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That just kind of helps the idea that despite their appearances and position, the God Hand in their embodiments are super raw, nasty human
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May 27, 2014 02:27
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I'm kind of worried to see what's actually going on with the souls of the dead 
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May 27, 2014 03:34
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Zorak posted:He's had multiple chances to kill him with Zodd, but both times they deemed it completely unnecessary and Griffith bailed. Of course, Griffith's reticence may be driven by that part of his current manifestation is Guts' unborn child's own attachment driving it. Zodd outright just respects Guts yeah, but he's certainly not got any injunctions against killing him anyways. Not that I'm not looking forward to Guts splitting each one of them in half, though. Griffith is going to fall from grace a second time, and it will be glorious.
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May 27, 2014 06:27
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Griffith is still really pissed at Guts for
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May 27, 2014 06:44
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Soulcleaver posted:Zodd is a pretty cool dude as far as mass-murdering demon lunatics go; he's almost pleasant when compared to most of the other apostles with their ridiculous cruelties. Some of Griffith's other minions like Locus and Irvine also seem almost noble if you can overlook that they too are monsters who sacrificed their loved ones at some point and currently willingly follow the king demon bastard himself. Is it ever stated why the apostles are following Griffith? Given that apostles can still keep some semblance of humanity (Roshinu, the slug baron), and that the apostles seemed to be genuinely risking their lives fighting on Griffith's behalf (which would seem out of character for a creature which sacrificed its beloved for selfish reasons), perhaps the apostles are just as taken in by the idealism of Griffith's vision as the humans? Maybe even an apostle can have regrets, or hope for forgiveness and salvation.
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May 27, 2014 06:59
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DKD posted:Is it ever stated why the apostles are following Griffith? Given that apostles can still keep some semblance of humanity (Roshinu, the slug baron), and that the apostles seemed to be genuinely risking their lives fighting on Griffith's behalf (which would seem out of character for a creature which sacrificed its beloved for selfish reasons), perhaps the apostles are just as taken in by the idealism of Griffith's vision as the humans? Maybe even an apostle can have regrets, or hope for forgiveness and salvation. When your devil boss asks you to do something for him you don't get to question it too much.
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May 27, 2014 07:05
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DKD posted:Is it ever stated why the apostles are following Griffith? Given that apostles can still keep some semblance of humanity (Roshinu, the slug baron), and that the apostles seemed to be genuinely risking their lives fighting on Griffith's behalf (which would seem out of character for a creature which sacrificed its beloved for selfish reasons), perhaps the apostles are just as taken in by the idealism of Griffith's vision as the humans? Maybe even an apostle can have regrets, or hope for forgiveness and salvation. Ganishka commented that the Apostles feel a religious-like desire to serve the God Hand, it's their calling. That's why Zodd serves him: it's a power greater than him that gives him finally peace of purpose rather than the endless centuries of immortal ennui.
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May 27, 2014 07:32
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Griffith is quite possibly capable of killing every single apostle by himself, but that isn't the main point. He is pretty much the god of apostles but more importantly, it isn't like they are immune to his absurd charisma. Unlike the duped human citizens, the apostles know a little more about what goes on behind the curtain. However, even though they know that Griffith is faking being a religious icon they also know that it doesn't make his power any less real. The only two rebels were Zod and the emperor, and we all know how that went. If there were any others they were almost certainly killed off-panel, but who cares about minor random apostles?
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May 27, 2014 07:40
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Not to mention Ganishka's rebellion was even part of the grand plan after all.
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May 27, 2014 07:43
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Serious Frolicking posted:Griffith is quite possibly capable of killing every single apostle by himself, but that isn't the main point. He is pretty much the god of apostles but more importantly, it isn't like they are immune to his absurd charisma. Unlike the duped human citizens, the apostles know a little more about what goes on behind the curtain. However, even though they know that Griffith is faking being a religious icon they also know that it doesn't make his power any less real. The only two rebels were Zod and the emperor, and we all know how that went. If there were any others they were almost certainly killed off-panel, but who cares about minor random apostles? When was Zodd a rebel?
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May 27, 2014 07:50
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Ytlaya posted:When was Zodd a rebel? He challenged Griffith and got his horn cut off for his trouble. From then on he quietly submitted.
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May 27, 2014 07:55
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Yeah I don't think Zodd counts as rebelling against the Godhand. Remember he went after Wyld when he (Wyld) was about to lay open Griffith. He's just that one character archetype "graaar I only wish for BATTLE with WORTHY OPPONENTS" but he's a really well-done example of it. He was on that mountain of corpses being really unsatisfied with his life and then astral Griffith came along and schooled him in milliseconds so now he follows him.
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May 27, 2014 07:56
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A couple chapters from now Guts will be in a fight against some demon and dodge a fraction of a second too late and be disemboweled. The manga will then end.
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May 27, 2014 07:59
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It wasn't much of a rebellion, but he did try to fight Griffith. Since I rather doubt that Griffith went around recruiting apostles one by one, doing even that much was likely very unusual.
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May 27, 2014 08:00
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Zorak posted:He's had multiple chances to kill him with Zodd, but both times they deemed it completely unnecessary and Griffith bailed. Of course, Griffith's reticence may be driven by that part of his current manifestation is Guts' unborn child's own attachment driving it. Zodd outright just respects Guts yeah, but he's certainly not got any injunctions against killing him anyways. That's a fair point. I interpreted its unnecessary-ness as "eh, he's constantly being hunted by apostles, no need to waste the effort even if I really hate this fucker" and not them just not caring about it. quote:I dunno, it's just my pet theory. Casca was willing to abandon her life with Guts to take care of Griffith when he'd been reduced to a bag of bones after he was locked up, her literally returning to Griffith after all of this would be the biggest gently caress you that Miura could do to Guts, imo, which is kind of Miura's modus operandi. Eh. I see what you're saying but that was kinda before he horrifically murdered almost all of her friends and brutally raped her, impregnating her with a demon baby. I would be very very surprised if there's not some major lingering resentment over that.
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May 27, 2014 08:55
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Shugojin posted:I'm kind of worried to see what's actually going on with the souls of the dead Now you've got me believing in ghost rape too. Ectoplasm everywhere!!! 
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May 27, 2014 09:25
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Ytlaya posted:A couple chapters from now Guts will be in a fight against some demon and dodge a fraction of a second too late and be disemboweled. The manga will then end.
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May 27, 2014 09:34
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temple posted:Sword of the Berserk: Guts' Rage (Dreamcast) is true to Berserk (Retribution arc) but is a bad game in general. It has a Berserk meter, the crossbow, bombs, throwing knives. The plot is decent or predictably Berserk-ish. Supergreatfriend did a let's play of it.
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May 27, 2014 14:30
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SALT CURES HAM posted:Eh. I see what you're saying but that was kinda before he horrifically murdered almost all of her friends and brutally raped her, impregnating her with a demon baby. I would be very very surprised if there's not some major lingering resentment over that. Stupid clarification from me but Griffith didn't impregnate Casca, she was already pregnant.
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May 27, 2014 14:44
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Stupid clarification from me but Griffith didn't impregnate Casca, she was already pregnant. All my friends took away that the child was Femto's and I'm astounded people don't realize that the child Casca gave birth to is Guts'.
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May 27, 2014 16:06
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Its a magic demon baby. It has two fathers.
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May 27, 2014 16:26
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Oh, so whatsherface the psychic girl can hear and relay the voices of the dead? I can't wait to for her to hear what the original Band have to say!
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May 27, 2014 17:16
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Illuyankas posted:Oh, so whatsherface the psychic girl can hear and relay the voices of the dead? I can't wait to for her to hear what the original Band have to say! Since they got killed as sacrifices, the original Band of the
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May 27, 2014 17:36
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mechacop posted:All my friends took away that the child was Femto's and I'm astounded people don't realize that the child Casca gave birth to is Guts'.
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May 27, 2014 18:10
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Femto, uh, "corrupted" it seemingly.
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May 27, 2014 18:12
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IronicDongz posted:Really? Why's it a hosed up demon thing, then? Guts is the natural father of the "Moonchild". Casca carried it until she was raped by Femto during the Eclipse. She and Guts were never intended to survive the Eclipse, and Skull Knight made a last second rescue which (hopefully) was never part of the Godhand's plans. Casca miscarried shortly after the Eclipse from all the trauma, but because the fetus was exposed to the Eclipse and Femto's corruption, it survived outside her womb and vanished in the light of dawn. Later the fetus made friends with the Belhilt Apostle (the one that was literally a giant Belhilt), and it merged together with it to form Griffith's new earthly body. Or, to put it bluntly, Griffith is his own grandpa. Not sure why we're spoiling this but I guess there are lots of new readers in here, too.
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May 27, 2014 18:24
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Uhhhhhhh so what was the deal with the child just hanging around and the vanishing at various points in the story? And why did the child look like Griffith if it was Guts' and Casca's
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May 27, 2014 20:12
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Wachepti posted:Uhhhhhhh so what was the deal with the child just hanging around and the vanishing at various points in the story? And why did the child look like Griffith if it was Guts' and Casca's "It is natural for a child to long for its parents." - Paraphrasing from an actual line. It may have been corrupted by Griffith, but it's still Guts and Caska's child, and it knows it. That's why it stalked Guts all those times pre-second Eclipse.
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May 27, 2014 20:20
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Wachepti posted:Uhhhhhhh so what was the deal with the child just hanging around and the vanishing at various points in the story? And why did the child look like Griffith if it was Guts' and Casca's
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May 27, 2014 20:20
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Nate RFB posted:They're the same, supposedly. Griffith and that kid are sharing the same body. I recall Griffith making a comment alluding to such, and the moonchild rides off on Zodd at one point as well doesn't he? I believe that during one of his appearances Zodd is just barely visible standing off panel in the distance. Though can't remember when.
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May 27, 2014 20:45
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Nelson Mandingo posted:Stupid clarification from me but Griffith didn't impregnate Casca, she was already pregnant. I mean technically yes but it's Griffith's fault it's a hosed up demon baby.
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May 27, 2014 20:49
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U-DO Burger posted:Since they got killed as sacrifices, the original Band of the While true (and something I'd forgotten) I can't imagine that hearing what the dead REALLY have to say about it won't be a factor in turning Sonia against Griffith.
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May 27, 2014 23:23
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sonia: "hosed up if true"
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May 27, 2014 23:27
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I initially thought the moonchild was still Guts and Casca's kid, but it doesn't really make sense since it turned into Griffith's body. It was a weird misshaped fetus thing and used the last of it's power to save Casca at the tower of conviction. Why would it suddenly age up and appear apart from Griffith? The moonchild seems to be King Hanafubuku, or at least someone from the elf kingdom. There was one particular page where it showed him like riding some sort of spectral wind thing right by the moon when they were describing the elf king, but for the life of me I can't find it now.
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May 28, 2014 01:55
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Shugojin posted:I'm kind of worried to see what's actually going on with the souls of the dead He is likely using them to climb towards the next castle: The Idea of Evil. The Idea is literally the collective consciousness of the negative emotions of all beings. Griffith is likely trying to set up himself as a god to rival and displace the Idea. All this stuff with collecting all the people to one spot, the Pope and religion is to solidify himself as a living deity. He's warping the minds of every human at the moment, they're going to stop praying to God and start praying for Griffith to save them from any troubles and to cure any wants in life.
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May 28, 2014 03:02
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Begemot posted:I initially thought the moonchild was still Guts and Casca's kid, but it doesn't really make sense since it turned into Griffith's body. It was a weird misshaped fetus thing and used the last of it's power to save Casca at the tower of conviction. Why would it suddenly age up and appear apart from Griffith?
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May 28, 2014 03:16
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YouTuber posted:He is likely using them to climb towards the next castle: The Idea of Evil. The Idea is literally the collective consciousness of the negative emotions of all beings. Griffith is likely trying to set up himself as a god to rival and displace the Idea. All this stuff with collecting all the people to one spot, the Pope and religion is to solidify himself as a living deity. He's warping the minds of every human at the moment, they're going to stop praying to God and start praying for Griffith to save them from any troubles and to cure any wants in life. This is now my headcanon.
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May 28, 2014 03:59
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I thought it was, if not explicitly stated, heavily implied that the moon child is the elf king.
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May 28, 2014 04:27
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Nate RFB posted:Why can't they be one in the same? Sometimes he's Griffith, sometimes it's the moonchild. Evil demon magic or whatever. I vaguely remember there being something at some point hinting at that possibility. Damned if I know where, though. Literally Kermit posted:Guts is the natural father of the "Moonchild". Casca carried it until she was raped by Femto during the Eclipse. She and Guts were never intended to survive the Eclipse, and Skull Knight made a last second rescue which (hopefully) was never part of the Godhand's plans. Given how the baby surviving and being spurned by Guts ultimately resulted in it becoming Griffith's earthly vessel, that was probably a part of the Idea of Evil's plans, though not the Godhand's given they were surprised by the SK appearing.
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May 28, 2014 04:40
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Nate RFB posted:Why can't they be one in the same? Sometimes he's Griffith, sometimes it's the moonchild. Evil demon magic or whatever. I'm not going to say that weird poo poo doesn't happen for mystical reasons in Berserk, but there isn't really any good evidence for it being the demon child. It didn't appear only during the full moon and it looked like a weird abomination. If it was being aged up by Griffith's power for some reason, then I would expect it to have white hair to hint at the connection, at the very least.
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May 28, 2014 04:54
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