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I just had a thought. I hope Sanya is okay after that glimpse we got of him fighting Denarians at an exploded nuclear reactor in Iran 
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May 29, 2014 21:48
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Wade Wilson posted:I just had a thought. I hope Sanya is okay after that glimpse we got of him fighting Denarians at an exploded nuclear reactor in Iran I think it's safe to assume that he beat their poo poo in. He was fighting the B team and they didn't have their leader so I doubt that it was more than he could handle
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May 29, 2014 23:53
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Either way, we won't find out until 5 years from now.
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May 30, 2014 00:04
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FordPRefectLL posted:Either way, we won't find out until 5 years from now. Possibly sooner the Knights show up for non Denarian fights sometimes
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May 30, 2014 00:11
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why oh WHY posted:I think it's safe to assume that he beat their poo poo in. He was fighting the B team and they didn't have their leader so I doubt that it was more than he could handle Who was seen in Iran again? I can't remember and my brother has the book now. I ask to confirm that Thorned Namshiel is still MIA right? But since Tessa is here we can probably rule out her involvement with Nemesis/Thorned/the attack on Arctis Tor.
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May 30, 2014 00:24
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Fried Chicken posted:Harry has such a strong anti-authority streak he remains anti-authority even when he has become the authority. That reminds me of Vimes.
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May 30, 2014 00:31
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Just finished it. First impressions before reading this thread were that I loved it, best Dresden Files in a long time. The stakes are higher and the twists are important, and yet it's still a classic heist story. I also liked that each character has their own voice back, something that I think is a bit lacking in Cold Days. After reading the past few pages, I'm having second thoughts. I enjoyed it, for sure, but there's issues, especially about Hannah. Part of me thinks that it's because Harry is a pigheaded oaf, and the story's from his perspective. Or it's just lovely, reductive characterization. Even if the former is true, I don't think that makes it right.
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May 30, 2014 00:38
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I thought the earring joke at the start was pretty hackneyed and out of date, but Butcher has never really been very nuanced dealing with homosexuality. He does try though but ends up coming across as pretty awkward. But overall I enjoyed the book. Nice to sort of have a business as usual book after the Changes/Ghost Story/Cold Days arc.
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May 30, 2014 01:04
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Goodman Grey + the title = haha
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May 30, 2014 01:31
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isk posted:After reading the past few pages, I'm having second thoughts. I enjoyed it, for sure, but there's issues, especially about Hannah. Part of me thinks that it's because Harry is a pigheaded oaf, and the story's from his perspective. Or it's just lovely, reductive characterization. Even if the former is true, I don't think that makes it right. I have a lot of thoughts about Hannah, but the short version is that I can see pretty solid reasons for every choice made about her characterization, but the end result was still, in spite of those solid reasons, unfortunate. Not unforgivable, just, you know, could have been better. On the other hand, she represents the first time a woman has actually voiced an objection to all the leering in the series that I can think of. I'm honestly a little more dismayed, after some thought, that Lasciel, who was built up as a subtle temptress and who (through Lash) presented herself as an eminently sensible being, was presented here as RAR I WILL SMASH YOU BECAUSE YOU REJECTED ME.
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May 30, 2014 03:12
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Lash was a shadow, not Lasciel herself. Additionally, she was actively trying to seduce Harry at first and, at the end, was actually seduced by Harry. Also, she's a temptress and seducer older than humanity and in all of her countless eons of life Harry Blackstone Copperfile Dresden is the first person who ever turned her down. I can understand her being a little pissed off.
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May 30, 2014 03:30
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So I just got back from Jim Butcher's signing in Portland. I recorded his Q&A if anyone wants to give a listen. Here is a link to download it. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwdBBtfoAm6vWEdyU2h2UkZva0U/edit?usp=sharing
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May 30, 2014 05:30
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I had low expectations going in, because my friends were really down on this book, but I give it a solid B. All the important points (Murphy, Dresden's creepy lusting) have already been covered.Wolpertinger posted:There's plenty of mysteries left, and now two or three new ones. Maybe this already got talked about in old threads when the first few chapters were posted, by my first thought was... King Arthur  The being in the crystal is a British-accented person stuck in stasis who seems to have had an even tougher life than Harry, based on his long-suffering tone of voice. He's being housed on an island with ties to the original Merlin. Authurian legend says that, after the fall of Camelot, the destruction of the knights of the round table due to betrayal, infighting, and loss, King Arthur is critically wounded in battle and is taken away to 'Avalon', an island across the sea, where he rests in an eternal sleep, healing, until such time as his people need him once more. Rose Spirit posted:Am I the only one who feels like Harry didn't actually kill Hannah/Lasciel? All the book says is "And Hannah Ascher and Lasciel were gone." Granted, hundreds of tons of molten rock dropping on her head, but those supernatural beings can be pretty nimble and we already know she's at least somewhat resistant to fire. I suspect that Hannah will totally be back. She's basically Harry if he made all the wrong decisions. Never grew up and learned to accept the White Council. Didn't reject the Coin. Concentrated all of her magical ability on emotion-fueld fire, rather than diversifying. She just needs to make two or three more 'bad deals' (or a few years training with the Coin) and she'll be back to harass Harry again. Bobulus fucked around with this message at 05:52 on May 30, 2014 |
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May 30, 2014 05:49
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Just finished, very tired. Skin Game was the best book since Changes at least despite the crappy title. Thoughts: - Crap, I have to do a reread pretty immediately to decipher Harry and Goodman Grey's code. - Allowing Michael to re-retire on his own terms was a great idea and putting Uriel's angelic nature in danger in order for it to happen kept the move from feeling too cheap. Very impressive bit of plotting there. - I'm a cold bastard regarding Maggie in that I think a middle aged man writing from the perspective of a little girl will be all kinds of terrible and her presence alone could either slow things down or turn into a constant hostage situation motif. That said Maggie was pitch perfect  in every scene.- I liked Hannah as a character and neither her slight over sexualized depiction nor her rape defense background bothered me much. Well yes, I am an over-privileged white male. Why do you ask? - Lasciel/Ascher's reveal and battle was way to heavily compressed leading to her sounding like a silly comic book villain in order to cram all of her narrative points into such a small window. I fully expect both character's to have survived and to become main antagonists in future Denarian books. - Hades was cool and I'm certainly looking forward to the appearance of more Norse and Greek deities. - Butters the Jedi Knight of the Cross fending off the wrath of man's evil personified was the dumbest, nerdiest, most fan service bullshit to ever come out of any of the Dresden books and I'm sort of okay with that. - Mac makes good beer, we get it. Just stop.
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May 30, 2014 05:51
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Bobulus posted:I suspect that Hannah will totally be back. She's basically Harry if he made all the wrong decisions. Never grew up and learned to accept the White Council. Didn't reject the Coin. Concentrated all of her magical ability on emotion-fueld fire, rather than diversifying. She just needs to make two or three more 'bad deals' (or a few years training with the Coin) and she'll be back to harass Harry again. Well, let's be fair here. Harry only survived the Council because his grandfather the goddamned Council Blackstaff vouched for him and agreed to go under the Doom of Damocles for him. Without that, he would have been executed, and he killed a straight up demon-summoning black wizard in self-defense. I'm pretty sure Ascher never would have gotten a chance to "accept the White Council", she'd have gotten straight up executed.
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May 30, 2014 06:31
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You know... lost in the whole Ascher business.... During the early stages of the book, I genuinely hoped Harry had made a friend on Nico's team and I was hoping that there's be a multi book arc about Dresden befriending and reforming a warlock and maybe planting the seeds of a Warlocks Anonymous or something.
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May 30, 2014 06:39
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Xtanstic posted:You know... lost in the whole Ascher business.... During the early stages of the book, I genuinely hoped Harry had made a friend on Nico's team and I was hoping that there's be a multi book arc about Dresden befriending and reforming a warlock and maybe planting the seeds of a Warlocks Anonymous or something. This plotline already happened except for the very last part.
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May 30, 2014 06:41
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FordPRefectLL posted:This plotline already happened except for the very last part. The Paranet may qualify. As a seed, at the least.
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May 30, 2014 06:45
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Something I just thought of. Butters is pretty much living proof that the secret to being a good wizard is preparation - he's got an extremely minor amount of power with a shitload of knowledge to back it up. Now he's given Bob access to the internet, so why the gently caress haven't they given him strict instructions on what types of info he can give them and used him to power up the Paranet into a actual force to be feared.
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May 30, 2014 07:27
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I'm actually surprised at the level of distaste for the Hannah back story. It's not anywhere near the most nuanced take on the subject but reading it wasn't nearly as awkward as that Titania conversation on gay love in Cold Days. Then again I can see how it would strike a nerve after 2 books of moderately creepy winter knight sex monologuing. I don't think Butcher means anything deeper by the casual misogyny, but the Michael/Uriel scenes did feel like they were preaching his world view a little heavy.
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May 30, 2014 07:46
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Tornhelm posted:Something I just thought of. All the really cool stuff Butters does with his Batman gear is really reliant on Bob. Bob powers his skateboard, animates his whips, turns his coat into a parachute, and basically serves as the Jarvis to his Iron Man. Bob's advice couldn't turn the Paranet into magical Batmans unless they all had an equally capable spirit buddy to serve as their battery/controller. And even if you disregard that, there's a problem with giving all those nearly anonymous and unknown Paranetters such capabilities. You could do an awful lot of unsavory poo poo with memory gas and windwalking potions and the like, if they could even make it without Bob's direct help. The best use of Bob as far as the Paranet is concerned is almost certainly going to be analyzing the information they manage to collect and alerting them as to what they should be on the lookout for, which is something he does already by serving as their all-purpose magical advisor.
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May 30, 2014 08:02
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docbeard posted:
I dunno man, regarding the character in that spoiler, didn't her shadow in Harry's head end up setting him on fire or something via illusion just to prove she COULD gently caress with him if she wanted to, but preferred to go the nicer route? She's a fallen angel, she's ready to torture the poo poo out of a human host to get what she wants, she is not a nice being. Her going a bit bonkers cause not only did Harry go "NOPE, EVERY TRAIN FROM NOPEVILLE, LEAVING NOW" when it came to claiming her coin, he also rejected her as a being, and ended up messing up her shadow in his head by making it regret what it had done. I mean, he got a fallen angel's mini me to sacrifice itself so he wouldn't die. ALL THAT is way more than just petty rejection, he got under her skin (somewhat literally) and ended up being a bald faced proclamation of "THIS COULD BE YOU. YOU COULD BE A GOOD PERSON. YOU JUST SUCK." by having a clone of her in his head turn out to be a nice person, and that alone should be more than enough to light the fuse on an already pissed off fallen. Just my take on the situation though.
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May 30, 2014 08:36
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She didn't set him on fire, she put the illusion of the room being on fire, with him feeling the sensation of it to make the point that if she wanted him dead, it would be as easy as making him not see an incoming car. on reflection, I'm a little annoyed at the lack of focus on Harry's new daughter. I'd really like to see a heavy focus on both his kids in the next book.
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May 30, 2014 09:22
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Peace Talks obviously refers to Harry trying to defuse the sibling rivalry between them. It's a domestic book.
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May 30, 2014 09:44
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Masonity posted:Peace Talks obviously refers to Harry trying to defuse the sibling rivalry between them. It's a domestic book. No lie, I'd kind of enjoy a book where everything wasn't loving exploding at all times, just to see how it would be handled.
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May 30, 2014 09:47
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Little Witch on the Prairie? ..er..on the island that drives people insane in the middle of the great lakes? This series needs some more short stories at least. Especially from the perspective of characters who can't wave their hands to rip open holes in reality and deflect bullets ,and who can't get back up from demons, angels, goblins, faeries, magic dogs and Santa Claus. Ghetto Prince fucked around with this message at 12:20 on May 30, 2014 |
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May 30, 2014 12:12
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Masonity posted:Peace Talks obviously refers to Harry trying to defuse the sibling rivalry between them. It's a domestic book. Between the White Council and the Fomor, between Winter and Summer, between the Dresden girls, between Molly and her family, just for starters. There could be a lot of discussion going on, and hey, we might see Ivy again too. Incidentally which audiobook has James Marsters go 'holy poo poo' while reading a scene out?
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May 30, 2014 14:18
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Illuyankas posted:Incidentally which audiobook has James Marsters go 'holy poo poo' while reading a scene out? Changes
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May 30, 2014 14:27
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Looking forward to Peace Talks so we can finally get some White Council reactions to Harry's death, resurrection and en-Wintering.
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May 30, 2014 14:27
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I'm so ready for Harry to pull a "The Boys are Back in Town" on the Fomor.
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May 30, 2014 14:31
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KellHound posted:So I just got back from Jim Butcher's signing in Portland. I recorded his Q&A if anyone wants to give a listen. Here is a link to download it. That was pretty funny. He even makes fun of himself for not knowing there's no parking lot around Wrigley
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May 30, 2014 14:47
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KellHound posted:So I just got back from Jim Butcher's signing in Portland. I recorded his Q&A if anyone wants to give a listen. Here is a link to download it. Can anyone make out either question that gets asked when he says "the paranetters lost"? Particularly the long question at about 24 minutes? Also wedding proposal at a Q&A? Congrats to them
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May 30, 2014 15:13
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Fried Chicken posted:Changes Thanks! I got the series on audiobook to listen to at work (literally the day before I got laid off, hooray) and I'm only at Summer Knight and it's really enjoyable so far, so that's cool.
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May 30, 2014 15:28
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Xtanstic posted:You know... lost in the whole Ascher business.... During the early stages of the book, I genuinely hoped Harry had made a friend on Nico's team and I was hoping that there's be a multi book arc about Dresden befriending and reforming a warlock and maybe planting the seeds of a Warlocks Anonymous or something. Id be more then happy with Her surviving, coming back for another go and Butters appealing to her to give up the coin. And she gives it up because of the points being raised in this thread, that Lasciel has been twisting her justifiably sensitive issues, fuelling her hatred of the council and pushing her triggers. Ascher should have had enough sense to realise former-warlock Dresden is not the one you preach at. More importantly, I'd be nice to have another Nicklehead realise they are being hosed with, her giving up the coin would be the middle finger to the Denerians if anything else. Good book, i enjoyed it. I'm not getting the same level of vibes as some of you are about Ash, and i've been accused of being overly sensitive (by assholes who in the same breath call me a "vaginal secretion."  ) on such topics in the past. Will agree that as far as motivations go, theres no need for it when your writing fiction and if you do use such topics, Empathise with the topic in question, really, really empathise. No matter what the subject is. But hey, White, Male, all my compass has to go by is my own Empathy. And now, the agonising wait begins. 
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May 30, 2014 15:32
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I dunno, i thought the whole point about the Ascher business was to show how bureaucratically evil the White Council is. I mean they sentence a girl to death for defending herself against sexual assault (something which is sadly *quite* common in modern society) and then they express surprise at how they suddenly have a bunch of sorcerers running around. It's a theme that's been well established in previous books, sure, but we haven't seen the White Council since Changes which was several *years* ago both in-universe and in real life. It may be an indication that the next book is going to deal with them a lot more too.
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May 30, 2014 16:04
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God i hope so, gently caress the white council and the high horse they rode in on. I'll gleefully read about it burning and considering our protagonist...  computer parts posted:(something which is sadly *quite* common in modern society) Thats the bit that struck me in a "Well thats a nod towards a depressingly real issue. " way.E: VVV I can see that being a thing yeah. Alienating future potentials, causing them to cause an increasing level of instability as the council has to put out the fires their own views cause. The rules of magic are one thing, but "THE ANSWER IS DEATH!" to every crime is certainly a questionable thing. Thyrork fucked around with this message at 16:37 on May 30, 2014 |
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May 30, 2014 16:21
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computer parts posted:I dunno, i thought the whole point about the Ascher business was to show how bureaucratically evil the White Council is. I mean they sentence a girl to death for defending herself against sexual assault (something which is sadly *quite* common in modern society) and then they express surprise at how they suddenly have a bunch of sorcerers running around. I dunno, I see it as the Black Council has so corrupted the White Council (Peabody) I think they are purposefully manipulating the White Council into alienating Warlocks and forcing them to work with those outside the bounds of the White Council purview. See: Black Council I also see the next book dealing with the White Council and the corruption of the Black Council possibly leading to a Wizard Civil War.
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May 30, 2014 16:31
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computer parts posted:I dunno, i thought the whole point about the Ascher business was to show how bureaucratically evil the White Council is. I mean they sentence a girl to death for defending herself against sexual assault (something which is sadly *quite* common in modern society) and then they express surprise at how they suddenly have a bunch of sorcerers running around. The books and Harry himself don't really frame the White Council as evil, they are just grossly pragmatic when it comes to trying to prevent the world from going to poo poo and the realize the limits of their power. The war with the Red Court, illustrated pretty well that he only reason the council or humans haven't been wiped out, is because they all toe the line. Past books also showed us how much using magic to hurt or kill people warps the mind of the user but they also tell us stories of redemption with Harry and Molly. Dam you Butcher and your complicated characters and situations, you won't even let me hate the bad guys. edit: The White Council is a lot like Mab the more I think about it.
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May 30, 2014 16:37
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Winter's pragmatism is a heck of alot more justified considering what they face. The Council's kills children because they have the power to save, and have indeed saved, themselves all while breaking rules they never knew existed. There are better ways, the council are just too blind to see it. In the Dresdenverse, we know that magic will atrophy if left unused, Charity. Hang the doom over the heads of children if you must, tell them to forsake their powers or face death, but straight up trying to kill them isn't morally ambiguous no matter how you spin it, it's cruelty at best and remorseless murder at worse. Thyrork fucked around with this message at 16:47 on May 30, 2014 |
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May 30, 2014 16:43
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What book was it where Harry argues with the Merlin about this? It was right after he did the Zombie Dinosaur stuff, IIRC. The argument was never resolved, but the Merlin did acknowledge that if the White Council had the resources they'd be doing more to find and train people that had talent and said something along the lines of only being able to react to people that have taken things too far.
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May 30, 2014 17:18
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