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AlternateNu posted:Yup. They're even colored differently. they haven't been worth playing in years, it's just always better to do an effect that can win you a game than to have an extra point of power or whatever
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May 30, 2014 13:54
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Kurtofan posted:Do they have vanilla creatures in Yugioh? Everytime I see a yugioh card, it's a card with thousands of words.
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May 30, 2014 13:57
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Froghammer posted:From what I understand no one ever plays them, even the ones that are stupidly big, unless some other card has some interaction with that card specifically. I was under the impression that in the last 5 years or so, there was actually a top tier Blue-Eyes and/or a top-tier Dark Magician deck at some point, purely due to the amount of archytypal support those cards get.
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May 30, 2014 14:04
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Can we change the topic back to Magic? Here I will start us off...Rare Redrafting 
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May 30, 2014 14:07
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OssiansFolly posted:Can we change the topic back to Magic? Is that one dude at your local still forcing blue-white and always winning?
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May 30, 2014 14:09
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Why don't y'all ever talk about the pokemon card game, i actually played that when I was younger 
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May 30, 2014 14:10
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kizudarake posted:Is that one dude at your local still forcing blue-white and always winning? I haven't drafted at FNM lately. I hated BNG as a draft format so I was waiting for JOU. I am assuming with JOU that he has changed. I'm probably going tonite so I will find out shortly I guess.
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May 30, 2014 14:13
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OssiansFolly posted:Can we change the topic back to Magic? Someone talk about how broken Daring Thief and Felhide Spiritbinder are going to be post rotation to gank all of your opponent's creatures! 
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May 30, 2014 14:23
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forbidden lesbian posted:Why don't y'all ever talk about the pokemon card game, i actually played that when I was younger I just realized that simic was one of my favorite combinations even in the pokemon game; just went though old pokemon cards and found a grass/water deck featuring a foil gyarados, a foil venusaur, and a ton of card draw.
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May 30, 2014 14:30
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forbidden lesbian posted:Why don't y'all ever talk about the pokemon card game, i actually played that when I was younger Pokemon have more health now than ever before. I'm talking Squirtles and Charmanders with like 60 or 70 HP, stuff like that. They give the old Haymaker decks trouble nowadays. Also, Trainer cards that represent people get the "Supporter" subtype which limits you to only playing one Supporter card per turn, so now you can't just play a professor card into most of your deck in one turn. However, they didn't bother placing erratas on old cards, so you can still just shove four Professor Oaks into a deck and draw all the cards.
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May 30, 2014 14:34
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Odin's beard! Make it stop! Magic related: I'm going to an SCG IQ this weekend and the payout is...pretty lovely. Modern $25 entry 1st Place: Qualification for a StarCityGames.com Invitational**, $250 Travel Award, 5 Open Points, and Limited edition Penguin pin, playmat 2nd Place: 24 Packs of Current Set, 4 Open Points, and Limited Edition Penguin pin, playmat 3rd-4th: 12 Packs of Current Set, 3 Open Points, playmat 5th-8th: 6 Packs of Current Set, 2 Open Points, playmat The T.O. was telling me that all IQs are like this, but that he would scale the prize to be the above at a minimum or 3 packs per player, whichever is greater. Does SCG provide the prize support for these? Does the store net the entry fees? Basically I want to know why the base payout is so terrible (for 2nd-8th, 1st is actually pretty good).
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May 30, 2014 14:38
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Tribute question: if it is paid, the counter counts for evolve, correct? Just like unleash? What about if it isn't paid? Then it causes an etb trigger so no evolve?
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May 30, 2014 14:53
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Molybdenum posted:Tribute question: if it is paid, the counter counts for evolve, correct? Just like unleash? Tribute occurs before ETB effects, so it triggers evolve if paid - the effects that occur when an opponent doesn't pay it are ETB effects themselves that only trigger if the tribute wasn't paid as the creature started to enter the battlefield.
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May 30, 2014 14:58
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Kinda bummed it works that way. I've got a gruul aggro modern deck with 2 flex spots and I'm considering burning-tree shaman, fanatic of xenagos or a sorcery burn spell like pillar of flame/flame slash. It'd be nice if fanatic always counted as a 4/4 for evolve purposes.
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May 30, 2014 15:01
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ScarletBrother posted:
An IQ costs a store $200 to run in a fee to SCG. SCG provides the swag. They also mandate a minimum payout, which is what you posted.
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May 30, 2014 15:06
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Molybdenum posted:Kinda bummed it works that way. Fanatic isn't good enough for modern. Posy a decklist? I helped a friend build a Naya aggro deck for modern it is really fast.
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May 30, 2014 15:08
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jassi007 posted:Fanatic isn't good enough for modern. Posy a decklist? I helped a friend build a Naya aggro deck for modern it is really fast. http://deckbox.org/sets/424790 I played it last summer basically. So this is pre nacatl unban. I considered splashing white for pte/nacatl but I don't think it is worth it. T1: E1 T2: BTE into nacatl and vexing devil, swing 4, opponent at 12 (assuming no fetch/shocks), I have 9 power on the board... Maybe I should put that splash back in.
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May 30, 2014 15:37
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Snacksmaniac posted:An IQ costs a store $200 to run in a fee to SCG. SCG provides the swag. They also mandate a minimum payout, which is what you posted. Additional factors: since SCG prize structure mandates a certain amount of prizing in cash travel awards and SCG swag rather than in the store's own products, stores can't provide prize support as profitably. And when you enter a SCG IQ, basically some portion of your fee is going to the store to give back to you in prizes day-of, and another portion is going to the prize pool of the invitational that you'll be playing in later.
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May 30, 2014 15:42
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So, I just got back from FNM-Gameday. Had a p good time. I don't know why Wizards was trying to run it on Memorial Day weekend, but that was super dumb since everyone was out of town and we just rolled it into FNM. Our LGS ran it as a special Double Ravnica Event (combined RAV/RTR block) and I ran a 4-color Sphinx's Dredgelation control deck. A couple of lame-rear end grinders from the next town over showed up and got mad because it wasn't Standard, but the owner told them to put up or shut up because it's been on the store's Facebook page all week. I hate when grinders try to bring their dumb netdecks over here to try and steal away our promos. I went 3-1 in rounds against Stone-Seeder Maze's End, Thirsty Lust (Gruul Aggro), Biovisionary Footsteps, and a loss against Boros Aggro (Zzz). I wasn't going to make the Top 3 cut and I really wanted to get in since Top 2 got the promos, but one of the other 3-1s was a friend, so I offered him a couple of HeroClix from the new Deadpool set to drop (he was playing the Maze's End deck and was kinda tired already). I lost to Boros Aggro in the finals, but at least I got a promo. #Hi5 Afterwards, we found out the owner was offering a 10% discount off MSRP on boxes, but you have to take 36 loose packs, though since he doesn't want you reselling the boxes. We aren't assholes like that so, whatever, we got a box of BNG to keep hunting for Phenaxes and Xenagods. If anyone wants a decklist, I can post it. It's a super fun format.
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May 30, 2014 15:44
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AlternateNu posted:I was under the impression that in the last 5 years or so, there was actually a top tier Blue-Eyes and/or a top-tier Dark Magician deck at some point, purely due to the amount of archytypal support those cards get. Vanilla creatures (mostly insects) saw some use as material for Advanced Ritual Art in Demise OTK decks. I believe some Vanilla Tuners also saw use with Rescue Cat but being a Tuner is basically having an effect in and of itself. Genex Controller was a vanilla tuner that was specified as a Tuner by a couple of cards. Mercury Crusader posted:Pokemon have more health now than ever before. I'm talking Squirtles and Charmanders with like 60 or 70 HP, stuff like that. They give the old Haymaker decks trouble nowadays. Also, Trainer cards that represent people get the "Supporter" subtype which limits you to only playing one Supporter card per turn, so now you can't just play a professor card into most of your deck in one turn. However, they didn't bother placing erratas on old cards, so you can still just shove four Professor Oaks into a deck and draw all the cards. Format Rotations in Pokemon make old cards being broken less relevant though. I'll miss the old broken combos of Chansey-Alakazam-Scoop Up and Sneasel-Slowking though  .
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May 30, 2014 15:48
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Toshimo posted:If anyone wants a decklist, I can post it. It's a super fun format. For sure. Last time they offered it on MTGO I got this really silly pool with good fixing/acceleration, DOUBLING SEASON, and a bunch of other stuff that's good on its own but really silly with doubling season, such as Trostani's Summoner and Borborygmos (original).
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May 30, 2014 15:48
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I'm going to tonights fnm for Modern, but if that doesn't pan out what are some good draft archetypes in JBT?
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May 30, 2014 16:07
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Toshimo posted:I went 3-1 in rounds against Stone-Seeder Maze's End This sounds hilarious. Since your friend was playing it, can you get the decklist so I can have a peek?
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May 30, 2014 16:08
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neetengie posted:I'm going to tonights fnm for Modern, but if that doesn't pan out what are some good draft archetypes in JBT? UG Everything else In all seriousness, UG is probably the best, with disruption and beefy creatures (and the three UG uncommons in the set are all very limited playable). WB taxing is good but since you only have one pack's worth of Scholar of Athreos/Gray Merchant, you need to kind of go the constellation route pack 1 with Grim Guardian, Underworld Coinsmith etc. GB dredge is very fun as well but also suffers from all of its best creatures being in the THS pack (Nessian Asp, Pharika's Mender, Nemesis of Mortals). UW heroic flyers is always playable.
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May 30, 2014 16:13
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Saeku posted:Additional factors: since SCG prize structure mandates a certain amount of prizing in cash travel awards and SCG swag rather than in the store's own products, stores can't provide prize support as profitably. And when you enter a SCG IQ, basically some portion of your fee is going to the store to give back to you in prizes day-of, and another portion is going to the prize pool of the invitational that you'll be playing in later. A minimum attendance of 25 sees 625 in fees. Subtract $200 for the kit, $250 for the cash prize and, I don't know, $175-$200 in cost for the pack prizes for 2-8. That puts it pretty close to a break even point. The events are designed to get people in store to spend money on other things and not be a profit center, so all those numbers seem reasonable considering how much the travel award sucks up.
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May 30, 2014 16:15
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It's still not super that a $25 entry fee and a 5th place finish nets you less packs than just buying $25 worth of packs gets you.
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May 30, 2014 16:41
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That does stink. If the numbers support it, organizers should at least throw more packs in and operate it at a break even.
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May 30, 2014 16:45
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Everblight posted:It's still not super that a $25 entry fee and a 5th place finish nets you less packs than just buying $25 worth of packs gets you. This is what I was getting at when I chatted with the T.O. yesterday. By his math of 3 packs/person it would take 40 people for the 5-8th place people to break even in store credit ($2.50/pack). He said he expects at least 50 people, so that might work out okay. I just want to play some competitive Modern, but drat if I like negative EV.
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May 30, 2014 16:46
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Everblight posted:It's still not super that a $25 entry fee and a 5th place finish nets you less packs than just buying $25 worth of packs gets you. What is $25 worth of packs actually worth though? Let's not pretend that MSRP of packs is equal to the price most stores would sell at which is equal to the price stores pay for packs. I mean, unless you're saying you would actually consider just going up to a store counter and buying $25 worth of packs.
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May 30, 2014 16:46
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Zoness posted:What is $25 worth of packs actually worth though? Let's not pretend that MSRP of packs is equal to the price most stores would sell at which is equal to the price stores pay for packs. Most stores do "3/$10" on packs. So 6 packs would be  and the tournament nets you 6 packs for a 5-8 finish... for a $25 entry fee. You could actually probably get more value just buying packs.If they completely plan to scale up prize payout as attendance goes up, then yes, I'm fine with that being the baseline for prizes. But if it's 6 packs for finishing 5th out of 50+ people, then I'd probably just turn around 360 degrees and moonwalk home.
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May 30, 2014 17:00
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AlternateNu posted:Really? I just built a cheap (CMC-wise) fliers mono-U deck with Hall of Triumph and Master of Waves, and it seems to be able to bomb through damage pretty quickly. The best is a turn 1 Cloudfin Raptor which gets evolved twice on turn 2 by playing Judge's Familiar into a Faerie Impostor. Or just triple 1/x fliers into a turn 3 Hall of Triumph. The curve tops out at 3 x Bident of Thassa, 3 x Master of Waves, and 2 x Hour of Heed. Yeah, that's a completely different take on MonoU than what he posted since you actually are playing (at least some) powerful cards. Again, he's playing Triton Shorethief, lol
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May 30, 2014 17:10
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MiddleEastBeast posted:Yeah, that's a completely different take on MonoU than what he posted since you actually are playing (at least some) powerful cards. Again, he's playing Triton Shorethief, lol I know "Travis Woo lol" but CFB actually built and play tested an Hour of Need deck for the Block PT. It's borderline a real deck in that format and can't play Cloudfin Raptors.
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May 30, 2014 17:17
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rabidsquid posted:I know "Travis Woo lol" but CFB actually built and play tested an Hour of Need deck for the Block PT. It's borderline a real deck in that format and can't play Cloudfin Raptors. Even the block deck they tested is way more powerful than the Standard version he put together, with a near identical game-plan/deck purpose, so I think 'Travis Woo lol' is still applicable, here. edit: add "Travis Woo lol" to MTG thread bingo?
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May 30, 2014 17:46
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Zoness posted:Format Rotations in Pokemon make old cards being broken less relevant though. I forgot they have a rotating format now. And I also miss Sneasel-Slowking. Slowking is an important lesson in carefully wording your rulings text when translating.
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May 30, 2014 17:55
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Toshimo posted:Afterwards, we found out the owner was offering a 10% discount off MSRP on boxes, but you have to take 36 loose packs, though since he doesn't want you reselling the boxes. We aren't assholes like that so, whatever, we got a box of BNG to keep hunting for Phenaxes and Xenagods. Sounds like he's unloading leftovers from mapping a bunch of boxes. You'll have a pretty good idea if you start getting multiples of the same junk rares and very few non-foil money cards. I've been very lucky with the store I found down here. They very clearly open up new boxes for limited events and prizes and don't usually box map since a lot of the players tend to sell to them. Single prices are a bit higher than online, but I'm willing to pay for the convenience on a ones and twos of cards that I need for a deck. Regarding rare-redrafting, can we at least agree that it's shady as hell to have that be the standard and not inform players until after they've already paid for the tournament and not offer a refund if they're not interested in playing? My wife went to a release draft at a place in Pittsburgh and they told her that the only prize support would be a rare redraft at the end. At the release event. For a regular FNM at a store that doesn't get a lot of business, I understand that. But Prereleases and Releases are supposed to be where new players can come in and get some of the new cards.
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May 30, 2014 17:57
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Emerson Cod posted:Regarding rare-redrafting, can we at least agree that it's shady as hell to have that be the standard and not inform players until after they've already paid for the tournament and not offer a refund if they're not interested in playing? My wife went to a release draft at a place in Pittsburgh and they told her that the only prize support would be a rare redraft at the end. At the release event. For a regular FNM at a store that doesn't get a lot of business, I understand that. But Prereleases and Releases are supposed to be where new players can come in and get some of the new cards.
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May 30, 2014 18:08
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Emerson Cod posted:Sounds like he's unloading leftovers from mapping a bunch of boxes. You'll have a pretty good idea if you start getting multiples of the same junk rares and very few non-foil money cards. How can they even enforce that? Just take your cards and go.
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May 30, 2014 18:08
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Emerson Cod posted:Sounds like he's unloading leftovers from mapping a bunch of boxes. You'll have a pretty good idea if you start getting multiples of the same junk rares and very few non-foil money cards. Some stores are shady as hell. Perfect example is my original store, Dogs of War Gaming. He deliberately jacked up his FTV:20 prices so that no one who attends would buy one. Then he sold all of them on ebay (I know his ebay account ID and followed up after asking him his preorder price). I was pretty sure that's not cool, so I let Wizards know. He does things like this a lot because his tournament attendance has all but vanished, so he gets no product anymore. He just doesn't play MTG personally so he never promoted himself, focused all of his energy into NetRunner and Game of Thrones. Nothing against those games, but they aren't going to bring in a constant flow of money the way MTG does, you only need to buy one sealed box once a month and you have everything you ever need. Anecdotal evidence aside, check out his current pricing: The other day I was pricing out Tarmogoyfs on TCGP, and his store name jumped out at me from the first handful that are displayed:  And then from his direct site, i.e. the price that he offers anyone walking into his store in person or ordering directly:  Bad idea in a town with 5 game stores within 5 miles. There's a reason Get Your Fun On is moving up into an abandoned movie theater because it doesn't physically have enough space to contain its tournaments anymore and Dogs of War had to downgrade to a tiny outlet in a strip mall last year because they couldn't pay rent.
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May 30, 2014 18:13
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OssiansFolly posted:How can they even enforce that? Just take your cards and go. In the LGS I drafted at a long time ago, when colored rarity symbols just came out, there started to be a problem with people hoovering up the rares and dropping. So they adopted a policy of "you aren't buying these packs, you are paying for the right to use them; after playing through the tournament you may, at our discretion, be given the cards as a prize." It succeeded in driving off the rare drafters, although it would have caused an icky situation if someone had just put the cards in his pocket and headed for the door.
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May 30, 2014 18:13
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Doing that is technically theft of tournament materials. Even if you officially drop from the tournament they could call the cops and good luck trying to explain the DCI floor rules to them.
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May 30, 2014 18:14
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