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Snacksmaniac posted:SCG has Conspiracy single preorders up now (or did a while ago). I think this has come up a few pages back and someone said it was fairly typical of any new PW until the market sees how the demand is for them. It is likely this will drop fairly significantly almost immediately after release.
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May 28, 2014 21:01
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Man, I wish people drafted at my local store. As it stands I think the owner is just going to run drafts for Conspiracy when that comes out, which just sounds like a disaster.
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May 28, 2014 21:04
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OssiansFolly posted:I think this has come up a few pages back and someone said it was fairly typical of any new PW until the market sees how the demand is for them. It is likely this will drop fairly significantly almost immediately after release. I think most planeswalkers/mythics actually start at $30/$40, tops. I should say they've started at around that in the past, since the window of what idiot nerds with money will pay keeps creeping to the right. Dack has been pushed/hyped and is also in a nonstandard set; Wizards says they're going to be printing Conspiracy in sufficient quantities, so anyone who expects it to be MMA-style scarcity is hopefully fooling themselves, but a lot of people might still be working on that assumption.
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May 28, 2014 21:05
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The Dack preorder price seems high for SCG standards even is what I was trying to point out.
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May 28, 2014 21:05
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The people are just hungry for Dack!
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May 28, 2014 21:13
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Where are these preorders? I want to see if I need to hoover up a playset of Council's Judgement at the price they offer.
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May 28, 2014 21:14
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What did LotV preorder for, again? Duck's basically only going to see play in vintage, so 60$ seems ambitious. That said, I think I might try to buy a couple foil Ducks and hold into them if I can.
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May 28, 2014 21:14
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JerryLee posted:I think most planeswalkers/mythics actually start at $30/$40, tops. I should say they've started at around that in the past, since the window of what idiot nerds with money will pay keeps creeping to the right. Yea thats the problem. Wizards said they were going to just keep printing this set as long as there was demand, but people are assuming that there won't be that much and it will end up being a smaller set. I think they are sadly mistaken and the demand for Dack won't match the hype, but who knows a stupid combo can be found and the price could be justified.
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May 28, 2014 21:15
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LordSaturn posted:Where are these preorders? I want to see if I need to hoover up a playset of Council's Judgement at the price they offer. Last I saw a playset was preselling for $75. Yeah.
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May 28, 2014 21:16
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odiv posted:Man, I wish people drafted at my local store. As it stands I think the owner is just going to run drafts for Conspiracy when that comes out, which just sounds like a disaster. I have the opposite problem, actually, where nobody at my LGS does anything but draft. Which will make conspiracy fun, at least, but man as a constructed player this is my literal hell. @Ossians: They already found a good combo for him, it goes Duck + your opponent's Mox. TheKingofSprings fucked around with this message at 21:19 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 21:17
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At least you are less likely to have to deal with obnoxious drafting errors. We're kind of thinking just order a box or two and do it with friends.
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May 28, 2014 21:19
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Angry Grimace posted:Last I saw a playset was preselling for $75. Yeah. Honestly, that's a pretty fair price. A playset of NM Vindicates will easily overtop that.
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May 28, 2014 21:23
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Yeah, for once I'm thinking I want to just get a box of Conspiracy to draft with buddies. Plenty of beer, no prizes or any poo poo like that, just draft and a couple of multiplayer rounds of banter and Conspiracy.
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May 28, 2014 21:23
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Lunsku posted:Yeah, for once I'm thinking I want to just get a box of Conspiracy to draft with buddies. Plenty of beer, no prizes or any poo poo like that, just draft and a couple of multiplayer rounds of banter and Conspiracy. I intend to do the same, claim back the cards at the end of the night and make an interesting 4 man cube for future fun!
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May 28, 2014 21:32
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On that note, what is a good site for buying booster boxes? There was a good deal on Massdrop for approximately 3 seconds before they sold out.
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May 28, 2014 21:36
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AlternateNu posted:So, hypothetical. Less than painlands.
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May 28, 2014 21:39
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Elyv posted:Less than painlands. Which is why the desire for fetch reprints is sort of funny. I can't imagine they would be terribly good in Standard. I'm honestly not quite certain why Wizards doesn't just invoke the old fashioned Extended rule (where duals were legal even though Revised wasn't) and make the Onslaught fetches legal in Modern, and then reprint them in MM2 or whatever supplemental product they choose.
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May 28, 2014 21:42
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I'm hoping when they come back there is another set of typed utility lands like Mistveil Plains and the like.
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May 28, 2014 21:43
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Angry Grimace posted:Which is why the desire for fetch reprints is sort of funny. I can't imagine they would be terribly good in Standard. I'm honestly not quite certain why Wizards doesn't just invoke the old fashioned Extended rule (where duals were legal even though Revised wasn't) and make the Onslaught fetches legal in Modern, and then reprint them in MM2 or whatever supplemental product they choose. Because that is confusing as all hell to newer players, and doesn't directly address the horrendous issues with circulation that the fetches have, unless MM2 has a MASSIVELY boosted print run compared to its predecessor.
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May 28, 2014 21:44
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Angry Grimace posted:Which is why the desire for fetch reprints is sort of funny. I can't imagine they would be terribly good in Standard. I'm honestly not quite certain why Wizards doesn't just invoke the old fashioned Extended rule (where duals were legal even though Revised wasn't) and make the Onslaught fetches legal in Modern, and then reprint them in MM2 or whatever supplemental product they choose. People want fetches in standard because that means it will be much, much cheaper to buy into modern. They're also serviceable duals for a standard more focused on two-color decks.
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May 28, 2014 21:45
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AlternateNu posted:So, hypothetical. No original duals would limit their use but legacy would always drive demand as long as there's the original 10.
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May 28, 2014 21:45
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SCG has Brago @ $3.99 but everyone on TCG has him at at least $8.00
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May 28, 2014 21:48
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DoctorOozy posted:I intend to do the same, claim back the cards at the end of the night and make an interesting 4 man cube for future fun! Also planning to do exactly this. I'm one of those filthy redrafters but Conspiracy just doesn't work with that system, with all the value tied up in like two cards and performance being tied to group dynamics and stuff. That and it'd be a shame to have all these cool draft-altering cards sit unused forever after rather than show up in a cube where they belong.
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May 28, 2014 22:07
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Madmarker posted:Because that is confusing as all hell to newer players, and doesn't directly address the horrendous issues with circulation that the fetches have, unless MM2 has a MASSIVELY boosted print run compared to its predecessor. There could be other supplemental products that they could go in, though - Conspiracy-type products, for example. I guess I just think they're underwhelming if the only option you can fetch is straight up basics. For the record, I also don't think legalizing the ONS fetches in Modern is "confusing as all hell to newer players," unless these newer players are too dumb to play Magic. That isn't a very difficult to grasp stipulation. Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 22:19 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 22:16
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Angry Grimace posted:There could be other supplemental products that they could go in, though - Conspiracy-type products, for example. I guess I just think they're underwhelming if the only option you can fetch is straight up basics. Were you playing in Zendikar Standard? They weren't bone-crushing, but they have a lot of utility for filling your graveyard or shuffling your deck.
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May 28, 2014 22:23
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AATREK CURES KIDS posted:Right, but Genghis didn't reanimate undead armies, he would present his enemies with the ultimatum "join me or fight me." "At the beginning of combat target creature. If NotKhan attacks this turn and is not blocked by target creature gain control of creature." Or something like that.
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May 28, 2014 22:24
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Angry Grimace posted:For the record, I also don't think legalizing the ONS fetches in Modern is "confusing as all hell to newer players," unless these newer players are too dumb to play Magic. That isn't a very difficult to grasp stipulation. It's completely arbitrary and artificial, and would solve no problems and exacerbate existing ones.
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May 28, 2014 22:25
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LordSaturn posted:Were you playing in Zendikar Standard? They weren't bone-crushing, but they have a lot of utility for filling your graveyard or shuffling your deck. Also they were good for protecting your access to green mana from Spreading Seas. They could hit your triland but you could sit on Verdant until you dropped borderland ranger and then it was basically impossible to color-deny the jund player.
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May 28, 2014 22:26
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Angry Grimace posted:There could be other supplemental products that they could go in, though - Conspiracy-type products, for example. I guess I just think they're underwhelming if the only option you can fetch is straight up basics. Well yes, just fetching up basics wouldn't make them automatic inclusions (although even basic-only Legacy decks do run fetches, for shuffling purposes), but the fact that they CAN fetch up duals is what makes them so versatile. If they only fetched basics, a Misty Rainforest is either blue or green mana. As they are, a Misty can represent any colour of mana, by fetching the appropriate dual. And legalizing the ONS fetches would be very confusing. Modern's much more easily defined as "any card that's printed in the new border in an actual set". Changing that to "any card that's printed in the new border in an actual set, PLUS those five cards that haven't" can lead to confusion, such as "Why those five and not Stifle or Sliver Overlord?". Making Modern start from ONS rather than 8th Ed does have merit though, but still not the most graspable thing to a newer player. EDIT: OFS covered my point about ONS in brief. Serperoth fucked around with this message at 22:29 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 22:27
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What purpose would it serve to put the ONS fetches in modern without printing them in standard? They're perfectly fine for standard on their own, and are great if you pair them with a mechanic that likes them, like they did with landfall.
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May 28, 2014 22:29
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They've outright said there isn't a lot of design space in dual lands, so fetches helps with that problem AND making Modern land bases not require selling a kidney. (and a tiny bit of help to legacy)
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May 28, 2014 22:30
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Serperoth posted:Modern's much more easily defined as "any card that's printed in the new border in an actual set". If you're using those terms, Modern is "any card that's been printed in the new border in an actual set, but exculding unhinged or conspiracy, and including cards from TSP block that don't have the modern border. Also, not cards in the ban list"
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May 28, 2014 22:35
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Serperoth posted:Well yes, just fetching up basics wouldn't make them automatic inclusions (although even basic-only Legacy decks do run fetches, for shuffling purposes), but the fact that they CAN fetch up duals is what makes them so versatile. If they only fetched basics, a Misty Rainforest is either blue or green mana. As they are, a Misty can represent any colour of mana, by fetching the appropriate dual. In my experience the line for confusing new players is between "any card that's printed in the new border" and "any card that's printed in the new border in an actual set". People already get annoyed when they can't use, say, the Orcish Lumberjack they got from a duel deck in their modern deck, even though it clearly has the modern card frame. Once they get past that, an "oh and also these five cards" clause is easy. Of course, a much easier solution is to just bring them back to Standard.
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May 28, 2014 22:37
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Modern legality is easy if you get what "was printed in core or block set since 8th edition" means. Don't screw with that.
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May 28, 2014 22:46
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Lottery of Babylon posted:In my experience the line for confusing new players is between "any card that's printed in the new border" and "any card that's printed in the new border in an actual set". I know that's an issue, it's kind of unavoidable, I was mostly making a point about how the frame is the most consistent thing about Modern (excepting the timeshifted cards, few of which see play), and adding just five very commonly-played cards in it would be confusing. Really now, a Standard reprint is pretty much guaranteed (even if it may not come soon, it's been repeatedly said they want to do it), so changing the rules over something like that is pointless.
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May 28, 2014 22:46
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Legalize the ONS fetches and then reprint them in a supplemental product, problem solved.
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May 28, 2014 22:50
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Print the fetches instead of basic lands, tarmogoyfs and cryptic commands instead of ads, gently caress the primary, secondary, and tertiary markets, let everything burn to cinders. 
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May 28, 2014 22:56
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Dr. Stab posted:If you're using those terms, Modern is "any card that's been printed in the new border in an actual set, but exculding unhinged or conspiracy, and including cards from TSP block that don't have the modern border. Also, not cards in the ban list" All I'm hearing is that Lord of Atlantis is modern legal with the kicking rad 7th edition art 
Count Bleck fucked around with this message at 23:07 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 23:03
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Serperoth posted:Well yes, just fetching up basics wouldn't make them automatic inclusions (although even basic-only Legacy decks do run fetches, for shuffling purposes), but the fact that they CAN fetch up duals is what makes them so versatile. If they only fetched basics, a Misty Rainforest is either blue or green mana. As they are, a Misty can represent any colour of mana, by fetching the appropriate dual. Except that's not even the rule - its any card in the modern frame that was actually in a set beyond 8th Edition, not including the large swathes of supplemental products and nothing that's on the ban list. Its not difficult for anyone unless they are insanely dumb, particularly because ONS fetches are far too expensive for that situation to actually come up. The ban list is like 5 times longer than the number of cards they'd have to legalize. Besides, ONS was the last block before Modern legality, so its not like they're stretching it all that much. It's far, far more likely in my estimation that a newbie would attempt to play this card: Angry Grimace fucked around with this message at 23:10 on May 28, 2014 |
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May 28, 2014 23:05
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That is ALSO not the rule. The rule is a specific list of sets + a ban list. The frame is just an easy way to think about it.
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May 28, 2014 23:11
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