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Morrison probably would have gotten a title run if he had stuck around, but that's not saying much anymore.
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May 27, 2014 20:34
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Rusty Shackelford posted:The point system favored takedowns, which would have made it more advantageous for someone with an amateur background. Plus they were all wearing boxing gloves which (and someone can correct me if I'm wrong) makes it more difficult to punch and get knock-outs. So, it was set up to focus on the amateur side and someone like Williams would have had a stronger advantage going in. They didn't expect Williams to win because they had ingeniously rigged the rules in his favour. Nothing involving the Brawl-for-All was done with any measure of genius. Williams wasn't even the most decorated amateur wrestler going into the tournament; that would be Severn. They expected him to win because they were seriously marks for his badass reputation. They didn't get that there's a world of difference between a guy with a reputation as a barroom brawler, who was a good athlete years ago, and a guy with serious full-contact martial arts experience who is in shape for competition.
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May 27, 2014 20:39
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Halloween Jack posted:Yes, you are very wrong. One, boxing gloves protect the puncher's hands and allow him to hit harder. Two, they make it difficult to get takedowns. For amateurs, don't gloves make it more difficult to keep your hands up and then tire you out? And then, because you are more tired, your punches don't have the same oomph that you would hope they had? Takedowns were 5 points EACH while punches were only 5 points for the most in one round. Clearly, they thought that the fights would have a larger wrestling component.
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May 27, 2014 20:43
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Rusty Shackelford posted:For amateurs, don't gloves make it more difficult to keep your hands up and then tire you out? And then, because you are more tired, your punches don't have the same oomph that you would hope they had? No. Boxing gloves make your fist way bigger and let you not break your hands. They don't make it significantly more difficult to keep your hands up -- not that endurance was Bart Gunn's issue in that fight. They thought a lot of things about Brawl for All, none of which were correct, because it was the dumbest loving thing ever.
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May 27, 2014 20:45
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Rusty Shackelford posted:For amateurs, don't gloves make it more difficult to keep your hands up and then tire you out? And then, because you are more tired, your punches don't have the same oomph that you would hope they had? In years past there had been wrestler vs. boxer matches where the boxer wore gloves and the wrestler didn't, which as it turns out, immediately decides the match in favour of the wrestler because he can go for takedowns which the boxer is now almost helpless to defend. But that's tangential to your misconception that "boxing gloves which...makes it more difficult to punch and get knock-outs," which is very incorrect. Ultimately, gloves protect the hands and make for harder hits.
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May 27, 2014 20:52
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So do those of you who think Morrison is a better promo than Orton watch Raw on mute because I don't think you heard any of Randy's stuff from last fall/winter and I know you didn't hear any of Morrison's from ever.
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May 27, 2014 21:17
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Orton was good when they told him to speed up his delivery so he wouldn't get chanted over all the time, and it worked, but that lasted only a few weeks iirc. Don't know anything about Morrison.
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May 27, 2014 21:27
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Morrison in a pre-tape or even a backstage segment was brilliant. Morrison with a mic in front of a live crowd was embarrassing. Mr Ziggles was so bad he had to repeat it several times to get the crowd to half-heartedly chant it, and crowds will chant anything. It was like the anti Austin 3:16 promo.
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May 27, 2014 21:31
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Mechafunkzilla posted:And then they made Bart Gunn, notable for not being a professional boxer, fight a professional boxer in a boxing match. Noted reliable source Bob Holly says that was punishment for beating Steve Williams but then again he's noted reliable source Bob Holly. flashy_mcflash posted:That kind of sounds like you're describing Randy Orton there. Orton might be a 'C' on the mic, or maybe a B- on a good day though. Let us consult TEW 2013.  Looks like a B- to me!
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May 27, 2014 21:52
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oatgan posted:So do those of you who think Morrison is a better promo than Orton watch Raw on mute because I don't think you heard any of Randy's stuff from last fall/winter and I know you didn't hear any of Morrison's from ever. Orton can just be really boring sometimes. He talks slow, pauses a lot and tries way too hard to be dramatic. But Morrison at times was really embarrassing to listen to. Backstage segments were just as bad. The only thing I think anybody can point at that he seemed great in was DIRT SHEET and that was supposed to be really corny.
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May 27, 2014 21:54
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Luigi Thirty posted:Noted reliable source Bob Holly says that was punishment for beating Steve Williams but then again he's noted reliable source Bob Holly.
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May 27, 2014 21:55
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HulkaMatt posted:Orton can just be really boring sometimes. He talks slow, pauses a lot and tries way too hard to be dramatic. Sorry I don't trust the Dirt Sheet.
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May 27, 2014 21:58
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Was it even a real dirt sheet? Where's rovert?
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May 27, 2014 22:06
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Is TEW good now? I tried it like five years ago and it was so bogged down. For reference, I find football Manager 2011 to be the pinnacle of gaming.
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May 27, 2014 22:12
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I was always a big fan of Morrison. There was a time in 2010 or so when I really thought they were pushing him toward the title. Drafting him to Raw in 2010 was a big mistake, I thought. He would've been championship material on Smackdown around that time, once Taker and Kane were done with their silly magic powers feud. He was really solid in the ring, could hang with the best guys on the roster, and his promoing wasn't THAT bad - it was more writing than lack of ability. He might not have been the best talker but he was never given anything good to work with either.
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May 27, 2014 22:24
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Morrison had this really awesome spot at a house show I went to. He knocked his opponent down and was trying to do a Rick Rude hip swivel, but the other guy punched him. So Morrison just flipped out, started stomping him and *angrily hip swiveling* in-between stomps. Morrison loving rules. 
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May 27, 2014 22:36
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keithy george posted:Whoever put Sex Appeal at E really hasn't been listening to those crowd reactions. E is good for a male wrestler. I think Brock is an F-. He's still a B+ player going by Star Quality. I'd be more concerned at who put down Paul Heyman as a middleweight...
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May 28, 2014 00:37
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Luigi Thirty posted:E is good for a male wrestler. I think Brock is an F-. He's still a B+ player going by Star Quality. He's certainly got weight around his middle.
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May 28, 2014 01:08
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Watching random old ECW episodes is funny. Shane Douglas is doing this like 10 minute long pretaped promo on Ric Flair, did they actually expect something to come from this?
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May 28, 2014 03:23
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Morrison once delivered a promo that was so bad that the next week they had Jeff Hardy literally watch paint dry and make a joke that it was better than Morrison's promo.
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May 28, 2014 03:29
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Jerusalem posted:Morrison once delivered a promo that was so bad that the next week they had Jeff Hardy literally watch paint dry and make a joke that it was better than Morrison's promo. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8HuBt7av9TI
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May 28, 2014 03:38
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triplexpac posted:Watching random old ECW episodes is funny. Shane Douglas is doing this like 10 minute long pretaped promo on Ric Flair, did they actually expect something to come from this? He did those to get himself over, nothing more. They knew Flair wasn't coming over to ECW.
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May 28, 2014 03:40
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SAVE_US.CHR
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HulkaMatt posted:The only thing I think anybody can point at that he seemed great in was DIRT SHEET and that was supposed to be really corny. Hopefuly I'm not making this up, but didn't either Miz or Morrison once attribute the success of The Dirt Sheet to the random director the WWE assigned to produce the low-budget internet shows? My understanding was that as the characters of Miz and Morrison were being written for the internet show, they were being steered with a real direction by the small team working on it, and that also extended to how the characters would act on TV, and gave them lots of material to work into their ECW promos. When The Dirt Sheet ended and they moved to RAW, Miz and Morrison both went from having the support and direction of a tight group of people, to being handed a promo script, and having to single handedly figure out themselves how their character should deliver it. Miz went on to great success, but had the advantage of being able to carry on the direction he was already being aimed in, while Morrison had to make the switch to Babyface. I don't think it's so much that he's a bad promo, but the huge change of enviroment that went on behind the scenes? For a while, he was in an awesome place, with hard working people making sure he could deliver on his potential, and then all of a sudden, he was a deer in the headlights :{ Tyma fucked around with this message at 03:55 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 03:53
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I don't know if this line reading is better or worse than Dean Malenko's promo reading. He's been trying to contact you on numerous o-ccasions. Trying to open your heart and enlighten you and open your eyes. 
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May 28, 2014 04:07
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Dean-o sounds like he escaped from the set of Kung Pow.
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May 28, 2014 04:13
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triplexpac posted:Watching random old ECW episodes is funny. Shane Douglas is doing this like 10 minute long pretaped promo on Ric Flair, did they actually expect something to come from this? Yes. http://www.411mania.com/wrestling/video_reviews/207235/Kayfabe!---Timeline-The-History-Of-ECW-1994-As-Told-By-Shane-Douglas.htm quote:Sean asks if there was true that Flair was coming to ECW? At one point there apparently was. Flair wanted a huge guarantee, $150,000.00, which wasn’t feasible for Paul. So the plan was to run three shows with Flair vs. Shane, a match in Charlotte, Pittsburgh, and Philly at the Spectrum, but Flair backed out and re-signed with WCW.
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May 28, 2014 05:04
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The best part about that figure is you can lop off some zeroes and it still isn't feasible for Paul.
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May 28, 2014 05:08
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EugeneJ posted:Yes. Flair was under contract to WCW throughout 1994.
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May 28, 2014 05:09
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Jerusalem posted:Morrison once delivered a promo that was so bad that the next week they had Jeff Hardy literally watch paint dry and make a joke that it was better than Morrison's promo. Dude was high as gently caress. Some guys always give a lovely promo because they're stoned (Jeff Hardy, RVD, Mysterio). I could see Morrison as a Christian-sytle king of the midcard who's allowed to "break the glass ceiling" once in a while as part of a storyline and wrestle a few main event matches.
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May 28, 2014 05:26
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MassRafTer posted:Flair was under contract to WCW throughout 1994. Right, but ECW and WCW had a working agreement at the time. EDIT: Shane has attributed the story to both 1994 and 1998 depending on the interview, so who knows: http://www.thecoli.com/threads/news-week-more-shane-douglas-mick-on-mania-todd-pentengail-resigning.439/page-4 quote:Flair had started discussions with ECW when he had his problems with Bischoff, about working with me. His concern to Paul Heyman was, that I would shoot on him. He wanted $150,000 for one match which we couldn’t possibly afford that. So I suggested to Paul, offer back to him, 3 shows, first one in Charlotte. I put him over, 55 minutes. Second, Pittsburgh he puts me over, same time frame. Third time in Philadelphia, I have no doubts that promoted well, we could’ve sold the Spectrum out. EugeneJ fucked around with this message at 05:41 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 05:36
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EugeneJ posted:Right, but ECW and WCW had a working agreement at the time. 1998 is the only year it could be and in 98 he was never close to signing with ECW, he was closer to signing with the WWF. Shane did those interviews for years just to get himself over and then they briefly talked about Flair coming in during the WCW lawsuit. That's it.
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May 28, 2014 05:42
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titties posted:Dude was high as gently caress. Some guys always give a lovely promo because they're stoned (Jeff Hardy, RVD, Mysterio). I could see Morrison as a Christian-sytle king of the midcard who's allowed to "break the glass ceiling" once in a while as part of a storyline and wrestle a few main event matches. This was also when he was in full 70s psychedelic rock guru character, which had goofy-rear end catchphrases like "palace of wisdom" and "shaman of sexy" written into his promos. Too bad they never gave him a mouthpiece. I don't know if he could pull off being a Heyman guy, but someone who fit his gimmick and could promote him well could've made him main event material.
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May 28, 2014 07:43
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Have there been any notable (Non Danny Dangerous) ref blade-jobs? If you're gonna cite TNA, don't bother.
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May 28, 2014 09:04
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sticklefifer posted:This was also when he was in full 70s psychedelic rock guru character, which had goofy-rear end catchphrases like "palace of wisdom" and "shaman of sexy" written into his promos. Miz was good as his mouthpiece. "Don't hate this guy because he has a better coat than you!"
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May 28, 2014 11:45
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Desumaytah posted:Have there been any notable (Non Danny Dangerous) ref blade-jobs? The triangle ladder match at PWG's Threemendous III had Rick Knox getting clocked by a ladder from the Young Bucks. He was bleeding when he was lifted up by the other officials. Then he came back out to push the bucks off the ladder and did a dive to the outside on to them. (I know you meant notable but the match was one of the craziest matches I've ever seen) Didn't Tim White start bleeding after he got injured at Judgement Day 04 against Jericho and HHH in the hell in the cell?
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May 28, 2014 12:32
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BillyMays posted:
That wasn't wise.
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May 28, 2014 13:14
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Halloween Jack posted:Yes, you are very wrong. One, boxing gloves protect the puncher's hands and allow him to hit harder. Two, they make it difficult to get takedowns. Williams was legit tough and expected to win. But according to JR (who I know is a Dr. Death mark), Williams tore his ACL during the first match and that helped in the defeat. This was all meant to get Dr. Death over and it failed spectacularly.
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May 28, 2014 16:51
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Cornette backs up that story. But "legit tough" based on what? Beating up unruly marks in the audience, or some guy in a barfight?
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May 28, 2014 16:58
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Halloween Jack posted:Cornette backs up that story. But "legit tough" based on what? Beating up unruly marks in the audience, or some guy in a barfight? Guy in a barfight tough, which does not translate to toughman contest tough.
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May 28, 2014 17:01
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Onmi posted:Guy in a barfight tough, which does not translate to toughman contest tough. He had a legit amateur wrestling background and made it to the finals of a NCAA tournament. Of course, the toughman style rules rather than MMA rules wouldn't have helped him as much. Thauros fucked around with this message at 17:07 on May 28, 2014 |
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