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AugmentedVision
Feb 17, 2011

by exmarx
My cat has gone from about 15 to about 10 lbs ever since I switched him to an all-organic raw diet. He doesn't wheeze anymore and is much more agile and sprightly.

Hahaha just kidding all I did was restrict his intake. I still feed him store-bought poo poo, he's just better because he's not fat anymore.

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Alteisen
Jun 4, 2007

by FactsAreUseless

Facepalm Ranger posted:



Somebody is on the mend!

That pic makes me both happy and sad.

Glad he's doing ok though!

Araenna
Dec 27, 2012




Lipstick Apathy

Facepalm Ranger posted:



Somebody is on the mend!

At least he doesn't look like he's in a lot of pain. :catdrugs:

az
Dec 2, 2005

DisMafugga posted:

Can't really hurt to ask. There are some very knowledgeable people on this thread.

Thanks, I'll write up a post after I had some sleep to recharge.

Facepalm Ranger
Jan 17, 2012

SOME PEOPLE FIND HOME APPLIANCES SEXUALLY AROUSING! ZORDS ARE NOT APPLIANCES, DAMMIT!
I just dropped some food off for him. He didn't start eating whilst I was there but, hopefully he'll have ate some by the time I go back in 3 hours. He was playing with his mouse I dropped off though and mewed :unsmith:.

The doctor said his blood was quite low but, not dangerously and currently he's got a nutrition drip which should boost the production of blood cells and make him a bit more like his usual self as at the moment he kind of keeps backing into a corner. We're coming up to 24 hours since the incident so it's looking very likely he's going to recover, if he eats he'll come hoe with me to rest and go back in for further x-rays to check he's healing properly.

I'm so glad he made it through the night, I couldn't sleep until 3am as all I could see when I closed my eyes was my little guy at the bottom from the window mewing for help.

I'm so thankful I checked on him before I tried to leave the house yesterday and that the staff at this Vet are very professional (a big deal in china).

PANTS UPDATE:



Went to visit him for the last time allowed today. He's got to spend another night but! He was biting his favourite toy, tried to bite me and was licking his leg! Basically looking much livelier! Still needs to eat though.:ohdear:

Facepalm Ranger fucked around with this message at 14:45 on May 29, 2014

CompactFanny
Oct 1, 2008

When my cat was hospitalized he didn't want to eat either. As soon as we got home he bolted straight for the food bowl. It's probably just the stress of being somewhere weird that's stopping him from eating. I'm glad he's on the mend! :3:

Angrymog
Jan 30, 2012

Really Madcats

Facepalm Ranger posted:



Went to visit him for the last time allowed today. He's got to spend another night but! He was biting his favourite toy, tried to bite me and was licking his leg! Basically looking much livelier! Still needs to eat though.:ohdear:
So glad your little cat is on the mend - mine have never been seriously hurt, but it's still really awful when it happens.

DisMafugga
Apr 29, 2013

One of mine refuses to eat if I change him to a different bowl. As the previous poster stated, he'll be eating like a champ when he gets to familiar surroundings. Glad to hear he's doing well.

Facepalm Ranger
Jan 17, 2012

SOME PEOPLE FIND HOME APPLIANCES SEXUALLY AROUSING! ZORDS ARE NOT APPLIANCES, DAMMIT!
Thanks guys. My only worry is the doctors said when he eats he can come home. Luckily the vet is only round the corner from where I live so I visited him 4 times today for at least upto an hour each time and will probably visit the same amount again tomorrow. We're over the 24 hour hump and judging from his liveliness of 8pm he's making a good recovery of falling 5 stories.

If he does come home tomorrow/saturday though got to make sure GFs family who are coming for their weekend visit don't disturb him/ be loud and basically just leave him be. This would be easier if it wasn't for the 3 year old little sister being a 3 year old, so I'm thinking of setting him up in our bedroom. Potentially surrounded by my tshirts as he loves to suck/knead on them.

On flip side, if he comes home Saturday instead hopefully it'll be after family leaves then he can have a nice quiet time with us and he can curl up watching kids films with us.

Can't wait to see him tomorrow, the house is too quiet at 12 midnight without the "thumpthumpthump" of paws running around the house chasing the ghosts.

Erwin
Feb 17, 2006

I'm adopting a cat - she's being delivered and installed tonight. She's 14, and apparently very affectionate, so I don't foresee having too many problems as she'll probably just lay around all day and get petted. I had cats growing up, but have never taken a cat into a non-cat home like this. Most sites seem to recommend putting everything - litter box, carrier, and food - into one room so that that room is their home for a while until they explore, but I'd rather have the food in the kitchen and the litter box in the bathroom. Since I live alone, I assume this is okay? There's no one to startle her except me, and I'm easy to hear coming. I'm hoping she'll be okay venturing to the kitchen to eat.

I have a litter box and litter, food dishes, a scratching post, a Da Bird, a Furminator, a scooper, and a cat bed. Anything else I'm missing? The owner is bringing food with her and a cat carrier. Apparently when he takes her to the vet, she pokes her head out and welcomes pets from the strangers in the waiting room, so I think everything will be fine and we'll quickly get to chilling together on the couch for her golden years.

az
Dec 2, 2005

I'm having trouble with my diabetic cat, maybe somebody here has an idea what could be going on.

The list from the op;
- Name:
Nani
- Race:
Red Tabbi
- Age:
8
- Sex:
Male
- How long have you had your cat?
Since I rescued him as a baby after his siblings and mother died, they lived in an abandoned shed behind my apartment complex.
- Is your cat spayed or neutered?
Yes
- What food do you use?
Switched to an all wet food diet to reduce carbs because of the diabetes.
- When was your last vet visit?
Two weeks.
- Is your cat indoors, outdoors, both?
Both
- How many pets in your household?
3 Cats
- How many litter boxes do you have?
2 boxes inside, daily cleaning, they prefer to go outside though.


Nani has been diagnosed with diabetes in mid march after he had shown symptoms of increased urinating and eating and considerable weight loss. His initial blood sugar was around 450. We started him on Caninsulin/Vetsulin within two days after the diagnosis and changed his diet, cutting out any dry food or high carb food. The vet says he is negative for pancreas problems and we have been testing him for Ketones bi weekly with no signs of any.

Anybody familiar with Vetsulin knows that the effect is relatively sharp and recedes to high levels about six hours after injection. We kept increasing his dosage every week when blood tests showed little improvement. He yoyoed back and forth between 500 and 200 and seemed to be very uncomfortable and retreated to secluded, dark places in closets and the bathrooms. One day he had a Somogyi effect which caused him to urinate everywhere, and spiked his blood sugar to 600 before coming down again. After that we decided that we should try an alternate insulin, especially since most feline diabetes websites and forums seem to praise Lantus and dislike Vetsulin.

After talking to the vet, we switched to Lantus, a long lasting insulin that is supposed to balance his levels better. We initially started with a normal starter dosage for his weight. The first two days after the switch his levels held between 200 and 350, but rose to 300 to 450 after. We increased his dosage, another two days of 200-350 before going back up to 300-450, repeat a few more times. By now his dosage has been doubled to 3 units of 100 Lantus bi daily from the initial 1.5, but his blood sugar is still hovering around the 450s, dipping to 330ish late at night. It is very confusing because it seems he keeps getting worse the more we try to adjust. He hasn't had another Somogyi episode since, which is good, but we are completly baffled why he doesn't show any signs of improvement. I have tried to find any clues as to what could be going on in him but there are no indicators for anything that I could find. He eats nothing but low carb high protein wet food, sometimes boiled chicken and boiled fish once a week. He doesn't have any Ketones and no other visible symptons of illness besides diabetes.

It doesn't make sense to me that his condition is completly frozen, and we are very unsure how to proceed by now since everything we do seems to result in either no change or slightly worse levels. He may have some kind of resistance to Lantus but my vet says that is unlikely and I couldn't find any info on the net about similar cases thus far. Tomorrow we should get special diabetic dry food for him to try and see if that does anything.

The injection method I use works well as far as I can tell, he doesn't feel it and is very calm during, subdermal injection behind his shoulder blades, never missed or leaked fluid. I also make sure to get rid of any air bubbles that may form in the needle prior to injection.

Apologies if this is somewhat messy and unfocused but I'm at my wits end with him and worried that he is not going to get better. Oh and my vet basically shrugged and said he didn't know anything about how Lantus worked and we should keep waiting, for several weeks now but that doesn't seem like a workable solution.

If you've ever heard something similar about a diabetic cat I would like to hear about it, thank you.

Here's a picture of Nani and Tom, the blue eyed, chatty Siamese mix that I pulled out of another abandoned shack in the middle of winter a few years ago, having a quality nap.

az fucked around with this message at 18:23 on May 29, 2014

Braki
Aug 9, 2006

Happy birthday!
Sometimes inflammation or infection can cause insulin resistance, although it seems like you've done the blood work to already rule that out. Hyperthyroidism, kidney disease, lymphoma, and obesity have also been associated with insulin resistance. Acromegaly is kind of the zebra that they tout in vet school as a cause of insulin resistance as well.

DisMafugga
Apr 29, 2013

Have they ruled out liver problems? I had a larger cat that had hepatic lipidosis where fat infiltrates the liver and pretty much shuts it down. His sugar was all out of whack because of it.

Name Change
Oct 9, 2005


How do you discourage a cat from licking you too much? I can't exactly cover my hand in bitter apple.

az
Dec 2, 2005

Braki posted:

Sometimes inflammation or infection can cause insulin resistance, although it seems like you've done the blood work to already rule that out. Hyperthyroidism, kidney disease, lymphoma, and obesity have also been associated with insulin resistance. Acromegaly is kind of the zebra that they tout in vet school as a cause of insulin resistance as well.


DisMafugga posted:

Have they ruled out liver problems? I had a larger cat that had hepatic lipidosis where fat infiltrates the liver and pretty much shuts it down. His sugar was all out of whack because of it.

My vet, who I kinda lost faith in, keeps insisting he is fine with regards to those. I haven't changed doctors yet because of the entanglement with the treatment but I may find a new one and get a fresh look. Are there any ways to test for things like acromegaly or hepatic lipidosis at home?

Braki
Aug 9, 2006

Happy birthday!
I assume his appetite is ok? If he's eating normally, I doubt he has hepatic lipidosis. Feline Cushing's could be another rare cause of insulin resistance. However, if he had a Somogyi before, then that means his insulin dose was too high, so obviously his body does respond to insulin at some point. Are they doing blood glucose curves at the vet clinic?

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.




Update! Jet is still alive and Jet is still adorable. It's been over a year since I got him and I swear he's been the best thing to happen to me in years. Jet catte best catte :unsmith:

Crooked Booty
Apr 2, 2009
arrr

az posted:

My vet, who I kinda lost faith in, keeps insisting he is fine with regards to those. I haven't changed doctors yet because of the entanglement with the treatment but I may find a new one and get a fresh look. Are there any ways to test for things like acromegaly or hepatic lipidosis at home?
Can you give us more information about how his blood glucose is being tested? Are you using a glucometer at home, or have all these readings been taken at the vet? When are these numbers from relative to when he has been given insulin?

Your post doesn't have a ton of details on the timeline on all this, but it sounds like he has had a lot of changes to his insulin made in a very short period of time. We typically don't even start insulin for several weeks after switching to a low-carb diet because of the risk of a samogyi. When starting Lantus, the blood glucose can be pretty unpredictable for a while and the only reason to monitor it is to prevent hyPOgylemia. Doses really shouldn't be adjusted more frequently than every two weeks because it's so easy to overcorrect and end up with a samogyi. It can take some time to get a handle on things, but a few weeks of high blood glucose is unlikely to have any long-term consequences; overdosing insulin to the point of samogyi is life-threatening.

If you're considering getting a second opinion, your best bet would be to find someone who is board certified in small animal internal medicine. You can search for someone in your area here.

az
Dec 2, 2005

Braki posted:

I assume his appetite is ok? If he's eating normally, I doubt he has hepatic lipidosis. Feline Cushing's could be another rare cause of insulin resistance. However, if he had a Somogyi before, then that means his insulin dose was too high, so obviously his body does respond to insulin at some point. Are they doing blood glucose curves at the vet clinic?

The vet did the initial test when he was diagnosed and does checks whenever we visit him but I do daily/bidaily checks with a glucometer and do a 24 hour check once a week.


Crooked Booty posted:

Can you give us more information about how his blood glucose is being tested? Are you using a glucometer at home, or have all these readings been taken at the vet? When are these numbers from relative to when he has been given insulin?

Your post doesn't have a ton of details on the timeline on all this, but it sounds like he has had a lot of changes to his insulin made in a very short period of time. We typically don't even start insulin for several weeks after switching to a low-carb diet because of the risk of a samogyi. When starting Lantus, the blood glucose can be pretty unpredictable for a while and the only reason to monitor it is to prevent hyPOgylemia. Doses really shouldn't be adjusted more frequently than every two weeks because it's so easy to overcorrect and end up with a samogyi. It can take some time to get a handle on things, but a few weeks of high blood glucose is unlikely to have any long-term consequences; overdosing insulin to the point of samogyi is life-threatening.

If you're considering getting a second opinion, your best bet would be to find someone who is board certified in small animal internal medicine. You can search for someone in your area here.

I check myself with a glucometer and keep a ledger with all the information, I didn't have it handy when I wrote the post but I can get it if you want to see it. At the moment he is being injected at 8am/pm, his levels are spiking around 400-480 around 2pm, hover around 380-400 at 8pm and fall to the lowest point around 2am, 307 for the last check, before going back up to 350-390ish at 8am.

Timeline wise, he has been diagnosed and started vetsulin around mid march, the dosage increases for both vetsulin and lantus have been directed to us by the vet. We switched to lantus around mid april and have increased the dosages by .5 three times over three weeks as per the vet. The reason we have been uneasy with his development is that both the vet and various diabetes forums indicated to expect a much quicker levelling out of his glucose, making his treading water kind of levels worrying.

Luckily he hasn't gotten anywhere near hyperglycemic or hypoglycemic levels yet, his highest has been 550 once and his lowest 220 a day after adjusting the dosage for the first time. I will try to take him the nearest animal clinic with a specialist for diabetes as soon as I can get an appointment. Thanks for the assurement.

Crooked Booty
Apr 2, 2009
arrr

az posted:

Luckily he hasn't gotten anywhere near hyperglycemic or hypoglycemic levels yet, his highest has been 550 once and his lowest 220 a day after adjusting the dosage for the first time.
I don't think we're using the same definitions of hypo and hyperglycemic. Your cat has been almost constantly hyperglycemic since he was diagnosed, from what you are telling us, which is pretty much the definition of diabetes. A samogyi occurs when an animal becomes seriously hypoglycemic (so that has happened at least once, maybe much more) and then rebounds to hyperglycemic essentially due to being near death.

Is he still drinking/urinating too much? Has he gained any weight back since he was diagnosed? If you read the feline diabetes message board too much, you'll be convinced that the goal in feline diabetes is to achieve extremely tight control of blood glucose within a very narrow range 24 hours a day. In reality, most of those posters are very knowledgeable but borderline psychotic. Your goal right now should be to fix his symptoms (weight loss, peeing a lot), not the number on the glucometer.

Organza Quiz
Nov 7, 2009


I know the answer to, "My cat is doing a thing! Is this unusual?" is pretty much always, "No, it's a cat" but I'm curious about this anyway. I know that when cats are pleased to see people they hold their tails straight up, but when Pepper does it half the time she curls her tail all the way over so that the tip's almost touching her back. Here's a bad photo of what I mean (it looks a bit like it's curling to the side but it was directly over her back):



So is this a weird habit? I've spent a lot of time with a lot of cats and I can't remember ever seeing another cat do that instead of having their tail just go straight up.

Facepalm Ranger
Jan 17, 2012

SOME PEOPLE FIND HOME APPLIANCES SEXUALLY AROUSING! ZORDS ARE NOT APPLIANCES, DAMMIT!
Just visiting little pants right now!

He almost polished off a whole bowl of food and is napping it off right now. We just have to wait and see if he can poop and he should be good to come home after his blood test tomorrow!


This was taken this morning but you can see the energy in his eyes return!


There's also a hell of a lot of cool cats here including a big rear end tom cat with one eye. He looks like a toy that's lost a bead for an eye. There also a cat who seems to come and go from the cage next to pants that looks like an middle age Asian woman if she were a cat, apparently she's not eating.



My little guy is going to be ok!! :unsmith: can't wait to curl up on the couch with him and play vidya like normal.

EDIT: Middle aged Asian woman has left the vets! Will she return? :ohdear:

Facepalm Ranger fucked around with this message at 13:05 on May 30, 2014

Angrymog
Jan 30, 2012

Really Madcats

Is the one-eyed one a patient or resident?

Facepalm Ranger
Jan 17, 2012

SOME PEOPLE FIND HOME APPLIANCES SEXUALLY AROUSING! ZORDS ARE NOT APPLIANCES, DAMMIT!

Angrymog posted:

Is the one-eyed one a patient or resident?

No idea!! Would love to adopt him based on the back and forth he was having with Pants, but since the doctor treating my pants has her dog following her everywhere, I think maybe he's a resident.

duckfarts
Jul 2, 2010

~ shameful ~





Soiled Meat

Organza Quiz posted:

I know the answer to, "My cat is doing a thing! Is this unusual?" is pretty much always, "No, it's a cat" but I'm curious about this anyway. I know that when cats are pleased to see people they hold their tails straight up, but when Pepper does it half the time she curls her tail all the way over so that the tip's almost touching her back. Here's a bad photo of what I mean (it looks a bit like it's curling to the side but it was directly over her back):



So is this a weird habit? I've spent a lot of time with a lot of cats and I can't remember ever seeing another cat do that instead of having their tail just go straight up.

No, it's a cat.

I guess a hypothesis to explain it would be that because tails are generally used as a balancing tool for cats, it could be related to how your cat walks.

az
Dec 2, 2005

Crooked Booty posted:

I don't think we're using the same definitions of hypo and hyperglycemic. Your cat has been almost constantly hyperglycemic since he was diagnosed, from what you are telling us, which is pretty much the definition of diabetes. A samogyi occurs when an animal becomes seriously hypoglycemic (so that has happened at least once, maybe much more) and then rebounds to hyperglycemic essentially due to being near death.

Is he still drinking/urinating too much? Has he gained any weight back since he was diagnosed? If you read the feline diabetes message board too much, you'll be convinced that the goal in feline diabetes is to achieve extremely tight control of blood glucose within a very narrow range 24 hours a day. In reality, most of those posters are very knowledgeable but borderline psychotic. Your goal right now should be to fix his symptoms (weight loss, peeing a lot), not the number on the glucometer.

Oh, yeah you're right I meant to say he hasn't reached the levels of his hyperglycemic episode where he started peeing everywhere(at 600). Since we started treatment he has gained his weight back and stopped the frequent urination, although his appetite is still higher than usual, probably due to the constant state of hyperglycemia. I suppose he is stable now under those criteria. However, is it normal that his glucose levels are staying within the same margins despite the dosage increase?

PS: I got a package of Hill's m/d dry food today. The other two cats love it but he refuses to go near it, silly cat.

Sods Law
Nov 9, 2009
Had our two kittens for nearly a week now, they've been eating and settling in nicely. Today however I've noticed them wrestling and making a lot more noise than usual. The male is flattening his ears against his head and bearing his fangs whilst the female seems to be trying to groom him before being wrestled with. We've separated them and the female has gone to sleep whilst the male has been sitting and purring with my gf. Is this normal behaviour at this age? Is there anything that we should/shouldn't be doing? I've seen them playing before but this is the first time I've been concerned about them hurting one another.

Edit: Having read the above, is the answer "They are cats"?

Sods Law fucked around with this message at 17:13 on May 30, 2014

floofyscorp
Feb 12, 2007

Sods Law posted:

Had our two kittens for nearly a week now, they've been eating and settling in nicely. Today however I've noticed them wrestling and making a lot more noise than usual. The male is flattening his ears against his head and bearing his fangs whilst the female seems to be trying to groom him before being wrestled with. We've separated them and the female has gone to sleep whilst the male has been sitting and purring with my gf. Is this normal behaviour at this age? Is there anything that we should/shouldn't be doing? I've seen them playing before but this is the first time I've been concerned about them hurting one another.

Edit: Having read the above, is the answer "They are cats"?

This is how cats learn the difference between 'playing' and 'hurting'. They wrestle, bite, claw etc and when one squeaks to say 'hey, that hurt!' the other one learns they've gone too far. My two do the aggressive grooming>wrestling thing as well and it's just how they play. If they're making a lot of noise, particularly hissing and growling or yowling, there's blood drawn or one seems to be really bullying the other then I'd separate them but otherwise it sounds like regular kitten behaviour.

Sods Law
Nov 9, 2009

floofyscorp posted:

This is how cats learn the difference between 'playing' and 'hurting'. They wrestle, bite, claw etc and when one squeaks to say 'hey, that hurt!' the other one learns they've gone too far. My two do the aggressive grooming>wrestling thing as well and it's just how they play. If they're making a lot of noise, particularly hissing and growling or yowling, there's blood drawn or one seems to be really bullying the other then I'd separate them but otherwise it sounds like regular kitten behaviour.

Thanks. They're currently asleep on each other so I'm assuming they're fine. I think I'm just being an anxious new kitten parent!

Bonus pic:

Super 3
Dec 31, 2007

Sometimes the powers you get are shit.
- Age 3
- Sex M
- How long have you had your cat? 2.5 yrs
- Is your cat spayed or neutered? Y
- What food do you use? Iams indoor hairball something something
- When was your last vet visit? < 1 month
- Is your cat indoors, outdoors, both? In
- How many pets in your household? His dog brother
- How many litter boxes do you have? 1

My cat is an rear end in a top hat and pees on things. My dirty clothes, a towel left out, a rug, the dog's bed etc. Took him to the vet, everything is good there.

He's a rescue cat that we got by himself then later got him a dog to play with. We fostered a dog a few months after we brought him home and they were buds. So we rescued him his own dog. They play and do dog and cat poo poo together, they're thunder buddies.

He's never had a problem with his litter box. We keep it clean and make sure the area around it stays clean. Cleaning up any 'spillage' with proper stuff. It sits on fake wood with one of those rubber mat things for him to wipe his poo poo covered paws off on before he scampers around. He has always peed in our bathtub. I honestly really cant be mad at him for this as I would rather him pee there than elsewhere. We replace the box every six months or so.

Cleaning:
I have fake wood floors so any spots get cleaned up with an enzyme cleaner then generally back over that spot with steam/vinegar based hippy poo poo.

Example rear end in a top hat cat behavior:
Cat was getting a few treats in the morning as we went out the door for work. Cat turned into an obsessive treat monster and started moving up his yowling for treat time, then started demanding more treats. When he didn't get treats he would throw a tantrum and this manifested by peeing on his dog brothers bed.

We would wash the bed with fancy enzyme stuff, but if he didn't get his way he'd piss on it. We'd buy new beds. As a result his brother no longer has a bed. The bed would generally go in the same place but we would clean the floor beneath with fancy anti-cat piss stuff.

Fast forward to about a month ago we decided to end the treat tyranny and cut him off cold turkey. Bought him a calming collar and decided to ride out the tantrums and see what happens. A few weeks go by of no treats, we buy a new dog bed and one morning he decides to flip his poo poo.

I come around the corner from the kitchen to find him peeing on the dog's new bed, I had a squirt bottle nearby and sprayed him. He yowls and runs off, so I go to get a trash bag and things to dispose of the bed and clean up. In the two minutes I'm gone he has come back to the bed and is now taking a poo poo on it. Cat almost went in the trash bag too, but he's fast.

He's taken a dump on our shoes. He's peed on our shoes. Different shoes in different parts of the house, all in conjunction with him not getting treats.

Current action plan:
I just ordered two feliway diffusers and some of the spray, going to head to the pet store tomorrow and get him a new box. Maybe a thunder shirt too, for my amusement.

Questions about other things to try:
My apartment is small and there really isn't a good place for another litter box, unless I drop that poo poo in the middle of the living room floor. Would very much like to avoid this.

Is it worth trying to get a different brand of litter?

There are cats that hang around outside it's possible they spray, the one or two I know of are fixed but if spraying and cleaning outside helps then why not.

Is normal washing of clothes acceptable to remove cat odor? Should I be soaking them in enzyme stuff as well?

What other things can I try?

Iron Crowned
May 6, 2003

by Hand Knit
I know your post says the last time you went to the vet was less than a month ago, but did you talk to the vet about this issue when you were there? Did they do any tests?

Super 3
Dec 31, 2007

Sometimes the powers you get are shit.

Iron Crowned posted:

I know your post says the last time you went to the vet was less than a month ago, but did you talk to the vet about this issue when you were there? Did they do any tests?

It was the reason for the visit at the time. He's a healthy cat. They suggested multiple litter boxes, and a few of the basic things covered in the OP here.

Dienes
Nov 4, 2009

dee
doot doot dee
doot doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot
doot doot dee
dee doot doot


College Slice

Super 3 posted:

- Age 3
- Sex M
- How long have you had your cat? 2.5 yrs
- Is your cat spayed or neutered? Y
- What food do you use? Iams indoor hairball something something
- When was your last vet visit? < 1 month
- Is your cat indoors, outdoors, both? In
- How many pets in your household? His dog brother
- How many litter boxes do you have? 1

My cat is an rear end in a top hat and pees on things. My dirty clothes, a towel left out, a rug, the dog's bed etc. Took him to the vet, everything is good there.

He's a rescue cat that we got by himself then later got him a dog to play with. We fostered a dog a few months after we brought him home and they were buds. So we rescued him his own dog. They play and do dog and cat poo poo together, they're thunder buddies.

He's never had a problem with his litter box. We keep it clean and make sure the area around it stays clean. Cleaning up any 'spillage' with proper stuff. It sits on fake wood with one of those rubber mat things for him to wipe his poo poo covered paws off on before he scampers around. He has always peed in our bathtub. I honestly really cant be mad at him for this as I would rather him pee there than elsewhere. We replace the box every six months or so.

Cleaning:
I have fake wood floors so any spots get cleaned up with an enzyme cleaner then generally back over that spot with steam/vinegar based hippy poo poo.

Example rear end in a top hat cat behavior:
Cat was getting a few treats in the morning as we went out the door for work. Cat turned into an obsessive treat monster and started moving up his yowling for treat time, then started demanding more treats. When he didn't get treats he would throw a tantrum and this manifested by peeing on his dog brothers bed.

We would wash the bed with fancy enzyme stuff, but if he didn't get his way he'd piss on it. We'd buy new beds. As a result his brother no longer has a bed. The bed would generally go in the same place but we would clean the floor beneath with fancy anti-cat piss stuff.

Fast forward to about a month ago we decided to end the treat tyranny and cut him off cold turkey. Bought him a calming collar and decided to ride out the tantrums and see what happens. A few weeks go by of no treats, we buy a new dog bed and one morning he decides to flip his poo poo.

I come around the corner from the kitchen to find him peeing on the dog's new bed, I had a squirt bottle nearby and sprayed him. He yowls and runs off, so I go to get a trash bag and things to dispose of the bed and clean up. In the two minutes I'm gone he has come back to the bed and is now taking a poo poo on it. Cat almost went in the trash bag too, but he's fast.

He's taken a dump on our shoes. He's peed on our shoes. Different shoes in different parts of the house, all in conjunction with him not getting treats.

Current action plan:
I just ordered two feliway diffusers and some of the spray, going to head to the pet store tomorrow and get him a new box. Maybe a thunder shirt too, for my amusement.

Questions about other things to try:
My apartment is small and there really isn't a good place for another litter box, unless I drop that poo poo in the middle of the living room floor. Would very much like to avoid this.

Is it worth trying to get a different brand of litter?

There are cats that hang around outside it's possible they spray, the one or two I know of are fixed but if spraying and cleaning outside helps then why not.

Is normal washing of clothes acceptable to remove cat odor? Should I be soaking them in enzyme stuff as well?

What other things can I try?

Your cat is not throwing tantrums and pissing on things out of spite. That's not how cats work.

He's peeing on things that smell strongly--dirty clothes--and on novel things in his territory that don't smell like anything familiar---the new dog bed.

Another vet visit may be in order since the behavior is escalating. A different littler and/more moving the boxes to a different location and/or adding a box may help, if there is something about the location or texture that is contributing to the issue.

Super 3
Dec 31, 2007

Sometimes the powers you get are shit.

Dienes posted:

Your cat is not throwing tantrums and pissing on things out of spite. That's not how cats work.
He's peeing on things that smell strongly--dirty clothes--and on novel things in his territory that don't smell like anything familiar---the new dog bed.

The cat will or did regularly yowl until he received treats, on occasions we did not give him treats he would piss/poo poo on something pretty much immediately. If that's not a tantrum then at the least he's stressing himself out to the point that he feels the need to mark something. What stumps me is taking a dump on the item which I didn't think cats would do.

Previously he's left beds alone, even slept on them then decided to pee on them. So it smelled like home, and he'd slept there multiple times.

I'll probably add taking him back to the vet for things to do and try to figure out where another box can go. The problem is I'd probably need an extra 3 to cover the places he's done it.

Crooked Booty
Apr 2, 2009
arrr

Super 3 posted:

The cat will or did regularly yowl until he received treats, on occasions we did not give him treats he would piss/poo poo on something pretty much immediately. If that's not a tantrum then at the least he's stressing himself out to the point that he feels the need to mark something. What stumps me is taking a dump on the item which I didn't think cats would do.

Previously he's left beds alone, even slept on them then decided to pee on them. So it smelled like home, and he'd slept there multiple times.

I'll probably add taking him back to the vet for things to do and try to figure out where another box can go. The problem is I'd probably need an extra 3 to cover the places he's done it.
Is your cat spraying on vertical surfaces or squatting to pee on horizontal surfaces? It sounds like the latter, and you need to get the whole tantrum/territorial poo poo out of your head. Spraying/marking and peeing are two different things. Where is the current litter box located? When you say you replace it every 6 months, do you mean the plastic box or the litter inside? Tell us your litter box routine. What does your cat eat? If it's dry food, I would switch to canned.

Super 3
Dec 31, 2007

Sometimes the powers you get are shit.

Crooked Booty posted:

Is your cat spraying on vertical surfaces or squatting to pee on horizontal surfaces? It sounds like the latter, and you need to get the whole tantrum/territorial poo poo out of your head. Spraying/marking and peeing are two different things. Where is the current litter box located? When you say you replace it every 6 months, do you mean the plastic box or the litter inside? Tell us your litter box routine. What does your cat eat? If it's dry food, I would switch to canned.

Squatting. Litter box is upstairs in the guest room same room as his food. Replace the actual box every 6 months. Litter is scooped daily or every other day. The litter is cycled every other week if not weekly. He's eating dry food, what is the correlation between dry and wet?

In light of the comments im going to look at this as a peeing issue and not spraying and come at this from the angle of something is undesirable with his litter box situation.

Super 3 fucked around with this message at 23:22 on May 30, 2014

Deteriorata
Feb 6, 2005

Super 3 posted:

Squatting. Litter box is upstairs in the guest room same room as his food. Replace the actual box every 6 months. Litter is scooped daily or every other day. The litter is cycled every other week if not weekly. He's eating dry food, what is the correlation between dry and wet?

I've had cats do this sort of thing when they were distressed about something and knew that pissing or pooping on stuff would get my attention in a hurry. Calling it 'spite' is a bit much, but you're not wrong in thinking it might be a message. If it's not something medical, it's probably psychological.

Unfortunately, there is no way to know exactly what the problem is so you'll have to do some clever guessing. Rather than getting mad at the cat (easier said than done, I know), try to figure out what's distressing him, through a process of elimination.

The key is not to let it get into a battle and think the cat is deliberately misbehaving just to make you mad. Systematically eliminate possibilities until you finally get to the actual issue that has him so upset.

That's the only advice I can offer. Good luck.

Braki
Aug 9, 2006

Happy birthday!
I remember a behaviourist teaching us last year that peeing on clothes/bedding usually indicates a marking problem vs. inappropriate elimination. Maybe try some methods to control his anxiety regarding food and see if that helps. Maybe set a timer, and the beep means he gets a treat, or get one of those timed bowls and have his treats inside. Maybe make him earn his treats - since he sounds really food motivated, you could clicker train him and make him do tricks for treats.

Engineer Lenk
Aug 28, 2003

Mnogo losho e!
What kind of litter are you using? Have you tried Cat Attract?

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in_cahoots
Sep 12, 2011

Super 3 posted:

Squatting. Litter box is upstairs in the guest room same room as his food. Replace the actual box every 6 months. Litter is scooped daily or every other day. The litter is cycled every other week if not weekly. He's eating dry food, what is the correlation between dry and wet?

In light of the comments im going to look at this as a peeing issue and not spraying and come at this from the angle of something is undesirable with his litter box situation.

Can you move the box/ food to another room? Maybe he doesn't like smelling pee when he eats.

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