|
CommonTerry posted:It makes sense it's just a waste of effort. We should all just give up and go to chipotle. The laziest way to eat
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 19:30
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 22:07 |
|
|
The White Dragon posted:The problem is that realistically, few schools are actually going to have the resources to teach those multiple avenues. More than likely, understaffed schools with oversized classes are gonna choose the one at the top of the list and, well, we just can't deal with any student who understands better under the different methods that are outlined in the teaching guidelines that we're unable to cover. the big complaints coming from the teachers i've seen is: 1. kids don't get it/it's not intuitive to them 2. the early testing being used to judge what kids' futures will be is terrifying to the children, the teachers, and parents the tests are apparently horrible in literally every way possible but they legally can't tell you why
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 19:32
|
|
|
Carol Pizzamom posted:We should all just give up and go to chipotle. The laziest way to eat no we should feed our children growth-stunting protein deficient diets because that's what South Korea is doing and they're kicking our rear end in STEM
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 19:35
|
|
|
Gulzin posted:
12-9=3 30-20=10 10+3=13 How exactly is common core faster or easier?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 19:42
|
|
|
if common core math is confusing for you you should have learned common core in school because you're really bad at math
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 19:43
|
|
|
Actually my biggest issue with common core is that it adds more work to show than the borrow/carry method, and as a child I always hated writing out steps because my hand cramps up terribly and gets pencil smeared all over it. #southpawproblems
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 19:46
|
|
|
thelightguy posted:Actually my biggest issue with common core is that it adds more work to show than the borrow/carry method, and as a child I always hated writing out steps because my hand cramps up terribly and gets pencil smeared all over it. #southpawproblems no, you see, adding more work makes you able to study it faster
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 19:49
|
|
|
Gulzin posted:Also, if you had to do it quickly, did you do it with pen and paper, because common core's method makes it MUCH easier to do in your head? 40-20= 20 22-9= 13
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 19:59
|
|
|
thelightguy posted:12-9=3 Okay, new test: 241551-214212 Common Core Method: 8+80+700+5000+20000+1000+500+50+1=20000+5000+1000+700+500+80+50+8+1=27339 It is closer to the mental arithmetic tricks people use (read the endless people posting that in this very thread), but it has the benefit of actually highlighting how the positional number system works too. It is much slower on paper, but who cares about being speedy when you have calculators. Anyhow, I posted research articles showing why we need common core, proof that common core works, and now the thread is going in cycles.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:03
|
|
|
hey gary oldman pls stop being such a loving retard and stop arguing about poo poo you dont know anything about "i dont have any info to back my stupid ideas but my old texbook was awesome so QED" loving lol
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:04
|
|
|
CommonTerry posted:the big complaints coming from the teachers i've seen is: the only ppl complaining are the stupid parents actually
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:08
|
|
|
CommonTerry posted:the big complaints coming from the teachers i've seen is: The tests are horrible because the people making them don't even understand the Common Core Standards. Some schools think these are replacements for curriculum (they're not), and others think that because CCSS require more writing now students have to write an explanation for everything they do. Common Core is being terribly implemented, which just adds to the shitstorm swirling around it.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:09
|
|
|
thelightguy posted:12-9=3 38126 x 387 estimates orders of magnitude: "two numbers, eight digits between them, 38x38 is almost 40x40 so my answer should be in the ten millions and start with one-five or one-four" prefers addition: "387's close to 400 but I don't like subtracting. If I moved a two from one to the other I'd get 19063 x 774, which means I get to multiply a lot of sevens so let's do that. 133,441 x 110 = 14678510 + two 38,126s (76,252), 78510 + 76252 = 154762, so the answer's 14754762." (this is actually how I do it) prefers subtraction: "387's close to 400, so if I make it 38126 x 400 - 38126 x 13, that's just 15250400 - 381260 - 38126 three times, which is bullshit, nobody prefers subtraction."
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:10
|
|
|
Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Common Core is being terribly implemented, which just adds to the shitstorm swirling around it. Hey shocking when you pay your teachers nothing nobody qualified except a few that actually care about teaching is attracted to the field!
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:11
|
|
|
Gulzin posted:It is much slower on paper, but who cares about being speedy when you have calculators. Me because my hand cramped up constantly back when I had to write all this poo poo out. Calculators though are a godsend when you have them available, I wrote programs for my HP48 that would take all sorts of equations and print out every step in solving them, making math homework almost not a terrible tedious chore.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:11
|
|
|
babypolis posted:the only ppl complaining are the stupid parents actually most teachers are parents
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:11
|
|
|
Also kids care if it's slower on paper, the #1 thing I hated the most was showing my work for some poo poo that I did in my head. I just didn't do it and then my grade suffered even though I understood the concept. I'm not really against CC because Gulzin convinced me but I will say that nobody seems to give a poo poo what kids think and then they go 'why do kids not care at all?'
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:12
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:Hey shocking when you pay your teachers nothing nobody qualified except a few that actually care about teaching is attracted to the field! you want all teachers to care about teaching in low grades. doing teaching for the money = you shouldn't be teaching
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:13
|
|
|
thelightguy posted:Me because my hand cramped up constantly back when I had to write all this poo poo out. Calculators though are a godsend when you have them available, I wrote programs for my HP48 that would take all sorts of equations and print out every step in solving them, making math homework almost not a terrible tedious chore. Any student I have that would do that would get an automatic A on that assignment. To write the program you understand the process. That is why we have students show work, because it lets us see they understand the process. Who cares how many widgets Jim's widget factory makes. We only care that you understand the process and the problem so you can actually use it in your life. Edit: Also, remember that there are many wrong ways to get a single right answer.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:13
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:Also kids care if it's slower on paper, the #1 thing I hated the most was showing my work for some poo poo that I did in my head. I just didn't do it and then my grade suffered even though I understood the concept. ive heard kids like it again it seems only the parents are having trouble with it CommonTerry posted:you want all teachers to care about teaching in low grades. doing teaching for the money = you shouldn't be teaching what a stupid thing to say
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:14
|
|
|
Gulzin posted:Any student I have that would do that would get an automatic A on that assignment. To write the program you understand the process. That is why we have students show work, because it lets us see they understand the process. Who cares how many widgets Jim's widget factory makes. We only care that you understand the process and the problem so you can actually use it in your life. Man I wish I had you teaching me math through high school.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:14
|
|
|
i love these people who are OUTRAGED at common core math. oh my god, the horror of forcing kids to acquire basic numeracy skills instead of memorizing algorithms that they may not even understand
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:16
|
|
|
thelightguy posted:Man I wish I had you teaching me math through high school. I would be tempted to teach high-school for awhile if we didn't treat teachers like complete poo poo. Another math professor went to teach high-school for a year: http://www.ams.org/notices/201210/rtx121001408p.pdf That story is why I plan to stay firmly in higher education.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:19
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:Hey shocking when you pay your teachers nothing nobody qualified except a few that actually care about teaching is attracted to the field! Test design doesn't usually involve teachers, schools have a whole separate department and payroll for test design (and teacher evals nowadays).
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:19
|
|
|
if you think there is something like the common core method that you have to learn now instead of some other method you srsly are not getting it hth
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:26
|
|
|
CommonTerry posted:you want all teachers to care about teaching in low grades. doing teaching for the money = you shouldn't be teaching that works brilliantly today, we have sooo many good teachers we have a capitalist system, people get jobs for the money. yes, some people get jobs because they actually like them, but if you pay a pittance for a job you're going to get candidates for the job that are on average worth that pittance you're paying them. if you made becoming a teacher as stringent as becoming a doctor with the same amount of prestige and pay, you are going to get a lot more bright and successful people becoming teachers instead of the old 'if you fail at everything, teach!' joke. It's pretty telling that such a joke even exists. yes I want all teachers to care about teaching in any grade. The lower grades are the most formulative years of your life, a good schooling in grade school ensures you have good study habits and life habits that will help you succeed later. If a kid learns early on that their teacher doesn't give a poo poo, then what do you think that kid's attitude towards school from that point on will be? And then we wonder why kids in high school don't care. Crazy Joe Wilson posted:Test design doesn't usually involve teachers, schools have a whole separate department and payroll for test design (and teacher evals nowadays). the whole constantly testing mentality is also stupid as hell though, and is pretty much a result of 'No Child Left Behind.' Kids in grade school shouldn't have to take standardized tests. It's because we don't trust our teachers to teach anything so we just have to check and see I guess! And then the tests are not part of the class grade so the kids don't care and draw christmas trees in the bubbles and then oops less funding for the school gotta cut extracurriculars! Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 20:36 on May 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:29
|
|
|
alright so i understand common core subtraction and yeah it's cool but how do you do common core addition/division/multiplication, genuinely interested is common core stuff just for arithmetic, or does it go all the way up to algebra/trig etc
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:38
|
|
|
Gulzin posted:I would be tempted to teach high-school for awhile if we didn't treat teachers like complete poo poo. Another math professor went to teach high-school for a year: http://www.ams.org/notices/201210/rtx121001408p.pdf It's no better at the "good" schools either. The experience of being at an ostensibly well performing high school (which included an expectation of doing 4-6 hours hours of homework a night and participating in extracurriculars) is the biggest reason I never pursued higher education other than a spattering of art classes at the local community college. For the longest time, it killed any respect I had for formal education, and even now that I'm looking at MFA programs, I'm only considering ones that allow a portfolio in lieu of a bachelor's.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:41
|
|
|
Gulzin posted:I would be tempted to teach high-school for awhile if we didn't treat teachers like complete poo poo. Another math professor went to teach high-school for a year: http://www.ams.org/notices/201210/rtx121001408p.pdf See what I mean? Can't get good teachers in hs let alone grade school because our system is set up in such a way such that nobody gives a poo poo about teachers. They don't get paid enough, they don't get trained enough, etc. Schools that don't perform well get less money the next year. It's nuts. Next to systemic flaws like these changing up the math curriculum seems like tossing a mentos into a vat of hydrocloric acid. Not that we shouldn't do it but drat dude our education system is hosed.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:46
|
|
|
Armani posted:I once passed a math test because I drew a sweet picture of Goku on the paper back in the 8th grade Q1a) Express Goku's power level as an inequality.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:50
|
|
|
Gulzin posted:Pushing you towards research and articles of mathematicians explaining why this is a good thing is not an appeal to authority any more than me posting climate research would be an appeal to authority when talking about global climate change. I am sorry if you don't agree with the science, but it is what it is. youve said this tard version of addition and subtraction is superior to classic such that it is a suitable complete replacement give me something better than that as an adult you practiced how to add and subtract this way and it really makes sense to you adding to maximize the zeroed digits just so you can add again is retarded you literally complain about the memorization of the ordinary method and say this new method has no memorization: Gulzin posted:No, it is not faster than your algorithm, but I bet if you look at it and understand how it works, you wouldn't need to memorize anything to do it. you are exactly still borrowing and carrying to the next digits youre just achieving it in its own explicit step to later return your work on the current digit its the same thing but with the retarded assumption that you shouldnt trust yourself to perform 2-digit math and that future american children should never trust themselves to be able to do simple mental operations theyll just learn to use the calculator more someone with supposed insight into the mathematical operations being performed should understand that helps kids understand the base-10 system... man if they do not understand that every increment of the 10s place is 10 more and the 100s place is 100 more you have no business yet pushing them into doing addition and subtraction on the basis that you have a neat trick that they can memorize to get by that and be functional even though they are completely hobbled Gulzin posted:Now find me a research article that supports the pre-2000 curriculum. if youre the current crop of educators and you cant distinguish that from all of common core were in trouble reminder that Gulzin has no loving idea about what happened to the math curriculum and literally just denies that math books ever explained math hes complaining that proficiency of classic algorithmic methods just dont work and apparently never worked while back in reality education and mastery of them has been under attack in the us for decades Gulzin posted:It is much slower on paper, but who cares about being speedy when you have calculators. new peaks of excellence if someone could really give me 1 solid answer on why what works everywhere else in countries that outperform us just cant work in america that would be great gary oldmans diary fucked around with this message at 21:08 on May 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:58
|
|
|
Gulzin posted:Oh, so when was the last time you had to quickly add and subtract two digit numbers quickly? Were you faster than a calculator? 42-30=12 so 42-29=13. idk that's how i'd do that in my head. i don't consider myself very good at mental math, though
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 20:59
|
|
|
gary oldmans diary posted:reminder that Gulzin has no loving idea about what happened to the math curriculum and literally just denies that math books ever explained math I'm done arguing your bullshit points until you provide some research to back it up. Provide one credible source that backs up your claim that this is because we changed curriculum in 2000. Here let me help you find research related to Reform Mathematics (those changes in only certain states that you keep on railing against that happened in 2000) Students in urban areas perform just as well as traditional curriculum, so SHUT UP, and AND SHUT UP.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:13
|
|
|
Gulzin posted:I'm done arguing where are the numerous links you posted on why simply borrowing and carrying doesnt work wheres all those Gulzin posted:Provide one credible source that backs up your claim that this is because we changed curriculum timeless truths gary oldmans diary fucked around with this message at 21:17 on May 26, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:14
|
|
|
gary oldmans diary posted:and nothing of value was lost babypolis posted:hey gary oldman pls stop being such a loving retard and stop arguing about poo poo you dont know anything about Concerned Citizen posted:i really enjoy this conversation between dumb people who think they know education b/c they went to school and a person that actually teaches math and knows what they're talking about (so of course they're ignored by half the posters) Tell us more.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:17
|
|
|
gary oldmans diary posted:if someone could really give me 1 solid answer on why what works everywhere else in countries that outperform us just cant work in america that would be great eh it doesnt really. afaik every country that has some form of math education research is changing its curriculum. its mostly the same: algorithms produce some people that are good at calculating and many people that suck at it. it also produces no understanding, when measuring understanding as something else as is able to calculate
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:17
|
|
|
babypolis posted:the only ppl complaining are the stupid parents actually uneducated parents not being able to help their statistically worse-off kids with basic math skills is good because by the way it's all algorithms this is just a different one.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:21
|
|
|
Gulzin posted:Tell us more. allow me to cite: your math is retardedly incremental because you only know how to add and subtract to and from 10 vaucede posted:eh it doesnt really. afaik every country that has some form of math education research is changing its curriculum. its mostly the same: algorithms produce some people that are good at calculating and many people that suck at it. it also produces no understanding, when measuring understanding as something else as is able to calculate if you provide an understanding you dont need to make basic addition and subtraction a chore this isnt only about understanding this is an opposition to lifelong proficiency and efficacy for these kids i really hope they arent gonna be herded into calculator reliant basic math
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:23
|
|
|
gary oldmans diary posted:and nothing of value was lost I want to be clear here. You are actually arguing against Common Core?
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 9, 2024 22:07 |
|
|
gggiiimmmppp posted:if common core math is confusing for you you should have learned common core in school because you're really bad at math its not confusing to me, but it seems kinda pointless when you're talking about simple addition and subtraction problems.
|
|
#
?
May 26, 2014 21:23
|
|
