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EMH reminded me a lot of 80s Xmen, which was pretty much the best Marvel animated show to me. It did really good adaptions of major stories, but also decent one offs. And like EMH, season 2's back end really drops in quality.
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May 29, 2014 19:19
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twistedmentat posted:EMH reminded me a lot of 80s Xmen, which was pretty much the best Marvel animated show to me. It did really good adaptions of major stories, but also decent one offs. And like EMH, season 2's back end really drops in quality. Besides the enforcement of shorter stories, they apparently shoved their season 3 ideas into the back part of season 2, because I guess they knew they were getting cancelled. I believe it was mentioned here that the Galactus story was meant for season 3, and that all of season 2 was basically supposed to be Secret Invasion type thing.
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May 29, 2014 20:26
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And they had to totally abandon any idea of doing Surtur, which they had been setting up.
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May 29, 2014 22:10
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Jeph Loeb is to Marvel animation what Stuart Snyder is to DC animation.
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May 29, 2014 22:27
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ToastyPotato posted:Besides the enforcement of shorter stories, they apparently shoved their season 3 ideas into the back part of season 2, because I guess they knew they were getting cancelled. I believe it was mentioned here that the Galactus story was meant for season 3, and that all of season 2 was basically supposed to be Secret Invasion type thing. Ah, no wonder season 2 feels really rushed. It starts off really strong, and its Secret Invasion is pretty good, and they clearly took a lot of time to set it up.
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May 30, 2014 00:26
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Fuego Fish posted:Jeph Loeb is to Marvel animation what Stuart Snyder is to DC animation. Is Stuart Snyder responsible for the latest JLA War and Son of Batman poo poo? Man, I hope those both sold poorly.
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May 30, 2014 00:57
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E the Shaggy posted:Is Stuart Snyder responsible for the latest JLA War and Son of Batman poo poo? Man, I hope those both sold poorly. Stuart Snyder is/was the head of Cartoon Network, and people like to poo poo on him for cancelling DC cartoons that nobody watched.
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May 30, 2014 01:33
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HorseRenoir posted:Stuart Snyder is/was the head of Cartoon Network, and people like to poo poo on him for cancelling DC cartoons that nobody watched. People watched Young Justice, they just didn't buy the toys.
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May 30, 2014 01:40
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jscolon2.0 posted:People watched Young Justice, they just didn't buy the toys. People watched Young Justice, but not in numbers big enough to actually make a profit off the show. Greg Weisman himself has said that the reason why the network cares so much about toy sales is because television ratings in general have declined, and ad revenue isn't enough for a show to make its money back anymore. Snyder had legitimate financial reasons to shitcan DC's shows. Loeb is just an idiot.
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May 30, 2014 01:49
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jscolon2.0 posted:People watched Young Justice, they just didn't buy the toys. It was the "wrong demographic" because rather than attracting the appropriate fans of boys aged between 6 and 11, it was more popular amongst teens - and girl teens at that. So rather than go "hey we have a whole new demographic here that we could market to instead" they went "CAN'T SELL THEM ACTION FIGURES, SHUT IT DOWN". The Green lantern problem was that none of the stores would take any of the animated series merchandise because they were full up on GL toys left over from the stinking turd of a movie. Either way, couldn't sell toys, can't stick around. The demographics obsession is a bit odd considering Snyder assumed people would tune in to Cartoon Network to watch live-action shows. Good thing he's no longer in charge, I guess.
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May 30, 2014 01:50
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jscolon2.0 posted:People watched Young Justice, they just didn't buy the toys. HorseRenoir posted:People watched Young Justice, but not in numbers big enough to actually make a profit off the show. Greg Weisman himself has said that the reason why the network cares so much about toy sales is because television ratings in general have declined, and ad revenue isn't enough for a show to make its money back anymore. Didn't someone post a quote here that the numbers were fine, it was just that there were too many girls watching the show and that they felt that girls "don't buy toys"?
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May 30, 2014 01:51
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Fuego Fish posted:It was the "wrong demographic" because rather than attracting the appropriate fans of boys aged between 6 and 11, it was more popular amongst teens - and girl teens at that. So rather than go "hey we have a whole new demographic here that we could market to instead" they went "CAN'T SELL THEM ACTION FIGURES, SHUT IT DOWN". ToastyPotato posted:Didn't someone post a quote here that the numbers were fine, it was just that there were too many girls watching the show and that they felt that girls "don't buy toys"? The problem is that those "no girls allowed" restrictions are coming from the merchandise manufacturers themselves (I especially call bullshit on the idea that a network championing a female-centric show like Steven Universe would directly have problems with girls watching their programs). The same problems would have come up at any network led by any person, because content creators and television networks have no control over whatever sexist logic companies like Mattel or Hasbro use to make business decisions. HorseRenoir fucked around with this message at 01:59 on May 30, 2014 |
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May 30, 2014 01:56
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Well a conglomerate like WB is big enough to make its own toys or whatever they want to sell to girls and boys, but that would require all the different divisions of wb to get along soooooooo...
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May 30, 2014 02:02
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Thing is, Adventure Time exists on the same network and is owned by the same parent company, isn't it? AT is pretty damned popular with girls, probably even more so than YJ was, and it is very successful because it does not specifically choose to pander to one gender or the other. YJ could have done well in merchandising if the people handling the merch for that show did not have their heads shoved up their asses.
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May 30, 2014 02:14
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A show with that kind of serial continuity/soap-opera plotting would have done fine selling Marvel Legends-style deluxe figures to nerds, and babydoll "Hello, Megan!" shirts to girls. Then we'd have nice things like an entire year of Darkseid ending every episode saying "everything is going according to plan."
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May 30, 2014 02:26
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Hell, marketing to those same girls a few years later is basically the only reason the CW even still picks up shows.
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May 30, 2014 03:18
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I feel like you do run into an issue with superhero stuff where it may be hard to quantify what media is leading to what sales. You know when Adventure Time shirts are selling well at Hot Topic it's because someone is watching the show. But who the gently caress knows if that Batman hoodie was rooted in someone getting super into DC through Young Justice or The Dark Knight or Beware the Batman! or Green Lantern the Animated Series or Man of Steel. So, you have this weird issue where there is very successful merchandising of DC in general, but it's being supporting by multiple media sources and none can really claim full credit. So you just end up looking at very direct things like action figures based on the show which is a bit unfair when you take into account how much Adventure Time swag there is.
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May 30, 2014 03:56
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ToastyPotato posted:Thing is, Adventure Time exists on the same network and is owned by the same parent company, isn't it? AT is pretty damned popular with girls, probably even more so than YJ was, and it is very successful because it does not specifically choose to pander to one gender or the other. YJ could have done well in merchandising if the people handling the merch for that show did not have their heads shoved up their asses. Also remember that every division of WB hates each other so involving existing DC comics characters didn't help.
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May 30, 2014 04:07
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Cardboard Box A posted:Adventure time seems to be a different case since as far as I can tell almost all of the merchandise is purchased by teens and adults well out of the ratings demographic they care about. But the main thing is that the merch is selling, they don't care to who, as opposed to Young Justice where the merch wasn't selling in the first place and so they blamed the girls. Adventure Time is a merch juggernaut in all age demographics, they sell more then enough just to the under 12's to keep the show afloat everything else is just gravy. Oceans of gravy. It's also never going to happen again, it was pure luck that it got as far as it did without somebody tweaking it to death. Too many ad executives have spent to much money dividing the demographics up into nice predictable graph-able chunks to let Adventure Time be anything other then a fluke.
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May 30, 2014 04:30
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SirDan3k posted:Adventure Time is a merch juggernaut in all age demographics, they sell more then enough just to the under 12's to keep the show afloat everything else is just gravy. Oceans of gravy. Honestly, what I'd really like to see is WBA just get weirder with what they actually make into shows. Teen Titans Go is a nice start even if I'm not a fan. But honestly, I think Amethyst is a better fit for what Cartoon Network is at the moment than another middling and stiff superhero show. I'm arguing that we totally live in a world where an Amethyst cartoon could actually be more successful than a Batman cartoon, and it's sad that WBA doesn't take advantage of that.
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May 30, 2014 22:35
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Now I just want to see Batman in Gemworld.
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May 30, 2014 23:03
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Honestly I don't get why they don't do a new Superman show. I mean Batman can't stay off the air, but Superman hasn't had a cartoon since STAS (I'm not counting JLU since its an ensemble cast) and that was drat near 20 years ago now. You'd figure they would've wanted to push his brand and get as many Super-products out there whenever MoS came out, but... nothing. Whatever DC's next move is, I just hope they go 2D. I know a lot of people liked GL:TAS, but I'm pretty sure everybody agreed the CG looked pretty amateur hour on that show and Beware the Batman's was not much better. Just stay out of the third dimension, guys.
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May 31, 2014 00:06
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They will continue to make the shows in 3D because its cheaper.
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May 31, 2014 00:24
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IShallRiseAgain posted:They will continue to make the shows in 3D because its cheaper. Actually, the CG animation used in GL/BTB is pretty expensive and was partially responsible for their cancellations. I remember that Giancarlo Volpe even said that Young Justice cost less to animate.
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May 31, 2014 00:30
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HorseRenoir posted:Actually, the CG animation used in GL/BTB is pretty expensive and was partially responsible for their cancellations. I remember that Giancarlo Volpe even said that Young Justice cost less to animate. Having seen Young Justice, that's not surprising.
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May 31, 2014 00:35
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Lurdiak posted:Having seen Young Justice, that's not surprising. The hand to hand combat tended to be really well animated, and YJ certainly did not seem worse animated than just about any "good" superhero cartoon for the most part, unless you mean to say that there has never been a decently animated superhero cartoon, which is different, but valid opinion to have.
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May 31, 2014 01:21
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ToastyPotato posted:unless you mean to say that there has never been a decently animated superhero cartoon, which is different, but valid opinion to have. No, its not. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UJphNPwDfk VV those shows have great animation too, but the quality is a lot more hit or miss. IShallRiseAgain fucked around with this message at 03:45 on May 31, 2014 |
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May 31, 2014 03:10
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Also batman tas and superman tas
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May 31, 2014 03:28
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ToastyPotato posted:The hand to hand combat tended to be really well animated, and YJ certainly did not seem worse animated than just about any "good" superhero cartoon for the most part, unless you mean to say that there has never been a decently animated superhero cartoon, which is different, but valid opinion to have. Some people are just keen to ascribe Young Justice all the world's ills even if that means outright lying. Sheesh, we get it, you didn't like the show. Stop pretending it was somehow worse than Superfriends or the 90s Spider-Man cartoon or Avengers Assemble. It's okay to dislike something without it being literally the Hitler of superhero animation 
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May 31, 2014 03:39
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I wasn't trying to say that I agree that there are no well animated Superhero cartoons, just that if someone felt that a superhero cartoon had never really achieved a level a quality befitting an "above average" grade I could understand their POV even if I didn't agree with it. I personally really liked YJ, including the presentation of the show. I didn't think it was poorly animated at all and it has far from unwatchable writing.
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May 31, 2014 04:32
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Young Justice certainly had a lot of issues but as a dude who can get nitpicky about animation quality, I gotta say I didn't have any problem with its animation. Might not be the best animation quality for a superhero show but it wasn't slacking off either.
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May 31, 2014 04:52
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ToastyPotato posted:I wasn't trying to say that I agree that there are no well animated Superhero cartoons, just that if someone felt that a superhero cartoon had never really achieved a level a quality befitting an "above average" grade I could understand their POV even if I didn't agree with it. I personally really liked YJ, including the presentation of the show. I didn't think it was poorly animated at all and it has far from unwatchable writing. Oh, I wasn't directing all that at you, just speaking in general terms about all these people who have this weird hateboner for Young Justice to the point where they're one step away from going "Half the episodes are literally just white noise layered over still images of roadkill, I don't know how anyone can stand to watch this terrible show."
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May 31, 2014 08:21
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jscolon2.0 posted:A show with that kind of serial continuity/soap-opera plotting would have done fine selling Marvel Legends-style deluxe figures to nerds, and babydoll "Hello, Megan!" shirts to girls. I would absolutely be fine with this.
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May 31, 2014 13:11
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So it's true that Young Justice met its end because "too many girls are watching this show"? poo poo I thought people were exaggerating. How the gently caress could DC NOT find a way to make merchandise for girls. Half of the team was female, I can think of PLENTY of girls that would've bought those action figures (if they were 6-15 instead of 20-30), poo poo I probably would've loved a Green Arrow Corps set or a set with Batman, Nightwing, Robin, and Batgirl. Speaking of Young Justice, what was people's opinions regarding the second season? I just had a friend suggest and I purged it in a day and I must speak my mind on it. But I will wait for others first 
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Jun 10, 2014 04:09
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I was pretty iffy on the first season, but felt they pulled it around, though the season finale was weak. I dropped it hard a few episodes into the second season mostly due to how grimdark it was trying to be (Nightwing hoaxing everyone, making Kaldur be "oh is he a double agent or a double double agent because dead girlfriend???", Superboy giving off suicidal hints from breaking up with Megan, Megan being a loving mind breaker and Blue Beetle not being as awesome as he should be)
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Jun 10, 2014 04:17
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I checked out American Netflix and saw Wolverine and the Xmen was on it. It's pretty good. I thought it was funny that the voice cast is reprising their roles in Marvel Heroes.
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Jun 10, 2014 04:23
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Invasion seemed like it could've gone places but I really think setting it 5 years later was a big mistake. We just have to take at face value that Tula died on a mission, we have to take at face value that Jade and Roy actually got married and had a kid and he never noticed this while looking for Original Roy. We have to take at face value that Conner and M'gann had a falling out. Hell even Artemis and Wally retiring wasn't explained too well. They retired but when, and why? That and taking away the heavy hitters in the Justice League to court for the whole season just seemed dumb plot convenient for me, we could've easily had all this Reach poo poo go down and Black Beetle beating the poo poo out of everyone with Batman and Superman around. However it did allow Dick to do detective work, which was nice. Also Barbara was too good for that teen drama romance poo poo, which I also appreciated One thing I did like about Invasion was that it gave me an excuse to have my friends watch To Serve Man
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Jun 10, 2014 04:43
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^^^: No if you just play the tie in videogame it'll fill in all the gaps. Just play the game, coming Aces High posted:So it's true that Young Justice met its end because "too many girls are watching this show"? poo poo I thought people were exaggerating. How the gently caress could DC NOT find a way to make merchandise for girls. Half of the team was female, I can think of PLENTY of girls that would've bought those action figures (if they were 6-15 instead of 20-30), poo poo I probably would've loved a Green Arrow Corps set or a set with Batman, Nightwing, Robin, and Batgirl. I thought that was "too many girls"/merch was only half the reason and the other half was just its terrible pacing (month long gaps between new episodes I mean) that did it in. And as for opinions, I thought Season 2 was just alright. It needed more action. Like, don't get me wrong, I'm all about intrigue and building character in my superhero cartoons, but drat come on, you can't have one big Blue Beetle vs. Black Beetle throwdown justify weeks' worth of just hearing the heroes and villains weave their webs of plans and everyone deals with their teen drama. Also I know why plot-wise, the big Justice Leaguers were sidelined the whole season but frankly I found it to be a little bit bullshit and just a bit of a thin excuse so that people wouldn't bring up dumb poo poo like "Superman would've resolved half this plot so much faster". Superman can get in fights and lose too. Also this meant less Captain Marvel, which is literally terrible. And it put a stop to any plots of the older and younger heroes interacting (I would've liked if we got a bit more into Superman and Superboy's relationship, or lack thereof. We got a kinda funny scene where Superman reacts awkwardly when Batman calls Superboy his son, but that was it). In short, season 2 seemed like it was building to something... which it was, but it got canceled. I'm of the opinion that if you can plan a show to last 5 seasons with a long game in mind, then that's great, but each season should stand on its own, and I don't think season 2 did that. TwoPair fucked around with this message at 05:50 on Jun 10, 2014 |
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Jun 10, 2014 05:30
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TwoPair posted:And it put a stop to any plots of the older and younger heroes interacting (I would've liked if we got a bit more into Superman and Superboy's relationship, or lack thereof. We got a kinda funny scene where Superman reacts awkwardly when Batman calls Superboy his son, but that was it). In short, season 2 seemed like it was building to something... which it was, but it got canceled. I'm of the opinion that if you can plan a show to last 5 seasons with a long game in mind, then that's great, but each season should stand on its own, and I don't think season 2 did that. This is one of the reasons that while I enjoyed having more characters in the club in season 2 it just didn't feel right, that and some of the character changes were pretty terrifying. M'gann went from being innocent and naive to being just short of a villain and even by the end I don't feel she atoned enough for her sins. That and my friend and I both agree that there was not enough mentor-protege moments in season 2. We now have Nightwing, Batgirl AND a new Robin but because Batman has to go to court that means no bonding moments like Bruce and Dick playing Bball together in season 1. At the end of the day I will say that season 1 of Young Justice was a very good concept, season 2 felt like it could've been a completely different show
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Jun 10, 2014 17:28
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The biggest weakness of YJ is how they'll sacrifice characterization for plot. Meghan going mind wipe happy has no character precedent other than setting up the Aqualad mind wipe stuff.
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Jun 10, 2014 23:21
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