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AdjectiveNoun posted:Which is stupid. Abyssals should have been given their own niche, instead of the devs making a new Exalt type and relegating Abyssals to just Dark Solars. Abyssals have their own niche, as the exalts of unnatural/romanticized/perverted/influential-on-the-living death. "Corrupted" can have like three different meanings, I'm not going to play semantics games about it. It's important that Abyssals be as mighty as Solars, and "hey I just made these other Exalts that are as strong as Solars, yeah I guess I just found them or w/e, anyway bye" is worse for the setting than them actually being transfigured Solars.
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May 26, 2014 20:39
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Ithle01 posted:How about we just get rid of the concept of 'end states' for Exalts completely. Or limit it to a side bar with about five or six suggestions for individual groups to farm for ideas. Also in a long running game you'd eventually get "veteran" Exalts of some kind. I actually think they had a pretty good trajectory if I recall.
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May 26, 2014 20:43
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AdjectiveNoun posted:Which is stupid. Abyssals should have been given their own niche, instead of the devs making a new Exalt type and relegating Abyssals to just Dark Solars. That was my feeling when Liminals were first announced. We're reaching the point where you can run a game with every character Exalted by (or of, gently caress you Peleps Deled) a different death-aspected entity. This is an actual party that is going to be conceived, I can guarantee it. * A vampiric renegade Abyssal, she's the group's reluctant leader type. * A frakensteinian Liminal, probably doing some kind of Data style "Who am I?" thing. * A Black Market Exalt uplifted by Taru-Han to act as her secret psychopomp and soul collector. * An Exalt of Masque of Repose, granted the Exigence to assist him with maintaining the funeral city of Sijan (insert plot hook here) * And a Chosen of Saturn who deals with all the paperwork the other four death Exalts generate because that's a hell of a lot of death Exalts.
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May 26, 2014 20:48
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Calde posted:That was my feeling when Liminals were first announced. We're reaching the point where you can run a game with every character Exalted by (or of, gently caress you Peleps Deled) a different death-aspected entity.
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May 26, 2014 20:51
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Nessus posted:You forgot the ghost-blooded DBs. Maybe a water-aspected one so you have a Creature, because you just created Monster Squad. * Ghost-Blooded son of Dracula, who now hunts Draculas * Water-Aspected 'Dragon of Another Color' * Lunar Wolfman who is the long lost mate of vampire leader (this one doesn't count) * Whatever Ebon Dragon Infernals are called, we can have one of those, but it's the 1e Ebon Dragon where he was obsessed with death. I'm probably still missing a few.
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May 26, 2014 21:04
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You could probably also justify a Soulsteel Caste Alchemical. Personally, I hope all the Ghost-Blooded, God-Blooded, anything-Blooded, and Half-Castes go away forever. They're boring and I would like to see more focus on the Spirits themselves, the Raksha, and the more interesting non-human races.
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May 26, 2014 21:10
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:You could probably also justify a Soulsteel Caste Alchemical. Son of a bitch!
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May 26, 2014 21:16
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:You could probably also justify a Soulsteel Caste Alchemical.  I didn't really find them that compelling myself though, and I didn't get why people apparently were all 'I know, let's play a lower-powered version of Exalted where we all have to pay a jillion XP for our lovely Charms and be largely defined by our parents!' Must've been White Wolf residuum. You also got into this weird space where, logically, shouldn't all of the patricians (or most of them) in the Realm already have been vaguely supernatural already?
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May 26, 2014 21:32
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:You could probably also justify a Soulsteel Caste Alchemical. They're gone, Exigents replace them.
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May 26, 2014 21:55
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Nessus posted:If by 'end state' you mean "ending screen demonstration of transhuman supremacy in whatever,' that's fair. However, I think you have to at least glance at what "veteran" Exalts look like because they are likely to be antagonists, and Terrestrials are both entirely playable, likely to fight Solars, and presumably would have 'elder ninja masters'. I'm saying we should leave the potential vague for the Solar types because no solution is going to please everyone so provide a list of ideas for groups to use and call it a day. Then again, this might not be a bad idea for Lunars too. Dragon-Blooded and Sidereals don't really have the same issues. I don't know what you mean by good trajectory for veteran Exalts because anything past Essence 4 (+/- 1 depending on the splat) went to poo poo really fast, but that was mostly due to the system and some bad charm ideas.
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May 26, 2014 22:23
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Vadoc posted:They're gone, Exigents replace them. God, no. God-Blooded are still around. We love those guys. They're not going to run off their parents' Charmsets anymore, though. Probably get a book.
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May 26, 2014 23:26
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Stephenls posted:God, no. God-Blooded are still around. We love those guys. God-Blooded are kinda neat - Half-Castes were a really dumb idea, though, and I hope they're gone.
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May 26, 2014 23:29
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Kenlon posted:God-Blooded are kinda neat - Half-Castes were a really dumb idea, though, and I hope they're gone. Solar Half-Castes who use Solar Charms are certainly going to go. Terrestrial half-castes are gone for sure. But I know the general idea that the offspring of high-Essence Exalts may have a special something is sticking around, though maybe not anything even as potent as access to any Charms at all. Like, when the concept of Half-Castes was introduce, Geoff just said "Enh, use the rules for Adventure!'s Daredevils." (Also we love Ledaal Kebok Coren and are not cutting her for any reason.)
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May 26, 2014 23:44
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I would much rather have a book about playing unemployed gods going on adventures. I realise that Holden has said that gods don't have a character arc and won't be suitable as player characters, but I think he's so so wrong there.
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May 26, 2014 23:51
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xiw posted:I would much rather have a book about playing unemployed gods going on adventures. I realise that Holden has said that gods don't have a character arc and won't be suitable as player characters, but I think he's so so wrong there. Yeah, we're not interested in re-structuring the way gods' superpowers work in order to make them convenient for conventional play paradigms -- Holden says he's found in practice that giving gods a centralized list of Charms to reference is very bad, since they're primarily used as NPCs (terrible! The divine Charms in RoGDI are some of my finest dev work, and he says they're harmful!), and he'd rather write gods up as they were in early 2e (pre-RoGDI), where each god gets a stat block and five or six custom Charms made up for that god by the writer. I've seen people playing gods since early 1e, though. It'll be easier to houserule god PCs in 3e to the extent that it'll be easier to houserule 3e in general. Stephenls fucked around with this message at 00:34 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 00:17
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Stephenls posted:It'll be easier to houserule god PCs in 3e to the extent that it'll be easier to houserule 3e in general. I remember hearing this from pretty early on, but I'm not sure I've read anything in particular as to how. Any chance you're able to say what makes 3e more easily houserule-able than previous editions?
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May 27, 2014 00:47
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Doc Aquatic posted:I remember hearing this from pretty early on, but I'm not sure I've read anything in particular as to how. Any chance you're able to say what makes 3e more easily houserule-able than previous editions? I think just generally being more solid and less clusterfucky in terms of system quality and hanging-together-ness. Also the Exigents hardcover is going to be The Big Book Of Charm-Creation Advice.
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May 27, 2014 01:30
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Stephenls posted:since they're primarily used as NPCs This is really chicken-and-egg though. Any NPC capsule is better off with five or six custom charms instead of 'here's some charms from their splatbook'. I would love to get some stats on how many people use Abyssals and Lunars and DBs primarily as NPCs. I suspect it's high.
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May 27, 2014 01:53
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xiw posted:This is really chicken-and-egg though. Any NPC capsule is better off with five or six custom charms instead of 'here's some charms from their splatbook'. Oh, we have the quick character system for that, too. EDIT: Man, this looks sorta dumb, doesn't it? "We're not doing god PCs because we want to keep their stats normatively formatted in an abbreviated way that's most useful for NPCs. Also, we're going to have a standard NPC format that's abbreviated, and it'll be useful for all the groups that are optimized as PCs!" I think the real answer is just that we don't currently prioritize support for divine PCs over all the various and sundry other stuff we want to cover. Stephenls fucked around with this message at 03:26 on May 27, 2014 |
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May 27, 2014 01:56
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Any chance Fair Folk are going to be usable in a sensible fashion this time around or is the genie out of the bottle on that one? I recall that one of my greatest disappointments back in 1st edition was reading the Fair Folk book and seeing what a horrendous useless mess that was. I don't count the Fair Folk errata from 2.5 as 'usable' so much as 'not at all worth the effort of using despite the fact that it theoretically works'.
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May 27, 2014 04:51
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Ithle01 posted:Any chance Fair Folk are going to be usable in a sensible fashion this time around or is the genie out of the bottle on that one? I recall that one of my greatest disappointments back in 1st edition was reading the Fair Folk book and seeing what a horrendous useless mess that was. I don't count the Fair Folk errata from 2.5 as 'usable' so much as 'not at all worth the effort of using despite the fact that it theoretically works'. We plan to make Fair Folk completely mechanically different this time around, last I checked, with a focus on making them useful in Creation-based games rather than specialized for their own venue that very few people care about.
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May 27, 2014 04:53
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xiw posted:This is really chicken-and-egg though. Any NPC capsule is better off with five or six custom charms instead of 'here's some charms from their splatbook'. e: This may be because of 2E more than the Solars themselves, of course.
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May 27, 2014 04:54
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Can I still eat babies as a Fae, like play as the fat bastard from austin powers but he's now an elf guy but he's still GET IN MAH BELLAY when he sees the baby you know just like that
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May 27, 2014 04:55
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TheLovablePlutonis posted:Can I still eat babies as a Fae, like play as the fat bastard from austin powers but he's now an elf guy but he's still GET IN MAH BELLAY when he sees the baby you know just like that Well, given my previously stated position on baby-eating, what do you think?
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May 27, 2014 05:00
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Stephenls posted:Well, given my previously stated position on baby-eating, what do you think? That's an yes then. Awesome!!!
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May 27, 2014 05:01
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Stephenls posted:We plan to make Fair Folk completely mechanically different this time around, last I checked, with a focus on making them useful in Creation-based games rather than specialized for their own venue that very few people care about. Yes. Gods. Thank you. I know Fair Folk always appealed to a very... specific kind of gamer, but I'd like more options than, "this one specific build that works in Creation" or "weird fairy land in a world that has completely different folklore than our own."
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May 27, 2014 06:31
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That said we do plan on looting the hell out of the interesting ideas in Exalted: The Fair Folk. The raksha will still be recognizably the raksha—they'll just have a much, much more easy-to-grasp mechanical representation.
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May 27, 2014 06:39
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xiw posted:I would love to get some stats on how many people use Abyssals and Lunars and DBs primarily as NPCs. I suspect it's high. We did a fair bit of troupe-style play with players running Dragon-Bloods. Abyssals and Lunars were pretty much always NPCs, though I built them as if they were PCs. (Anathema made that easy, so my NPCs always followed the same rules as PCs, when it came to Exalts.)
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May 27, 2014 07:03
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:You could probably also justify a Soulsteel Caste Alchemical. Been wanting to play a Soulsteel Caste Alchemical leading a socialist ghost revolution in the Underworld.
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May 27, 2014 13:32
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xiw posted:This is really chicken-and-egg though. Any NPC capsule is better off with five or six custom charms instead of 'here's some charms from their splatbook'. It was my experience that 2E had a lot more use of DBs and Lunars as PCs because combat using Solar PCs could become degenerate at much lower experience levels. DBs were more of a low-power setting where the system didn't explode and had the best combo rules, and Lunars had more alternatives to "Get a perfect defense and be able to use it as many times as possible" at lower experience levels. I didn't see hardly any use of Sidereal PCs, which breaks my heart, and all-Solar games were the most common single splat game I observed, but all-DB games were fairly close. This is just my first-person perspective on the limited sample I observed. I only saw Abyssals used as NPCs until someone started running a really excellent Abyssal PC game on these forums. I applied for it on a whim because it was billed as an over-the-top pirate game, but I was seriously wondering "Abyssals? What sick motherfucker plays Abyssals?" While Infernals got talked about a lot on the WW forums, I saw few Infernals games actually materialize, but saw tons of submissions of Infernals, usually aspiring Devil-Tigers, to mixed-splat games and Exalted Chat RP, to the point where a lot of people did not want to see them any more, at least until the consensus that the first two chapters of the book should die in a fire was reached.
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May 27, 2014 14:20
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I used to play on Exalted MUSHes, so here's how it tended to break down there:
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May 27, 2014 14:59
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MiltonSlavemasta posted:
This is interesting. Speaking purely anecdotally, I've found that in years of Exalted gaming that Solar PCs were more interested in co-opting the Realm and keeping it's social structures except in service to a reformed Celestial Deliberative than commiting mass genocide. I've even seen Twilight PCs who had as Motivations projects to restore the 10 Thousand Dragons to their full million plus fighting strength. Nearly all of the Solar PCs who have appeared in the 2E games that I have run have seen Terrestrials as absolutely necessary tools in establishing their empires and goals. Maybe it's a local thing by me.
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May 27, 2014 15:52
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Alien Rope Burn posted:I used to play on Exalted MUSHes, so here's how it tended to break down there: Also, the unique horror of seeing characters with 1,500 (count 'em) XP spent on their sheets. I remember one fella on one place had a note in his character info saying, basically: "If you lie to my character he will know instantly, and he will kill you."
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May 27, 2014 20:06
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Nothing says White Wolf like the ability to produce an entity or effect of totally arbitrary power by sitting in your basement rolling the same dicepool over and over.
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May 27, 2014 20:13
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Ferrinus posted:Nothing says White Wolf like the ability to produce an entity or effect of totally arbitrary power by sitting in your basement rolling the same dicepool over and over.
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May 27, 2014 20:17
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Nessus posted:Did you encounter the phenomenon of "I sit in a room somewhere and make stacking crafting rolls for two months, then set forth to dominate Creation with my giant army of (tiger-warrior trainees/zombies/bootlegged Alchemicals/beastmen/cloned-off-necrotech-using-clockwork-that-worked-exactly-the-same-way-but-wasn't-ucky-ew/angry ducks)" on those games? 'cause that's what I saw a lot of. Occasionally, though that requires a MUSHstaff who's actually willing to track that poo poo. And that's too lazy to make them jump through hoops for it... (Also that sounds like Cronos from the game below. Kronos? Whichever.) Nessus posted:Also, the unique horror of seeing characters with 1,500 (count 'em) XP spent on their sheets. I remember one fella on one place had a note in his character info saying, basically: "If you lie to my character he will know instantly, and he will kill you." And he had Zeal (which he used to justify his sociopathic adherence to truth), and archery and athletics charms to chase you anywhere and murder you from anywhere within several miles? Also cybernetic legs that let him go even faster.
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May 27, 2014 20:55
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Alien Rope Burn posted:Occasionally, though that requires a MUSHstaff who's actually willing to track that poo poo. And that's too lazy to make them jump through hoops for it...
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May 27, 2014 22:24
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I have to admit being vaguely curious about how anyone planned to do any conquering with armies of crafted/tiger warriored/whatever minions though given the general irrelevance of anything who was not a combat focused exalt on those games. I distinctly remember making a dragon blooded the on one Exalted MUSH incarnation who could basically kill infinite numbers of anything up to and including second circle demons even if they would have had trouble vs an experienced celestial. That was before they got Dragon Vortex.
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May 27, 2014 23:36
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Patrat posted:I have to admit being vaguely curious about how anyone planned to do any conquering with armies of crafted/tiger warriored/whatever minions though given the general irrelevance of anything who was not a combat focused exalt on those games. I distinctly remember making a dragon blooded the on one Exalted MUSH incarnation who could basically kill infinite numbers of anything up to and including second circle demons even if they would have had trouble vs an experienced celestial. That was before they got Dragon Vortex. The best way to kill an Exalt was to cause mass combat to happen, because then they'll die of boredom.
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May 27, 2014 23:48
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Patrat posted:I have to admit being vaguely curious about how anyone planned to do any conquering with armies of crafted/tiger warriored/whatever minions though given the general irrelevance of anything who was not a combat focused exalt on those games. I distinctly remember making a dragon blooded the on one Exalted MUSH incarnation who could basically kill infinite numbers of anything up to and including second circle demons even if they would have had trouble vs an experienced celestial. That was before they got Dragon Vortex. And she was all out of catgirl sex.
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May 28, 2014 01:14
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