Warhammer 40k: It's the end of the game as we know it (and I feel fine)

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Karandras: Apr 27, 2006

Looks like they added Fast back to a whole pile of BA vehicles that lost it with the first FAQ

# ? May 30, 2014 13:44

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# ? May 11, 2024 11:37

Post 9-11 User: Apr 14, 2010

Pacheeco posted:

Just "finished" my friend's 2nd Monolith he gave me free rein to paint. Pretty easy and enjoyable to paint overall; painted with sponges for the first time and pretty much just jumped in by doing a test paint on one of the gun arrays. Made the gold paint from scratch from VMA Aluminum and Daler Rowney FW Burnt Umber Ink. I know it really needs some wash on the gold in the recesses and then a dry brush of a lighter gold on the edges but I'm kinda burned out doing any more painting on it right now; I've been powering through it for the past 3 days that way it would be done by Saturday when my group will be playing. I also got to test the light box I built.

I might adapt the sponge painting for my Blood Angels because I can't stand painting solid red and every time I try to get back to them I end up disappointed.

That's one of the most unique Monolith paint jobs I have ever seen. The gold is flawless, I wondered for a moment if you used craft foil instead of paint. My first impression is, "Las Vegas retirement condo decor," though.

Boon posted:

I'm currently re-doing my Dire Avenger scheme and I ginned up a rough (unfinished) test model. What do you think of this?

Not bad. The model has a large number of base colors, you may find that applying colors from so many pots is tiresome, especially if you wish to add a three part highlight to each.

# ? May 30, 2014 13:47

Cataphract: Sep 10, 2004; Fun Shoe

Panzeh posted:

2nd ed overwatch is the kind of mechanic that makes more sense in the smaller scale that 2nd ed had. Unfortunately when GW increased the model count with 3rd ed, you kinda had to ditch rules like that. I think in theory a "defensive fire" model of overwatch is a good idea, it's just really badly implemented. Flames of War does it a lot better.

Oh sure, it wouldn't port well at all.

But what if it was a hybrid; declaring over watch meant you forwent your shots but could fire at an assaulting unit at full BS. that way over watch is a tactical decision and not something that happens automatically and won't bog down an opponents turn with a delayed shooting phase.

# ? May 30, 2014 13:55

Mango Polo: Aug 4, 2007

Slimnoid posted:

Now it's just +1 to Deny the Witch.

Haha, good.

# ? May 30, 2014 14:57

Slab Squatthrust: Jun 3, 2008; This is mutiny!

Cataphract posted:

Oh sure, it wouldn't port well at all.

But what if it was a hybrid; declaring over watch meant you forwent your shots but could fire at an assaulting unit at full BS. that way over watch is a tactical decision and not something that happens automatically and won't bog down an opponents turn with a delayed shooting phase.

Losing a shitload of models when you declare the charge seems punishing to assaulters. Like, losing them in the shooting phase when you're probably in cover and can then move closer/at a different angle to get close is one thing, you have your turn to react. Losing a shitload when you declare the assault, when you can no longer change your plan or set up a combo charge or deal with the unit taking excessive casualties is bad. People already bitch about losing models to overwatc and failing charges, Orks and Nids would suffer a lot from this.

# ? May 30, 2014 14:59

Naramyth: Jan 22, 2009; Australia cares about cunts. Including this one.

Slimnoid posted:

http://www.blacklibrary.com/faqs-and-errata.html

Space Wolf and BA updated; BA doesn't have anything marked on magenta so I dunno if anything actually got changed, but Runic Weapons did. Now it's just +1 to Deny the Witch.

Psychic Cards got a PDF which just changes Banishment to WC1, to match the book.

Thanks bro.

# ? May 30, 2014 15:02

Indolent Bastard: Oct 26, 2007; I WON THIS AMAZING AVATAR! I'M A WINNER! WOOOOO!

Cataphract posted:

Oh sure, it wouldn't port well at all.

But what if it was a hybrid; declaring over watch meant you forwent your shots but could fire at an assaulting unit at full BS. that way over watch is a tactical decision and not something that happens automatically and won't bog down an opponents turn with a delayed shooting phase.

The Gate posted:

Losing a shitload of models when you declare the charge seems punishing to assaulters. Like, losing them in the shooting phase when you're probably in cover and can then move closer/at a different angle to get close is one thing, you have your turn to react. Losing a shitload when you declare the assault, when you can no longer change your plan or set up a combo charge or deal with the unit taking excessive casualties is bad. People already bitch about losing models to overwatc and failing charges, Orks and Nids would suffer a lot from this.

If only there was some kind of thread that was discussing house rules to implement these kinds of ideas :shrug:

Oh well...

# ? May 30, 2014 15:05

Boon: Jun 21, 2005; by R. Guyovich

Post 9-11 User posted:

Not bad. The model has a large number of base colors, you may find that applying colors from so many pots is tiresome, especially if you wish to add a three part highlight to each.

Yeah, it will be. It's in line with the rest of my models though and I'm only looking at ~20 at most.

I'll finish that model tonight and try and get a better picture in better light.

# ? May 30, 2014 15:05

Lungboy: Aug 23, 2002; NEED SQUAT FORM HELP

The Runic Weapon change is just correcting an error by the looks of it. The original FAQ removed the line about Runic Weapons being force weapons instead of the line about nullifying on a 4+.

# ? May 30, 2014 15:08

Direwolf: Aug 16, 2004; Fwar

The Gate posted:

Losing a shitload of models when you declare the charge seems punishing to assaulters. Like, losing them in the shooting phase when you're probably in cover and can then move closer/at a different angle to get close is one thing, you have your turn to react. Losing a shitload when you declare the assault, when you can no longer change your plan or set up a combo charge or deal with the unit taking excessive casualties is bad. People already bitch about losing models to overwatc and failing charges, Orks and Nids would suffer a lot from this.

It's punishing but I think most of the time less so than the current setup - normally that punishing shooting would just happen during the shooter's shooting phase, so the same damage would already be done.

My issue with it is that it'd primarily be a nerf to assaulting out of an assault vehicle or open topped vehicle, as those units would lose their vehicle's protection - and I don't really see how open topped vehicles need a nerf right now.

# ? May 30, 2014 15:17

HiveCommander: Jun 19, 2012

The Gate posted:

Saw some Movie Marine stats, and you guys were actually lowballing them motherfuckers. They were totally nuts stats, and 100 points each base, IIRC. Sarge, Special and Heavy were more.

WS6 BS6(?) S6 T6 I6(?) A3 W3 Ld10, armor was 3+ with a reroll IIRC. May have also counted as Invul for shots that were AP3 or better, I can't recall. Grenades were something like S8 AP3 large blasts, the Missile Launcher was a 2-shot lascannon while the lascannon was a S10 AP1 infinite line like AbusePuppy said. They were rending in CC, from combat knives, and the Sarge had a chainsword that counted as a power weapon (ignored all saves at the time, so AP2 equivalent now?). Bolters were S6 AP4, Assault 3, Rending I think. The flamer was some sort of horrendus torrent weapon I think, like AP 3-4. I don't recall them having any other particular special abilities but it's entirely possible they did.

The body doubles sort of broke it because buying 10-15 point extra wounds on a T6, 3+ reroll body was dumb. Otherwise it actually wouldn't be too crazy to just shove into 6-7th edition I imagine. Was really only meant to be a silly scenario thing anyway, but I thought it was pretty hilarious.

Yeah and the Bolters were pretty much Assault Cannons as well, from memory.
Movie Marines are great fun for a gently caress-around game when you want to see what it's like to fight off a sizeable WAAAAAAGH! or half a Craftworld :v:

# ? May 30, 2014 15:44

Slimnoid: Sep 6, 2012; Does that mean I don't get the job?

Lungboy posted:

The Runic Weapon change is just correcting an error by the looks of it. The original FAQ removed the line about Runic Weapons being force weapons instead of the line about nullifying on a 4+.

It puts them at being a 4+ to DtW anyway, which is still pretty decent. Possibly a 3+ if their ML is higher (which is rarely going to happen).

# ? May 30, 2014 15:48

Tuxedo Jack: Sep 11, 2001; Hey Ma, who's that band I like? Oh yeah, Hall & Oates.

adamantium|wang posted:

Nope.

Yep.

Nope.

Nope.

Can someone else confirm/deny this Drop Pod strategy? Our local groups rules lawyer is disputing adamantiumwang's interpretation.

# ? May 30, 2014 15:59

SRM: Jul 10, 2009; ~*FeElIn' AweS0mE*~

Is there anything in the rules about immobilized vehicles not being able to score? That's what kept drop pods from scoring before.

# ? May 30, 2014 16:01

TheChirurgeon: Aug 7, 2002; Remember how good you are; Taco Defender

The Gate posted:

It's team-by-team (model) for FoW. Everyone shoots normally, friendly teams close enough can fire even if they're not being directly charged. Means a very spread unit can be hit piecemeal, or several densely packed ones can provide extra fire. Trick is, if the defending unit is "pinned down" (took 5 or more hits that shooting phase; note hits, not wounds/failed saves), then their rate of fire is cut in half. Drops most guns to 1 shot. If the defenders score 5 hits on the enemy infantry then they are driven back, if not then the assault proceeds and combat is fought sort of similarly to 40k. Losing an assault tends to be decisive, and it's one of the only ways to easily shift dug in infantry.

Veteran, concealed, gone to ground FoW infantry is only hit on 6's and has a 3+ save, for example. It's hard to kill, but slow and not usually amazing against armor. Very different dynamic, and there's ways to get them out of cover or pin more easily in the game (recon teams, artillery, air strikes), but assault is the high-risk, high-reward move for sure.

Ah, thanks.

Unrelated note, I'm assembling a Land Raider Crusader that I got from a buddy and those metal bolter sponsons are maybe the worst bits I've ever had to deal with.

# ? May 30, 2014 16:03

SRM: Jul 10, 2009; ~*FeElIn' AweS0mE*~

TheChirurgeon posted:

Unrelated note, I'm assembling a Land Raider Crusader that I got from a buddy and those metal bolter sponsons are maybe the worst bits I've ever had to deal with.

Oh you poor son of a gun. If you want plastic sponsons instead, I've got two of the modern Crusader sprues, sans assault cannons. I wouldn't wish those metal sponsons on anyone.

# ? May 30, 2014 16:06

Dagon: Apr 16, 2003

SRM posted:

Is there anything in the rules about immobilized vehicles not being able to score? That's what kept drop pods from scoring before.

It isn't mentioned in the immobilized damage result, the bit on what is scoring, or the bit on objectives. Or the drop pod entry in C:SM. Seems legit.

# ? May 30, 2014 16:11

PantsOptional: Dec 27, 2012; All I wanna do is make you bounce

Tuxedo Jack posted:

Can someone else confirm/deny this Drop Pod strategy? Our local groups rules lawyer is disputing adamantiumwang's interpretation.

Under the Sudden Death Victory section:

quote:

If at the end of any game turn, one player has no models on the battlefield his opponent automatically wins. Units occupying a building or embarked on a vehicle still count as being on the battlefield, but units that are in Reserve (including Ongoing Reserve) do not.

There's no exception made for all-Reserves armies as there may have been in prior editions, and since by definition they can't come in until the second game turn, Drop Pod army loses. Unless I'm missing something here.

# ? May 30, 2014 16:12

Tuxedo Jack: Sep 11, 2001; Hey Ma, who's that band I like? Oh yeah, Hall & Oates.

PantsOptional posted:

Under the Sudden Death Victory section:

There's no exception made for all-Reserves armies as there may have been in prior editions, and since by definition they can't come in until the second game turn, Drop Pod army loses. Unless I'm missing something here.

Half of the drop pods drop on turn one, so that's not an issue.

# ? May 30, 2014 16:15

jng2058: Jul 17, 2010; We have the tools, we have the talent!

Tuxedo Jack posted:

Can someone else confirm/deny this Drop Pod strategy? Our local groups rules lawyer is disputing adamantiumwang's interpretation.

On what grounds? Everything can score and no one can find a "Drop Pods don't score" rule anywhere.

SRM posted:

Is there anything in the rules about immobilized vehicles not being able to score? That's what kept drop pods from scoring before.

Nah, that's not in there. Only things that keep you from scoring are Swooping or Zooming, Falling Back, being an empty building, or specific rule that says you can't score (ie Death Company).

PantsOptional posted:

There's no exception made for all-Reserves armies as there may have been in prior editions, and since by definition they can't come in until the second game turn, Drop Pod army loses. Unless I'm missing something here.

~~True~~ Well, sort of. Drop Pod Assault lets you land half your Pods on Turn One. So if you get first turn, there's no problem....you'll be there by the end of the turn. So make sure to stash a couple of Devastator Squads in cover way back in your Deployment Zone just in case you don't get first turn. And actually, noticing that it makes the difference between Game Turn and Player Turn, you don't even need to do that much. Drop Pods ahoy!

jng2058 fucked around with this message at 16:25 on May 30, 2014

# ? May 30, 2014 16:16

PantsOptional: Dec 27, 2012; All I wanna do is make you bounce

Tuxedo Jack posted:

Half of the drop pods drop on turn one, so that's not an issue.

Ah, for some reason I misread Hollis' post and thought the first turn had ended and THEN the opponent put them down. Yeah, that's a fair 'n' square victory, albeit a douchey one.

# ? May 30, 2014 16:17

Slimnoid: Sep 6, 2012; Does that mean I don't get the job?

Tuxedo Jack posted:

Half of the drop pods drop on turn one, so that's not an issue.

Also, Deathwing armies can decide to all arrive on turn 1 OR 2, so there's that. Which is a minor boost for DW players.

# ? May 30, 2014 16:18

Tuxedo Jack: Sep 11, 2001; Hey Ma, who's that band I like? Oh yeah, Hall & Oates.

jng2058 posted:

On what grounds? Everything can score and no one can find a "Drop Pods don't score" rule anywhere.

He maintains that immobilized vehicles cannot score.

I'm inclined to agree with you, though.

Slimnoid posted:

Also, Deathwing armies can decide to all arrive on turn 1 OR 2, so there's that. Which is a minor boost for DW players.

If you have no models on the table at the end of any turn, you lose, though.

# ? May 30, 2014 16:22

Slimnoid: Sep 6, 2012; Does that mean I don't get the job?

Tuxedo Jack posted:

If you have no models on the table at the end of any turn, you lose, though.

GAME turn, not PLAYER turn. With Deathwing Assault, you could decide to keep an entire army of Terminators in reserve and deploy them on turn 1, possibly denying the opposing army a whole turn of shooting.

Obviously you'd have to decide to do all this poo poo on turn 1, otherwise yeah you auto-lose.

# ? May 30, 2014 16:27

jng2058: Jul 17, 2010; We have the tools, we have the talent!

Tuxedo Jack posted:

He maintains that immobilized vehicles cannot score.

I'm inclined to agree with you, though.

Well, ask him to show you in the 7th Edition rulebook where it says that immobilized keeps you from scoring. :shrug:

# ? May 30, 2014 16:28

Tuxedo Jack: Sep 11, 2001; Hey Ma, who's that band I like? Oh yeah, Hall & Oates.

Slimnoid posted:

GAME turn, not PLAYER turn. With Deathwing Assault, you could decide to keep an entire army of Terminators in reserve and deploy them on turn 1, possibly denying the opposing army a whole turn of shooting.

Obviously you'd have to decide to do all this poo poo on turn 1, otherwise yeah you auto-lose.

Yeah thats what im saying. Delaying til turn 2 is an auto lose.

# ? May 30, 2014 16:33

jng2058: Jul 17, 2010; We have the tools, we have the talent!

Tuxedo Jack posted:

Yeah thats what im saying. Delaying til turn 2 is an auto lose.

Unless you've seeded the board with a few token units, preferably long range shooters like Thunderfires or Devastators.

# ? May 30, 2014 16:34

Slimnoid: Sep 6, 2012; Does that mean I don't get the job?

jng2058 posted:

Unless you've seeded the board with a few token units, preferably long range shooters like Thunderfires or Devastators.

Man I WISH Dark Angels got Thunderfire Cannons.

Instead we have lovely flyers and overpriced specialist units :smith:

# ? May 30, 2014 16:36

PierreTheMime: Dec 9, 2004; Hero of hormagaunts everywhere!; Buglord

Slimnoid posted:

Man I WISH Dark Angels got Thunderfire Cannons.

Instead we have lovely flyers and overpriced specialist units

Live the dream and field another army on the side. The ML2 Librarian, two MSU Scouts, and 3x Thunderfire Cannons is a pretty solid 500pt add-on, just don't go overboard with it. With three Techmarines, three of the ruins (likely all you need) on your end can be +1 cover. Sniper rifles and camo-cloaks (for 2+ cover save) would be a solid anti-MC unit and the TFCs would shred pretty much all infantry while you wait for your scoring Terminators to drop in and murder everything else.

# ? May 30, 2014 16:46

jng2058: Jul 17, 2010; We have the tools, we have the talent!

Slimnoid posted:

Man I WISH Dark Angels got Thunderfire Cannons.

Instead we have lovely flyers and overpriced specialist units

Devs still work if you don't want to bother with Allies. A ten man Dev squad placed far enough back and in cover should be able to stay alive long enough to get your DW in by turn two, especially if you attach a Rhino. Two Dev squads will almost certainly survive, even if you go second and have to make it through two rounds of fire.

# ? May 30, 2014 17:03

Lovely Joe Stalin: Jun 12, 2007; Our Lovely Wang

Or take a Knight.

I love that drop pods are perfect for their fluff role now.

# ? May 30, 2014 17:09

A 50S RAYGUN: Aug 22, 2011

Can anyone tell me if Tyrant Siege Termies can fire both their Cyclones and an additional ranged weapon?

# ? May 30, 2014 17:13

krushgroove: Oct 23, 2007; Disapproving look

Rapey Joe Stalin posted:

I love that drop pods are perfect for their fluff role now.

This new development/discovery reminds me of the table at Warhammer World that is just a field of wrecked Drop Pods:

# ? May 30, 2014 17:14

Lovely Joe Stalin: Jun 12, 2007; Our Lovely Wang

If I had more time, and didn't have to paint a Knight and a Stormtalon, I would totally go with a pod themed army for my next campaign weekend.

# ? May 30, 2014 17:16

Discospawn: Mar 3, 2007

Imagine if Tyranids still had their spore pods. Having a S6/T4 Monstrous Creature Troop on each objective would've been pretty cool.

# ? May 30, 2014 17:18

Pacheeco: Feb 26, 2004

Post 9-11 User posted:

That's one of the most unique Monolith paint jobs I have ever seen. The gold is flawless, I wondered for a moment if you used craft foil instead of paint. My first impression is, "Las Vegas retirement condo decor," though.

Thanks! The gold is quite garish right now but I think it's because it lacks depth, it does just look like cheap gold paint without any shading. I'll probably end up giving it a wash later today. The entire model was just a test of skills to see if I could actually do sponge painting; the gold was just a happy accident, more or less.

# ? May 30, 2014 17:21

Slimnoid: Sep 6, 2012; Does that mean I don't get the job?

PierreTheMime posted:

Live the dream and field another army on the side. The ML2 Librarian, two MSU Scouts, and 3x Thunderfire Cannons is a pretty solid 500pt add-on, just don't go overboard with it. With three Techmarines, three of the ruins (likely all you need) on your end can be +1 cover. Sniper rifles and camo-cloaks (for 2+ cover save) would be a solid anti-MC unit and the TFCs would shred pretty much all infantry while you wait for your scoring Terminators to drop in and murder everything else.

Considering I'm working on a Sons of Medusa army on the side, you make a compelling argument.

# ? May 30, 2014 17:27

TheChirurgeon: Aug 7, 2002; Remember how good you are; Taco Defender

SRM posted:

Oh you poor son of a gun. If you want plastic sponsons instead, I've got two of the modern Crusader sprues, sans assault cannons. I wouldn't wish those metal sponsons on anyone.

Thanks for the offer but you're too late--they've already been assembled and placed. Now I just need to figure out how to get the loving Multi-melta to stay on.

# ? May 30, 2014 17:30

Tadhg: Aug 5, 2007; AUT MORS
AUT GLORIA

TheChirurgeon posted:

Thanks for the offer but you're too late--they've already been assembled and placed. Now I just need to figure out how to get the loving Multi-melta to stay on.

I picked up that same kit secondhand, and the previous owner had glued a stack of 5 or so dimes underneath the gunner to weigh it down. Works just fine for me.

The sponsons weren't assembled very well, though, and I had to break them apart and redo them myself. :negative:

# ? May 30, 2014 18:01

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# ? May 11, 2024 11:37

Ghost Hand: Aug 10, 2004; Rampant 40k Fanboy

jng2058 posted:

Well, ask him to show you in the 7th Edition rulebook where it says that immobilized keeps you from scoring.

Seconded. This without a doubt works.(Drop pods scoring)

# ? May 30, 2014 18:01

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