|
Sentinel Red posted:Tell me they're not making Kate Kane a vampire. Surely even DC wouldn't be *that* lame. 
|
#
?
May 27, 2014 14:25
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:01 |
|
|
Sentinel Red posted:Tell me they're not making Kate Kane a vampire. Surely even DC wouldn't be *that* lame. Given how pale her skin is presented whenever she is in costume, I had long since assumed that she was a vampire. That or she was kicked into the same chemical mix as the Joker.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2014 15:04
|
|
|
Sentinel Red posted:Tell me they're not making Kate Kane a vampire. Surely even DC wouldn't be *that* lame. Why the hell would they turn Batwoman into a vampire? That sounds dumb as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2014 15:10
|
|
|
Trast posted:Why the hell would they turn Batwoman into a vampire? That sounds dumb as gently caress. Its not like lesbians have had a negative depiction in media as vampires. DC would not be stupid enough to bring that back, would they? (yes, yes they would)
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2014 15:13
|
|
|
Trast posted:Why the hell would they turn Batwoman into a vampire? That sounds dumb as gently caress.  Didio's secret passion is Jess Franco movies
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2014 15:13
|
|
|
Trast posted:Why the hell would they turn Batwoman into a vampire? That sounds dumb as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2014 15:15
|
|
|
Trast posted:Why the hell would they turn Batwoman into a vampire? I'll let this guy answer that. Trast posted:That sounds dumb as gently caress.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2014 15:20
|
|
|
Just to clarify, Batwoman becoming a Vampire is part of the 5YL month where everything wnet to poo poo thanks to Brother Eye.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2014 15:37
|
|
|
SirDan3k posted:I'll let this guy answer that. Nice.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2014 16:17
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Just to clarify, Batwoman becoming a Vampire is part of the 5YL month where everything wnet to poo poo thanks to Brother Eye. Pretty much this. Just treat everything in September as an annual/special issue showing a "what if" situation.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2014 17:00
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:Just to clarify, Batwoman becoming a Vampire is part of the 5YL month where everything wnet to poo poo thanks to Brother Eye. Here's the cover for #34, which isn't out in crazy future month.  e: Maybe Andreyko heard Albuquerque was going to do his covers and accommodated. Teenage Fansub fucked around with this message at 23:34 on May 27, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 27, 2014 23:26
|
|
|
I dunno, I thought that Jubilee becoming a vampire was alright after I warmed up to it. And I liked I, Vampire. And what the hell, Kate already hangs out at night and looks like a vampire anyway, why not just give her a short power boost! That's so hopelessly optimistic, this is DC in the New 52 and this story is being wrote by someone who's literally only done his waifu character Manhunter. The thing I love the most about DC is they spectacularly gently caress something up and Marvel just puts out a better on-going as an alternative. Sorry, you liked Blue Beetle? Here, have Ghost Rider with great art! Supergirl and Stephanie Brown aren't doing to well? Have some Ms. Marvel! Justice League sucks? Oh, how about we just write them into our own story in Avengers.
|
|
#
?
May 27, 2014 23:40
|
|
|
Teenage Fansub posted:Here's the cover for #34, which isn't out in crazy future month. Wait a second. Alberquerque did the art? Clearly this means one thing. Batwoman/American Vampire crossover confirmed.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 00:03
|
|
|
Teenage Fansub posted:Here's the cover for #34, which isn't out in crazy future month. Then again, it's a clever cross promotion gimmick if they do a "Batwoman has to deal with a Vampire story. Will she become a member of the undead?" story in the main book, then use the 5 Year Later gap to say "Look, she's a vampire 5 years from now." That way it seems that she's predetermined to lose in the story. Then they can do a Vince Russo Level swerve and not have her go full on vamp. (Or maybe do, but introduce a cure into it.) Plus it involves Noctura who is an obscure, but pre-existing Batman vampire based character. Having her show up isn't the worst, most offensive move possible. It's raised my interest at least.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 00:05
|
|
|
Flameingblack posted:The thing I love the most about DC is they spectacularly gently caress something up and Marvel just puts out a better on-going as an alternative. Sorry, you liked Blue Beetle? Here, have Ghost Rider with great art! Supergirl and Stephanie Brown aren't doing to well? Have some Ms. Marvel! Justice League sucks? Oh, how about we just write them into our own story in Avengers. 
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 09:58
|
|
|
Meet Helena Bertinelli:
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 16:52
|
|
|
At this point it makes it look like DC is just making everyone black just to see which one sticks and sells comics so they can shout "SEE! DIVERSITY!" without even bothering to make them interesting characters that anyone would want to read, like Ultimate Spider-Man, or Spider-Girl, or Ghost Rider, or Ms. Marvel, or any number of successful new racially diverse characters that Marvel's released.irlZaphod posted:Not to mention Blackman leaving Batwoman and doing Elektra.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 19:09
|
|
|
Flameingblack posted:At this point it makes it look like DC is just making everyone black just to see which one sticks and sells comics so they can shout "SEE! DIVERSITY!" without even bothering to make them interesting characters that anyone would want to read, like Ultimate Spider-Man, or Spider-Girl, or Ghost Rider, or Ms. Marvel, or any number of successful new racially diverse characters that Marvel's released.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 19:23
|
|
|
Flameingblack posted:At this point it makes it look like DC is just making everyone black just to see which one sticks and sells comics so they can shout "SEE! DIVERSITY!" without even bothering to make them interesting characters that anyone would want to read, like Ultimate Spider-Man, or Spider-Girl, or Ghost Rider, or Ms. Marvel, or any number of successful new racially diverse characters that Marvel's released. I'm curious about this, aside of the skin color is there any difference or relevance to their race? In my experience since all the comic book characters operate on US cities their race is mostly aesthetic. Something that is actually true to life, I live on Mexico City and I doubt we're that different to you people on the states on our daily life. I said it before but for diversity I'd really like to have a more international talent working on the big characters or barring that, having the characters live and operate outside of the US but not on isolated islands. I dunno, have a latino character fighing crime on Mexico or Venezuela or a hero on Morroco. It would be a titanic cast since is rare for a writer to accurately depict a foreign country though.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 19:28
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:I'm curious about this, aside of the skin color is there any difference or relevance to their race? But like someone else brought up, does it matter if Aqua Lad is black or white or purple? He's from the loving ocean, it's not like he's from a struggling family in Harlem, how do you look up to that as inspiring? At least make the attempt to diversify the characters instead of just changing their skin color and literally nothing else changes. For a long time Marvel and DC were very guilty of white-washing people of color and just making them act like everyone else, except throwing some stereotypes into them. RealFoxy fucked around with this message at 19:53 on May 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 19:49
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:
I haven't read it but I think initially Batwing did this by having it take place in some made up African country. Then the character became another character and it moved to Gotham. One thing I liked about Batman, Inc was that it was about giving a more international flavour to the DCU and had characters operate in their own country, not just America. As for minority characters I was glad Johns introduced Baz as it least he was trying to diversify outside of just Black and White. I stopped reading GL a looooong time ago though, so I have no idea what has happened with Baz. A current trend with DC however is to reintroduce old character but as a different race (ie Wally West). Well it is admirable that they are trying to diversify their line, I am kind of put off by the fact that they are reintroducing character instead of creating new ones. Sure the new Wally West is Wally West in name only, and is different from the original but I would have liked DC to actually come up with a new Flash with a new name. The best example of this is Ultimate Spiderman. Miles Morales is a new character, not a character named Peter Parker but who happens to be half-latino, half-black. It might be a small nitpick but by giving the new character a new name it opens up a lot more and also doesn't draw the need for comparisons.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 20:01
|
|
|
Flameingblack posted:Other than the colors of their skin, a lot of the times that's literally the only difference. Ms. Marvel, the original Blue Beetle run, and early Spider-Girl (Before her on-going) were more than just people with different colored skin, and they had really, really good merits for family and tradition that didn't come off as overly racist or ham-fisted for the sake of diversity. See, from my perspective every character behaves like every other north american person on the media and with Jaime old series (since is the only one I've actually readed) they just spice it with some mexican stereotypes regarding family when living on cities we're pretty much the same, we enjoy the same music, the same movies,we spend time having fun with our friends or working; is the little things that set us apart as nations, our expressions, our food, our humor. Returning to BB, I don't remember him making an altar for his deceased family on Dia de Muertos, or having tortillas ready for every meal. Now don't misundertsand me, that didn't made the book bad but it wasn't a faithful representation of mexican people. Being a mexican dude reading/enjoying US media having a non-white character is irrelevant since they're always depicted like being equal to the white characters. Is actually kind of weird to make those distinctions, you know? I've met a lot of people and personalities aside, they're just like me so I don't understand that fixation for diversity nowadays. Madkal posted:As for minority characters I was glad Johns introduced Baz as it least he was trying to diversify outside of just Black and White. I stopped reading GL a looooong time ago though, so I have no idea what has happened with Baz. Totally agree with this, they should introduce new characters and no changing old ones just because. Dark_Tzitzimine fucked around with this message at 20:07 on May 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 20:04
|
|
|
I guess my only complaint is that DC seems completely hyped up on changing characters' races while staunchly refusing to bring back some of their more popular characters of color (coughCassCaincough). On that note, I guess Batman Eternal is going to have a Hong Kong storyline? How much do you want to bet a certain bat-character supposedly based there never appears and is never mentioned?
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 20:07
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:See, from my perspective every character behaves like every other north american person on the media and with Jaime old series (since is the only one I've actually readed) they just spice it with some mexican stereotypes regarding family when living on cities we're pretty much the same, we enjoy the same music, the same movies,we spend time having fun with our friends or working; is the little things that set us apart as nations, our expressions, our food, our humor. I think the biggest problem with comics at this point isn't a lack of diversity in characters, but rather a lack of diversity in creators. I was honestly kind of disappointed when I looked up Al Ewing after reading the first issue of Mighty Avengers and realizing he was white. I still really like the book, but the whole idea of a diverse team of Avengers kind of falls flat when this is the creative team.   I'm hoping that as creators in the industry grow more diverse all of these problems start to fade away. Man I can't believe I agreed with a D_T post that much.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 20:53
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:I don't understand that fixation for diversity nowadays. Here is a good reason for diverity: The "white = default" thing is a serious problem because even on just a purely visual level, ignoring literally everything about culture or different social experiences, people instinctively jump to white = main hero because it is almost all they are ever shown and that carries over to real people in the real world. Even 'meaningless' diversity is important because it cuts down on the image as white = default protagonist and puts forth the idea that anyone can be a hero. Superhero comics were started during an insanely loving racist time and that is a serious problem. DC comics is unwilling to evolve from that time. They want to cling to their goddamn status quo insanely hard and are terrified that they might have to step away from childhood nostalgia. Even their attempts at diversity are kind of goddamn pathetic if you look at it. "Hey guys, Green Lantern is gay! Haha, no, not any of the ones people commonly associate with the Green Lantern name and certainly not the one we'd put in a film but still! Green Lantern! Gay!" "Hey guys, we made Wally West black! You like that, right? I mean he isn't really The Flash and he never will be because there's no way on Earth we're ever killing Barry Allen off again but it's sort of like having a black major superhero." "Hey guys! The Huntress is black now! No, not Batgirl. Not Batwoman either! In fact, not actually the Huntress even! Instead this is an character who WAS the Huntress at some point in an alternate timeline but we have a different Huntress! She's black though so we qualify as diverse now, right?" What we need is diversity in creators as well but the solution isn't "Well, don't even bother trying!" It isn't even what DC is doing and just randomly changing character's skin color. It is to let your goddamn universe evolve instead of trying to frantically shoehorn it into what it was like when you were a teenager. DC had a good thing going with legacy heroes which would have, over time, allowed them to evolve and then they cut it out and ran goddamn backwards with it. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:20 on May 28, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 21:18
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Here is a good reason for diverity: While I definitely agree that diversity is very important to comics, in Helena's case, I don't think DC actually made her black. She just seems to be olive skinned.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 21:29
|
|
|
Kind of curious for a comparison of minority characters pre-Nu52 vs Nu52.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 21:37
|
|
|
ImpAtom posted:Here is a good reason for diverity: They tried to do that with Baz and I'm one of the few who actually liked him. I have to disagree with the bolded part since I think you're being understimating how people outside the US react. Here in Mexico there's this curious dychotomy towards the north americans, we admire and try to imitate the rich and famous but we felt offended if you'd came here to do anything. The fact we saw white people being heroes on the media doesn't mean we think (or even want) for them to be heroes on real life. Anyways *Suicide Squad was entertaining and Deadhshot is pretty much the same dude from the old DCU (mustache included) with no real explanation, is amusing. *Larfleeze was a lot of fun shame that is ending *Aquaman was kind of convulted and Swamp Thing appearance felt forced *JLD was interesting even if the art was kind of rough *Flash, Eternal and Catwoman were awful *Batman was good, oddly enough *All Star Western was also good but you can feel how they're rushing things *Superman was a nice bridge but it certainly wasn't as good as Doomed previous issues *Future's End plot thickens while Grifter gets hosed over again *Lobdell knocked out of the park with Kory's origin *Nigthwing has a realle interesting premise and lots of potential for Grayson but the angle of Dick being dead doesn't makes a lot of sense and only paints Bruce like being a MASSSIVE rear end in a top hat.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 21:39
|
|
|
You know that not everyone in the US is white, right?
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 21:50
|
|
|
irlZaphod posted:You know that not everyone in the US is white, right? Yep, but as I said it before race isn't an issue here in Mexico (or to me) so I could be missing some facts here in the same way a lot of people misses facts when talking about other countries.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 21:56
|
|
|
irlZaphod posted:You know that not everyone in the US is white, right? That's not what Hollywood taught me.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 21:57
|
|
|
Sentinel Red posted:Tell me they're not making Kate Kane a vampire. Surely even DC wouldn't be *that* lame. Guess they are going to make Wild World of Batwoman canon.  But yeah, I wouldn't be surprised considering how pale they always show her in the costume that they just figured "well make her pale all the time now".
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 22:22
|
|
|
Dark_Tzitzimine posted:I'm curious about this, aside of the skin color is there any difference or relevance to their race? This creates a national mindset where young people of color are not able to see themselves or others like them and feel invisible or underrepresented, other than as stereotypes. This also makes it so that white people have a skewed, distorted view of the world around them that doesn't reflect reality, and makes it easier for young white kids to see themselves as the "default" and everyone else as the "other." So, yes, even something as "aesthetic" as the skin color of your characters in your books, even disregarding any other changes, is incredibly relevant. Flameingblack posted:But like someone else brought up, does it matter if Aqua Lad is black or white or purple? He's from the loving ocean, it's not like he's from a struggling family in Harlem, how do you look up to that as inspiring? At least make the attempt to diversify the characters instead of just changing their skin color and literally nothing else changes. More to the point, the reason that diversity in this context is important is so that people can look at a character who, by all rights, doesn't need to be black but is black anyway just to show that a character doesn't need to be white; the fact alone that you considered this Aqualad character to have had his race changed when he was always black suggests that there is a bias, either consciously or unconsciously, towards "white Aqualad" as a norm and anything else as a deviation from that. Diversity is important in this context because little black kids can look at a character that looks like them in their books and perceive that his powers and origins don't need to be based on their race, just like white characters don't need a racial reason to have their powers and storyline. So that not every single non-white character is either Luke Cage, whose storyline was laced with racial issues, or Vixen, who got her powers by African magic. Not that there's anything wrong with Luke Cage or Vixen at all. We need minority characters in books where their minority status affects their characterization and daily lives, like them and like the new Ms. Marvel...and we also need minority characters where their minority status doesn't seem to affect too much, like Aqualad and the new Ghost Rider. We need both those things and more because we need to offset this bizarre disingenuous perspective that some minority characters are done "right" or done "wrong" based on how their minority status is handled, and in the meantime straight white male characters can literally be done in any possible way and no one would ever, in a million years, say something like "Wow, what a bad straight/white/male character."
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 22:29
|
|
|
Can't we give these characters enough issues to become characters till we judge them? I haven't read Nightwing yet, but I'm guessing the new Huntress got maybe two pages?Flameingblack posted:Marvel is knocking it out of the park with every single "Marvel Now!" they've done Not to perpetuate moronic company fighting, but... Morbius, Avengers Arena/ Undercover, Superior Spider-Man, X-Force x 3, Thunderbolts till Soule, New Defenders, Inhuman (as far as it's been), Wolverine, Savage Wolverine, current Fantastic Four, New Warriors. I haven't read half of those, just going by gleamed possibly incorrect opinion, but every company puts out excellent and poo poo comics. Just get 'em where you get 'em. Stay agnostic. Life's more enjoyable that way.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 23:19
|
|
|
Teenage Fansub posted:Can't we give these characters enough issues to become characters till we judge them? I haven't read Nightwing yet, but I'm guessing the new Huntress got maybe two pages? If we can rush to be mad about Lois and Clark not being eternal soulmates, I think we can judge p much anything!
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 23:26
|
|
|
Was Taters posted:If we can rush to be mad about Lois and Clark not being eternal soulmates, I think we can judge p much anything! Calling it now. The (new) Robin will be the worst Robin ever.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 23:31
|
|
|
Equeen posted:While I definitely agree that diversity is very important to comics, in Helena's case, I don't think DC actually made her black. She just seems to be olive skinned. This is a problem a lot of artists have with making non-white characters. The artist/penciler will drawer a character with typical caucasian features and then give then tan or brownish skin color. At least the artist in the Helena picture drew her with wavy hair.
|
|
#
?
May 28, 2014 23:46
|
|
|
While I don't agree with him, I understand DT's point. I'm also from Latin America and we also got most of our entertainment from American sources so before I knew and understood a little better the racial politics of your country it wasn't weird that every super-hero was white, 'cause they were gringos and gringos are white. Now I understand the necessity for diversity in media, specially in super-hero and comics in general, since a lot of kids start reading those at a young age and for them to see someone like them behave heroically must be such a huge thing. It's weird, I always thought I had no dog in this fight, because even if Jaime Reyes or Robbie Reyes or Kyle Rayner were of latin descent, they were American and of no relation to me. But then I find out that Old DC had a loving Argentinian super-group (Super-Malón) and get all exited. They are not even from my country, but just the fact that there are some south-americans running around the DC U was enough to get me hooked.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2014 01:14
|
|
|
There was a gifset on tumblr of a comics historian near tears recounting Peter Parker saying hi to a black student in passing in the sixties. It was heartwarming, kind of, and was a good argument for why diversity with heroes is needed.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2014 01:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 3, 2024 16:01 |
|
|
I also grew up in another country and even though I am white I never related to the comics I read as something where I thought the characters were like me. All the characters came across as "generic American" and I never really questioned it as a kid. I read Power Man and Iron Fist and even though the characters were of different race I focussed more on their powers then the colour of the skin. The fact that they were both American made my young mind think that they were pretty much interchangable except one was great at kung-fu and another could take bullets and keep on walking. The experience, I assume, gets different when you grow up in America and read about the characters. When there is a character who shares a background with you, you begin to identify with that character a lot more. Sidenote: sadly the only character that was South African was loving Maggot. I felt pissed off about that. Anyway, diversifying means that otherwise overlooked minorities get someone that is like them, that is hero too. Someone they can share an experience with. That is why we need comics to appeal to people outside of white, male, and American. We are seeing the trend towards that. I just wish that it was new characters moving towards that.
|
|
#
?
May 29, 2014 04:39
|
|