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Sistergodiva posted:It's awesome that some parts lf europe still embrace history enough to still live in the 1700s. I'm going to do an effortpost tomorrow when I wake up, but that was 0.38%. Add that to the 0.46% PNR got and, if you're feeling generous with the definition of "far right", PND's 0.70%, we're still a lot better off than most of yurop!
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May 26, 2014 02:39
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But in the UK we've really had a perfect storm of a right wing government running the economy into the ground (still the worst recovery on record?), destroying public services and imposing draconian measures on the people struggling to get by in the situation. At the same time they spin it as 'the economy is healing, things are better WE ARE ON THE RIGHT TRACK', and the media - TV news especially - dutifully reports these claims and leaps on recovery narratives whenever there's a sniff of a number getting larger somewhere. So we have a situation where people are really struggling and seeing the real impact of what the government is doing, but when they turn on the TV all they hear are stories about how things have turned around. The government has apparently succeeded, but the average person isn't seeing any evidence of improving circumstances. Someone else is receiving these benefits. And that's the other angle - the 'successful' government is acknowledging that people aren't seeing improvements, and since these gains obviously certainly exist, they must be getting leeched by undesirables - immigrants taking the bountiful jobs, unemployed and disabled people taking money they don't need, the EU hamstringing wealth-volcano businesses with things like labour laws and regulation. These are 'the problems', again dutifully (and gleefully) reported by the media unquestioningly. Parties like UKIP don't even have a manifesto or a set of policies for people to agree with. All they do is shout loudest about those 'problems'. It's all they need to do, the political issues have been reduced to a simplistic pantomime for people to boo and cheer at. I'd like to say people should be more politically engaged and understand exactly what they're casting a vote for, but the media has a responsibility to inform, to at least let people understand the situation isn't as black and white as vested political interests would have you believe. I don't know how things have been in other countries, but coverage of all things political has been dire here. Except in local news, strangely, which seems to have got more political and critical lately. Not enough though
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May 26, 2014 02:44
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Yeah, when expectations aren't met is the shittiest feeling; it's why revolutions seem to happen very close to a fall from a point of high prosperity. I am not saying there is going to be one, just that when your future is completely uncertain, you get scared, insecure, and paranoid, the cornerstone of racism and violence. I saw the propaganda you mentioned years ago when I was not yet weary of politics; so it is not new. Propaganda has been successful since time memorial so I think you are just noticing it more, seeing it for what it is. Femur fucked around with this message at 04:35 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 04:26
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From the age-polls (and some personal experience) I get the feeling that there are way more SD voters amongst old people. Not that surprising, but at least it's better than some sort of racist youth wave. The only SD voting people I've met were 45+ and we talking about deporting "those people" and talking stereotypes about jews 
Pimpmust fucked around with this message at 06:02 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 05:59
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Then again, they also held a school election where pupils got to vote and SD got like 10% of the vote so I doubt it's only the elderly that see something in them.
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May 26, 2014 06:37
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Eurogoons did your right-nationalist party also distance themselves from other countries' right-nationalist party when asked why other right-nationalist were gaining ground across Europe? Because they did here and it hurt my brain.
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May 26, 2014 07:12
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What these elections show is quite clear. A grand majority of the European population either don't have faith in the EU democratic process or are too apathetic to vote and of those that do vote, only a small, fundamentalist majority still believes that the current track is the right way to go, with most people falling into populist or literal fascist parties. Can't be happy about the election results, this represents gently caress all. Barely a quarter of the Portuguese population cared about it. The right, according to PS, suffered an "historical defeat", which is to say they elected one less crony than PS, and since that vacated seat went into Marinho Pinto of MPT, it means the right lost gently caress all. CDU got 2 seats as they expected. There were hopes of a third sit but allas, there was none. The Left Bloc got one pathethic voter turnout, a symbol of their on-going disastrous political process. LIVRE and MRPP, as was expected from the start, did their great work of existing to take away votes from actually important leftist parties. I assume most people vote on MRPP as a form of ironic voting, but the 2% that voted for Tavares fanclub did so out of genuine gullibility, failing to elect him AND stopping the Bloc from getting enough votes to stop a fascist sympathizing populist from going on a 5 year vacation to Brussels. There was a slight turn to the left in some European countries, mine included, which wasn't nearly as strong turn as it should have been after literal years of the working class getting pummeled in the face. It certainly doesn't compare to the harrowing increase of the far right, of the euro-skeptics and assorted terrible people, and it certainly doesn't compare to the great victor of the night, the abstention party. People don't have faith in EU institutions, parties are using the EU parliament results as propaganda pieces for whichever national elections are coming close and the EPP and S&D were maintained in dominance not because of any democratic faith in them but simply because the regular drones and clientele that vote for those parties were some of the only people who bothered showing up. There is no popular faith that democracy will change anything in the EU. That alone should put this charade to rest.
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May 26, 2014 07:31
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 could've gone a lot worse!
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May 26, 2014 07:52
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How many deputies does that mean?
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May 26, 2014 08:12
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Does anyone have any good info on turnout in France? I still am reeling from the LePenn/National Front victory.
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May 26, 2014 08:14
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:Does anyone have any good info on turnout in France? I still am reeling from the LePenn/National Front victory. No source, but according to a French friend of mine, voter turn-out was so low that the FN actually has less votes than it did in previous elections, but due to low turn-out they got more %. 14% of registered voters voted FN last time. Yesterday 11% of registered voters did.
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May 26, 2014 08:19
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The turnout was a joke across the board. This being my first EU election I never understood how little Europe really cares about the EU. Shame.
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May 26, 2014 08:21
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Deltasquid posted:No source, but according to a French friend of mine, voter turn-out was so low that the FN actually has less votes than it did in previous elections, but due to low turn-out they got more %. 14% of registered voters voted FN last time. Yesterday 11% of registered voters did. DarkCrawler posted:The turnout was a joke across the board. This being my first EU election I never understood how little Europe really cares about the EU. Shame. If I could get hard numbers/links on either of this, I would appreciate it immensely. When will people learn that not voting is a vote to embolden extremists and fringe parties? I am going to utterly shame any of my friends in France who dared not vote in this election. Simply unacceptable.
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May 26, 2014 08:27
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Voter turnout is 57,2% in Italy, which I'm not gonna complain about in these times of general apathy.
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May 26, 2014 08:30
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mortons stork posted:Voter turnout is 57,2% in Italy, which I'm not gonna complain about in these times of general apathy. Were the results in Italy as bad as in France? I spoke to some of my French friends today and although they voted, they still feel ashamed.
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May 26, 2014 08:31
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The fn got first in my town, followed by the Left Front (all left wing parties combined did more than the fn, thankfully) Apparently the only people who vote in seine saint denis are the fascists  Edit: I'm really scared for the regional elections next year, turnout is dramatically low for those as well, so I expect the departemental parliaments to be filled and headed by fascists. Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 08:35 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 08:32
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:Were the results in Italy as bad as in France? I spoke to some of my French friends today and although they voted, they still feel ashamed. Somehow the centre-left party, which according to polls was getting at most 32%, got 40%, double its closest opponent and now is set to represent the biggest force in S&D. Not half bad.
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May 26, 2014 08:35
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:Were the results in Italy as bad as in France? I spoke to some of my French friends today and although they voted, they still feel ashamed. Italy apparently went full S&D, which is commendable.
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May 26, 2014 08:35
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GlennFinito posted:Eurogoons did your right-nationalist party also distance themselves from other countries' right-nationalist party when asked why other right-nationalist were gaining ground across Europe? Yes, but that's nothing new. For green movement the paneuropeanism is a strength and is advertised openly. For eurocritical right-wing populist movements appearing european is a weakness re: a certain segment of their voting pool.
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May 26, 2014 08:37
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GlennFinito posted:Eurogoons did your right-nationalist party also distance themselves from other countries' right-nationalist party when asked why other right-nationalist were gaining ground across Europe? Yup.
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May 26, 2014 08:38
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What's this likely to mean for the presidency of the commission? The EPP 'won' the day, which in principle means it should be Juncker. However, given the strong eurosceptic showing, the EPP's scepticism towards the whole concept of spitzenkandidaten, and the potential need for a greater degree of unity between the broadly pro-european factions, the door seems open for a new 'consensus' candidate. Hopefully the established parties will take this result as a wakeup call and realise that they need to be communicating more effectively about how the EU works and what it does - the perception that it's a bunch of grey unelected eurocrats handing down legislation from on high makes it absurdly easy for populists to run against. A strong and charismatic commission president could potentially go a long way towards addressing that issue.
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May 26, 2014 08:54
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LemonDrizzle posted:What's this likely to mean for the presidency of the commission? The EPP 'won' the day, which in principle means it should be Juncker. However, given the strong eurosceptic showing, the EPP's scepticism towards the whole concept of spitzenkandidaten, and the potential need for a greater degree of unity between the broadly pro-european factions, the door seems open for a new 'consensus' candidate. Hopefully the established parties will take this result as a wakeup call and realise that they need to be communicating more effectively about how the EU works and what it does - the perception that it's a bunch of grey unelected eurocrats handing down legislation from on high makes it absurdly easy for populists to run against. A strong and charismatic commission president could potentially go a long way towards addressing that issue. My guess would be that Junker gets the job and Schulz get's to keep his as president of the parliament.
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May 26, 2014 09:00
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Deltasquid posted:No source, but according to a French friend of mine, voter turn-out was so low that the FN actually has less votes than it did in previous elections, but due to low turn-out they got more %. 14% of registered voters voted FN last time. Yesterday 11% of registered voters did. I've heard it's the opposite (as in, turnout was up).
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May 26, 2014 09:02
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GaussianCopula posted:My guess would be that Junker gets the job and Schulz get's to keep his as president of the parliament. I would be pretty, pretty surprised if Juncker actually got the job. Remember, the Lisbon Treaty does not say that the Council must take on board the EP candidate as the new Commission president, they just have to 'take them into account'. Technically the Council members could just read the paper this morning, think "hmm, Juncker ... Nope!" and they'd have done their mandated job. Besides, with turnout as low as it is, the Council can now claim that they don't need to listen all that close to the EP anyway. There's more scuttlebutt here around Christine Lagarde, and now I'm starting to hear Pascal Lamy (former WTO head). Two neoliberal austerians. Great news, Europe!
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May 26, 2014 09:15
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dilbertschalter posted:I've heard it's the opposite (as in, turnout was up). Finnish news report that turnout was 40.3 % in 2009, and 43.3 % this year.
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May 26, 2014 09:22
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Deltasquid posted:Italy apparently went full S&D, which is commendable. Italy elected socialists in record numbers, and France elects nationalist social conservatives. Did the votes get mixed up or something?
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May 26, 2014 09:23
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dilbertschalter posted:I've heard it's the opposite (as in, turnout was up). 40% in 2009 vs 43% in 2014.
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May 26, 2014 09:30
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He was comparing it to the French Presidential elections of 2012, where you had a 80% voter turn-out, and the parliamentary election in 2012, which had a 55% turn-out. He did this because FN is basically abusing the European Parliamentary election and Le Pen went out and said "We should have a new French election because clearly the French government no longer represents the French voter base  " so it seems clear to me that at least to FN, this isn't about Europe, it's about trying to force themselves into the French government.
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May 26, 2014 09:35
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Deltasquid posted:He was comparing it to the French Presidential elections of 2012, where you had a 80% voter turn-out, and the parliamentary election in 2012, which had a 55% turn-out. He did this because FN is basically abusing the European Parliamentary election and Le Pen went out and said "We should have a new French election because clearly the French government no longer represents the French voter base http://www.lefigaro.fr/elections/eu...uteur-du-fn.php «Monsieur Hollande, vous êtes le meilleur recruteur du FN» Pretty good analysis, here. It's like looking into a crystal ball and seeing the US 2014 midterm results unfold before my very eyes!
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May 26, 2014 09:38
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:Does anyone have any good info on turnout in France? I still am reeling from the LePenn/National Front victory.
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May 26, 2014 09:45
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:Italy elected socialists in record numbers, and France elects nationalist social conservatives. Did the votes get mixed up or something? the democratic party are not socialists by any stretch of the imagination and ran in the EPP during the past elections. Still, they are centre-left and since electing their new leader Renzi, are definitely starting to buck the trends. Adhering to S&D as opposed to the EPP was a risky move: could have alienated the catholic electorate and the catholic current in the party itself. Still, it paid off and I'm pretty okay with the results and hope it's a good indication of where the party is heading because for once, I like it.
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May 26, 2014 09:45
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GaussianCopula posted:My guess would be that Junker gets the job and Schulz get's to keep his as president of the parliament.
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May 26, 2014 09:58
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Kurtofan posted:40% in 2009 vs 43% in 2014. Is that even a democracy? I don't understand how this is possible.
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May 26, 2014 09:59
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Where are the loving results. What is PKW doing, how come everyone else can count their stuff
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May 26, 2014 10:00
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On 5 AM, the Polish electoral commission has released results from 91% of regional committees, and they seem to go slightly against what the exit polls anticipated. PiS is currently ahead, with about 1% advantage over PO. However, the remaining 9% of the committees are the largest ones, where the vote count takes the longest, i.e. mostly cities, where Kaczynski usually does worse. The results are still up in the air, and it'll be exciting to see who takes the cake in the end - even though there's little chance of either party gaining or losing any seats now, and they'll most likely both be at 19 MEPs, a victory for PiS now may be a shot in the arm for the party, but could also mobilize the supporters of the government to stop the "Kaczynski menace".
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May 26, 2014 10:02
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Junior G-man posted:I would be pretty, pretty surprised if Juncker actually got the job. Remember, the Lisbon Treaty does not say that the Council must take on board the EP candidate as the new Commission president, they just have to 'take them into account'. Technically the Council members could just read the paper this morning, think "hmm, Juncker ... Nope!" and they'd have done their mandated job. Comments from germany: Hooray, the election is a big victoy for us all, because it moved the power towards the voters and it's hardly conceivable that the council could deny Junker the post. 
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May 26, 2014 10:08
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drat that is a horrible article. Putting Greece and Italy(!) in the same category with France as countries whose governments were punished as if the PD was in any way comparable to the FN. And, as usual, seeing "populism" and anti-EU rhetoric as the only problem with the Front National or the UKIP.
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May 26, 2014 10:25
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dorkasaurus_rex posted:http://www.lefigaro.fr/elections/eu...uteur-du-fn.php *20 million Euros were spent in apparently fake expensive "events" organized by a company owned by Copé's friends, no one who supposedly took part in those costly debates and discussions actually remember them actually happening and it was happening when Copé was asking the party supporters to donate up to 11 million euros to fix the party's debts. Add the fact that Copé slowly went from "it's a left wing conspiracy to smear us before the elections" to "i knew nothing, i am a victim of those thieves who pretended to be my friends, abused my confidence and stole all our money!" in over two weeks.... Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 10:37 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 10:28
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Also the fact that Sarkozy veered really hard right to get elected "la droite décomplexée" (the right without hang-ups) basically pushed far right rhetoric into the mainstream. Copé is a tremendous shite so I'd be glad if he fucks off. And gently caress Mitterand for propping up the FN in the first place. He wanted it to have a spoiler effect on the right, well good job you dead gently caress. Kurtofan fucked around with this message at 10:54 on May 26, 2014 |
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May 26, 2014 10:52
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cebrail posted:drat that is a horrible article. Putting Greece and Italy(!) in the same category with France as countries whose governments were punished as if the PD was in any way comparable to the FN. And, as usual, seeing "populism" and anti-EU rhetoric as the only problem with the Front National or the UKIP.  We punished the PD government with a 40.8% PD vote? When last year PD was at 25%? Well, we sure showed Renzi (Prime minister and PD chief) what's what, he'll clearly have no choice but to resign. No seriously, how the gently caress do you punish a government by voting for its party? 
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May 26, 2014 10:58
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