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Icy Penguigo posted:I don't get why people think this is a problem. The peripheral isn't necessary to play the game at all and is focused at an extremely niche group of players who desperately wanted it. They're not going to force this down people's throats and if you want to play smash with the controllers you already own, you absolutely can. I don't think this is going to cause any "fragmentation." Nintendo's biggest issue right now is the general public being confused about it. Specifically, they are confused about it and the Wii because Nintendo has done a piss-poor job of differentiating the two in a way that is immediately noticeable. Throwing in a peripheral that allows the ability to use a controller from a third console two generations old that people are likely familiar with is not going to help clear up the confusion with the general public that's killing their bottom line. I was at a Target right before Christmas playing a demo PS4 while my girlfriend finished some shopping, and a guy came up to me and asked me if the XBOX 360 controller would work on his son's XBOX One. That is the population that is spending the kind of money that keeps a hardware company in the black, and they are easily confused picking between 2 controllers for two very distinct systems. That same population is going to turn their backs in frustration when you try to explain that there's 8 different controllers for 3 different consoles, one of which they don't sell anymore, and the other two they didn't even know there was a difference between. Consumers are ADHD kids in a classroom, and while Microsoft and Sony have done their best to make the kids take their ritalin and keep their eyes on the blackboard, Nintendo has done the marketing equivalent of opening a box of butterflies.
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May 30, 2014 19:00
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Only one thing will clear up this mess: adding N64 controller support through a peripheral that connects to the Gamecube controller peripheral. Then adding support for SNES and finally NES controllers in a similar way- just a cascade of old rear end controllers spilling forth from your Wii U. When it just supports every Nintendo controller ever to exist there will be no confusion! Wanna play that through the Virtual Boy? Buy these 3 adapters and it will happen
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May 30, 2014 19:59
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Monkey Fracas posted:Only one thing will clear up this mess: adding N64 controller support through a peripheral that connects to the Gamecube controller peripheral. Then adding support for SNES and finally NES controllers in a similar way- just a cascade of old rear end controllers spilling forth from your Wii U. Hooked up to the NES controller will be the cup and ball game
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May 30, 2014 20:02
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Fremry posted:Consumers are ADHD kids in a classroom, and while Microsoft and Sony have done their best to make the kids take their ritalin and keep their eyes on the blackboard, Nintendo has done the marketing equivalent of opening a box of butterflies. This is a great metaphor(Not sarcasm, I really like it). Even as an adult who spends a stupid amount of time reading about video games on the internet, the amount of different controllers available on the Wii U is pretty overwhelming. At least many games that I've played so far will accept most of the controller options on hand. DKCTF will use the Gamepad, A controller and nunchuck, the pro controller, or the classic controller plugged into a wiimote(I think?). Giving people an option to play with a Gamecube controller in Smash Bros seems like an ok idea, but it really seems like it'd make more sense to release a Pro Controller that is styled similarly to the old Gamecube controller with all of the Wii U's buttons. Then the controller would work on any game that supports the Pro Controller, instead of presumably just on Smash Bros.
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May 30, 2014 20:03
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Grown men are confused about controllers when the system comes with the only one you need.
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May 30, 2014 20:05
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RBX posted:Grown men are confused about controllers when the system comes with the only one you need. It does, assuming you don't have friends who want to play. Then, you need more than 1 controller.
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May 30, 2014 20:15
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RBX posted:Grown men are confused about controllers when the system comes with the only one you need.  Breaking News Man uses reductio ad absurdum argument on the internet!
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May 30, 2014 20:32
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Fremry posted:Nintendo's biggest issue right now is the general public being confused about it. Specifically, they are confused about it and the Wii because Nintendo has done a piss-poor job of differentiating the two in a way that is immediately noticeable. Throwing in a peripheral that allows the ability to use a controller from a third console two generations old that people are likely familiar with is not going to help clear up the confusion with the general public that's killing their bottom line. I think you can almost guarantee that the Gamecube Controller Hub will not even be carried at most retail stores, and will probably have to be ordered online like the Wii Fit Meter, Circle Pad Pro, and other similar accessories. It won't add to the confusion, because only those who want it will know it exists. The Gamecube controller support is clearly to cater to the hardcore Smash Bros crowd that they don't want to alienate even more. Anybody that gets their video game advice from a stranger at Target is not even going to care about the controller hub. Now I also realized I could be totally wrong, and we'll see Smash Bros bundles with the hub and leftover repainted Gamecube controllers being sold around Christmas. So who knows...
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May 30, 2014 20:33
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Astro7x posted:I think you can almost guarantee that the Gamecube Controller Hub will not even be carried at most retail stores, and will probably have to be ordered online like the Wii Fit Meter, Circle Pad Pro, and other similar accessories. It won't add to the confusion, because only those who want it will know it exists. Amazon.com, un-doubtedly one of the biggest retailers, will surely have it and they already have 113 results when you filter by Wii U controller, and 17 results if you further narrow that by Nintendo brand. And of those 17 results, half of them work with the original Wii, but the other half are only for the Wii U, yet they are all mixed in with each other with no easy way to discern which is which. I mean, it's an issue for people who seek out and read videogame news. It's a frustration bordering on impossible for a parent, grandparent or aunt/uncle who has absolutely no interest in videogames but has a kid/grandkid/niece or nephew who does. Adding ANYTHING to the already murky and poorly defined marketplace of Wii and Wii U hardware is only going to exacerbate the problem that is already killing them. Astro7x posted:Anybody that gets their video game advice from a stranger at Target is not even going to care about the controller hub. These are the majority of consumers, and the less you confuse them the easier it is to take their money. If you frustrate them, they will purchase the product of your competitor that frustrates them less. You seek this information out, you enjoy videogames as an interest, and by the very fact that you are on these forums, you are more technologically literate than the majority of consumers. People like you are not the demographic that Nintendo should be worried about. And I'm also not saying that adding this peripheral is going to slow sales. What it does show, however, is that Nintendo is not addressing the problems they need to be addressing. They need to slim down the options and make the system visibly different from the Wii. I'll make another analogy. It's like Nintendo is on a plane that's falling out of the sky because it has too much weight, and rather than getting rid of cargo, they just picked up an anchor because they might need it later. Edit: Somebody made a reference to the Duke controller for XBOX. Microsoft would absolutely sell a couple thousand, maybe even tens of thousands of adapters to make a Duke controller compatible with XBOX One. But they don't, and the reason they don't is to avoid the issues that Nintendo is having. Microsoft learned that lesson from years of mistakes with Windows products, and they are making a conscious decision to keep their hardware marketplace easy and accessible. Fremry fucked around with this message at 21:12 on May 30, 2014 |
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May 30, 2014 21:06
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Fremry posted:Consumers are ADHD kids in a classroom, and while Microsoft and Sony have done their best to make the kids take their ritalin and keep their eyes on the blackboard, Nintendo has done the marketing equivalent of opening a box of butterflies. Please source your quotes
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May 30, 2014 21:15
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You guys keep finding new reasons why the Wii U is failing that are not why the Wii U is failing (here's a couple of real ones: lovely tech that made multiplatform games impossible in the future, and poor relations with third party partners who already saw no incentive to porting to Wii U prior to launch, pissing off EA just before launch right after having a "historic partnership" with them at E3 2012, not studying their competitors and ignoring the strengths of their online infrastructure, I can probably keep going and maybe by reason #405 we can talk about the Gamecube adapter)
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May 30, 2014 21:17
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Suspicious Dish posted:Please source your quotes Is that someone's quote? Honestly, I made that metaphor myself. Edit: Quest For Glory II posted:You guys keep finding new reasons why the Wii U is failing that are not why the Wii U is failing The Wii had all of these issues, yet was one of their best selling consoles. It sold a poo poo load because "even grandma can play it". Fremry fucked around with this message at 21:26 on May 30, 2014 |
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May 30, 2014 21:23
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Yeah the gamepad would be the philosophical reason why they're failing since it abandons their approach of making games easy for anyone to access and understand by taking games back to conventional controls, but the reality is that doing the Wii twice would not have resulted in striking lightning twice. They were right to switch back to conventional controls, but they couldn't help themselves and had to put a stupid gimmick in, instead of trying to make a console that was powerful enough to stand toe to toe with the other guys. And that gimmick by itself ended up accounting for more than half of their operating losses.
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May 30, 2014 21:33
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Quest For Glory II posted:Yeah the gamepad would be the philosophical reason why they're failing since it abandons their approach of making games easy for anyone to access and understand by taking games back to conventional controls, but the reality is that doing the Wii twice would not have resulted in striking lightning twice. They were right to switch back to conventional controls, but they couldn't help themselves and had to put a stupid gimmick in that ended up sinking the whole thing. Right, and I'm saying the additional peripherals shows that whoever is running the show doesn't get it.
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May 30, 2014 21:35
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Fremry posted:Right, and I'm saying the additional peripherals shows that whoever is running the show doesn't get it. I don't think that having a lot of options will make things more confusing, I think that the default option is just an anchor that's dragging them down to the bottom of that Blue Ocean they raved about. We knew no matter what that Wii U would support Wii controllers because of backwards compatibility, and if you're going to get upset about too many options creating confusion, that wasn't an issue with the original Wii, which had Wii Remotes, Wii Classic Controller, Wii Pro Controller, the Wii Steering Wheel, the Wii Shotgun w/ Link's Crossbow Training, the WiiMotionPlus attachment, the Wii Remote with WiiMotionPlus.... AND it had Gamecube controller ports. The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 22:15 on May 30, 2014 |
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May 30, 2014 22:11
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List of WiiU compatible controllers Gamepad (included with system) Wii Remote + (included with system) Wii Remote(no longer manufactured) Classic Controller (no longer manufactured) Classic Controller Pro(No longer manufactured) Nunchuck Pro Controller Gamecube controller (no longer manufactured, a new run almost certainly limited and promotional only) So of all the controller bloat you are complaining about, only one controller which is completely optional(the pro) and one accessory(the nunchuck) is not included. The rest are no longer made and are just supported for backwards compatibility, with Nintendo nice enough to support them in most games if you already have them. You're just making up excuses to bash Nintendo at this point.
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May 30, 2014 22:12
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So, will this Gamecube controller adapter only allow them to be used in the new Smash Bros, or will it allow you to use it in games that would otherwise require a Pro controller? I'm kinda doubting the latter, because the Gamecube controller is both lacking four buttons, Select, ZL, and the thumbstick buttons, and the face buttons are arranged differently. If Nintendo assumed that their users were idiots, and mapped the buttons based on their label rather than their location, then you'd get the same problem you had in VC games like Super Mario World and Donkey Kong Country, where holding Y to run and B to jump is impossible with the GC's layout. There was a third party adapter that let you plug a Gamecube controller into the Wii remote, to make it think it's a classic controller. This would actually give it much better compatibility with both Wii and Wii U games, although the official adapter is probably better for tournaments, especially since it's not wireless, and you don't need to buy one for each controller.
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May 30, 2014 22:32
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A one-size-fits all solution would run into trouble for games that use the left shoulder button or the -/select button for distinct functions. That might be a bullet they're willing to bite, but I think it's more likely that individual games will need to be specifically programmed for this peripheral.
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May 30, 2014 22:40
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Might be old news but Touch Arcade posted an article today that Candy Crush made more money than all Nintendo games combined last quarter. http://toucharcade.com/2014/05/30/candy-crush-made-more-money-than-nintendo/ Ouch.
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May 30, 2014 23:13
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Fremry posted:words While I agree that it's really nice to have a single controller like the PS3 and XBO, the amount of accessories the Wii U has is not an entry barrier for people looking to get the console. The problem is that people think the Wii U is an accessory!
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May 30, 2014 23:26
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I recently started an extra job at Walmart working in the electronics department(it's weird). We have two crates of WiiU's sitting unopened in the back since may of last year.
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May 31, 2014 00:41
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BGrifter posted:Might be old news but Touch Arcade posted an article today that Candy Crush made more money than all Nintendo games combined last quarter. Yeah, King, the company that no one cares about and that will be lucky to be around in 2 years is doing great!
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May 31, 2014 00:55
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Famous TV Dad posted:Yeah, King, the company that no one cares about and that will be lucky to be around in 2 years is doing great! Yeah, and that no-name flash in the pan company is destroying the proud 100 year old Japenese behemoth in sales. With the way Nintendo is doing right now, how many years do you realistically think they have left? In Iwata's last investor conference, he already spelled out the future for Nintendo. They're done with games after this Wii U debacle, maybe they'll continue with portables or mobile games but they'll put the bulk of their efforts into 'quality of life' products. I'm guessing this will be a bunch of stand alone exercise peripherals hooked up to your TV and your body with Mario or Luigi as the little avatar on the screen saying "GOOD JOB, NOW THREE MORE REPS AND SWITCH TO THE NEXT LEG." It will be monumentally stupid and, much like the first Wii, moms and dads and grandma will eat it up and it'll make a billion dollars. And good for them. At some point they'll release a new handheld powered by generic system-on-a-chip mobile phone parts or partner with Apple or one of those weird Japanese flip-phone manufacturers for the Nintendo Ngage (but with good controls) that will have new DS/3DS style Nintendo first party games. On this device they will endlessly release everything from their vast 30 old library as downloadable apps. Their killer app will be a multi-player Pokémon with in app purchases that will set Japan on fire. Two years later it will come out as an iPhone app in the US. This will keep them going for the next decade. The era of stand alone Nintendo consoles that plugs into your TV is over after the WiiU, anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded.
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May 31, 2014 01:35
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I've heard the term "corporate fanfiction", but is there a term for the negative version of the same thing?
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May 31, 2014 01:42
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lynch_69 posted:Yeah, and that no-name flash in the pan company is destroying the proud 100 year old Japenese behemoth in sales. With the way Nintendo is doing right now, how many years do you realistically think they have left? By that logic every publisher that's not EA or Activision or attached to a hardware manufacturer is also on the way out.
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May 31, 2014 01:43
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Mr.Unique-Name posted:By that logic every publisher that's not EA or Activision or attached to a hardware manufacturer is also on the way out. Well it's mostly got to do with budget and how they manage it. But Candy Crush paywall/p2W poo poo is no fun. Candy Crush is fun if you can dupe your ipad into thinking you have infinite lives and infinite tools because the game can generate unbeatable levels. That way you breeze through the supposed challenges and can knock out a hundred levels within the hour. CC only lasts because it's artificially extending people's time playing it. Yeah right now Nintendo is being run by people who have made a load of bad decisions and a good many of those decisions were made years ago and became company policy and a standard to uphold which further compounded everything. But they're probably not going to go away, the Wii-U may be less than ideal but maybe the next system will not be weighed down by poor decisions.
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May 31, 2014 01:49
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Mr.Unique-Name posted:By that logic every publisher that's not EA or Activision or attached to a hardware manufacturer is also on the way out. EA and Activision are two big budget flops away from being free-to-play mobile-only publishers. If there's one thing that's becoming apparent is that 100million+ Call of Duty type blockbuster games are becoming rarer and rarer these days. EA is already heavily shifting resources into mobile games. Look what they did with Mythic Entertainment. You don't think they're eyeing Maxis and thinking the same thing?
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May 31, 2014 01:51
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Maxis died along with Sim City 4. But mobile gaming is still very limited because you're paying for portability moreso than actual computing power. There's a load of poo poo that would be awful to play on a tablet due to lack of proper controls too. Try playing Dark Souls on a tablet, you can't it needs some sort of standard physical controller which tablets don't have. Apple doesn't want to put out poo poo like that for the iPad.
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May 31, 2014 01:55
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lynch_69 posted:EA and Activision are two big budget flops away from being free-to-play mobile-only publishers. If there's one thing that's becoming apparent is that 100million+ Call of Duty type blockbuster games are becoming rarer and rarer these days. Both of them generated more revenue from gaming than Sony, so I guess the PlayStation is also going to be gone in a few years! Looking only at revenue generated is meaningless, as evidenced by EA and Activision having some issues currently. Nintendo's problems have to do with far more than their revenue, and comparing revenue (when Nintendo's wasn't that high compared to other major players previously) is a pointless endeavor when you take nothing else into account.
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May 31, 2014 01:56
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The Taint Reaper posted:Maxis died along with Sim City 4. Don't get me wrong, mobile gaming is an abysmal experience, at least for me. I own a Google Nexus 5 and a 2013 Nexus 7 tablet, and the only thing I can stand to play on either of them is the crossword app. I occasionally pop into the Android games thread and try out the games everyone is spazzing over and am thoroughly underwhelmed each and every time. I honestly don't get it, it's a lovely experience, I can't control anything, the games are universally terrible tetris clones or watered down racing games (with bad control and in-app purchases) or watered down first person shooters (with bad control and in-app purchases) or crappy endless runner games that get boring in the second playthrough, or lovely repetitive watered down rpgs or mobas (within-app purchases). I excitedly tried the Grand Theft Auto games when they came out. Ran fine on my hardware, it was uncontrollable to the point of frustration. So yeah, these swipe your character/tilt your screen to steer/virtual d-pad games don't work for me. But I grew up with the original NES, then SNES then Genesis. I'm in my thirties now - I fully accept that the world has moved on and I'm the old man on the lawn screaming about the good old days while everyone else is enjoying their incomprehensible phone games. To bring it round to Nintendo - that's where they will eventually have to move to if they want to survive. And yes it will be lovely and nothing like the games we grew up with, but the game buying kids of today don't care. The era of a proprietary box you connect to a TV for gaming is quickly coming to an end. Sony and Microsoft are going to muddle on for as long as they can, but in an era when new and consistently more powerful ARM system-on-a-chip revisions are coming out once every couple of months, they'll hit parity with home consoles sooner rather than later. We're already at the point where they exceed PS2 graphics on mainstream ARM chips. lynch_69 fucked around with this message at 02:38 on May 31, 2014 |
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May 31, 2014 02:35
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lynch_69 posted:Don't get me wrong, mobile gaming is an abysmal experience, at least for me. I own a Google Nexus 5 and a 2013 Nexus 7 tablet, and the only thing I can stand to play on either of them is the crossword app. I occasionally pop into the Android games thread and try out the games everyone is spazzing over and am thoroughly underwhelmed each and every time. I honestly don't get it, it's a lovely experience, I can't control anything, the games are universally terrible tetris clones or watered down racing games (with bad control and in-app purchases) or watered down first person shooters (with bad control and in-app purchases) or crappy endless runner games that get boring in the second playthrough, or lovely repetitive watered down rpgs or mobas (within-app purchases). I excitedly tried the Grand Theft Auto games when they came out. Ran fine on my hardware, it was uncontrollable to the point of frustration. So yeah, these swipe your character/tilt your screen to steer/virtual d-pad games don't work for me. The games from the 1980's and 1990's were delivered in the same way the games of the 1970's were. Except they had more power behind them, the perpetual devices did not really change much. Consoles and PC gaming are not going to go away. Mobile gaming is just a side grade, because regular everyday games like Skyrim and Grand Theft Auto do incredibly well. People who play Mobile games also play games like that. You start to flood the market with P2W stuff with tablet controls and only P2W stuff with tablet controls there's going to be a void but services like Steam would still be around and would still provide a platform to release every other type of game. Because there are still large audiences for all the other genres. Let us not forget that Steam begat Peggle which begat Peggle for the IOS which begat the Peggle 2 for the Xbox One. You're never going to get rid of a physical box that delivers games. The box may become portable or lighter, but the box is still a box. Arcades only died out because the systems became just as powerful as arcade hardware which needed a cabinet because the guts of the machines were very large. Consoles are never going to die out, there will always be a console in some shape or form. People are going to want to use their big televisions for games, and more than likely a portable deivce in the future will come with a video port so you can still play games on a large screen. The portable device will still act as a console. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 02:49 on May 31, 2014 |
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May 31, 2014 02:41
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lynch_69 posted:EA is already heavily shifting resources into mobile games. Look what they did with Mythic Entertainment. You don't think they're eyeing Maxis and thinking the same thing? You think they're going to close Maxis? Because Mythic just got shut down this week.
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May 31, 2014 02:51
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Also lets not forget every single successful IOS game's gameplay mechanics are all from the Atari and DOS era. Lets not split hairs here, Candy Crush is the same genre as Tetris or Columns. Angry Birds is not some brave unique thing it's DOS Gorillas with actual graphics and more enemies. People today are playing the same games people of decades past were playing. It's just the controls suck.
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May 31, 2014 02:54
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I think saying the console is going away is like saying the TV is going away, because people watch stuff on tablets so much. The experiences are just so different. But I do think that future consoles may be a hybrid of portable and dockable to a TV. It'll be pretty difficult to do right, though.
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May 31, 2014 02:57
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lynch_69 posted:Don't get me wrong, mobile gaming is an abysmal experience, at least for me. The worst thing for me is just the complete lack of effort companies will put into their mobile games, only to be rewarded with massive profits because of the large userbase and low standard of quality. Every time I hear that some beloved series from the past, like Rollercoaster Tycoon, is getting a mobile version, it always is absolutely dire. The effort Square Enix puts into their mobile releases is dreadful too, especially compared to their ports on the GBA, DS, and PSP. Why do the PSP versions of FFI, II, and IV get crisp, quality spritework, while the mobile versions of V and VI are a bunch of terrible styles clashing together? Why is Chrono Trigger in such an enormous file, when even the PS1 and DS versions with the animated FMVs didn't come close to that size? The worst offender is Capcom, with Mega Man X and X-over. One is a terrible remake of a classic, with missing animations and crappy upscaled sprites, and the other being one of the worst games the company has ever released, and plagued with microtransactions. gently caress mobile gaming, consoles, PCs, and handhelds 4 lyfe.
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May 31, 2014 03:01
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Eventually the IOS market will burst because the of the excess ammounts of crap put on there. With the bubble gone it will give rise to the Nomad gamers who wander the earth endlessly searching for the next app to play on their once proud machines. But there will be nothing there but rose colored memories and defunct websites ensuring that even their previous games no longer work. Some shall try in vain to recreate the experience of the IOS games on the PC. And thousands shall decend upon the ancient desktop boxes of old and they will argue amongst themselves which is the more ideal version of candy crush that has been created. And thus the console gaming cycle begins anew. Reborn like phoenix rising from the ashes. The Taint Reaper fucked around with this message at 03:08 on May 31, 2014 |
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May 31, 2014 03:05
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Ancedotal - but I think Nintendo sold a lot of Wii U's today, in Australia at least. Target and EB had very good bundle deals with MK8, and I had to ring around to find a store that hadn't sold out.
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May 31, 2014 03:48
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lynch_69 posted:Yeah, and that no-name flash in the pan company is destroying the proud 100 year old Japenese behemoth in sales. With the way Nintendo is doing right now, how many years do you realistically think they have left? that avatar is a perfect representation of this whole post lol, we get it, consoles are on the way out, so are tvs, we've heard this all before again and again and again and will hear it probably for the next decade or so
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May 31, 2014 03:57
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About 10 years ago, a college professor of mine said that watches would be obsolete, because everyone would have a phone to check the time.
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May 31, 2014 04:19
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That loving Sned posted:The worst offender is Capcom, with Mega Man X and X-over. One is a terrible remake of a classic, with missing animations and crappy upscaled sprites, and the other being one of the worst games the company has ever released, and plagued with microtransactions. Don't forget the abysmal iOS port of Ace Attorney with such stellar animations as:  Who needs more than two frames?
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May 31, 2014 04:22
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