruptly. Functionally it was one set of (industrial) business interests against another set of (agricultural) business interests. Abolitionism was not anticipated, which is why the Republican position had to evolve so quickly
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May 26, 2014 09:05
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Broniki posted:
Go gently caress yourself, you racist piece of poo poo.
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May 26, 2014 09:14
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Atleast I can point and laugh if your new overlord Farage, aPM of the People, decides to pull the plug on EU
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May 26, 2014 09:29
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ronya posted:it doesn't help, sure, but they'll blame immigrants regardless of what the media says because it'll be their chain mail and/or bloke in the pub telling them about the immigrant that was in front of them in the jobseeker's agency today. People believe the Daily Mail because the Daily Mail tells them what they want to hear, not the other way around; if the Mail said something else it'll just be dismissed as a mouthpiece of the shadowy conspiracy du jour (which in today's Britain seems to be some nebulous "PC crowd"). I think you're really underestimating the power the press has in this, as they are often the starting point of the Things That Everybody Knows, and because certain papers now only like to report What Everybody Knows you really quickly get into a vicious echo chamber. To take a trivial - and trivially-debunked - example, how many people "know" that they've banned Christmas in Birmingham? Or that the council have installed Muslim-only public toilets in Bradford? These are stupid, ridiculous lies that started with a gross misrepresentation of actual events, whipped up by a press who wanted to fit stories to (what they perceived to be) their readerships existing prejudices because they're terrified of losing readership to other papers if they challenge the preconceptions of their readership (the Express and Mail are of course the most vicious pairing of papers engaged in this, but you also see this between the Times and Telegraph and even between the Indy and the Guardian). Now apply this to much more subtle, complex stories like immigration or crime - where the lies have the additional allure of being an easily-digested just-so story like "Immigrants have taken all the jobs" and "Muslim gangs prey on young white girls" or "Bombers were ALL spongeing(sic) asylum seekers" - all actual genuine front-page headlines - and take the only news source that has a chance of being impartial, the Beeb, out of the game because they're utterly cowed by both the press and the Government - both sides - and you get into a situation like we have now:
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May 26, 2014 09:30
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and yet a country with a state media has exactly the same brand of stories circulating, so I continue to say that you are overestimating the role the press plays here
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May 26, 2014 09:32
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ronya posted:it doesn't help, sure, but they'll blame immigrants regardless of what the media says because it'll be their chain mail and/or bloke in the pub telling them about the immigrant that was in front of them in the jobseeker's agency today. People believe the Daily Mail because the Daily Mail tells them what they want to hear, not the other way around; if the Mail said something else it'll just be dismissed as a mouthpiece of the shadowy conspiracy du jour (which in today's Britain seems to be some nebulous "PC crowd"). There's a big difference as to how different groups of people use the internet, a lot of people see it purely as facebook and porn. It just wouldn't cross their minds that there might be different information available online that they could access. Maybe that is stupidity but it seems a bit harsh to call it that - they just have completely different frames of reference to those who use the internet in the way we do.
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May 26, 2014 09:34
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ronya posted:and yet a country with a state media has exactly the same brand of stories circulating, so I continue to say that you are overestimating the role the press plays here Which country? What state media? Why is it a different situation?
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May 26, 2014 09:44
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DJ Dizzy posted:Why are people voting for UKIP? I refuse to believe they are that stupid. I guess the CoE vote switched from Conservative to Ukip because they are still bitter over gay marriage.
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May 26, 2014 09:52
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Ddraig posted:I just want to apologise for my fellow countrymen. Not everyone in Wales is a loving idiot. I voted Green. I don't understand any Welsh person voting for UKIP, do they not see all the EU money being spent in Wales?
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May 26, 2014 10:03
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Ultragonk posted:I don't understand any Welsh person voting for UKIP, do they not see all the EU money being spent in Wales? They see all the foreigners taking theyre jerbs 
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May 26, 2014 10:11
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Ultragonk posted:I don't understand any Welsh person voting for UKIP, do they not see all the EU money being spent in Wales? All money is green. I highly doubt they know where it comes from. Even if they did, they could easily be persuaded that they're paying more than they're getting back.
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May 26, 2014 10:12
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DJ Dizzy posted:They see all the foreigners taking theyre jerbs Including the UKIP MEP who wasn't born in Wales. Coming over the severn bridge taking jobs from hard working Welsh UKIP bigots, it's not on! Jedit posted:All money is green. I highly doubt they know where it comes from. Even if they did, they could easily be persuaded that they're paying more than they're getting back. The fact that they could easily be persuaded is one of the most depressing things around.
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May 26, 2014 10:21
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The Supreme Court posted:Which country? What state media? Why is it a different situation? Singapore, whose politics I also watch (I post in the SEA thread occasionally). It has an obedient state media which plays cheerleader to the regime's openly pro-immigration stance; this is reflected in the press response to both the 2011 GE, the 2011 'curry war', and the 2013 Little India riot. It also has several tabloids, modeled to be similar to the UK newspaper ecosystem, but media censorship is prevalent enough that the populism of the tabloids is not permitted to undermine major regime priorities - the race-baiting that the Daily Mail regularly engages in is completely absent. And yet the same narratives resonate - an erroneously high estimation of the number of immigrants, similarly erroneous beliefs as to the actual extent to which policy favours immigrants, over-circulation of unrepresentative anecdotes of civil servants favouring immigrants over natives, steadily rising crime and disorder (???), this sort of thing. I submit that unless one maintains a completely unfounded belief in an exceptional British public, a far simpler interpretation is that these are simply fundamental beliefs that no amount of media deprogramming and organized state propaganda is capable of overcoming. The idea that if only the Murdochian Sun and the Mail would tell the public the truth, the scales would fall off the eyes of the People, who were always True Workers-of-the-World Socialists in their hearts all along - is a bizarre bastardization of the concept of false class consciousness.
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May 26, 2014 10:23
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goddamnedtwisto posted:and take the only news source that has a chance of being impartial, the Beeb, out of the game because they're utterly cowed by both the press and the Government - both sides - and you get into a situation like we have now: A lot of the public write off the BBC as being left wing propaganda. Instead of correctly writing it off for never challenging the factual accuracy of their quotes, barely connecting the dots between any stories and constantly sourcing quotes from Advocacy Group Against This Thing.
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May 26, 2014 10:29
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Ultragonk posted:I don't understand any Welsh person voting for UKIP, do they not see all the EU money being spent in Wales? In Cardiff at least, the few people i've heard speak out in favour of UKIP are a small section of the elderly who won't explicitly say that they think that immigrants are the problem to everything, but they will talk your ear off about how hard it is to park since that Mosque turned up, and I don't like that they cover up their women, and that Farage has some good ideas, and...  I voted Green, for what it's worth.
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May 26, 2014 10:31
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