|
He's not wrong. Most of the revivalist British cocktails were brought there from roaring 20s bartenders fleeing prohibition. Just like many of the extant copies of our original Latin texts were found in British monasteries. They don't become British by letting them hold it for a minute.
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 03:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 00:57 |
|
|
Yep, "cocktails" are almost entirely an invention of the US.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 04:11
|
|
|
Come on guys. Just off the top of my head, the Mojito, (the very first ever documented cocktail) Negroni, Caipirinha, Pisco Sour and the Daquiri. Sure, if you want to argue that there were many more classics invented by Americans outside of America, then I'll give you that but sorry, drinks invented at Harry's New York Bar in Paris weren't actually invented in New York. The Origin of those cocktails is absoloutely outside of America and if cocktails were so exclusively an American pastime, then no one would've been drinking these creations abroad and popularizing them enough to allow them to become classics in the first place.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 04:40
|
|
|
I think what Choom was getting at was the idea of the cocktail, juicing and hotrodding the carefully constructed distillates that may have taken generations to produce in all their finery and then slapping them on ice and getting ripshit drunk on them is a fundamentally American idea.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 04:50
|
|
|
Daiquiri is credited as being invented by an American while he was in Cuba during the war, as was the Pisco Sour, sooooooo..... It's a formula if not invented in America, widely and made wildly popular by Americans. Totally, other people made them other places but between Wondrich's research/books and America Walks Into A Bar I think historically it's justified.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 04:58
|
|
|
Vegetable Melange posted:I think what Choom was getting at was the idea of the cocktail, juicing and hotrodding the carefully constructed distillates that may have taken generations to produce in all their finery and then slapping them on ice and getting ripshit drunk on them is a fundamentally American idea. Paul Claudel posted:A cocktail is to a glass of wine as rape is to love. That's the kind of European sentiment that caused the cocktail to be born in America. I do have to say though that wine snobs and people who only drink their whiskey a certain way can go pound sand. Yes yes decades of experience and mellowing in one rare bottle. Where is the respect for the millions of years of evolution and accumulated agricultural effort in a field ripened strawberry? A monkey with a bottle of Titos and a basket of fresh fruit will decimate your finest coktaileiere with a bottle of Loius XIII, a soda gun and some dirty ice. In the end the cocktail is about loving and respecting the things that go into the drink every bit as much as the hoity toity liquor, and while that's no longer an American sentiment at one time it certainly was. raton fucked around with this message at 10:44 on May 30, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 10:37
|
|
|
A cocktail is to a glass of wine as rape is to love. What the poo poo is a Jäger Bomb in this scenario?
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 10:49
|
|
|
MAKE NO BABBYS posted:Daiquiri is credited as being invented by an American while he was in Cuba during the war, as was the Pisco Sour, sooooooo..... It's a formula if not invented in America, widely and made wildly popular by Americans. Totally, other people made them other places but between Wondrich's research/books and America Walks Into A Bar I think historically it's justified. The Daiquiri was invented by Jennings Cox in the 1890s in Santiago, Cuba, then popularized by Constantino at La Florida years later. And I meant the mentality as much as the cocktail as a whole. The concept is American through and through.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 11:06
|
|
|
Where does the gin and tonic fit in all this? You could call that British, no?
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 11:22
|
|
|
Sorry to bust in on this debate but I don't supposed there is anyone in this thread around the Sydney CBD or inner west that knows a place that is hiring? I've got nearly 2 years experience and a dazzling smile, what more can one want.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 11:48
|
|
|
navyjack posted:A cocktail is to a glass of wine as rape is to love. Jodie Foster on the pinball machine as a packed theatre watches
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 12:01
|
|
|
Cantorsdust posted:Where does the gin and tonic fit in all this? You could call that British, no? That's a highball, not a cocktail.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 15:43
|
|
|
Choom Gangster posted:The Daiquiri was invented by Jennings Cox in the 1890s in Santiago, Cuba, then popularized by Constantino at La Florida years later. Yeah, Jennings Cox was an American in Cuba for a stay during the Spanish-American war, as I said above.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 15:47
|
|
|
navyjack posted:A cocktail is to a glass of wine as rape is to love.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 16:51
|
|
|
MAKE NO BABBYS posted:Yeah, Jennings Cox was an American in Cuba for a stay during the Spanish-American war, as I said above. I was just elaborating.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 17:13
|
|
|
Someone telling me they only drink X fine wine or Y fancy liquor is viewed as warily as someone who tells me they only have eggs benedict and brioche for breakfast
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 17:22
|
|
|
I worked with this total beer snob who tut-tutted me whenever he saw me drink a High Life. "Don't you know that's brewed with adjuncts? That's macro pisswater." Well, yeah dude, but it's 87° out, and I don't need a double IPA or a barleywine when I mow the lawn, thanks.
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 17:25
|
|
|
navyjack posted:A cocktail is to a glass of wine as rape is to love. a loving annoyance during a white-out
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 17:27
|
|
|
navyjack posted:A cocktail is to a glass of wine as rape is to love. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6QnlUL2nVII&t=40s 40s
|
|
#
?
May 30, 2014 19:30
|
|
|
Choom Gangster posted:I was just elaborating. Me too! 
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2014 00:17
|
|
|
Choom Gangster posted:There aren't many cocktails of origin outside of the US historically, it's our tradition. Sorry guys, I was nitpicking. This was the original quote that I had an issue with. There are plenty of cocktails of origin outside of the US. Popularized and glamorized by the US? Sure, but claiming historically that that there aren't many that originated outside of the states is a pretty solid stretch. Not only that but claiming that an American appropriating an age old local drink while in another country suddenly makes it an exclusively American tradtion is also a little much. Choom, I get your point, let's just say it's been a long few weeks and the way you worded it could've been better and it set off my  alarm.Anyway, enough semantics, anyone got an idea what could've kept me up shaking all night last night, unable to sleep? I had a half (ok 3/4) of a bottle of Chilean Cab Sauv about an hour or two before I settled down. I've heard of sulphites in wines causing trouble for people with allergies, but I've never had any real problem before with reds. Anyone here allergic to sulphites and have a similar kind of reaction?
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2014 00:52
|
|
|
Just so you know allergies aren't a constant thing for everyone, they can flare up or dissipate more or less at random or due to environmental factors. Sometimes allergies develop and then don't go away. It's an immune system thing.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2014 00:59
|
|
|
Usually what keeps me up shaking is going to bed sober
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2014 01:08
|
|
|
Sulfite allergies are pretty bunk, nearly everything has them in it... OJ, dried fruits, brassicaceae, plants in the Lily family, etc etc etc. Two oz of dried apricots have something like 10x the sulfites of a glass of wine. All wine has sulfites, some just don't have additional sulfites added. Less than one half of one percent of people have severe sulfite allergies, so if you are already a serious asthmatic, you are in the risk group. Sulfite allergies are like the "gluten intolerance" of the beverage world.
|
|
#
?
May 31, 2014 02:34
|
|
|
MAKE NO BABBYS posted:That's a highball, not a cocktail. A highball is whiskey/bourbon and ginger isn't it?
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2014 06:26
|
|
|
leica posted:A highball is whiskey/bourbon and ginger isn't it? I always thought a highball was a liquor with one mixer, typically a soda of some sort.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2014 08:36
|
|
|
Shooting Blanks posted:I always thought a highball was a liquor with one mixer, typically a soda of some sort. Highball is a type of drink built in a glass over ice with a portion of spirit and a larger portion of non-alcoholic mixer. A cocktail is a drink mixed of spirit(s,) sugar, bitters, water (ice melt.)
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2014 09:40
|
|
|
What's a Schlitz on the rocks with a twist of lemon?
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2014 16:16
|
|
|
An old man drink.
|
|
#
?
Jun 1, 2014 20:24
|
|
|
A highball is a glass 
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 05:09
|
|
|
Fizz glass= 12 oz Highball = 14 Collins = 16
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 05:30
|
|
|
nrr posted:A highball is a glass
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 06:02
|
|
|
nrr posted:A highball is a glass You mean a size and type of glassware might be referred to by the same name as the type of drink it's intended to hold?! WHY I NEVER!!!! E: edited to add that the IBA, Wikipedia, Wondrich, DeGroff, and most cocktail historians agree with me. It's one of the lesser punches/offshoots of punches, along with Collins/fizzes/cobbler/daisies/sours. Wondrich specifically remarks that the Highball was the second most popular drink in the US from ~1858-1960s, just below Sours (most popularly, whiskey sour.) MAKE NO BABBYS fucked around with this message at 07:57 on Jun 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 07:30
|
|
|
MAKE NO BABBYS posted:You mean a size and type of glassware might be referred to by the same name as the type of drink it's intended to hold?! WHY I NEVER!!!! ...are you telling me that an Old-Fashioned glass isn't simply called that because they've been made for a long time?
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 07:32
|
|
|
MAKE NO BABBYS posted:You mean a size and type of glassware might be referred to by the same name as the type of drink it's intended to hold?! WHY I NEVER!!!! Woah.  You're right. I'm terribly sorry, I stand corrected. Now my good sir would you be so kind as to pour me a glass of pint? And then to show you I'm a good sport, I'll have two ounces of shot. One for each of us!
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 07:43
|
|
|
I love loving with my Japanese friends, encouraging them to order highballs when I'm behind the stick and serving them a vodka soda. Laughs all around.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 08:51
|
|
|
Hahaha! That's totally a prank I would pull. I always try to emphasize that even a highball with bourbon is going to be reaaaaaaallllllly different for the Japanese.
MAKE NO BABBYS fucked around with this message at 10:12 on Jun 2, 2014 |
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 09:06
|
|
|
It's called a highball because if your ball sack can reach the bottom of the glass your balls are adequate in height.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 09:55
|
|
|
This conversation firmly reminds me why I always enjoyed working really high volume as opposed to cocktails. I'm probably in the minority here on that one, though.
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 14:22
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 00:57 |
|
|
Volume is how you get paid. I've done both extreme ends of the 'volume - craft cocktail' spectrum, and it's actually ruined going to nice cocktail places for me, I hate it that much. I hate the pretentiousness of the "foodies", I hate the smugness of the "mixologists", and I hate the endless bar lines. You know what I've grown to love? Pouring 2 goose&pineapple with 2 henny&redbull into plastic cups, charging $50 for the round for the hundredth times while I'm blinded by strobe lights and getting blasted endlessly by the same ten songs. If I'm gonna give up my saturday nights/sunday mornings, I'm going to do it for a pile of filthy money. I always thought I'd want to get out of the club game, and since I'm on the wrong side of 30 I'm a dinosaur in this industry, but if you're gonna get behind the wood don't you want as much money as possible? I've been lured away a few times by the promise of a better life and a steady salary to run some hoity-toity golf course or fine dining, but that all ends up the same: managing a bunch of useless fucks who probably make more money than you and standing around listening to the senior partners yammer on while you polish a tin and wish you were back in the weeds. The biggest problem I've ever had at the club is some guy reaching across to grab a bottle or a girltender, and we have people to break their arms for that so all I do is push the button and point. People complain about a drink price after they waited ten minutes for it? Do you want it or not buddy, cause the guy behind you will be thrilled to buy it. I can't listen to one more guy wearing a scarf indoors try to debate me about hybrid strains of juniper berries and what size I should be hand-shaving my ice into. I don't know how those guys (you guys?) do it, but the nicest 2 places around here are staffed by people who do it for the "status" because they are making less than my barback. I guess it's just different worlds and your own personal tolerance equation of x bullshit for y dollars, but buddy you're wearing a loving cummerbund to work. Off my hipster tangent, the thing that will gently caress you up faster than anything in a club gig is the combination of young girls and coke. Get your head on straight because you'll end up in jail faster than you ever thought possible, I've seen it happen to total strangers and a guy I've known all my life, it happens amazingly fast. I love real bars and real bartenders, I get along fine with most fake bartenders unless I have to work with them. I hate management and customers, but hey who doesn't? I wish I could go back in time 6ish years ago before we got hit with this prohibition renaissance because that was pretty fun and novel at the time. You guys know where I stand, maybe someone who feels equally as strongly and has tons of passion for their craft cocktail scene can make a rebuttal? We just need to find an old timer from a hotel bar to moderate the debate!
|
|
#
?
Jun 2, 2014 16:48
|
|